Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Richard Roller

Just for grins, because it’s very cold outside and I can’t work on the Piet, I’ve decided to investigate N34KP’s weight and balance if Ken had decided to slope the wing back instead of moving the engine forward. See the post I did on 11-10-2017 on the weight and balance problems of 34KP. I’ve had to...

Richard Roller

I looked at 34KP. It looks like Ken built it to the plans in reference to the seat cutout. I set in it and the stick hits my legs before it hits the cutout. There is no sign of the tube hitting the cutout.

Richard Roller

N34KP's jury struts are 3/8" x 9/16" steel streamlined tubes. I don't know where Ken found them. He told me once he'd bought them 20 years, or so, ago when he was buying stuff for his Great Lakes project. jury strut.jpg A.E.D. metal products have odd size and small streamlined tubes in dif...

Richard Roller

It's my understanding that the plywood floor does resist drag loads in the center section. The one piece wing has no drag/anti-drug wires in the center section and the cabanes will not react the loads.

Maybe Oscar will weigh in on this, he has the background to explain it.

Richard Roller

Very true.

Richard Roller

I made a set of brackets for the master cylinders. The piece of 1" key stock is the drill guide from the tail longeron repair. I added an extra hole to match the hole spacing for these brackets. It'll be clamped in place and the holes back drilled through the station diagonal.

Richard Roller

I emailed an article last night.

Richard Roller

The tube fuselage is shown on the Pietenpol family plans. Just substitute 4130 tubing.

Richard Roller

You referenced Ken Perkins. I have the a/c (N34KP) that he was building when you visited, as Oscar noted. I meet Ken about 1994, when we both worked for TWA at the Kansas City overhaul base. I had worked on small a/c before being at the base and Ken needed someone who could get all the way into the ...

Richard Roller

Varmint. A case of needless information, I apologize. As Oscar noted the "L'/p" reference is to slenderness ratios and how that works with the column loads. And the "equivalent round tube" is a reference to the round tube (same wall thickness) that would react the same as the str...

Richard Roller

Ken Perkins Piet, N34KP, has the following sizes of lift/cabane struts. All struts are SAE 4130 steel streamline tubes. forward and aft lift struts: 2.023" x .857", .049 wall thickness, ERT* 1.5 & 1.0 cabane struts: 1.685" x .714", .049 wall thickness, ERT 1.25 & .75 caba...

Richard Roller

Regular old 4130 struts are used, as in 34KP
A lot of people are using the extruded aluminum struts from Carlsons, they work well and save some weight.

The struts in the plans are not available anymore.

Richard Roller

Yes. While I was still working on large a/c we always used the aviation equivalent to your polysulfides, patches, hardware, etc. When I worked small a/c you didn't see it much, except in fuel tank areas.

Personally, I think it would be a good idea on a wood a/c.

Richard Roller

I'm sure you noticed, but Ken didn't use the steel straps from side to side (fitting to fitting) shown on the plans. He didn't think them necessary. This last spring while I was finishing the repair to the tail longeron, I pulled the landing gear/lift strut attach fitting bolts out, one at a time. T...

Richard Roller

Phone photos. When clicked on they will be upright. This is the right side, forward strut attach point.

Richard Roller

My mistake! Yes, you DO want your strut tabs lined up with the strut angle! N34KP has it's strut tabs on the fuselage bent to line up with the actual strut angle. I was just looking at my set of plans and I don't see any angle noted. Ken bent his to the angle needed to be in line with the struts, as...

Richard Roller

N34KP has the strut attach fittings as drawn on the plans, with plywood strips on either side of them, That is how Ken Perkins built it. It's worked fine for 20+ years now. Personally, when I built one I will attach them inline with the struts.

Richard Roller

John, I'm sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I've been through the digital pictures I have of Brodhead and have found none that would help you. I know I've taken some, but they must be on film and I have no idea where they might be. I did find some on the West Coast Piet site just by browsi...

Richard Roller

Good deal!

Richard Roller

A good time of the year to enjoy nature. Nice looking a/c!

Richard Roller

Lots of variations in Piet construction. N34KP (built from Pietenpol plans, short, wood fuselage) has tail wheel steering working off the rudder, with a wooden rudder structure.

Pat, the picture is upside down again, can you fix it?

**This is FIXED. I blame the Russians. -pjw

Richard Roller

Thanks Ken. I have done something similar in the past on another project for a friend. We just used a steel fitting (brass would work) out of the master cylinder, soldered shut, then drilled a hole through with a #50 drill.

