Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: dannymac
Danny,I made my wheels from 18" motorcycle rims ( 3"x18") tires. Made a hub from4130 tubing with end plates fabricated and welded to the shoulder machinedon each end. Then found Harley Davidson spoke sets to match. Got a thumbsup from my AP. His only concern was the shoulder on the spoke near the hub.But if you look at the front wheel of a "Hawg", this is what they have.I have pics on AirCamper.org. Check out...http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/w ... wheel3.jpg The white bushing is just a temp. that I made out of PVC water pipefitting , so I could true the wheel on the 11/2" axle shaft. Making brassbushings now.If anyone is interested I can post hub mat'l sizes, spoke kit #.s etc. I'llhave brakes fitted to them before the Piet is done.walt-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Fw: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Michael Conkling
I made mine from 3"x18" rims, with H.D. spokes and hub made out of 4130.My AP gave a thumbs up.The pics are onhttp://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbehub1. ... 3.jpgWhite bushings are temp. made out of PVC pipe fitting, I'm making brass now,and I will fit brakes before Piet completion.walt-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Ken Hannan
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels>>Hi Brent:>> I'm going to burglarize your conversation here, as I have gone thruthe>>process of building some "tall" wheels. It really isn't all thatdifficult.>>Brent- Warren's description is very similar to my story. (but I'll bore>you with mine anyway....:)>>I searched many, many motorcycle shops to find 19" aluminum rims>with 40 spoke holes as opposed to the more common 32 I think it is now.>(ps- you can use 17, 18, ....21" wheels.) I found a pair of Borranni>made in Italy 19 x 3.5 undrilled alum. rims for $ 40 each. I followed>a similar description found in one of the BPA newsletters by Howard>Henderson or Grant about Howard on how to fabricate hubs.>I welded up two stainless 1/8" thick discs to a stainless tube 6" wide>and pressed in two oilite impregnated flanged bushings from Bearings>Incorporated. (now called something else) I took the hubs and>rims back to the cycle shop with a sketch of both. The owner faxed>my sketch (with all my dimensions on there) to Buchannen's Cycle>shop in CA. I specified 8 or 9 gauge stainless spokes similar to>Warren. You can get steel, chromed, or stainless...spokes.>A dangerous thing is to make your own spokes by cutting down used>spokes and threading them. Cycle threads are 'rolled' into the>material, not cut. This process avoids the weak stress risers you get>when you cut threads by hand. It wasn't cheap to have spokes made>but I've bashed that plane in pretty good 2 or three times without a hint>of ill effect. (except on my passengers, of course :)) Try not to>cheeze-out on your axle wall thickness either...I forget what it is, but>it feels too heavy to your senses. (.17 or .20"?) Once my spokes>arrived the cycle shop couldn't use their lacing jig to do my wide 6">hubs so he gave me some pointers and home I went. Buchannen's>provides you with a thread lubricant, and specific instructions on>some items, but the rest was my problem. It took about 2 hours>per wheel to lace and true them up.>It was pretty much trial and error with the help of a dial indicator I>borrowed from work one eve. Actually your eye is a super natural>dial indicator too.> Back to the cycle shop and>they put a big flat wide black rubber band around the rim base to>protect the inner tube from the protruding threads poking thru.>On advice from the cycle shop I ground all of my threads down>to the nipple on that side and put duct tape over each one before the>rubber 'band' when on. Nice and smooth. More work, but less>headaches later. Then they mounted the tires and tubes and off I>went. I spent approx. $650 total. For those with more money>Buchannens' will make you up a set with Sun Alum. rims I believe>for around $ 1,200. I've seen them and they are very, very nice.>(but $$) You can get used cycle rims with brakes and all too. Brian>Kenney in Canada has them and they have worked fine for him for>many years. I've heard the reason airplane builders of old designed>wide hubs was to take the side loads imposed by pilots like me in a>crosswind or groundloop. Too narrow or skinny spokes can fold over like an>umbrella in a strong wind.>The tire selection was easy- I copied Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy>tires called Avon Speedmaster's. I'm told you might not be able to>get that tread design anymore. J.C. Whitney shows lots of different>cycle replacement tire tread patterns too. I just looked thru the>catalog the cycle shop owner had and picked the pair I wanted.>He ordered them and a few days later I was in business.