Original Posted By: jimvan1(at)juno.com (James T. VanDervort)
I am seeing some discussion on using the two part very expensive epoxy forvarnishing the fuselage and wing ribs/spars. I am sure that the two partepoxy was not invented back in the twenties and thirties.Any comments out there in the real world about why one would do a $150.00vs a $20.00 varithane or even good old spar varnish. Are there anylimitations down the road which you shpould use regarding ceconite or othercovering. I have been doing lots of reading, but am not getting any clearer.Your comments would sure be appreciated!I hope to have the fuselage epoxied/varnished before winter so that it cango in cold storage until spring without worrying about condensation etc.Best regards,-=Ian=-________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Varnish or epoxy?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Spend the extra 130 clams on epoxy, Ian!!!Epoxy varnish has brought the wooden boat business back fromtotal oblivion. The reason being that epoxy varnish makes awooden structure completely immune to moisture. The wood isliterally "encapsulated" and there is no significant waterpropagation through an epoxy coating, unlike polyurethane. The Gougon brothers were wooden yacht makers and developed the "West System" epoxy system for their boats. Their wood/epoxy yachts will last as long as a glass one. They produceda hard cover book on their system you might be able to find atthe library.There is a thriving wooden boat industry today, and you'll have ahard time finding anybody building wooden boats without epoxy.The long term benefits are too great to skimp on price in this case. I would have no problem keeping an epoxy finishedwooden airplane outside insofar as the wooden structure is concerned. Read "Wooden Boat" magazine and you'll get the idea.John Kahn________________________________________________________________________________
Spend the extra 130 clams on epoxy, Ian!!!Epoxy varnish has brought the wooden boat business back fromtotal oblivion. The reason being that epoxy varnish makes awooden structure completely immune to moisture. The wood isliterally "encapsulated" and there is no significant waterpropagation through an epoxy coating, unlike polyurethane. The Gougon brothers were wooden yacht makers and developed the "West System" epoxy system for their boats. Their wood/epoxy yachts will last as long as a glass one. They produceda hard cover book on their system you might be able to find atthe library.There is a thriving wooden boat industry today, and you'll have ahard time finding anybody building wooden boats without epoxy.The long term benefits are too great to skimp on price in this case. I would have no problem keeping an epoxy finishedwooden airplane outside insofar as the wooden structure is concerned. Read "Wooden Boat" magazine and you'll get the idea.John Kahn________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: "Sayre, William G"
Ian- Superflite said whatever you use to seal your wood, make sureyou can rub a rag wet with MEK solvent on it and not disturb the finish. I tried this on polyurethaned wood and isfailed the MEKtest. I opted for coating all my wood-to-fabric glue locationswith a thin brush coat of DuPont 222S sealer. This stuff is about45 $ a gallon but will do the entire airplane. It goes on like waterand seals the varnish/polyurethane against the effects of MEK.Likewise the 222S will seal zinc chromated parts you may havespray painted on like most of us. (or whatever primer used)The 222S can also be easily sprayed on anything. A thin coatis all you want.....any more can loosen the varnish before itdries (and it dries right quick) You can attach fabric after onlyabout 1/2 hour after that. Not real easy to find. Not all auto/paint stores carry it. Call ahead to save some driving around.(go flying with the spare time)Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Ian- Superflite said whatever you use to seal your wood, make sureyou can rub a rag wet with MEK solvent on it and not disturb the finish. I tried this on polyurethaned wood and isfailed the MEKtest. I opted for coating all my wood-to-fabric glue locationswith a thin brush coat of DuPont 222S sealer. This stuff is about45 $ a gallon but will do the entire airplane. It goes on like waterand seals the varnish/polyurethane against the effects of MEK.Likewise the 222S will seal zinc chromated parts you may havespray painted on like most of us. (or whatever primer used)The 222S can also be easily sprayed on anything. A thin coatis all you want.....any more can loosen the varnish before itdries (and it dries right quick) You can attach fabric after onlyabout 1/2 hour after that. Not real easy to find. Not all auto/paint stores carry it. Call ahead to save some driving around.(go flying with the spare time)Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: Gary McArthur
