Original Posted By: Michael Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketchhttp://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/I ... g.jpg*Glad to hear your nose tank is working out Rick. Love my 17 gallon nosetank. No header tank, no muss, no lines running from a center section tank(my center section is all baggage) **Mike C. *On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote:> lmforge(at)earthlink.net>>> Vincent,> Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using gravity feed to the> carb, no fuel pump was required. When I ran the fuel flow test, with the> plane at about a 16 degree angle of attack, there was plenty of head> pressure. I don=99t recall the actual figures, but it was way better than the> 150% of max power fuel consumption required by the FAR. The useable fuel> was also almost the full 18 gallons except for a few ounces. The last fuel> flow test was actually done with 48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow was> fine.> I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of the tank. My tank> design followed pretty much what Mike Cuy did, except I did not add in the> rear extension. If I had to do it again I would put in the rear extension> that Mike has as it gives more support to the tank rear. It makes it a> little more difficult to construct the tank, but I think it=99s worth it. If> you are following my tank dimensions, I would make it slightly narrower. My> tank is a little tight when trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and> carb heat cables.> The tank support is two stainless steel straps running fore and aft. These> straps attach to the forward ash piece at the firewall and the shelf behind> the front cockpit instrument panel. This shelf is reinforced with =C2=BE=9Dx 4=9D> Douglas fir. There is a secondary support that goes left and right under> the tank, also made of Douglas fir. Finally there is a top strap that goes> across the top bow of the tank.> The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I did. Also check> Mike Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet website, as that's where I> shamelessly plagiarized my ideas.> Regards,> Rick Schreiber> NX478RS> Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 070#465070>>> Attachments:>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... uy_372.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/line ... rs_989.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100 ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Original Posted By: Richard Schreiber
Subject: Pietenpol-List: a whole page of Piet sketches---web link belowFor those of you who are newer to the list, here's a page of a few of themiscellaneous sketches that I've drawn to help others along while buildingtheirPietenpol. Scroll down after you get to the page.The fuel tank sketch/installation is in there along with a bunch of othersketches---of possible interest.http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mik ... s.htmlMike C.NX48MC________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Subject: Pietenpol-List: a whole page of Piet sketches---web link belowFor those of you who are newer to the list, here's a page of a few of themiscellaneous sketches that I've drawn to help others along while buildingtheirPietenpol. Scroll down after you get to the page.The fuel tank sketch/installation is in there along with a bunch of othersketches---of possible interest.http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mik ... s.htmlMike C.NX48MC________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
It really is working out well Mike. As I said, I plagiarized what you had already done. Putting the rear extension into the shelf area as you did is a better way to go as it gives more support to the tank. That area behind the front IP is wasted space anyways. I was just trying to simplify the tank construction. Until I actually did the fuel flow testing, I was afraid I would have to use ram air to pressurize the tank, but fortunately it wasn't necessary. I have taken off now with a full 18 gal tank and all works well, however that gives me 3 hrs flight time with a 1/2 hour reserve. So far my longest flight has been 2-1/2 hours. As much as I like flying the Piet, I was ready to land and take a break at 2-1/2 hours. When I used to hear people say 2 hours was long enough in a Pietenpol I was wondering what is the problem? I fly over 3 hour legs in my TriPacer all the time with no problem. With a Pietenpol is it lack of padding in an uncomfortable seat? The noise? The wind buffet? For me its just like driving a motorcycle for a long distance. Its the fact that you can never relax like you can in a car, or a more modern enclosed cockpit aircraft. You have to fly it all the time. Not that I am complaining, its just a different kind of flying. In all respects it is more enjoyable than flying the TriPacer, but 17 or 18 gallons of fuel is certainly enough.Rick SchreiberNX478RSPorter Co Regional, Valparaiso INOn 1/14/2017 6:53 PM, Michael Cuy wrote:> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mik ... ch.jpg.jpg>> *Glad to hear your nose tank is working out Rick. Love my 17 gallon > nose tank. No header tank, no muss, no lines running from a center > section tank (my center section is all baggage) *> *> *> *Mike C. *>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rick Schreiber > wrote:>> >>> Vincent,> Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using gravity> feed to the carb, no fuel pump was required. When I ran the fuel> flow test, with the plane at about a 16 degree angle of attack,> there was plenty of head pressure. I dont recall the actual> figures, but it was way better than the 150% of max power fuel> consumption required by the FAR. The useable fuel was also almost> the full 18 gallons except for a few ounces. The last fuel flow> test was actually done with 48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow> was fine.> I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of the tank.> My tank design followed pretty much what Mike Cuy did, except I> did not add in the rear extension. If I had to do it again I would> put in the rear extension that Mike has as it gives more support> to the tank rear. It makes it a little more difficult to construct> the tank, but I think its worth it. If you are following my tank> dimensions, I would make it slightly narrower. My tank is a little> tight when trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and carb heat> cables.> The tank support is two stainless steel straps running fore and> aft. These straps attach to the forward ash piece at the firewall> and the shelf behind the front cockpit instrument panel. This> shelf is reinforced with x 4 Douglas fir. There is a secondary> support that goes left and right under the tank, also made of> Douglas fir. Finally there is a top strap that goes across the top> bow of the tank.