Original Posted By: "BritishJim"
Hey Gary,You make good points, and I've declined flying some planes owned by others forthose same reasons. But, I was pretty comfortable with Andy flying from the rearpit. I'd taken him up several times in the front pit and, heck, his landingswere/are better than mine! He's been flying since 14 and has lots of time ingliders, so though these were his first experiences with a true taildragger,he did super. It was a lot of fun "teaching" a scant bit of tailwheel technique.Hope you guys have a great weekend flying!JeffRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot?
Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot?
Original Posted By: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Greetings!Looking to start my build ASAP. But there is just one problem........I've no darn idea how to build from wood and plans!Are there any books covering the plans and wood building process geared for totalnewbies? My main concern is how I translate plans that are not full-sized intofull-scale components.I hear great things about the Bingelis books, but I am not sure if they cover theplans-building process from scratch?Any suggestions of resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a fast learner -but up until this point in life have been too ignorant of building and far tooconcentrated on the actual flying bit!Many thanks,Jim.--------Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot?
Greetings!Looking to start my build ASAP. But there is just one problem........I've no darn idea how to build from wood and plans!Are there any books covering the plans and wood building process geared for totalnewbies? My main concern is how I translate plans that are not full-sized intofull-scale components.I hear great things about the Bingelis books, but I am not sure if they cover theplans-building process from scratch?Any suggestions of resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a fast learner -but up until this point in life have been too ignorant of building and far tooconcentrated on the actual flying bit!Many thanks,Jim.--------Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot?
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Hi Jim Although uncle Tony's books are a treasure trove of valuable skills, they don'tspecifically address your question. May I suggest that your first projectwill be to build a sturdy work bench about 4'x16' in size, then layout directlyon that. Read the flying and glider manuals republished by EAA, and get TonyBingelis' books as well. I'm building from plans presented in the Flying and Glider manuals. They'renot hard to follow. Sometimes you have to dig a little for specific info, butit's all about learning Enjoy you're build. Glen. Aerial in progress(fuse off bench, tail feathersof bench, Corvair engine for WW conversion being disassembled)Sent from my iPhone> On Apr 11, 2015, at 6:44 AM, "BritishJim" wrote:> > > Greetings!> > Looking to start my build ASAP. But there is just one problem....> > ....I've no darn idea how to build from wood and plans!> > Are there any books covering the plans and wood building process geared for totalnewbies? My main concern is how I translate plans that are not full-sizedinto full-scale components.> > I hear great things about the Bingelis books, but I am not sure if they coverthe plans-building process from scratch?> > Any suggestions of resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a fast learner- but up until this point in life have been too ignorant of building and fartoo concentrated on the actual flying bit!> > Many thanks,> Jim.> > --------> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 631#440631> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 09:36:39 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot?
Hi Jim Although uncle Tony's books are a treasure trove of valuable skills, they don'tspecifically address your question. May I suggest that your first projectwill be to build a sturdy work bench about 4'x16' in size, then layout directlyon that. Read the flying and glider manuals republished by EAA, and get TonyBingelis' books as well. I'm building from plans presented in the Flying and Glider manuals. They'renot hard to follow. Sometimes you have to dig a little for specific info, butit's all about learning Enjoy you're build. Glen. Aerial in progress(fuse off bench, tail feathersof bench, Corvair engine for WW conversion being disassembled)Sent from my iPhone> On Apr 11, 2015, at 6:44 AM, "BritishJim" wrote:> > > Greetings!> > Looking to start my build ASAP. But there is just one problem....> > ....I've no darn idea how to build from wood and plans!> > Are there any books covering the plans and wood building process geared for totalnewbies? My main concern is how I translate plans that are not full-sizedinto full-scale components.> > I hear great things about the Bingelis books, but I am not sure if they coverthe plans-building process from scratch?> > Any suggestions of resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a fast learner- but up until this point in life have been too ignorant of building and fartoo concentrated on the actual flying bit!> > Many thanks,> Jim.> > --------> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 631#440631> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 09:36:39 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Books for an idiot?
