Original Posted By: "BritishJim"
Wow! ... 126 pounds of fuel. That is a lot of inertia in the center section.Very nice tank.Wf2--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
How long is a piece of string....right?I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's R-80Tiger Moth. Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet? Iknow that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live outin the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting localsuppliers.Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :pJim.--------Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
How long is a piece of string....right?I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's R-80Tiger Moth. Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet? Iknow that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live outin the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting localsuppliers.Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :pJim.--------Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: Scott Knowlton
Round numbers - $12,000Sent from my iPhone> On Aug 28, 2015, at 9:23 AM, BritishJim wrote:> > > How long is a piece of string....right?> > I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher'sR-80 Tiger Moth. > > Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet?I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.> > I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live outin the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visitinglocal suppliers.> > Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p> > Jim.> > --------> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 471#446471> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
Round numbers - $12,000Sent from my iPhone> On Aug 28, 2015, at 9:23 AM, BritishJim wrote:> > > How long is a piece of string....right?> > I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher'sR-80 Tiger Moth. > > Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet?I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.> > I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live outin the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visitinglocal suppliers.> > Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p> > Jim.> > --------> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 471#446471> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: Scott Knowlton
The wood for a Piet shouldn't cost you more than $2500cdn but perhaps the shippingwill mark that up significantly.I have all my steel pieces made and spent less than $400.00My motorcycle wheels cost $50.00 each on Kijjiji and I respoked them for an additional$75 each.Fuel tank: $300.00Varnishes, glues, brushes, gloves:$300.00Cowling materials: $200.00Pullies, cables, shackles, turnbuckles, clevis pins, etc: $1500.0. (That stuffis expensive!!)Strut/cabane material (Carleson aluminium): $350.00Engine/prop: $6000.00Fabric/glue/latex paint: $1800.00Instruments (basic VFR) $1200.00Seatbelts: $400.00These figures are what I spent, some scrounging involved, some over-paying becauseI needed it NOW (or so I thought.....). Plus or minus $15K Canadian. I'm sure I've forgotten many little items that otherscan chime in from but the word around my household is that I spent 15K andI will not admit to more.... The best part of this is that I have been buildingfor about 8 years so the accumulation of parts and pieces has come from mymad money. I wouldn't have had that option if I was putting a big chunk of cashdown on a kit. I've also loved the many social experiences that have occurredwhen I met people who's building supplies I purchased: Seatbelts on Kijjiji,exhaust system on eBay from a Chinook pilot stationed in Afghanistan, turnbucklesat the Oshkosh fly mart, motorcycle wheels from a Cafe Racer builder...Really cool people who I think of often when I look at my project. I also love answering the "is that a kit?", question from people who visit my shop.I reply, "yes it was, it came in a poster tube..."We can talk more when we visit. Scott Sent from my iPhone> On Aug 28, 2015, at 12:27 PM, "BritishJim" wrote:> > > How long is a piece of string....right?> > I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher'sR-80 Tiger Moth. > > Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet?I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.> > I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live outin the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visitinglocal suppliers.> > Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p> > Jim.> > --------> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 471#446471> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
The wood for a Piet shouldn't cost you more than $2500cdn but perhaps the shippingwill mark that up significantly.I have all my steel pieces made and spent less than $400.00My motorcycle wheels cost $50.00 each on Kijjiji and I respoked them for an additional$75 each.Fuel tank: $300.00Varnishes, glues, brushes, gloves:$300.00Cowling materials: $200.00Pullies, cables, shackles, turnbuckles, clevis pins, etc: $1500.0. (That stuffis expensive!!)Strut/cabane material (Carleson aluminium): $350.00Engine/prop: $6000.00Fabric/glue/latex paint: $1800.00Instruments (basic VFR) $1200.00Seatbelts: $400.00These figures are what I spent, some scrounging involved, some over-paying becauseI needed it NOW (or so I thought.....). Plus or minus $15K Canadian. I'm sure I've forgotten many little items that otherscan chime in from but the word around my household is that I spent 15K andI will not admit to more.... The best part of this is that I have been buildingfor about 8 years so the accumulation of parts and pieces has come from mymad money. I wouldn't have had that option if I was putting a big chunk of cashdown on a kit. I've also loved the many social experiences that have occurredwhen I met people who's building supplies I purchased: Seatbelts on Kijjiji,exhaust system on eBay from a Chinook pilot stationed in Afghanistan, turnbucklesat the Oshkosh fly mart, motorcycle wheels from a Cafe Racer builder...Really cool people who I think of often when I look at my project. I also love answering the "is that a kit?", question from people who visit my shop.I reply, "yes it was, it came in a poster tube..."We can talk more when we visit. Scott Sent from my iPhone> On Aug 28, 2015, at 12:27 PM, "BritishJim" wrote:> > > How long is a piece of string....right?