> The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I did.> Also check Mike Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet website, as> that's where I shamelessly plagiarized my ideas.> Regards,> Rick Schreiber> NX478RS> Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 070#465070> >>> Attachments:>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... uy_372.jpg> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/line ... rs_989.jpg> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg> >>> ===================================> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer"> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ===================================> FORUMS -> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com> ===================================> WIKI -> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com> ===================================> b Site -> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution> ===================================>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
It really is working out well Mike. As I said, I plagiarized what you had already done. Putting the rear extension into the shelf area as you did is a better way to go as it gives more support to the tank. That area behind the front IP is wasted space anyways. I was just trying to simplify the tank construction. Until I actually did the fuel flow testing, I was afraid I would have to use ram air to pressurize the tank, but fortunately it wasn't necessary. I have taken off now with a full 18 gal tank and all works well, however that gives me 3 hrs flight time with a 1/2 hour reserve. So far my longest flight has been 2-1/2 hours. As much as I like flying the Piet, I was ready to land and take a break at 2-1/2 hours. When I used to hear people say 2 hours was long enough in a Pietenpol I was wondering what is the problem? I fly over 3 hour legs in my TriPacer all the time with no problem. With a Pietenpol is it lack of padding in an uncomfortable seat? The noise? The wind buffet? For me its just like driving a motorcycle for a long distance. Its the fact that you can never relax like you can in a car, or a more modern enclosed cockpit aircraft. You have to fly it all the time. Not that I am complaining, its just a different kind of flying. In all respects it is more enjoyable than flying the TriPacer, but 17 or 18 gallons of fuel is certainly enough.Rick SchreiberNX478RSPorter Co Regional, Valparaiso INOn 1/14/2017 6:53 PM, Michael Cuy wrote:> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mik ... ch.jpg.jpg>> *Glad to hear your nose tank is working out Rick. Love my 17 gallon > nose tank. No header tank, no muss, no lines running from a center > section tank (my center section is all baggage) *> *> *> *Mike C. *>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rick Schreiber > wrote:>> >>> Vincent,> Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using gravity> feed to the carb, no fuel pump was required. When I ran the fuel> flow test, with the plane at about a 16 degree angle of attack,> there was plenty of head pressure. I dont recall the actual> figures, but it was way better than the 150% of max power fuel> consumption required by the FAR. The useable fuel was also almost> the full 18 gallons except for a few ounces. The last fuel flow> test was actually done with 48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow> was fine.> I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of the tank.> My tank design followed pretty much what Mike Cuy did, except I> did not add in the rear extension. If I had to do it again I would> put in the rear extension that Mike has as it gives more support> to the tank rear. It makes it a little more difficult to construct> the tank, but I think its worth it. If you are following my tank> dimensions, I would make it slightly narrower. My tank is a little> tight when trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and carb heat> cables.> The tank support is two stainless steel straps running fore and> aft. These straps attach to the forward ash piece at the firewall> and the shelf behind the front cockpit instrument panel. This> shelf is reinforced with x 4 Douglas fir. There is a secondary> support that goes left and right under the tank, also made of> Douglas fir. Finally there is a top strap that goes across the top> bow of the tank.> The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I did.> Also check Mike Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet website, as> that's where I shamelessly plagiarized my ideas.> Regards,> Rick Schreiber> NX478RS> Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 070#465070> >>> Attachments:>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... uy_372.jpg> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/line ... rs_989.jpg> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg> >>> ===================================> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer"> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ===================================> FORUMS -> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com> ===================================> WIKI -> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com> ===================================> b Site -> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution> ===================================>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
It works! The 16 gallon nose tank on 41CC is essentially the same as Mike Cuy'sdesign, with the rear extension, sloping bottom, and how it's fitted out.As far as flight endurance, I will second what Rick wrote. After about 2 hoursI'm getting antsy, and at 2.5 hours I'm watching the fuel level like a hawk andded-reckoning my way to the nearest restroom.The flight endurance may not be exactly related to cockpit comfort, but I rememberclimbing into my flight instructor's Taylorcraft for a flight review a fewyears ago. I had never been in a T'Craft before and it felt like climbing intoa big comfortable couch in a big comfortable living room, compared to the rearcockpit of the Air Camper! Wow, what a difference! Upholstery, enclosedcockpit, muffled engine noise and air noise... and the T'Craft actually felt somethinglike a Cessna 206 compared to the Piet.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