>The cycle wheels aren't as cushy as the low pressure round tires,>but they aren't that bad. I started with 32psi and tinkered with>pressures. I found about 26 lbs. is just right. There is a danger>by going too low though: the tire could slip on touchdown on>pavement and slide the inner-tube with it--shearing off your valve>stem causing an instant flat.>One thing is true: we all like the Piet design very much, but I had a>weak spot in me for one with tall spoked rims.>>ps- I see in photos that John Greenlee has some nice looking spoked>rims and tires. Yu-whooo. John, would you like to describe any of>that ?>>pss- Brent's initial question made me laugh when I thought of>a wise-guy answer- Q: What are your wheels made of ?">>Hope this helps some,>Mike C.>________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Lee L. Schiek"
>Hi Brent:> I'm going to burglarize your conversation here, as I have gone thru the>process of building some "tall" wheels. It really isn't all that difficult.Brent- Warren's description is very similar to my story. (but I'll bore you with mine anyway....:)I searched many, many motorcycle shops to find 19" aluminum rimswith 40 spoke holes as opposed to the more common 32 I think it is now.(ps- you can use 17, 18, ....21" wheels.) I found a pair of Borrannimade in Italy 19 x 3.5 undrilled alum. rims for $ 40 each. I followeda similar description found in one of the BPA newsletters by HowardHenderson or Grant about Howard on how to fabricate hubs.I welded up two stainless 1/8" thick discs to a stainless tube 6" wideand pressed in two oilite impregnated flanged bushings from BearingsIncorporated. (now called something else) I took the hubs andrims back to the cycle shop with a sketch of both. The owner faxedmy sketch (with all my dimensions on there) to Buchannen's Cycleshop in CA. I specified 8 or 9 gauge stainless spokes similar to Warren. You can get steel, chromed, or stainless...spokes. A dangerous thing is to make your own spokes by cutting down usedspokes and threading them. Cycle threads are 'rolled' into the material, not cut. This process avoids the weak stress risers you getwhen you cut threads by hand. It wasn't cheap to have spokes madebut I've bashed that plane in pretty good 2 or three times without a hintof ill effect. (except on my passengers, of course :)) Try not to cheeze-out on your axle wall thickness either...I forget what it is, butit feels too heavy to your senses. (.17 or .20"?) Once my spokes arrived the cycle shop couldn't use their lacing jig to do my wide 6"hubs so he gave me some pointers and home I went. Buchannen'sprovides you with a thread lubricant, and specific instructions on some items, but the rest was my problem. It took about 2 hoursper wheel to lace and true them up. It was pretty much trial and error with the help of a dial indicator Iborrowed from work one eve. Actually your eye is a super naturaldial indicator too. Back to the cycle shop and they put a big flat wide black rubber band around the rim base to protect the inner tube from the protruding threads poking thru.On advice from the cycle shop I ground all of my threads downto the nipple on that side and put duct tape over each one before therubber 'band' when on. Nice and smooth. More work, but less headaches later. Then they mounted the tires and tubes and off I went. I spent approx. $650 total. For those with more moneyBuchannens' will make you up a set with Sun Alum. rims I believefor around $ 1,200. I've seen them and they are very, very nice.(but $$) You can get used cycle rims with brakes and all too. BrianKenney in Canada has them and they have worked fine for him formany years. I've heard the reason airplane builders of old designedwide hubs was to take the side loads imposed by pilots like me in a crosswind or groundloop. Too narrow or skinny spokes can fold over like anumbrella in a strong wind. The tire selection was easy- I copied Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsytires called Avon Speedmaster's. I'm told you might not be able toget that tread design anymore. J.C. Whitney shows lots of differentcycle replacement tire tread patterns too. I just looked thru the catalog the cycle shop owner had and picked the pair I wanted.He ordered them and a few days later I was in business.The cycle wheels aren't as cushy as the low pressure round tires,but they aren't that bad. I started with 32psi and tinkered with pressures. I found about 26 lbs. is just right. There is a dangerby going too low though: the tire could slip on touchdown on pavement and slide the inner-tube with it--shearing off your valvestem causing an instant flat.One thing is true: we all like the Piet design very much, but I had a weak spot in me for one with tall spoked rims.ps- I see in photos that John Greenlee has some nice looking spokedrims and tires. Yu-whooo. John, would you like to describe any ofthat ?pss- Brent's initial question made me laugh when I thought ofa wise-guy answer- Q: What are your wheels made of ?"Hope this helps some, Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