Original Posted By: "THOMAS.233327"
Plus one on the mentor.However, given your rather general lack of knowledge of the process, rather thanlack of specifics, consider woodworkers, shop teachers, even model buildersas they all build stuff from wood, from other than full sized plans.Once that process sort of sinks in, and I imagine it will very quickly, other planebuilders, bingelis books and even other eaa home building publications willmake a lot more sense. Oh, even plywood kayak builders employ many of the same disciplines as wood airplanebuilding.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 18:12:51 +0000 (UTC)
Plus one on the mentor.However, given your rather general lack of knowledge of the process, rather thanlack of specifics, consider woodworkers, shop teachers, even model buildersas they all build stuff from wood, from other than full sized plans.Once that process sort of sinks in, and I imagine it will very quickly, other planebuilders, bingelis books and even other eaa home building publications willmake a lot more sense. Oh, even plywood kayak builders employ many of the same disciplines as wood airplanebuilding.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 18:12:51 +0000 (UTC)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Books for an idiot?
Original Posted By: "Jack Philips"
Jim,The idiot is the guy that doesn't ask and just builds blindly. You are no idiot.All the responses have been good, and you should follow them. My advice is readeverything you can, and watch YouTube as there is a lot of advice there ( somegood, some not so much...). I have found that watching the EAA videos has beena great help.I know you are up in the Great White North, but another place to go is to downloadyour own copy of AC 43.13-1b, the FAA's book of acceptable construction practices.http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies ... /99861Hope that helps.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Jim,The idiot is the guy that doesn't ask and just builds blindly. You are no idiot.All the responses have been good, and you should follow them. My advice is readeverything you can, and watch YouTube as there is a lot of advice there ( somegood, some not so much...). I have found that watching the EAA videos has beena great help.I know you are up in the Great White North, but another place to go is to downloadyour own copy of AC 43.13-1b, the FAA's book of acceptable construction practices.http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies ... /99861Hope that helps.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Jim,You've gotten some good advice already, although nothing that actuallyanswers your "main concern".If you can possibly make it to Sun 'n' Fun in a couple of weeks, spendingsome time at the woodworking tent would be invaluable to you. If you can'tmake that venue, perhaps you can make it to Oshkosh (and if you go toOshkosh you should certainly come to Brodhead the weekend before). There'snothing like seeing the jigs laid out in front of you and seeing how thepieces of wood are forced to take shape, and seeing it with your own eyes,rather than looking at pictures in a book.As for translating plans that are not full sized into full sized components,that is fairly easy. The plans just show the general layout and arrangementof the wooden members. The dimensions on the plans are the important thing,and every piece is dimensioned fully in the plans (well, for the most part).Generally individual pieces such as the capstrips and uprights in the ribsare made with a common sized material, such as 1/4" thick and 1/2" wide.Then the only thing you need to find is the length, which should be shownsomewhere on the plans.For pieces like wing ribs, the plans include a full size template for theribs. They also give the coordinates for laying out the ribs full sizeyourself. If you want to use the paper template, first make somemeasurements to see how true it is. The distance between the spars shouldbe 27-3/4". If it measures within 1/16" of that, go ahead and use thetemplate (that's what I did). If it varies more than that you shouldprobably lay it out from the coordinates.Once you have the outline of the rib laid out, you can position small blocksof wood to hold the capstrip to that shape, and build a jig so that each ofthe 30 ribs are identical.One thing you should understand in building a wooden airplane is that about90% of the strength of a wooden joint comes from the plywood gusset thatcovers the joint. If you notice when looking at the plans, every singlejoint in the airplane is covered with plywood. The plywood serves twopurpose - it greatly increases the glue area and it provides most of theshear strength of the joint. A glued butt joint is not very strong - itrelies completely on the glue in tension, which is not good. Putting agusset on that joint changes the loading to shear loading (trying to slidethe wood past the plywood gusset) and glue is very good at resisting shear.One thing any builder should do as they are building their structure is tobuild some test joints using the same materials and the same glue as theybuild the real structure. Then, once the glue has fully cured, break thetest pieces by pulling on the wood in the same direction that flight loadswill impose. Once the joint has broken, examine it to be sure that the woodactually broke, not the glue joint. That is the mark of a well made gluejoint.Look at the pictures Chris Tracy has put on his West Coast Piet website.I'm sure you can find a few that will show the jigs used for the variouscomponents. Virtually no part of an airplane is made without some sort ofjig to hold the pieces accurately. Building an airplane is really a seriesof one alignment problem after another. Sometimes it takes great ingenuityto figure out how to hold the various pieces in alignment.Hang in there and never refrain from asking questions if you don't know howto proceed.