> > I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher'sR-80 Tiger Moth. > > Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet?I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.> > I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live outin the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visitinglocal suppliers.> > Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p> > Jim.> > --------> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 471#446471> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: "tools"
I'm interested in these:http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1814711764 ... pid=82They are being tested by Zenair on their CH750. You can read about it here:http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/t ... ires$50ish each for now because its made for an ATV. Once they start getting aviationbusiness, I'm sure the cost will quaduple.--------Andy Garrett'General Purpose Creative Dude'Haysville, KansasRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
I'm interested in these:http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1814711764 ... pid=82They are being tested by Zenair on their CH750. You can read about it here:http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/t ... ires$50ish each for now because its made for an ATV. Once they start getting aviationbusiness, I'm sure the cost will quaduple.--------Andy Garrett'General Purpose Creative Dude'Haysville, KansasRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: "Jack Philips"
Food for thought... A Piet is one of the most popular home builts ever. Buyinga wrecked, dilapidated or stared but never finished project saves a bunch oftime and money.Not sure about the quality? The expensive parts are fairly easily checked. Thewood is cheap compared to the whole project... You get the idea. I refer to them as quick build kits, some less quick than others. As with allbuying, just be sure about what you are getting, and spend less than it's worth.Not trivial, but then again, what's trivial about buying it all separatelyor building a plane to begin with?I also consider it my contribution to recycling.Cheers!ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Food for thought... A Piet is one of the most popular home builts ever. Buyinga wrecked, dilapidated or stared but never finished project saves a bunch oftime and money.Not sure about the quality? The expensive parts are fairly easily checked. Thewood is cheap compared to the whole project... You get the idea. I refer to them as quick build kits, some less quick than others. As with allbuying, just be sure about what you are getting, and spend less than it's worth.Not trivial, but then again, what's trivial about buying it all separatelyor building a plane to begin with?I also consider it my contribution to recycling.Cheers!ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Jim, I spared no expense when building my Pietenpol, using expensivepolyurethane paint and adding a radio and transponder. My total cost was$15,000 (ten years ago). It took me eight years to build it. I like totell people I spent the same amount of money in those eight years that a twopack per day smoker would have spent on cigarettes.One of the unsung advantages of building to plans versus a kit is that theexpenses can be spread out much further. I'm currently building an RV-10kit and each of the four kits (Tail, Wings, Fuselage, and Finishing) arequite expensive and represent a substantial investment. I just got thefuselage kit and am starting to save now for the $16,000 that will berequired for the finishing kit. When building my Pietenpol the largestsingle expenditure was $3,200 for new Millenium cylinders for the engine.Most of the orders were around a few hundred dollars.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Jim, I spared no expense when building my Pietenpol, using expensivepolyurethane paint and adding a radio and transponder. My total cost was$15,000 (ten years ago). It took me eight years to build it. I like totell people I spent the same amount of money in those eight years that a twopack per day smoker would have spent on cigarettes.One of the unsung advantages of building to plans versus a kit is that theexpenses can be spread out much further. I'm currently building an RV-10kit and each of the four kits (Tail, Wings, Fuselage, and Finishing) arequite expensive and represent a substantial investment. I just got thefuselage kit and am starting to save now for the $16,000 that will berequired for the finishing kit. When building my Pietenpol the largestsingle expenditure was $3,200 for new Millenium cylinders for the engine.Most of the orders were around a few hundred dollars.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: Robert Gow