I 'd like to add my 2-bits. I'm currently building a wooden kayakutilizing epoxy in a "stitch and glue" process and John is right in thatepoxy has revitalized the boating industry - however - in reading theinstructions and books as John recommends I've learned that epoxy doesget soft with heat. The reason I mention this is the recent concernsabout glues like Weldwood deteriorating with heat. I forget the figuresbut a plane sitting on the ramp can develop some pretty hightemperatures in closed areas like the wings.Also, I know that in the old Stitts process, it is important to usetheir primer and varnish because they're formulated to chemically bondwith the next layer in the process and other brands made not adhereproperly. One last consideration is weight. I believe varnish would belighter. Once again, if it was good enough for Bernie, it's good enoughfor me! Besides, some of those varnished ships are still flying after50+ years.For those that remember, I think it was 90 when there was a fundiscussion around the campfire at Brodhead about the Speed Queen waterpump being better than the Maytag or Whirlpool, but it took me quite awhile to locate a metal housed Speed Queen. Sometimes I think thescavenger hunt to Model A meets and lumber yards is half the fun ofbuilding these ships.Bill SayreComputer SupportThe NEW Boeing Company________________________________________________________________________________
I 'd like to add my 2-bits. I'm currently building a wooden kayakutilizing epoxy in a "stitch and glue" process and John is right in thatepoxy has revitalized the boating industry - however - in reading theinstructions and books as John recommends I've learned that epoxy doesget soft with heat. The reason I mention this is the recent concernsabout glues like Weldwood deteriorating with heat. I forget the figuresbut a plane sitting on the ramp can develop some pretty hightemperatures in closed areas like the wings.Also, I know that in the old Stitts process, it is important to usetheir primer and varnish because they're formulated to chemically bondwith the next layer in the process and other brands made not adhereproperly. One last consideration is weight. I believe varnish would belighter. Once again, if it was good enough for Bernie, it's good enoughfor me! Besides, some of those varnished ships are still flying after50+ years.For those that remember, I think it was 90 when there was a fundiscussion around the campfire at Brodhead about the Speed Queen waterpump being better than the Maytag or Whirlpool, but it took me quite awhile to locate a metal housed Speed Queen. Sometimes I think thescavenger hunt to Model A meets and lumber yards is half the fun ofbuilding these ships.Bill SayreComputer SupportThe NEW Boeing Company________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: David Schober
Ian Holland wrote:> > I am seeing some discussion on using the two part very expensive epoxy for> varnishing the fuselage and wing ribs/spars. I am sure that the two part> epoxy was not invented back in the twenties and thirties.> > Any comments out there in the real world about why one would do a $150.00> vs a $20.00 varithane or even good old spar varnish. Are there any> limitations down the road which you shpould use regarding ceconite or other> covering. About the only thing wrong with "varnish" is it might not react toowell with your covering system/solvents. The Stits process will causethe varnish to "lift off" over varnish unless a 2-part system is used toseal off the varnish. I am "varnishing my project and using the2-part/sealer where wood would be in contact with the Stits productsalong glue joints (where fabric is glued to frame, ribs etc) and pointswhere fabric contacts the frame/s.Others?....Gary...________________________________________________________________________________