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Jim,You've gotten some good advice already, although nothing that actuallyanswers your "main concern".If you can possibly make it to Sun 'n' Fun in a couple of weeks, spendingsome time at the woodworking tent would be invaluable to you. If you can'tmake that venue, perhaps you can make it to Oshkosh (and if you go toOshkosh you should certainly come to Brodhead the weekend before). There'snothing like seeing the jigs laid out in front of you and seeing how thepieces of wood are forced to take shape, and seeing it with your own eyes,rather than looking at pictures in a book.As for translating plans that are not full sized into full sized components,that is fairly easy. The plans just show the general layout and arrangementof the wooden members. The dimensions on the plans are the important thing,and every piece is dimensioned fully in the plans (well, for the most part).Generally individual pieces such as the capstrips and uprights in the ribsare made with a common sized material, such as 1/4" thick and 1/2" wide.Then the only thing you need to find is the length, which should be shownsomewhere on the plans.For pieces like wing ribs, the plans include a full size template for theribs. They also give the coordinates for laying out the ribs full sizeyourself. If you want to use the paper template, first make somemeasurements to see how true it is. The distance between the spars shouldbe 27-3/4". If it measures within 1/16" of that, go ahead and use thetemplate (that's what I did). If it varies more than that you shouldprobably lay it out from the coordinates.Once you have the outline of the rib laid out, you can position small blocksof wood to hold the capstrip to that shape, and build a jig so that each ofthe 30 ribs are identical.One thing you should understand in building a wooden airplane is that about90% of the strength of a wooden joint comes from the plywood gusset thatcovers the joint. If you notice when looking at the plans, every singlejoint in the airplane is covered with plywood. The plywood serves twopurpose - it greatly increases the glue area and it provides most of theshear strength of the joint. A glued butt joint is not very strong - itrelies completely on the glue in tension, which is not good. Putting agusset on that joint changes the loading to shear loading (trying to slidethe wood past the plywood gusset) and glue is very good at resisting shear.One thing any builder should do as they are building their structure is tobuild some test joints using the same materials and the same glue as theybuild the real structure. Then, once the glue has fully cured, break thetest pieces by pulling on the wood in the same direction that flight loadswill impose. Once the joint has broken, examine it to be sure that the woodactually broke, not the glue joint. That is the mark of a well made gluejoint.Look at the pictures Chris Tracy has put on his West Coast Piet website.I'm sure you can find a few that will show the jigs used for the variouscomponents. Virtually no part of an airplane is made without some sort ofjig to hold the pieces accurately. Building an airplane is really a seriesof one alignment problem after another. Sometimes it takes great ingenuityto figure out how to hold the various pieces in alignment.Hang in there and never refrain from asking questions if you don't know howto proceed.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Some workshop ideas......
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Great set of drawers - nice dovetails....!--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Great set of drawers - nice dovetails....!--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Books for an idiot?
Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
Yesterday was moving day. With the help of a half dozen friends, I made the=BE mile move to a better location. Good friends will show up to help move,with absolutely no incentive at all. I promised scones and lunch, so thatdoesn=92t apply to this group, but they=92re good guys anyhow=85Skyscout builder, Ray Krause, flew over in his Waiex to help. I neededsomeone to move the plane, and he needed Pietenpol taxi experience=85it waskismet: http://youtu.be/4PQczGgmnqM. You cansee Ray=92s plane at about 1:07.I haven=92t had a chance to fly with the camera in this location, but couldn=92tresist the urge to at least try it on the ground.Gary BootheNX308MB________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Books for an idiot?