Back in 1972 it cost us $1500. Nope not a typo. We got our moneys worth manymany years ago. Just think about it like this. 15K now and in 20 years you'lllook back and say. "That was a bargain" And it was inexpensive too. Likejack said, Just a two pack a day habit covers it. That statement was probablytrue back in 1972 as well. Great way of looking at it.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Back in 1972 it cost us $1500. Nope not a typo. We got our moneys worth manymany years ago. Just think about it like this. 15K now and in 20 years you'lllook back and say. "That was a bargain" And it was inexpensive too. Likejack said, Just a two pack a day habit covers it. That statement was probablytrue back in 1972 as well. Great way of looking at it.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
And a new car was $3,000. House $18,000. I made $4.00 an hour.Cigarettes were under a dollar. Coffee went from 10 cents to 25 . . .Robert Gow,President and DAO Manager.Avionics Design Services Ltd.Phn 705-527-6095Cell 416-434-3393Fax 705-527-6028www.avionicsdesign.ca -----Original Message-----
And a new car was $3,000. House $18,000. I made $4.00 an hour.Cigarettes were under a dollar. Coffee went from 10 cents to 25 . . .Robert Gow,President and DAO Manager.Avionics Design Services Ltd.Phn 705-527-6095Cell 416-434-3393Fax 705-527-6028www.avionicsdesign.ca -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
On building the 6 Big Piets, each builder paid $200 per month into a kittyand then just bought what we needed. On this group build, we did not "draw"a serial number until we the planes were ready for final paint, so we had noidea whose plane we were working on or which one we would get. This kept thequality the same, but did not leave a lot of room for scrounging. We spent$6500 on each Corvair engine and really spared no expense on much ofanything. We welded steel fuselages, built wood wings and finished withStewart system for paint. We bought stuff like yellow tagged Marvel carbs,New Grove wheels and brakes, powder coated all metal parts. All in all wespent $16,000 on each plane and finished all but one (one guy quit theproject) in 6 years working every Monday night and one Saturday a month. Wehad several EAA Chapter members that visited the project a lot so we wouldnot just let them stand around and watch, we put them to work. I know Matt Lworked at least 500 hours and others worked 200 to 300 hours each. Thisextra help really paid off.The $200 per month made it really easy to finance the Big Piet Project.BarryNX973BP-----Original Message-----
On building the 6 Big Piets, each builder paid $200 per month into a kittyand then just bought what we needed. On this group build, we did not "draw"a serial number until we the planes were ready for final paint, so we had noidea whose plane we were working on or which one we would get. This kept thequality the same, but did not leave a lot of room for scrounging. We spent$6500 on each Corvair engine and really spared no expense on much ofanything. We welded steel fuselages, built wood wings and finished withStewart system for paint. We bought stuff like yellow tagged Marvel carbs,New Grove wheels and brakes, powder coated all metal parts. All in all wespent $16,000 on each plane and finished all but one (one guy quit theproject) in 6 years working every Monday night and one Saturday a month. Wehad several EAA Chapter members that visited the project a lot so we wouldnot just let them stand around and watch, we put them to work. I know Matt Lworked at least 500 hours and others worked 200 to 300 hours each. Thisextra help really paid off.The $200 per month made it really easy to finance the Big Piet Project.BarryNX973BP-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Yes, I agree that it's a lot of fuel/weight. I have built substantially strongercabaine struts and will secure the tank with 4130 straps/turbuckles.I wanted a three-hour capacity, since the ROTEC radial burns about 7gph. So I shouldhave 2 1/2 hours flying time plus reserve. As a comparison, the Stearman tank in that upper center-section holds 46 gallons...!!!--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Yes, I agree that it's a lot of fuel/weight. I have built substantially strongercabaine struts and will secure the tank with 4130 straps/turbuckles.I wanted a three-hour capacity, since the ROTEC radial burns about 7gph. So I shouldhave 2 1/2 hours flying time plus reserve. As a comparison, the Stearman tank in that upper center-section holds 46 gallons...!!!--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: "tools"
One more thing, Jim.In Canada, if you register the plane as an amateur built, you will be requiredto have a couple of inspections performed by MDRA. Those inspections are notfree. Count on spending almost $2000 for the inspections.If, however, you register the plane as a Basic Ultralight (which the Pietenpolqualifies as,) then there are no inspections required, and thus, no fees for inspections.The down side is that you're not allowed to carry passengers, exceptunder certain circumstances.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
One more thing, Jim.In Canada, if you register the plane as an amateur built, you will be requiredto have a couple of inspections performed by MDRA. Those inspections are notfree. Count on spending almost $2000 for the inspections.If, however, you register the plane as a Basic Ultralight (which the Pietenpolqualifies as,) then there are no inspections required, and thus, no fees for inspections.The down side is that you're not allowed to carry passengers, exceptunder certain circumstances.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: "BritishJim"