I'm glad you asked......Mine were done up from the Pavliga/Henderson design but made 'on the cheap'so to speak. The rims are an aftermarket Harley Davidson replacementsportster front rim. 21". The spokes are also a HD replacement part. Icut out the disks and organized all the materials for the hubs which werewelded up at a local machine shop. (He only charged me 35 bucks, but I bethe wouldn't do it again....) He not only welded up the hubs, but turned thebushings from stock I provided, etc....I got my wheels laced by this guy with LOTS of tattoos. I'm sure he has alast name but all I ever knew was Dody Mike. I know because it said so onone of his tattoos. He cut down the spokes and had the threads rolled bysome buddy of his.My tires started out as a Cheng Shin knobby moto-cross tire. I took autility knife and cut off the knobs, and then used a disk sander on my drillwith 40 grit paper until I had something resembling a Clincher. Eight toten hours per tire.The rims cost 45 bucks each if memory serves. The spokes were about thesame so we had 90 bucks each in rims and spokes. I don't remember what thehub materials cost but lets say fifty bucks (probably less.) Thirty fivefor machine work, one hundred for lacing and fourty five per tire. Doesthat come out to 455 or so? Wheel, tire, tube and air weigh 19 lbs. Icovered the wheels with fabric just before Brodhead so I'm sure they willweigh a few ounces more.I used the lightweight (1.7 oz) fabric but wonder whether the heavy weight(3.something oz) would have been better considering where the wheels dotheir work. At any rate HD products and accessories are available in anycolor desired so long as it is chromed. I figured chrome wheels would lookout of place on the Piet so I covered them. Besides, the covering issupposed to gain you 5 mph......John-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: walter evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels>Are the larger spoked wheels used on the camper in the original design>plans?......or should I be thinking of converting something like>motorcycle wheels? I'm afraid I'd have a lot to learn about>manufacturing my own. And what about brakes? I really enjoy the>appearance of the larger wheels.>________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: John Duprey
Are the larger spoked wheels used on the camper in the original designplans?......or should I be thinking of converting something likemotorcycle wheels? I'm afraid I'd have a lot to learn aboutmanufacturing my own. And what about brakes? I really enjoy theappearance of the larger wheels.________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Ed0248(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels> I agree Mike Cuy's video is worth viewing. His wheel design is>similar to what Frank Pavliga and Howard Henderson did on their beautiful>ships. Frank and Howard don't have brakes.> Another alternative is modified motorcycle wheels. The major>concern is side loads imposed on the wheels. I agree this could be a>problem with the "cub type" gear, less so with the straight axle.> What I did was copied from Brian Kenney. He and I used Honda>motorcycle rear wheels with large hubs and short spokes. The bearings>are pressed out, internal stiffeners reduced by machining to accomodate>the larger axle and bronze bushings placed in the bearing races. Brakes>are already there and stopping the axle rotation when applying brakes is>easy.> Brian made a sketch for me which I resketched (before my days of>computing) that I will gladly share with any list member who sends me>their snail mail off list.>Have fun!>Tom>________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: bowdler(at)juno.com
Mike Cuy used brakes from a go cart, his rims are Motorcycle and he madethe hubs. He reports it works well. I plan to do much the same thing.You might want to get his video, it shows what he did, also has a lot ofgreat tips and flying scenes. Well worth the $.John Dupreydannymac wrote:> > Are the larger spoked wheels used on the camper in the original design> plans?......or should I be thinking of converting something like> motorcycle wheels? I'm afraid I'd have a lot to learn about> manufacturing my own. And what about brakes? I really enjoy the> appearance of the larger wheels.________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By:>> Mike Lund