Ian Holland wrote:> > I am seeing some discussion on using the two part very expensive epoxy for> varnishing the fuselage and wing ribs/spars. I am sure that the two part> epoxy was not invented back in the twenties and thirties.> > Any comments out there in the real world about why one would do a $150.00> vs a $20.00 varithane or even good old spar varnish. Are there any> limitations down the road which you shpould use regarding ceconite or other> covering. About the only thing wrong with "varnish" is it might not react toowell with your covering system/solvents. The Stits process will causethe varnish to "lift off" over varnish unless a 2-part system is used toseal off the varnish. I am "varnishing my project and using the2-part/sealer where wood would be in contact with the Stits productsalong glue joints (where fabric is glued to frame, ribs etc) and pointswhere fabric contacts the frame/s.Others?....Gary...________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: jimvan1(at)juno.com (James T. VanDervort)
The only reason for a 2 part epoxy varnish would be if the cover process(finish materials) would lift standard varnish. If you are using dope,spar varnish or verathane would be OK.> I am seeing some discussion on using the two part very expensive epoxyfor> varnishing the fuselage and wing ribs/spars. I am sure that the two par=t> epoxy was not invented back in the twenties and thirties.>> Any comments out there in the real world about why one would do a $150.=00> vs a $20.00 varithane or even good old spar varnish. Are there any> limitations down the road which you shpould use regarding ceconite orother> covering.>> I have been doing lots of reading, but am not getting any clearer.>> Your comments would sure be appreciated!>> I hope to have the fuselage epoxied/varnished before winter so that itcan> go in cold storage until spring without worrying about condensation etc=.>> Best regards,> -Ian->________________________________________________________________________________
The only reason for a 2 part epoxy varnish would be if the cover process(finish materials) would lift standard varnish. If you are using dope,spar varnish or verathane would be OK.> I am seeing some discussion on using the two part very expensive epoxyfor> varnishing the fuselage and wing ribs/spars. I am sure that the two par=t> epoxy was not invented back in the twenties and thirties.>> Any comments out there in the real world about why one would do a $150.=00> vs a $20.00 varithane or even good old spar varnish. Are there any> limitations down the road which you shpould use regarding ceconite orother> covering.>> I have been doing lots of reading, but am not getting any clearer.>> Your comments would sure be appreciated!>> I hope to have the fuselage epoxied/varnished before winter so that itcan> go in cold storage until spring without worrying about condensation etc=.>> Best regards,> -Ian->________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: Stockberger
Mr. Pietenpol doped his wood. He said it was out of the weather, anyhow.JimV.,________________________________________________________________________________
Mr. Pietenpol doped his wood. He said it was out of the weather, anyhow.JimV.,________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By:> Ian Holland
Many thanks for all the responses! I will be looking at the coveringprocess to be used, then making the decision. I have to look ahead andguess that sometime in the career, it may have to be stored outside ratherthan hangered. Such is reality!The epoxy sure sounds like a place for a value added investment.
Many thanks for all the responses! I will be looking at the coveringprocess to be used, then making the decision. I have to look ahead andguess that sometime in the career, it may have to be stored outside ratherthan hangered. Such is reality!The epoxy sure sounds like a place for a value added investment.
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
I have some friends that are getting ready to paint a Horizon. do any ofyou know where they can get info on using latex house paint. They got aprice at OSH from stits or someone for $1,200.Craig________________________________________________________________________________
I have some friends that are getting ready to paint a Horizon. do any ofyou know where they can get info on using latex house paint. They got aprice at OSH from stits or someone for $1,200.Craig________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: Niwlyf(at)aol.com
Craig R. Lawler wrote:> I have some friends that are getting ready to paint a Horizon. do any> of> you know where they can get info on using latex house paint. They got> a> price at OSH from stits or someone for $1,200.>> Craig I did it on my piet. Learned a lot. Would do a few thingsdifferently next time, but I am satisfied (mostly) with my finish.Pick-up the article on alternative paint systems in the kitplanes issueof this month or last. Good article suggesting the use of floor paints.Stevee________________________________________________________________________________