Hey bill,Is that a one time shot for you guys? Can you fork up the fees and do the inspectionslater with any practicality?ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Hey bill,Is that a one time shot for you guys? Can you fork up the fees and do the inspectionslater with any practicality?ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Harvey; if you have the Pietenpol Corvair engine mount plans, note that the two1-1/4"x.049 steel tubes that form the "bed" for the Corvair bed mount have capson their firewall ends with 5/16" holes. If you look at where those fall onthe fore end of the fuselage, I believe they line up with that 11-3/4" dimensionfrom the top of the upper longeron. That would locate a cross-brace to boltthe bed tubes to the fuselage. If you're using a William Wynne mount, don'tbother with that cross-brace unless you just want to stiffen the front of thefuselage, because his mount just uses the 4 standard corner mount points andthe bed 'floats'.The 1-1/4" x 1-1/2" ash bearer support is used with the Ford engine, where thetwo 1"x2-1/4" ash engine bearers are supported at their fuselage end by that bearersupport. If you're using the Corvair or Continental, there is really nothingbearing on that bearer support so you don't need it. So you will need somex-brace at the top of the fuselage, but depending on which engine you use,it may go at the top or somewhere below that.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Harvey; if you have the Pietenpol Corvair engine mount plans, note that the two1-1/4"x.049 steel tubes that form the "bed" for the Corvair bed mount have capson their firewall ends with 5/16" holes. If you look at where those fall onthe fore end of the fuselage, I believe they line up with that 11-3/4" dimensionfrom the top of the upper longeron. That would locate a cross-brace to boltthe bed tubes to the fuselage. If you're using a William Wynne mount, don'tbother with that cross-brace unless you just want to stiffen the front of thefuselage, because his mount just uses the 4 standard corner mount points andthe bed 'floats'.The 1-1/4" x 1-1/2" ash bearer support is used with the Ford engine, where thetwo 1"x2-1/4" ash engine bearers are supported at their fuselage end by that bearersupport. If you're using the Corvair or Continental, there is really nothingbearing on that bearer support so you don't need it. So you will need somex-brace at the top of the fuselage, but depending on which engine you use,it may go at the top or somewhere below that.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: "tools"
Tools,There is a minimum requirement of a pre-cover inspection and a final inspection.These inspections must be performed, and passed before the permit to fly canbe issued.The funny thing is that the very same aircraft can be built and registered as aBasic Ultralight without any mandatory inspections.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Tools,There is a minimum requirement of a pre-cover inspection and a final inspection.These inspections must be performed, and passed before the permit to fly canbe issued.The funny thing is that the very same aircraft can be built and registered as aBasic Ultralight without any mandatory inspections.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
Original Posted By: "tools"
People always ask... What plane, what tools, what skills...I'm coming to the conclusion, as least for folks like me, a good shrink or somepsych courses on how to just make a decision and stick with it! This stuff just wouldn't be fun without a bunch seemingly life altering decisions...Scott and I are looking at our new project with a utility knife quivering in ourhand, do we strip all the way down or just fix the damn thing and go fly?So British Jim, congratulations on asking the ONLY question in Piet history withNO controversy! I think the wildest thing is how consistent the build priceis over time. Things that make you go hmmm?!Another universal truth, time or money. Buying a project to start out with willsave money, but you can't pick up the phone and order it from spruce the minuteyou want it. Likely gonna cost time. For what it's worth, I bought mine complete for $12k. I believe that's about medianfor a good bird. Bad news, less than it costs to build. Good news, notmuch less and will keep that value for a LONG time with minimal effort. Greatnews, either way it is a FANTASTIC return on investment. Cheers,ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
People always ask... What plane, what tools, what skills...I'm coming to the conclusion, as least for folks like me, a good shrink or somepsych courses on how to just make a decision and stick with it! This stuff just wouldn't be fun without a bunch seemingly life altering decisions...Scott and I are looking at our new project with a utility knife quivering in ourhand, do we strip all the way down or just fix the damn thing and go fly?So British Jim, congratulations on asking the ONLY question in Piet history withNO controversy! I think the wildest thing is how consistent the build priceis over time. Things that make you go hmmm?!Another universal truth, time or money. Buying a project to start out with willsave money, but you can't pick up the phone and order it from spruce the minuteyou want it. Likely gonna cost time. For what it's worth, I bought mine complete for $12k. I believe that's about medianfor a good bird. Bad news, less than it costs to build. Good news, notmuch less and will keep that value for a LONG time with minimal effort. Greatnews, either way it is a FANTASTIC return on investment. Cheers,ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?