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels>Hi Mike!>>As a part-time bicycle mechanic trying to build an aeroplane(! :-), I would>say that MTB rims won't make a good wheels for a Peit. The spokes we use>on even MTB wheels are only 2mm dia. (.080 ) so if you go to a bigger>spoke, you could seriously weaken the rim. Also, the tires are only 2-2>1/2" wide on a 559mm rim (aka 22" bead seat dia. -- inflated dia of the>wheel is about 26 1/2" )>>Now, if you were making an Ultra-Piet, I could set you up with a neat set>of BMX "aero" freestyle rims ("flames" optional! ;-) that would be strong>enough!>>Sun Metal makes some very good Alloy bike & motorcycle rims -- and the>better "Hog" custom shops will have a spoke machine to cut & roll thread>your spokes to size. Lacing up your own wheels isn't too hard of a job -->you will need a simple frame to support the axle & let you gauge the>out-of-round, wobble & centering of the rim on the hub. (on a semi-related>note, I have some bits & pieces from a '46 T-Craft (tail feathers, etc that>use (we think) some 30's Harley spoke nipples for the tail brace wires -->the nipples are threaded #8-36UNF)>>Mike>Pretty Prairie, KS>>P.S. Sure seems like there are a lot of "Mike"s in this group! Well over>the national average I'll bet! Might have to go to "call signs"! ;-)>>----------
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Has anyone investigated some of the beefier mountain bike wheels- It mightsave some weight, and some of them take a hell of beating without damage onthe bikes- Probably need to bake a custom hub and shorter spokes. I'm stillquite a ways from needing to worry about it, but I'll be looking into thisfor my scout eventuallyMike________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: bowdler(at)juno.com
I did a similar thing. Used 21" motorcycle wheels with drum brakes. Theissue of side loading and wider hubs was addressed by making a new spokeflange for the side opposite the drum and extending the hub width. If youlook around you will find some dirt bikes use removable spoke flanges. TheNew spoke flange has a larger OD and allows the use of the original spokes.the hub is bored out to take 1.500" bronze bushings and the wheel rides on1.500" 4130 tube. The tube was machined for threaded hub nuts. The problemnow is to design a method of absorbing the axle rotation as the brakes areapplied. Mike Cuy's solution merits some study.John Mc-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
I agree Mike Cuy's video is worth viewing. His wheel design issimilar to what Frank Pavliga and Howard Henderson did on their beautifulships. Frank and Howard don't have brakes. Another alternative is modified motorcycle wheels. The majorconcern is side loads imposed on the wheels. I agree this could be aproblem with the "cub type" gear, less so with the straight axle. What I did was copied from Brian Kenney. He and I used Hondamotorcycle rear wheels with large hubs and short spokes. The bearingsare pressed out, internal stiffeners reduced by machining to accomodatethe larger axle and bronze bushings placed in the bearing races. Brakesare already there and stopping the axle rotation when applying brakes iseasy. Brian made a sketch for me which I resketched (before my days ofcomputing) that I will gladly share with any list member who sends metheir snail mail off list.Have fun!Tom__________________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> Mike Lund
Hi Mike!As a part-time bicycle mechanic trying to build an aeroplane(! :-), I wouldsay that MTB rims won't make a good wheels for a Peit. The spokes we useon even MTB wheels are only 2mm dia. (.080 ) so if you go to a biggerspoke, you could seriously weaken the rim. Also, the tires are only 2-21/2" wide on a 559mm rim (aka 22" bead seat dia. -- inflated dia of thewheel is about 26 1/2" )Now, if you were making an Ultra-Piet, I could set you up with a neat setof BMX "aero" freestyle rims ("flames" optional! ;-) that would be strongenough!Sun Metal makes some very good Alloy bike & motorcycle rims -- and thebetter "Hog" custom shops will have a spoke machine to cut & roll threadyour spokes to size. Lacing up your own wheels isn't too hard of a job --you will need a simple frame to support the axle & let you gauge theout-of-round, wobble & centering of the rim on the hub. (on a semi-relatednote, I have some bits & pieces from a '46 T-Craft (tail feathers, etc thatuse (we think) some 30's Harley spoke nipples for the tail brace wires --the nipples are threaded #8-36UNF)MikePretty Prairie, KSP.S. Sure seems like there are a lot of "Mike"s in this group! Well overthe national average I'll bet! Might have to go to "call signs"! ;-)
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: robert hensarling
As far as axle rotation with DRUM brakes goes, Mike Cuy's methodworks but there is an easier way. (Mike has disc brakes and needs to stopaxle rotation as the brake apparatus is welded to his axle) Brian Kenney used the part of the brake plate that normallyattaches to the motorcycle frame (rear wheels) and attached a cable to itwhich connects to a piece of tubing attached with a strap to the front ofthe ash piece on the bottom of the wood gear. When the brakes areapplied the cable holds the brake plate in place and the wheel stops. The axle is held pretty tightly in place by the bungees anyway. For those who expressed an interest in my sketch of Brian's method,they'll be in the mail in a few days. In the mean time for those whoasked the wheels come from a mid 70's Honda 360. They are rear wheelsand were obtained at a motorcycle "junkyard". The larger hub gives thema little different look. Have fun!Tom__________________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: bowdler(at)juno.com [SMTP:bowdler(at)juno.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked WheelsWould love to have your sketch, thank you for making it available. I amjust starting the "pietenpol path" and am gathering all info I can. I havemy "A" stripped and ready for assembly. Thanks again. Chad Johnson, 1307Eastmoor Drive, McPherson, Kansas, 67460.-----Original Message-----________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy (by way of Michael D Cuy )
