Pietenpol-List: Another "New To List" Guy

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Pietenpol-List: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "DaveG601XL"
Jeff said:"many of the A&P friends i have look at the piet after working on corporate jetsand think i'm crazy... " Well are you?? Inquiring minds want to know. : ) I'm sorry but you can't blame me for responding to openings that you could drivea truck through. I just wasn't raised that way. : ) See ya, Bryan--------While I may not always be right, I apologize well.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355310#355310 ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another "New To List" Guy

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Original Posted By: shad bell
We have another introduction of a new guy to the Pietenpol List. I am Dave Gallagherfrom the Cincinnati, Ohio area and I have recently assumed a partiallybuilt project from my father. As I review the paperwork, it appears I am the7th owner and it was N-numbered and certified and may have actually flown backin the early 1970s. The paperwork calls it a Pietenpol, but it looks more GN-1to me. Right now I have a fuselage on solid axle gear, but no wheels, completedtail feathers, spar material and wing ribs. I also have an A-65-8F enginethat was overhauled many years ago, but never run since.The airplane started in Nebraska as N14474 by David Booth in 1973. I actuallysee that number show up in an excel file of Pietenpol aircraft that I found ona Matronics archive search. The FAA registry site says that number was decertifiedin 1976. The airplane, or what was left of it, then went to Alabama, thento Louisiana, then Texas, then back to that same guy in Louisiana and thento my father in Illinois. My father got it by answering an ad placed in theSeptember 1982 Sport Aviation. I think I have bills of sale and names for almostevery previous transaction loosely thrown in a box that I need to sort through.It has two sets of GN-1 plans and one set of Pietenpol plans. All appearto be well used with corners worn or ripped off. If by chance anyone hereknows of the Booth Pietenpol N14474, I would be curious if it did ever fly. My father and brother made all the wing ribs and got spars ready and well as overhauledthe engine in the first few years after the 1982 purchase. My brothereven hand carved a mahogany prop for it back in our college apartment thosemany years back. My brother is quite talented and Mr. Helsper of this list willrecognize him as his former neighbor, Tim Gallagher, from down the road atPoplar Grove. Unfortunately, as the years went by, the project ground to a haltand sat in my fathers garage for almost three decades. Now that the ravagesof time are catching up with my father, he is in no shape to even think aboutbuilding an airplane anymore. I didnt know if my brother ever thought abouttaking it on, but when he recently jumped into a Taylorcraft BC-12 restorationI figured I would give it a go. I asked my father if I could assume the projectand hopefully get it flying. He gave me an offer I could not refuse andI loaded the project on a trailer last weekend for the drive to Ohio. I havea lot of inventory and inspection work to do before I start anything on this airplane.At least for now I can sit in it and make airplane noises! I recentlygot to see the Ohio based Emo and Bell Pietenpols and took a lot of pictures.I look forward to seeing a lot of you at Brodhead this summer.I will be searching archives and lurking a lot on this list while I take in thescope of building a wood and fabric airplane. I have already gleaned a lot ofgood information to get my project started. My experience to date was to builda Zenith 601XL that I currently fly out of Lebanon/Warren County Airport,Ohio.This should be an interesting ride and I will have plenty of questions along theway. Here are a couple of pictures of what I loaded up on the trailer.--------David Gallagher601 XL: flying, 200+ hours nowNext project: Pietenpol/GN-1Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355315#355315Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1023_201.jpghttp://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1020_195.jpghttp://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1010_827.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:16:31 -0700 (PDT)

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Re: Pietenpol-List: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "DaveG601XL"
>From the looks of the metal fittings -- especially the engine mount fittings -- it's a GN-1. I have a combination. The wing ribs, the engine mount fittings, the steerable tail wheel fitting on the rudder are all GN-1. The rest is primarily Pietenpol. I had access to a set of GN-1 plans and started my wing ribs before I got my Pietenpol plans. Reason for the differences.----- Original Message -----

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Pietenpol-List: Another "New To List" Guy

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Original Posted By: Michael Perez

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Pietenpol-List: Re: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings.

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Hi Dave.Welcome to the group. Sounds like you have already done some homework.What you have there definitely looks like a GN-1. The fully sheeted plywood fuselagesides are a dead giveaway. First off, I'd suggest getting the router out,and cutting away most of the plywood for the last two bays (as was already donewith the ones ahead of them) to get rid of some of that weight towards thetail. Alternately, you could remove all of the sheeting rear of the rear cockpit,and replace that plywood with small gussets per the Pietenpol plans - butthat's a lot of yucky work. I think the best feature of your GN-1 is the landinggear, because it has been built so that the rear gear legs align with therear lift strut attach points. By making that change, your plane will look balanced.In my opinion (which you didn't even ask for) the "to the plans" GN-1 landinggear just doesn't look right... and that's because it wasn't even intendedfor the plane. That landing gear was intended for a J-3 Cub, which it suitsperfectly. But the builder of your project has avoided that issue, by buildinggear that is made to fit the plane. I think this is the first GN-1 that I'veseen that has the old Jenny style straight axle gear. Very interesting. Thecabane fittings and the front end of the wing ribs also look very GN-1ish.Nice that you will be able to complete the project that your Dad intended to completeall those years ago. Hopefully he will be able to build vicariously throughyou.Okay, start thinking up your questions for the group.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355343#355343 ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings.