Yesterday was moving day. With the help of a half dozen friends, I made the=BE mile move to a better location. Good friends will show up to help move,with absolutely no incentive at all. I promised scones and lunch, so thatdoesn=92t apply to this group, but they=92re good guys anyhow=85Skyscout builder, Ray Krause, flew over in his Waiex to help. I neededsomeone to move the plane, and he needed Pietenpol taxi experience=85it waskismet: http://youtu.be/4PQczGgmnqM. You cansee Ray=92s plane at about 1:07.I haven=92t had a chance to fly with the camera in this location, but couldn=92tresist the urge to at least try it on the ground.Gary BootheNX308MB________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Books for an idiot?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Hangar Moving
Original Posted By: Jack
Hi British Jim, >From your post, it sounds like your greatest concern is how to read and make senseof the plans themselves, and how to translate them imto full sized patternsor templates to work from. Jack Phillips and Glen Schweitzer have given verygood advice, and Paul Donahue's pictures are quite good at showing the generalprinciple of laying out the full size part directly onto the building table. If reading the plans is what is confusing to you, I would suggest talking withsomeone who is skilled in the art of drafting, to get the basics of how to read/interprethow the dimensions are laid out, and other various ideas such ashow dotted lines on the plan represent actual parts that are hidden from viewby other structural components. As far as transferring angles, simply measurestraight from the plans with a protractor and draw your full sized diagram withthe same angle. Enlarge circular items with a ruler and a compass. Most ofenlarging a plan to a full sized building template is remembering grade schoolgeometry. Start with the wing ribs, or perhaps with the tail section components.Draw them up at full size, then step back a few feet and examine your drawingto see if it looks correct. It's all a lot easier than it sounds.--------Billy McCaskillBaker, LAtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hangar Moving
Hi British Jim, >From your post, it sounds like your greatest concern is how to read and make senseof the plans themselves, and how to translate them imto full sized patternsor templates to work from. Jack Phillips and Glen Schweitzer have given verygood advice, and Paul Donahue's pictures are quite good at showing the generalprinciple of laying out the full size part directly onto the building table. If reading the plans is what is confusing to you, I would suggest talking withsomeone who is skilled in the art of drafting, to get the basics of how to read/interprethow the dimensions are laid out, and other various ideas such ashow dotted lines on the plan represent actual parts that are hidden from viewby other structural components. As far as transferring angles, simply measurestraight from the plans with a protractor and draw your full sized diagram withthe same angle. Enlarge circular items with a ruler and a compass. Most ofenlarging a plan to a full sized building template is remembering grade schoolgeometry. Start with the wing ribs, or perhaps with the tail section components.Draw them up at full size, then step back a few feet and examine your drawingto see if it looks correct. It's all a lot easier than it sounds.--------Billy McCaskillBaker, LAtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hangar Moving
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Gary what is the stuff in your jury struts? Lawn chairs?Sent from my iPadJack Textor> On Apr 12, 2015, at 11:06 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:> > Yesterday was moving day. With the help of a half dozen friends, I made the =C2=BE mile move to a better location. Good friends will show up to help move, with absolutely no incentive at all. I promised scones and lunch, so that doesn=99t apply to this group, but they=99re good guys anyhow> > Skyscout builder, Ray Krause, flew over in his Waiex to help. I needed someone to move the plane, and he needed Pietenpol taxi experienceit was kismet: http://youtu.be/4PQczGgmnqM. You can see Ray=99s plane at about 1:07.> > I haven=99t had a chance to fly with the camera in this location, but couldn=99t resist the urge to at least try it on the ground.> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________
Gary what is the stuff in your jury struts? Lawn chairs?Sent from my iPadJack Textor> On Apr 12, 2015, at 11:06 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:> > Yesterday was moving day. With the help of a half dozen friends, I made the =C2=BE mile move to a better location. Good friends will show up to help move, with absolutely no incentive at all. I promised scones and lunch, so that doesn=99t apply to this group, but they=99re good guys anyhow> > Skyscout builder, Ray Krause, flew over in his Waiex to help. I needed someone to move the plane, and he needed Pietenpol taxi experienceit was kismet: http://youtu.be/4PQczGgmnqM. You can see Ray=99s plane at about 1:07.> > I haven=99t had a chance to fly with the camera in this location, but couldn=99t resist the urge to at least try it on the ground.> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Hangar Moving
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Yepor 20mm cannonsGary BootheNX308MB
Yepor 20mm cannonsGary BootheNX308MB