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked WheelsWould love to have your sketch, thank you for making it available. I amjust starting the "pietenpol path" and am gathering all info I can. Ihavemy "A" stripped and ready for assembly. Thanks again. Chad Johnson,1307Eastmoor Drive, McPherson, Kansas, 67460.-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: bowdler(at)juno.com [SMTP:bowdler(at)juno.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked WheelsWould love to have your sketch, thank you for making it available. I amjust starting the "pietenpol path" and am gathering all info I can. I havemy "A" stripped and ready for assembly. Thanks again. Chad Johnson, 1307Eastmoor Drive, McPherson, Kansas, 67460.-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked WheelsWould love to have your sketch, thank you for making it available. I amjust starting the "pietenpol path" and am gathering all info I can. Ihavemy "A" stripped and ready for assembly. Thanks again. Chad Johnson,1307Eastmoor Drive, McPherson, Kansas, 67460.-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
Would love to have your sketch, thank you for making it available. I amjust starting the "pietenpol path" and am gathering all info I can. Ihave my "A" stripped and ready for assembly. Thanks again. ChadJohnson, 1307 Eastmoor Drive, McPherson, Kansas, 67460.-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By:> bowdler(at)juno.com [SMTP:bowdler(at)juno.com]
Any chance you could scan it for posting on AirCamper.org? Richard--- Chad Johnson wrote:> Would love to have your sketch, thank you for making it available. I> am just starting the "pietenpol path" and am gathering all info I> can. I have my "A" stripped and ready for assembly. Thanks again. > Chad Johnson, 1307 Eastmoor Drive, McPherson, Kansas, 67460.> > -----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Michael Cuy's video notes Buchanan Spokes as a reference for his wheels. Hadused themprior to seeing the tape for redoing my Honda motorcycle wheels as they are only3 miles fromme. They have moved to a new industrial park The current info is: Buchanan Spoke & Rim, Inc. 805 West 8th Street Azusa, CA. 91702 Phone: (626) 969-4655 Fax (626) 812-0243 They have a great catalogue of rim, hubs, etc. All high quality aftermarketstuff, and notcheap. They charged me $1.00 each for 9 gauge stainless spokes and nipples (will pull1,000 poundseach!) for $36.00, plus $54.00 labor to lace and true each wheel. Paid $10.00each at amotorcycle salvage yard, polished them out with Mothers Mag & Aluminum Polish ($7.50)and putin new bearings and brake pads. Hub came with an arm to prevent brake rotationthat can easilybe affixed to the gear. Note: There are a LOT more choices for tires if you 18" rims.Warren________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: bowdler(at)juno.com
Robert, Daniel, Mike and Earl, My sketch and description of Brian Kenney's Honda wire wheelconversion will be in the mail this morning. Any othes who want it I still have some copies or will make more. Send me your snail mail off list.Have fun!Tom__________________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Chad Johnson
Chad; How close are you to the Flint Hills area?Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Graham Hansen
Another thing to keep in mind when scavenging boneyards for motorcyclerims is that 36 spoke rims are FAR more common than 40 spoke rims.I discovered this after I had fabricated the hubs to Howard Hendersonsplans. If you really want 19" rims with 40 spokes look for the HondaGoldwings and big Kawasakis.Greg Cardinal>>> Warren Shoun 05/18 9:50 AM >>> Michael Cuy's video notes Buchanan Spokes as a reference for hiswheels. Had used themprior to seeing the tape for redoing my Honda motorcycle wheels as theyare only 3 miles fromme. They have moved to a new industrial park The current info is: Buchanan Spoke & Rim, Inc. 805 West 8th Street Azusa, CA. 91702 Phone: (626) 969-4655 Fax (626) 812-0243 They have a great catalogue of rim, hubs, etc. All high qualityaftermarket stuff, and notcheap. They charged me $1.00 each for 9 gauge stainless spokes and nipples(will pull 1,000 poundseach!) for $36.00, plus $54.00 labor to lace and true each wheel. Paid$10.00 each at amotorcycle salvage yard, polished them out with Mothers Mag & AluminumPolish ($7.50) and putin new bearings and brake pads. Hub came with an arm to prevent brakerotation that can easilybe affixed to the gear. Note: There are a LOT more choices for tires if you 18" rims.Warren________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Earl Myers [SMTP:allaire(at)raex.