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Pietenpol-List: Re: cool video

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "dgaldrich"
6061 would probably be a little more difficult to shape than some of the otheralloys - especially if in a higher temper (like T5 or T6).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355344#355344 ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cool video

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Re: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings.

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi DouweCongratulations are in order for your getting the commission on this importantproject. Any idea when it will be completed and shown to the public? I get toNYC on a regular basis and would LOVE to see it. The video looks spectacular.If you do miniatures, sign me up too. Maybe Dick and I can get consecutively numberedones. :D I'm serious and I'm pretty sure Dick is too.Dave AldrichRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355367#355367 ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings.

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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Jack"
I used .032" 3003 for the nose cowl. The way I did it, there were small bump-outs to avoid contact with the engine mount bolt heads, louvers under the engine, and also some very small compound bends around the nose piece. 3003 is soft enough for those things. 2024 .025 was used for the combing to take the passenger abuse.Dan HelsperPuryear, TNmail.com>Gents, I had a small incident with my Stinson yesterday when a wind gust blew the passenger door open and against the boot cowl causing a small hole. Idecided to order a full sheet of material so that after fabricating the patch I will have sufficient mterial remaining for the cowlings of my piet. What material are most using for cowlings? 2024, 6061 or 7075? 032 or 040? Thanks!Scott KnowltonBurlington Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________

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Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "DaveG601XL"
Personally I think the bronze bearings are the way to go, but, just in case youwant to research more. Needle bearings would fit in there. I'm not sure theyare rated for use in a wheel, but a bearing supplier could probably tell you.Food for thought.ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355410#355410 ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

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Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

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Original Posted By: "DaveG601XL"
Dan,I can't remember if "my" original wheels are still on his Jr. Ace, or if they werethe ones crunched up on runway 36 at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't havethe heart to ask and bring up the bad memories. Either way, possession is 9/10's,right?--------David Gallagher601 XL: flying, 200+ hours nowNext project: Pietenpol/GN-1Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355415#355415 ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Bill, I will appreciate and listen to anyones opinion, asked for or not. Now whetherI heed that advice or not is another story altogether. As far as the geargoes, that is one of the first things that perplexes me. I am based at apaved runway and the most common places I would fly to are also paved. I haveonly a little tailwheel time in the logbook, but what I do have is in Cubs andChamps and I was honestly thinking about possibly using Cub gear. OK, slap,slap, I probably deserve that. I am used to how their small round and fat tireswork, but I have little idea of how big and thin spoked wheels act. I wasa passenger in my brother's spoked Jr. Ace on pavement only once and it seemedto be more squirrelly and even less tolerant of side loads. In the battle between"looks right" and "handles right," I will err towards the latter, but itis certianly tempting that I can just slap some wheels on my current gear andgo as opposed to re-doing the whole thing. Opinions here are certainly welcome.The second, out of a thousand things, that perplexes me with this project requiresa little closer look at the gear attach fittings. Only the front fittinghas a lift strut attachment point. Are there any Pietenpol/GN-1's out there whereboth lift struts attach down at the same point?? I certainly need some helpwith this one.--------David Gallagher601 XL: flying, 200+ hours nowNext project: Pietenpol/GN-1Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355417#355417 ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:45:26 -0700 (PDT)

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Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Bryan Reed"
Hi Mike,I considered it but now have other plans. You should have great weather.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355430#355430 ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

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Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Bearings

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
David, I have had those same concerns. That is the main reason I was only looking forthe 16" to 18" spokes. I will be landing on concrete or pavement here most ofthe time. On grass there is a lot of slip so loads do not transfer as forcefullyto wheel side load. A warm day here in monsoon season and you can regularlyencounter a lot of X-wind. In the old 172 it was not uncommon to actually bepushed sideways across the runway. I am concerned the taller the wheel the greaterthe chance of the spokes buckling. Is this a concern at all? Has this ever been a problem on the 21" spoke wheels? Of course this is pending the physical limits for crosswind on the Piet. Thatwould also be helpful info from you veteran Piet flyers. Thanks for any input, Bryan--------While I may not always be right, I apologize well.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355434#355434 ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Bearings

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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Gboothe5"
I've got brass bushings in mine. They work great. Just don't fit them too tightand keep them greased well.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355436#355436 ________________________________________________________________________________