Craig R. Lawler wrote:> I have some friends that are getting ready to paint a Horizon. do any> of> you know where they can get info on using latex house paint. They got> a> price at OSH from stits or someone for $1,200.>> Craig I did it on my piet. Learned a lot. Would do a few thingsdifferently next time, but I am satisfied (mostly) with my finish.Pick-up the article on alternative paint systems in the kitplanes issueof this month or last. Good article suggesting the use of floor paints.Stevee________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: Greg Cardinal
The latest Kitplane of Plane and Pilot had an artical about using noncertified paints. The artical was exclent. I will look it up and send youwhat it was in. It went through stap by step how to do the painting. ________________________________________________________________________________
The latest Kitplane of Plane and Pilot had an artical about using noncertified paints. The artical was exclent. I will look it up and send youwhat it was in. It went through stap by step how to do the painting. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: jimvan1(at)juno.com (James T. VanDervort)
> > I 'd like to add my 2-bits. I'm currently building a wooden kayak> utilizing epoxy in a "stitch and glue" process and John is right in that> epoxy has revitalized the boating industry - however - in reading the> instructions and books as John recommends I've learned that epoxy does> get soft with heat. The reason I mention this is the recent concerns> about glues like Weldwood deteriorating with heat. I forget the figures> but a plane sitting on the ramp can develop some pretty high> temperatures in closed areas like the wings.> > Also, I know that in the old Stitts process, it is important to use> their primer and varnish because they're formulated to chemically bond> with the next layer in the process and other brands made not adhere> properly. One last consideration is weight. I believe varnish would be> lighter. Once again, if it was good enough for Bernie, it's good enough> for me! Besides, some of those varnished ships are still flying after> 50+ years.> Bill Sayre> Computer Support> The NEW Boeing CompanyYou got a point Bill, and I probably would not use West System on anairframe because the Gougon Brothers process relied on fairly heavycoats of resin, partly because they used it as stuctural componentof the hull. However the Polyfibre folks (nee Stits) just happen to have an epoxy varnish that is used with their covering process. The guy at brodhead that I watched running his Model A for the first timetold me he had varnished his airframe with the Polyfibre epoxy varnish.The heat is not a concern as far as a varnish coating is concerned, andI understand that the epoxy glues like FPL 16A are quite a bit more heattolerant than the laminating resin used on composite airplanes so I don'tthink that is too much of a concern (Weldwood is a urea formaldehyde).If I was building a wooden airplane that I knew would always spend its lifeindoors, I would probably just go with marine spar varnish myself. Epoxylets you keep it outside without the rot worries.I wanna build a stitch and glue kayak one of these days.CheersJohn KahnBombardier Inc.________________________________________________________________________________
> > I 'd like to add my 2-bits. I'm currently building a wooden kayak> utilizing epoxy in a "stitch and glue" process and John is right in that> epoxy has revitalized the boating industry - however - in reading the> instructions and books as John recommends I've learned that epoxy does> get soft with heat. The reason I mention this is the recent concerns> about glues like Weldwood deteriorating with heat. I forget the figures> but a plane sitting on the ramp can develop some pretty high> temperatures in closed areas like the wings.> > Also, I know that in the old Stitts process, it is important to use> their primer and varnish because they're formulated to chemically bond> with the next layer in the process and other brands made not adhere> properly. One last consideration is weight. I believe varnish would be> lighter. Once again, if it was good enough for Bernie, it's good enough> for me! Besides, some of those varnished ships are still flying after> 50+ years.