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked WheelsEarl,I am approx 1hr drive or so. Im about 30 miles south of Salina, Ks if youknow where that is. How about you? I assume your a piet builder too?chad-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Earl Myers [SMTP:allaire(at)raex.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked WheelsEarl,I am approx 1hr drive or so. Im about 30 miles south of Salina, Ks ifyouknow where that is. How about you? I assume your a piet builder too?chad-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

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Original Posted By: Earl Myers [SMTP:allaire(at)raex.com]
Earl, I am approx 1hr drive or so. Im about 30 miles south of Salina, Ks ifyou know where that is. How about you? I assume your a piet buildertoo?chad-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Chad Johnson
I live in Ohio. I mentioned this because there is a guy building a piet thatI correspond with not on the Piet Chat group that lives in Salina by thename of Dick Schlaefli. His E-mail is pegndick(at)flinthills.com. He built awing turnover structure from my "drawings" so he must be building a onepiece wing. Might want to give him a jingle, er beep and say hi. He and hiswife are very nice. I met them at Broadhead last year. Good people! I have a Piet Scout about done powered by a Ford Model "A" engine. AnAircamper is on the list too as well as others. The Scout was #4 built butis the first to be completed. It has custom wire wheels ($). There areseveral ways to build wire wheels and I have hub drawings, all the customsources to get em done plus watch the Piet group for their input. OtherPiets up here with wire wheels just use motorcycle rims and hubs from thecycle junk yard. Allready have brakes on them and so forth. Be glad to helpyou with anything you need!Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Earl Myers [SMTP:allaire(at)raex.com]
Thanks Earl, I will look Mr. Schlaefli up and you can count on my askingquestions. My intent is to biuld a pure piet with just a littlemodification to the A engine to get a little more horses. Anysuggestions on what types of radiatiors to keep my eyes open for? Thanks again Earl and happy flying.Chad.-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Larry Neal
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels>Hi Michael>>About your suggestion on the Ultra Piet/ MTB wheels- ther's about 10#>difference (and the originality) between a scout and an Ultra..... How much>weight and $ can you save me ?>>Mike>>________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: John Greenlee
Hi MichaelAbout your suggestion on the Ultra Piet/ MTB wheels- ther's about 10#difference (and the originality) between a scout and an Ultra..... How muchweight and $ can you save me ?Mike________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "CraigAho"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 'both men are master craftsman'Steve-- well said. I know a local guy who cranks out award winning work but his shop is a shambles yet he knowswhere every nut, bolt, and document is. He's owned his own airport for more than 50 years and still does show-stoppingwork in his 80's.My good friend Bill Klosz took a look at my tools and basement when I finished my airplane and he said 'how didyou make such a nice looking airplane with such junkie tools?'both men are master craftsmen. The "sloppy" one has the greater knowledge.Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: > raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
If I am remembering correctly I first put the tire on and then cut a piece of fabric out slightly larger in diam. than the rim and pushed the tire bead back brushed in some glue and tucked the fabric in working my way around the rim. I also glued to the wood spacer I applied to my hub. Later I shrunk the fabric and cut out the axel hole. that was all there was to it. Craig
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: > raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
Forgot to mention that the fabric is installed before inflating the tire. I know this seems obvious but just in case. Craig
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> > raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
