Page 1 of 1

Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:49 am
by Ture Kane
I am looking at the Pietenpol as my first homebuilt. I was wondering what kind of modifications need to be done to the fuselage, if any, for the Verner
Scarlet 5si radial engine? Any tips for beginners? Thanks much.

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:01 am
by Terry Hand
Since no one else has answered, I will try and give you some information. I am still building so I am not a flyer - yet.

What is the weight of your proposed engine? That is your biggest issue, making sure that it weighs a reasonable amount. Second, you will have to fabricate your own engine mount and that will be predicated on your weight and balance calculations.

The late Dick Navratil flew for several years with a Rotec radial on his Pietenpol. You might try and track down the current owner of the aircraft and get some photos of his engine mount.

The last thing - go onto the Pietenpol Facebook page and if you search, you will find a link to articles written by William Wynne on Pietenpol W&B issues. Well worth your time to read those.

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:05 pm
by taildrags
Steve Mather captured 498K in this photo that was taken at the Wings 'n' Wheels event in Warren Ohio in 2015. 5-cylinder 90 HP Lambert radial. Absolutely gorgeous aircraft/engine combination and the cabanes appear to be vertical or nearly so, which would indicate that the weight & balance with this combination worked out well.
498K.JPG

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:09 pm
by taildrags
You can also learn a lot from Jake Schultz's steel-tube fuselage Air Camper with 7-cylinder Rotec radial. Jake has posted many more photos of his setup, so search on his name and you should find more.
16.JPG

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:01 pm
by tom kreiner
Ture Kane,

Since we haven't seen any posts from you, it would be nice to have you follow up with some news about who you are, where you are, etc., so guy nearby your location can invite you to take a look at their Piets...

After reading your post, and researching the Verner 5si, it appears that you may have found the small radial many are seeking. If I weren't too far down one road, I might consider it myself.

Regarding your specific question, regarding mod's to the fuselage, I don't think you'll have any direct mods, that said, you will need to either engage someone to design your engine mount, or design one yourself. If you go to the Verner website, you'll see metric spec's - which I have converted here for the reader - for weight, 158 lbs, torque at 2200 rpm, 199 lb-ft, and all of the dimensions required to mount the engine to the airframe.

When you find the drawing, at this link: http://www.vernermotor.com/5SI.html#!pr ... movies]/4/ you will be able to convert to english units, or use the existing metric units to make the mount. Any member of EAA who is familiar with SolidWorks (free to EAA members), may begin the design and flesh out the dimensions to make a nice mount.

The cg of the engine is roughly 5 5/16 inches from the mounting flange at the rear of the engine. The air cleaner is roughly ten inches from the mounting flange, so you will probably need around 12 to 14 inches from the mounting flange to the firewall - give or take a little to provide access clearance to the carb and controls.

The torque of an O-200 Continental is roughly 194 lb-ft, so at 199 lb-ft, the Verner will swing a 72-50 or 52 prop - just a swag, but probably pretty close.

Love to see your plane when done - please continue to post and keep us all up to date on your project!

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:39 am
by EAB4
The Verner is a lot lighter than the Rotec.
You will have to move the wing back for the W&B.
The only flying Piet I know of with the Verner has the cabane struts straight up and down and has 30 or 40 lbs of lead in the nose.

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:14 pm
by danoliver
1600DBCC-4BC4-4A3F-8A37-C6F27965CEF9.jpeg
a while ago I drew up this comparison of fuselages. Might be of interest.

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:53 pm
by danoliver
I’ve just now noticed a mistake. The measurement from the firewall to to seat back on the steel fuselage should be 6’2-1/2”. Just goes to show that you should question everything you see on the internet!

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:12 pm
by Ture Kane
Thanks everyone for the great information. Tom Kreiner, thanks too for the information; In response to your question about who I am, I'm in Minnesota and I'm 14. I will be getting the tail kit for the Piet this winter; I hope to have my Piet done or close to done when I get my pilots license at 16. I have a few hours logged in a PT-26 and my family is restoring a 1959 Champion 7GC (N5923L) We go to EAA every year all week. I would enjoy checking out any Piet in the area and in the next year or so I would like to get some time logged in one. Thank you again everyone for the detailed information.



Ture Kane.

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:31 pm
by gcardinal
Ture,

Where in Minnesota are you?
There is a lot of Pietenpol activity in the Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area.

Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:10 am
by Ture Kane
I'm about 3 hours West of the Minneapolis area but we are near the Minneapolis area often.

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:56 am
by Ture Kane
taildrags wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:09 pm
You can also learn a lot from Jake Schultz's steel-tube fuselage Air Camper with 7-cylinder Rotec radial. Jake has posted many more photos of his setup, so search on his name and you should find more.16.JPG
Is that the Rotec R2800?

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:04 pm
by Richard Roller
On the weight and balance aspect. When finishing Ken Perkin's piet it turned out to be tail heavy. Not wanting to tilt the wing back we moved the engine 7 inches forward by extending the mount. It's work well for over 18 years now. I also think it looks better.

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:16 pm
by taildrags
Ture: yes, the 7-cylinder Rotec is the R2800. They also have a 9-cylinder model, the R3600.

Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:47 pm
by F.O.R.C.E.
VERY nice
Cant wait to see your bolt kit

Looks like you direct mounted the pickups, but still had to use the bezels?

Re: Fueslage Modifications For Diffrent Engines.

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:28 am
by Terry Hand
F.O.R.C.E.,

??????