> Bill Sayre> Computer Support> The NEW Boeing CompanyYou got a point Bill, and I probably would not use West System on anairframe because the Gougon Brothers process relied on fairly heavycoats of resin, partly because they used it as stuctural componentof the hull. However the Polyfibre folks (nee Stits) just happen to have an epoxy varnish that is used with their covering process. The guy at brodhead that I watched running his Model A for the first timetold me he had varnished his airframe with the Polyfibre epoxy varnish.The heat is not a concern as far as a varnish coating is concerned, andI understand that the epoxy glues like FPL 16A are quite a bit more heattolerant than the laminating resin used on composite airplanes so I don'tthink that is too much of a concern (Weldwood is a urea formaldehyde).If I was building a wooden airplane that I knew would always spend its lifeindoors, I would probably just go with marine spar varnish myself. Epoxylets you keep it outside without the rot worries.I wanna build a stitch and glue kayak one of these days.CheersJohn KahnBombardier Inc.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: Ian Holland
Kahn) writes:>> >> I 'd like to add my 2-bits. I'm currently building a wooden kayak>> utilizing epoxy in a "stitch and glue" process and John is right in >that>> epoxy has revitalized the boating industry - however - in reading >the>> instructions and books as John recommends I've learned that epoxy >does>> get soft with heat. The reason I mention this is the recent >concerns>> about glues like Weldwood deteriorating with heat. I forget the >figures>> but a plane sitting on the ramp can develop some pretty high>> temperatures in closed areas like the wings.>> >> Also, I know that in the old Stitts process, it is important to use>> their primer and varnish because they're formulated to chemically >bond>> with the next layer in the process and other brands made not adhere>> properly. One last consideration is weight. I believe varnish >would be>> lighter. Once again, if it was good enough for Bernie, it's good >enough>> for me! Besides, some of those varnished ships are still flying >after>> 50+ years.>>> Bill Sayre>> Computer Support>> The NEW Boeing Company>>>You got a point Bill, and I probably would not use West System on an>airframe because the Gougon Brothers process relied on fairly heavy>coats of resin, partly because they used it as stuctural component>of the hull. However the Polyfibre folks (nee Stits) just happen to >have an epoxy varnish that is used with their covering process. The >guy at brodhead that I watched running his Model A for the first time>told me he had varnished his airframe with the Polyfibre epoxy >varnish.>>The heat is not a concern as far as a varnish coating is concerned, >and>I understand that the epoxy glues like FPL 16A are quite a bit more >heat>tolerant than the laminating resin used on composite airplanes so I >don't>think that is too much of a concern (Weldwood is a urea formaldehyde).>>If I was building a wooden airplane that I knew would always spend its >life>indoors, I would probably just go with marine spar varnish myself. >Epoxy>lets you keep it outside without the rot worries.>>I wanna build a stitch and glue kayak one of these days.>>Cheers>>John Kahn>Bombardier Inc.Hey, you guys, Mr. Pietenpol (aka Bernie) finished his wood with nitratedope.He told me so.JimV.________________________________________________________________________________
Kahn) writes:>> >> I 'd like to add my 2-bits. I'm currently building a wooden kayak>> utilizing epoxy in a "stitch and glue" process and John is right in >that>> epoxy has revitalized the boating industry - however - in reading >the>> instructions and books as John recommends I've learned that epoxy >does>> get soft with heat. The reason I mention this is the recent >concerns>> about glues like Weldwood deteriorating with heat. I forget the >figures>> but a plane sitting on the ramp can develop some pretty high>> temperatures in closed areas like the wings.>> >> Also, I know that in the old Stitts process, it is important to use>> their primer and varnish because they're formulated to chemically >bond>> with the next layer in the process and other brands made not adhere>> properly. One last consideration is weight. I believe varnish >would be>> lighter. Once again, if it was good enough for Bernie, it's good >enough>> for me! Besides, some of those varnished ships are still flying >after>> 50+ years.