It works! The 16 gallon nose tank on 41CC is essentially the same as Mike Cuy'sdesign, with the rear extension, sloping bottom, and how it's fitted out.As far as flight endurance, I will second what Rick wrote. After about 2 hoursI'm getting antsy, and at 2.5 hours I'm watching the fuel level like a hawk andded-reckoning my way to the nearest restroom.The flight endurance may not be exactly related to cockpit comfort, but I rememberclimbing into my flight instructor's Taylorcraft for a flight review a fewyears ago. I had never been in a T'Craft before and it felt like climbing intoa big comfortable couch in a big comfortable living room, compared to the rearcockpit of the Air Camper! Wow, what a difference! Upholstery, enclosedcockpit, muffled engine noise and air noise... and the T'Craft actually felt somethinglike a Cessna 206 compared to the Piet.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Also forgot to mention... plan your cable routing before you figure out your fueltank. Like others have mentioned, it can get VERY tight getting cables fromthe rear cockpit to the engine compartment past the fuel tank, especially sinceyou can't take a straight line going through the firewall... you have to dodgearound the fuselage upright just before punching out of the firewall goingforward. The small wires are no problem, it's things like the tach cable (mechanicaltach, anyway).--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 06:12:41 -0500
Also forgot to mention... plan your cable routing before you figure out your fueltank. Like others have mentioned, it can get VERY tight getting cables fromthe rear cockpit to the engine compartment past the fuel tank, especially sinceyou can't take a straight line going through the firewall... you have to dodgearound the fuselage upright just before punching out of the firewall goingforward. The small wires are no problem, it's things like the tach cable (mechanicaltach, anyway).--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 06:12:41 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Original Posted By: Richard Schreiber
Hi Dan,Yes I did lean my seat back. I think it was 10 deg, whatever "Uncle" Tony recommended. I have no problem with seat comfort. I am using temporary temperfoam pads until I decided what thickness and density I want.Dan you are truly an Iron Man. I can't imagine flying for 15 hours. I have done 10 hours at a stretch in the TriPacer coming back from out west, but I had my Wife along with me to fly a little if I needed a break.On my Piet I still need to add a little left rudder to keep flying co-ordinated. I did not offset my rudder to counter act P-factor. I may wind up doing that eventually. I do not want to add any trim tabs.Rick SchreiberNX478RSPorter Co Regional, Valparaiso INOn 1/15/2017 5:12 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> Hi Rick,>> Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had > to do over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2" > in., but that doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long > trips. My longest leg was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to > Loensloe last summer. That was the end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours > in a Pietenpol before the sun set.>> Dan Helsper> Loensloe Airfield> Puryear, TN>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Hi Dan,Yes I did lean my seat back. I think it was 10 deg, whatever "Uncle" Tony recommended. I have no problem with seat comfort. I am using temporary temperfoam pads until I decided what thickness and density I want.Dan you are truly an Iron Man. I can't imagine flying for 15 hours. I have done 10 hours at a stretch in the TriPacer coming back from out west, but I had my Wife along with me to fly a little if I needed a break.On my Piet I still need to add a little left rudder to keep flying co-ordinated. I did not offset my rudder to counter act P-factor. I may wind up doing that eventually. I do not want to add any trim tabs.Rick SchreiberNX478RSPorter Co Regional, Valparaiso INOn 1/15/2017 5:12 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> Hi Rick,>> Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had > to do over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2" > in., but that doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long > trips. My longest leg was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to > Loensloe last summer. That was the end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours > in a Pietenpol before the sun set.>> Dan Helsper> Loensloe Airfield> Puryear, TN>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Original Posted By: "Rick Schreiber"
Oscar,You are very right! Planning the routing of the throttle, carb heat, fuel shut off cables before hand is important if you are making a front bay nose tank. When I designed mine I thought I was allowing enough clearance for the tank, but forgot to allow for the flanges on all the tank seams. That made for a little tighter fit that I had planned on.Rick SchreiberNX478RSPorter Co Regional, Valparaiso INOn 1/14/2017 9:49 PM, taildrags wrote:>> Also forgot to mention... plan your cable routing before you figure out yourfuel tank. Like others have mentioned, it can get VERY tight getting cables fromthe rear cockpit to the engine compartment past the fuel tank, especiallysince you can't take a straight line going through the firewall... you have tododge around the fuselage upright just before punching out of the firewall goingforward. The small wires are no problem, it's things like the tach cable(mechanical tach, anyway).>> --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Oscar,You are very right! Planning the routing of the throttle, carb heat, fuel shut off cables before hand is important if you are making a front bay nose tank. When I designed mine I thought I was allowing enough clearance for the tank, but forgot to allow for the flanges on all the tank seams. That made for a little tighter fit that I had planned on.Rick SchreiberNX478RSPorter Co Regional, Valparaiso INOn 1/14/2017 9:49 PM, taildrags wrote:>> Also forgot to mention... plan your cable routing before you figure out yourfuel tank. Like others have mentioned, it can get VERY tight getting cables fromthe rear cockpit to the engine compartment past the fuel tank, especiallysince you can't take a straight line going through the firewall... you have tododge around the fuselage upright just before punching out of the firewall goingforward. The small wires are no problem, it's things like the tach cable(mechanical tach, anyway).>> --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
I forgot to post a picture of me trying on the rear cockpit seat for fit. Withthe side off you can clealy see the leanback.Rick SchreiberNX478RSPorter Co Regional, Valparaiso INRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_ ... ______Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:23:06 -0500
I forgot to post a picture of me trying on the rear cockpit seat for fit. Withthe side off you can clealy see the leanback.Rick SchreiberNX478RSPorter Co Regional, Valparaiso INRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_ ... ______Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:23:06 -0500