Thanks for the description, Craig. I have always thought it was some difficult system of making discs, mounting them, etc. I think the covered (disc) wheels just look so authentic.Thanks again.Ray Krause Sent from my iPadOn Apr 10, 2013, at 2:32 PM, Craig Aho wrote:> If I am remembering correctly I first put the tire on and then cut a piece of fabric out slightly larger in diam. than the rim and pushed the tire bead back brushed in some glue and tucked the fabric in working my way around the rim. I also glued to the wood spacer I applied to my hub. Later I shrunk the fabric and cut out the axel hole. that was all there was to it.> > Craig>
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> > raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
Got it.Thanks again,RaySent from my iPadOn Apr 10, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Craig Aho wrote:> Forgot to mention that the fabric is installed before inflating the tire. I know this seems obvious but just in case.> > Craig>
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Pietenpol-List: Re: rudder bar stops

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "tools"
I believe it was Clif who posted some nice pix of his rudder bar, cables, and associateddetails in that area. His hand-shaped wooden rudder bar stops wereincluded. I would consider stops to be essential. Besides the fact that therudder *will* strike the elevators if the rudder bar is permitted to travel toits full extents, the other problem is that the pilot's feet AND the rudder barcan contact the front seat plywood upright support if there are no stops. Ask me how I know... I'm getting ready to repair a separation of the plywood fromthe floor x-member due to my shoe pushing the plywood to the point of failureat the glue joint.You talk about a pain to get in there and make a repair... working bent over theedge of the front cockpit isn't too easy, especially if you enjoy craft microbrewales and stouts and your midsection shows it. Like tools mentioned, handtools are really the only way to carefully remove the damaged work in theseareas and then shape replacements, but those oscillating multi-tools could possiblyused to advantage in situations like this IF one had good control of thetool and was slow and patient.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rudder bar stops
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Pietenpol-List: Re: rudder bar stops

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "tools"
Those oscillating multi tools are new to me and deserve come careful consideration.I believe they are mostly going to reduce some effort on large jobs, likecutting door jambs and such for hardwood flooring installations.The "one of" jobs like in airplane repairs and building are still probably bestsuited for a decent selection of hand tools.Still, just recently saw the newer generation of those things and am really intrigued.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rudder bar stops
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Pietenpol-List: Re: rudder bar stops

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "tools"
By the way... craft micro brews and such... YA, really enjoy them! Been an allgrain brewer for many years, but finally upgrading to trying a heat exchangerecirculating mash system. I have a Brutus 10 in the works...Was thinking of brewing a special brew for Brodhead if there's interest in such.Can either bottle it or just have it available on tap (easier). Just threw a Creme Brulee Stout clone in the fermenter!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rudder bar stops
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
on the faces of my hubs I cut a 1/4 or 3/8 thick plywood donut and glued that to the hub. That kept the fabric off the spoke heads and gave a smoth appearance plus it served as a spacer for the brake drum. I know that I have a couple more photos somewhere and I will try to post later today. Craig
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spoked WheelsGreat idea, I'am going to do itMario Giacummo. -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- /...- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - .2013/4/11 Craig Aho > on the faces of my hubs I cut a 1/4 or 3/8 thick plywood donut and glued> that to the hub. That kept the fabric off the spoke heads and gave a smoth> appearance plus it served as a spacer for the brake drum. I know that I> have a couple more photos somewhere and I will try to post later today.>> Craig>>> ------------------------------
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "CraigAho"
Ken, I only get my Piet digest once a day so didn't see your post until today!Too bad, would have loved to have helpedDSent from my iPhone________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Craig Aho
I went out in the garage and took a couple of photos, the wood disc is 5/16" thickand one inside edge is beveled to lay flat and over the welds. Also the disclays inside the spoke heads. Worked great on my original wheels which I amdismantling with some struggle since the nipples have been on tight for at least19yrs. soaking them with penetrating fluid.CraigRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________