Richard Roller

I'm ordering extrusions for the brake installation. I have considered putting restrictions in the brake lines, to slow down the application time a little. The reason is that I don't plan on reworking the landing gear V's at this time and N34KP is built to the plans. Which means the wheels are to far...

Richard Roller

Yes Oscar. I'm curious about that tail myself.

Richard Roller

I have seen several Piets with 3 ft center sections. Personally, that is what I plan for my project. Which, I admit, has not been started.

Richard Roller

Is it a Pietenpol or a Grega?

Richard Roller

I fly N34KP, which has been flying since 2000. I've never had any problems with vertical stab flutter or vibration. I am curious about your statement where you are considering moving one set of wires forward. I'm curious if the airframe is built to the plans in that respect. Do the forward set of wi...

Richard Roller

I've seen several installations with the washer pump. I'll look ar my pictures and see if I have any of the washer pump installed.

Richard Roller

We seem to vary from .5" to 1.0" between what you measured and what I drew. The drawing is of the Piet plans. I did put my wife in the rear cockpit to get the measurements that I used. I'm sure it will work out okay.

Richard Roller

Thanks Oscar. I appreciate the help.

Richard Roller

I would appreciate the help Oscar. It is better to measure twice and drill once!

Richard Roller

wood piet brake master installation.jpg This is what I've come up with for the brake master cylinders. These are Cleveland master that I happened to have, model #10-55. I bought these back in the 80's, for another project that never came off. I got my wife into the rear cockpit and had her put her ...

Richard Roller

Ken. I'm not sure I could use your set up. I have the rudder bar. It is a sharp looking installation!

Richard Roller

Thanks Oscar. The picture is similar to one I've taken of Lowell Franks Piet.

Richard Roller

What would be Bill Rewey style brakes?

Richard Roller

No preference. I have toe brake actuators on hand, but I have no problem with heel brakes.

Richard Roller

Good morning everyone. I'm sure most are aware that N34KP was damaged a year ago July. At that time it was the latest incident due to not having brakes, and there are many. So, I'm putting brakes on the old bird this coming winter. I've bought a set of Matco wheels and brakes that will suit my needs...

Richard Roller

I've flown 34KP with a broke crankshaft. It comes down pretty fast dead stick. I was fortunate to have a nice stunted soy bean field below me. I didn't have a whole lot of time, being low (6 or 7 hundred feet). Like they always say "fly the plane", worry about other things later.

Richard Roller

I've seen the wing raised anywhere from 2 to 4 inches. It's pretty common.

Richard Roller

Not a good idea at all. Twisted one way you open the lay of the cable and expose the insides to grit and dirt. The other way you tighten the twist and with the flight loads overstress the cable.

Richard Roller

I'm also with Falcon/Global. I just renewed and it was $495 (it went up $45), no hull. Covers airport liability and passenger medical.

I'd already had a tail dragger endorsement (7AC Champ) and time in the a/c, so no duel was required.

Richard Roller

Spark6. A great story! I enjoyed it very much. I've flown a model A powered Piet (N34KP) 400 miles to Brodhead from Kansas many times. Sometimes coming home against the winds it would take over 8 hrs. of flying time, rocking and rolling in 100° temperatures, to get home. Still, I loved the flights. ...

Richard Roller

I just looked at my plans for the short fuselage. The axles are 9.5" behind the wing leading edge, with vertical cabanes. That would be for no brakes. N34KP is built this way. Edit time. I dug out N34KP's weight and balance. The actual axle position on 34KP is .25" forward of the location ...

Richard Roller

Sure you can. If you like I can go out and take dedicated photos of the installation and pass them on to you.

Richard Roller

Glad to hear this, Oscar. I've been using mine several times a week. So far the ropes have varied from 1/4" cotton to 3/4" nylon. All good so far and MUCH easier on my peace of mind.

Richard Roller

Sounds cool. Good luck!

Richard Roller

Up front, my experience is with the model A powered Air Camper. The airplanes have a tendency to be tail heavy, especially with today's "heavier" pilots. The Piet I fly has had its engine moved forward 7 inches because of the c.g. I'm not sure you could get a proper c.g. with the Hirth eng...

Richard Roller

I have to make sure that the rope is not over the pivot point of the release arm, or it wont let go.

Richard Roller

Hey everybody. I've put just over 7 hrs on 34KP since the repair. I opened up the tail a few days ago and did a close inspection of the repair area. Everything looks good. I've been flying in some horrible temps and rough air and all the parts are staying where they should. Great! Oscar, the tail ti...

Richard Roller

I forgot to post. I've flown N34KP several times now, flies fine. The fabric stayed on! I have to get up early to beat the heat.

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