>>> Bill Sayre>> Computer Support>> The NEW Boeing Company>>>You got a point Bill, and I probably would not use West System on an>airframe because the Gougon Brothers process relied on fairly heavy>coats of resin, partly because they used it as stuctural component>of the hull. However the Polyfibre folks (nee Stits) just happen to >have an epoxy varnish that is used with their covering process. The >guy at brodhead that I watched running his Model A for the first time>told me he had varnished his airframe with the Polyfibre epoxy >varnish.>>The heat is not a concern as far as a varnish coating is concerned, >and>I understand that the epoxy glues like FPL 16A are quite a bit more >heat>tolerant than the laminating resin used on composite airplanes so I >don't>think that is too much of a concern (Weldwood is a urea formaldehyde).>>If I was building a wooden airplane that I knew would always spend its >life>indoors, I would probably just go with marine spar varnish myself. >Epoxy>lets you keep it outside without the rot worries.>>I wanna build a stitch and glue kayak one of these days.>>Cheers>>John Kahn>Bombardier Inc.Hey, you guys, Mr. Pietenpol (aka Bernie) finished his wood with nitratedope.He told me so.JimV.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By:> James T. VanDervort
Of all the issues so far, therehave been only two that made me really thinkhard. the answer to the first has lead to the answer for the second. Theamount of WORK that has gone into the beast so far also has helped.Currently I am of the mind that once built, I NEVER want to go back intothe critter for repairs and replacement. The Chat group has been veryhelpful in this reasoning also, and I want to thank every body again fortheir input.At this point I would not consider casein glue (even if the inspectorswould let me). I also want to minimize any chance of water damage inpossible outside storage. This dictates the use of epoxy. Following thereasoning, I have now removed ALL metal fittings, am stripping the zincchromate and patio rust proofing, and am redoing the metal in epoxy primer.By using modern technology, it will still be a Piet. Thanks again for the input!
Of all the issues so far, therehave been only two that made me really thinkhard. the answer to the first has lead to the answer for the second. Theamount of WORK that has gone into the beast so far also has helped.Currently I am of the mind that once built, I NEVER want to go back intothe critter for repairs and replacement. The Chat group has been veryhelpful in this reasoning also, and I want to thank every body again fortheir input.At this point I would not consider casein glue (even if the inspectorswould let me). I also want to minimize any chance of water damage inpossible outside storage. This dictates the use of epoxy. Following thereasoning, I have now removed ALL metal fittings, am stripping the zincchromate and patio rust proofing, and am redoing the metal in epoxy primer.By using modern technology, it will still be a Piet. Thanks again for the input!
> Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: "Craig R. Lawler"
> > I am seeing some discussion on using the two part very expensive epoxyfor> varnishing the fuselage and wing ribs/spars. I am sure that the two part> epoxy was not invented back in the twenties and thirties.> > Any comments out there in the real world about why one would do a $150.00> vs a $20.00 varithane or even good old spar varnish. Are there any> limitations down the road which you shpould use regarding ceconite orother> covering. > > I have been doing lots of reading, but am not getting any clearer.> > Your comments would sure be appreciated!> > I hope to have the fuselage epoxied/varnished before winter so that itcan> go in cold storage until spring without worrying about condensation etc.> > Best regards,> -=Ian=-________________________________________________________________________________
> > I am seeing some discussion on using the two part very expensive epoxyfor> varnishing the fuselage and wing ribs/spars. I am sure that the two part> epoxy was not invented back in the twenties and thirties.> > Any comments out there in the real world about why one would do a $150.00> vs a $20.00 varithane or even good old spar varnish. Are there any> limitations down the road which you shpould use regarding ceconite orother> covering. > > I have been doing lots of reading, but am not getting any clearer.> > Your comments would sure be appreciated!> > I hope to have the fuselage epoxied/varnished before winter so that itcan> go in cold storage until spring without worrying about condensation etc.> > Best regards,> -=Ian=-________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: Varnish or epoxy?