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> Pietenpol-List: Idea for Aho's new paint scheme

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
That does sound good as well=2C My NX40772 was Black and Cream so kind of close. It will be a while before I get to that point but in painting wheels and fittings etc. I would like to have an idea so I can paint them accordingly. So far if I stick with painting them black I am pretty neutral. So many of the builders have done such nice work it really inspires one. Craig > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Idea for Aho's new paint scheme
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Sun rims and Avon Speedmaster tires

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Craig,Thanks for all the info and your extra work to answer my questions. I am savingthis and will be doing basically the same thing.Ray Krause Sent from my iPadOn Apr 11, 2013, at 8:19 AM, "CraigAho" wrote:> > I went out in the garage and took a couple of photos, the wood disc is 5/16"thick and one inside edge is beveled to lay flat and over the welds. Also thedisc lays inside the spoke heads. Worked great on my original wheels which I amdismantling with some struggle since the nipples have been on tight for at least19yrs. soaking them with penetrating fluid.> > Craig> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 441#398441> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00840_100.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00839_398.jpg> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sun rims and Avon Speedmaster tires
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea for Aho's new paint scheme

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
I have to admit that I like these for a variety of reasons... Of course I've looked closely at your airplane, and Jack's, and Larry Williams',and Gary's, and FBG, and, well, you know... the same approach we have all taken. I really like the overall stance of FBG, but I also like the wide look of the straightaxle gear. Honestly, the one that I liked the most when I first got tosee these beauties in person was Don Emch's... he offered to let me sit in itmy first year at Brodhead... no way... I wasn't going to be the guy who puthis foot through the floor. Now that I know a little more about how they arebuilt, I feel kind of dumb for not trying it on for size. After hanging around The Markler for a while I really started to like the old-timeylook of his all black wheels, so I stole it! Noooo no... I didn't stealit in the Markle sense of the word, I just thought of how I might have a similarappearance without being a full on Markler. Anyhow, I like the black rimsand silver/gray spokes... I'm certain mine aren't the first like this, but itis what I settled on. Compromises... there are so many really cool ways to do things on this fabulousairplane that I guess we just have to choose what we consider to be the best,or whatever strikes our fancy at the time and go with it. I remember back when I first started building I was convinced that I would notuse spokes and I had my heart set on some sort of solid wheel mini-tundras likeRoger White had. I still like that option, but the spoked wheels just lookright to me at the time. I guess that is part of what makes this project an adventure.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing GearRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea for Aho's new paint scheme
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Craig Aho
Really Douwe? [Shocked] Getting the season started off on the right foot I see. LOL!--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing GearRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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> Pietenpol-List: Re: Sun rims and Avon Speedmaster tires

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> hangar10(at)cox.net
Mark do you have a photo of your wheels painted that way=2C I would enjoy seeing how they look. As I disassemble my old wheels I try to imagine how I will paint them. If I had lots of money I would have bright shinny brass plated spokes with black rims but I am on a very limited buget so paint is my option. Craig > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sun rims and Avon Speedmaster tires
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> Re: Spoked Wheels

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: walter evans
> > Has anyone investigated some of the beefier mountain bike wheels- Itmight> save some weight, and some of them take a hell of beating without damageon> the bikes- Probably need to bake a custom hub and shorter spokes. I'mstill> quite a ways from needing to worry about it, but I'll be looking intothis> for my scout eventually> > Mike________________________________________________________________________________
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