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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Bryan,I've got about 260 hours on my 21" wheels. More than half of that time wasoperating off paved runways, with one (forced) landing on a road where I hithard enough to break the axle. No damage to the wheel, other than a fewscratches as the brakeline drug it along the road. I didn't even have totweak the spokes to true it up after the accident.I've flown it a few times in more of a crosswind than I liked, the stiffestbeing a little over 20 knots direct crosswind on a paved runway. Landingwas fine. Taking off was another matter. I kept the tail down to keeptailwheel steering as long as possible, because at slow speeds the rudderwould not be strong enough to keep it from weather-vaning. However, in the3-point attitude as it got light the wind was strong enough to literallypush the tires sideways across the runway, with the tires screeching inprotest. I let it push me near the edge and then got the tail up and justweather-vaned it into the wind and took off across the runway (more like 45=B0to the runway). Again, no problems for the wheels. Wire wheels are justabout the strongest wheel you can make.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia (a paved runway)-----Original Message-----

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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Bryan Reed
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
The GN-1 that crashed last week had V-struts:Not that the struts had anything to do with the accident.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----

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Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Gboothe5"
Hey Dave,Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with the split axle landing gear. WhatI (personally) take issue with is when actual J-3 Cub gear is used on an Aircamper.When the lift struts are not in line with the gear attachment points,it looks wrong, and from an engineering standpoint, it doesn't make sense forthe stresses to not follow a continuous path. Because of this discontinuity, Ibelieve the GN-1 gear has a bunch of added structure on the underside of thebelly. Back in the day, when John Grega drew up the plans for the GN-1, used Cubparts (including landing gear) were fairly plentiful and inexpensive. Todayit is a different story, so most builders end up building the landing gear fromscratch. My point here is that if you have to build the gear from scratch,why not build gear that is actually designed for the aircraft it will be installedon, rather than duplicating landing gear that was designed for a differentairplane.Now, in your case, you have a unique set of landing gear - straight axle, Jenny-style,but not quite the Pietenpol design. I guess it is a cross between thePietenpol and Grega designs. I hadn't noticed that the rear attach brackets don'thave attachment points for the lift struts, but on second glance, I guessthey don't. There have been Air Campers and/or Aircampers built with V struts(like a Cub), but in order to do so, one would need to some analysis to determinethe loading, and compensate for the different load paths. I think it wouldbe far easier to either modify or remake the rear attach brackets to incorporatethe lift strut attach points.As for tall, skinny wheels or fat wheels, that is a matter of personal preference.If you feel more comfortable with fat tires, then use them. However, mostPiets built today will operate (at least part of the time) off of paved strips,and probably about half are built with skinny wheels and half with fat. Bothtypes of wheels work well using the split gear. One thing... if you use fat tires,don't make them too small... Oh there I go again with my opinions.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355470#355470 ________________________________________________________________________________

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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
.and what kind of engine was that? Not that the engine had anything to dowith it.or maybe it did.[shut up, Gary]Gary from Cool

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RE: Pietenpol-List: Another "New To List" Guy

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Original Posted By: Dave and Connie
Dave,Couple comments. Definitely take the advise of someone, think it was Billto cut out any ply aft of the pilot seat not glued to spruce or that lookslike a gusset.Looking at your first picture, I think you have a Cub engine mount. MyGrega has that mount and it makes it harder to get the w/b to come out andalso makes it real hard to safety the oil screen. The Cub mount puts thebottom mounting flange of the A65 only about 7" from the firewall,Pietenpol plans put the flange about 11". The engine mount jig I borrowedfrom D Emch puts the flange about 12.5".Since your plane is not covered or assembled I would consider usingPietenpol's cabane to wing spar attach brackets, which would allow you tomove the wing aft if it would help the w/b.I am flying a Grega and building a Piet. I live at Hales Landing WV(2WV3)which is just across OH from you. It takes me about 2.5 hours to fly thePiet(Grega) to Waynesville, so it should be about 1.5 hours for your 601 ifyou wanted to check out the Grega or Piet project.Skip ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 23:03:42 -0400