Original Posted By: William Conway
> > > Kahn) writes:> >> > >> I 'd like to add my 2-bits. I'm currently building a wooden kayak> >> utilizing epoxy in a "stitch and glue" process and John is right in > >that> >> epoxy has revitalized the boating industry - however - in reading > >the> >> instructions and books as John recommends I've learned that epoxy > >does> >> get soft with heat. The reason I mention this is the recent > >concerns> >> about glues like Weldwood deteriorating with heat. I forget the > >figures> >> but a plane sitting on the ramp can develop some pretty high> >> temperatures in closed areas like the wings.> >> > >> Also, I know that in the old Stitts process, it is important to use> >> their primer and varnish because they're formulated to chemically > >bond> >> with the next layer in the process and other brands made not adhere> >> properly. One last consideration is weight. I believe varnish > >would be> >> lighter. Once again, if it was good enough for Bernie, it's good > >enough> >> for me! Besides, some of those varnished ships are still flying > >after> >> 50+ years.> >> >> Bill Sayre> >> Computer Support> >> The NEW Boeing Company> >> >> >You got a point Bill, and I probably would not use West System on an> >airframe because the Gougon Brothers process relied on fairly heavy> >coats of resin, partly because they used it as stuctural component> >of the hull. However the Polyfibre folks (nee Stits) just happen to > >have an epoxy varnish that is used with their covering process. The > >guy at brodhead that I watched running his Model A for the first time> >told me he had varnished his airframe with the Polyfibre epoxy > >varnish.> >> >The heat is not a concern as far as a varnish coating is concerned, > >and> >I understand that the epoxy glues like FPL 16A are quite a bit more > >heat> >tolerant than the laminating resin used on composite airplanes so I > >don't> >think that is too much of a concern (Weldwood is a urea formaldehyde).> >> >If I was building a wooden airplane that I knew would always spend its > >life> >indoors, I would probably just go with marine spar varnish myself. > >Epoxy> >lets you keep it outside without the rot worries.> >> >I wanna build a stitch and glue kayak one of these days.> >> >Cheers> >> >John Kahn> >Bombardier Inc.> > > > > > Hey, you guys, Mr. Pietenpol (aka Bernie) finished his wood with nitrate> dope.> He told me so.> > JimV.________________________________________________________________________________
> > > Kahn) writes:> >> > >> I 'd like to add my 2-bits. I'm currently building a wooden kayak> >> utilizing epoxy in a "stitch and glue" process and John is right in > >that> >> epoxy has revitalized the boating industry - however - in reading > >the> >> instructions and books as John recommends I've learned that epoxy > >does> >> get soft with heat. The reason I mention this is the recent > >concerns> >> about glues like Weldwood deteriorating with heat. I forget the > >figures> >> but a plane sitting on the ramp can develop some pretty high> >> temperatures in closed areas like the wings.> >> > >> Also, I know that in the old Stitts process, it is important to use> >> their primer and varnish because they're formulated to chemically > >bond> >> with the next layer in the process and other brands made not adhere> >> properly. One last consideration is weight. I believe varnish > >would be> >> lighter. Once again, if it was good enough for Bernie, it's good > >enough> >> for me! Besides, some of those varnished ships are still flying > >after> >> 50+ years.> >> >> Bill Sayre> >> Computer Support> >> The NEW Boeing Company> >> >> >You got a point Bill, and I probably would not use West System on an> >airframe because the Gougon Brothers process relied on fairly heavy> >coats of resin, partly because they used it as stuctural component> >of the hull. However the Polyfibre folks (nee Stits) just happen to > >have an epoxy varnish that is used with their covering process. The > >guy at brodhead that I watched running his Model A for the first time> >told me he had varnished his airframe with the Polyfibre epoxy > >varnish.> >> >The heat is not a concern as far as a varnish coating is concerned, > >and> >I understand that the epoxy glues like FPL 16A are quite a bit more > >heat> >tolerant than the laminating resin used on composite airplanes so I > >don't> >think that is too much of a concern (Weldwood is a urea formaldehyde).> >> >If I was building a wooden airplane that I knew would always spend its > >life> >indoors, I would probably just go with marine spar varnish myself. > >Epoxy> >lets you keep it outside without the rot worries.> >> >I wanna build a stitch and glue kayak one of these days.> >> >Cheers> >> >John Kahn> >Bombardier Inc.> > > > > > Hey, you guys, Mr. Pietenpol (aka Bernie) finished his wood with nitrate> dope.> He told me so.> > JimV.________________________________________________________________________________