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> Pietenpol-List: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Gboothe5"
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted> by: "DaveG601XL" > > We have another introduction of a new guy to the Pietenpol> List. I am Dave Gallagher from the Cincinnati, Ohio> area and I have recently assumed a partially built project> from my father. As I review the paperwork, it appears> I am the 7th owner and it was N-numbered and certified and> may have actually flown back in the early> 1970s. The paperwork calls it a Pietenpol, but> it looks more GN-1 to me. Right now I have a fuselage> on solid axle gear, but no wheels, completed tail feathers,> spar material and wing ribs. I also have an A-65-8F> engine that was overhauled many years ago, but never run> since.> > The airplane started in Nebraska as N14474 by David Booth> in 1973. I actually see that number show up in an> excel file of Pietenpol aircraft that I found on a Matronics> archive search. The FAA registry site says that number> was decertified in 1976. The airplane, or what was> left of it, then went to Alabama, then to Louisiana, then> Texas, then back to that same guy in Louisiana and then to> my father in Illinois. My father got it by answering> an ad placed in the September 1982 Sport Aviation. I> think I have bills of sale and names for almost every> previous transaction loosely thrown in a box that I need to> sort through. It has two sets of GN-1 plans and one> set of Pietenpol plans. All appear to be well used> with corners worn or ripped off. If by chance anyone> here knows of the Booth Pietenpol N14474, I would be curious> if it did ever fly. > > My father and brother made all the wing ribs and got spars> ready and well as overhauled the engine in the first few> years after the 1982 purchase. My brother even hand> carved a mahogany prop for it back in our college apartment> those many years back. My brother is quite talented> and Mr. Helsper of this list will recognize him as his> former neighbor, Tim Gallagher, from down the road at Poplar> Grove. Unfortunately, as the years went by, the> project ground to a halt and sat in my fathers> garage for almost three decades. Now that the ravages> of time are catching up with my father, he is in no shape to> even think about building an airplane anymore. I> didnt know if my brother ever thought about taking> it on, but when he recently jumped into a Taylorcraft BC-12> restoration I figured I would give it a go. I asked my> father if I could assume the project and hopefully get it> flying. He gave me an offer I could not refuse and I> loaded the project on a trailer last weekend!> for the drive to Ohio. I have a lot of> inventory and inspection work to do before I start anything> on this airplane. At least for now I can sit in it and> make airplane noises! I recently got to see the Ohio> based Emo and Bell Pietenpols and took a lot of> pictures. I look forward to seeing a lot of you at> Brodhead this summer.> > I will be searching archives and lurking a lot on this list> while I take in the scope of building a wood and fabric> airplane. I have already gleaned a lot of good> information to get my project started. My experience> to date was to build a Zenith 601XL that I currently fly out> of Lebanon/Warren County Airport, Ohio.> > This should be an interesting ride and I will have plenty> of questions along the way. Here are a couple of> pictures of what I loaded up on the trailer.> > --------> David Gallagher> 601 XL: flying, 200+ hours now> Next project: Pietenpol/GN-1> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355315#355315> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1023_201.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1020_195.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1010_827.jpg> > > > > Email Forum -> FAQ,> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -> List Contribution Web Site -> -Matt> Dralle, List Admin.> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Pietenpol-List: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Wire Wheel BearingsGroup=2C my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted with 1 =BD=94 ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 =BD=94 axle? I would rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not found any with such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings the friction could be a problem.Thanks=2CJackDSM ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another "New To List" Guy

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Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "DaveG601XL"
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted> by: Jim Ash > > If you're going to put sharp bends in the sheet, spend a> few minutes and find out what the minimum bend radius should> be for your chosen material and its thickness. Smaller than> this, you risk cracking the corners. I just found a chart in> AC43-13 online at:> >http://www2.tech.purdue.edu/at/courses/at308/Technical_Links/Ac43-13-1B/CH4_4.pdf> > Interestingly, 5052-H32 at thicknesses .032 and smaller> have zero minimum on this chart. .064 says 1/2-1 times the> thickess of the sheet. Not having a table entry for .040,> I'd err on the conservative and go with the .063 number, and> I'd probably go more conservative and use the 1x radius> instead of the 1/2x, leaving me with a minimum radius of> .040.> > Keep in mind, it's the minimum, so your results don't have> to be accurate to that radius, just larger than the minimum.> If you're bending these corners with a brake, lots of folks> slide a piece of scrap sheet or cardboard on top of the> sheet you care about to establish the radius. A drill bit> laid inside the bend makes for a quick gauge of the radius.> > Jim Ash> > > -----Original Message-----> >From: Don Emch > >Sent: Oct 20, 2011 3:45 PM> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bending 5052 Fuel Tank> >> >> >Michael,> >> >The 5052 is very nice to work with. I made a nose tank> that holds 14.5 gallons. I used exterior flanges of about> 3/8", mainly because it is easier to hold together for> welding. Just two pieces. Kinda like two clam shells. First> welded a nice pretty seam and had leaks. The went back over> it with a big ugly seam and have never had a leak. One very> important consideration is to keep it high enough to clear a> persons feet in the front cockpit. This will also keep it> high enough for head pressure. These are old "pre digital> camera days" pictures.> >> >Don Emch> >NX899DE> >> >> >> >> >Read this topic online here:> >> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355591#355591> >> >> >> >> >Attachments: > >> >http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo2_122.jpg> >http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo1_676.jpg> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Email Forum -> FAQ,> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -> List Contribution Web Site -> -Matt> Dralle, List Admin.> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy

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