Pietenpol-List: Santiago's progress

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Pietenpol-List: Santiago's progress

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Does a Pietenpol really need washout for stability and control? Untwisted Hersheybar wings tend to have a stall progressing from the center out.On the other hand, fine tuning the twist along a Hershey bar wing can make thespanwise lift distribution closer to the ideal elliptical lift distribution, thusdecreasing the induced drag. Minimizing induced drag for a rectangular wingrequires a non-linear distribution of twist from root to tip, with the rateof change in incidence increasing as you go out toward the tip. Just to complicateour lives, the ideal twist distribution for minimum induced drag changeswith the coefficient of lift - the higher the lift coefficient, the more twistrequired - so you have to pick the flight speed at which you want to minimizethe induced drag. This will usually be the cruising speed since most planes spendthe vast majority of their lives at cruise.It's been quite a while since I looked at this issue and crunched any numbers,but if memory serves me correctly you could do the following and be close to theideal twist distribution for a Pietenpol in cruising flight: Looking only atthe semispan, i.e. one half of the wing, leave the inner part flat and put ina linear twist distribution over the last 1/3 or so of the semispan (startingjust outside the strut fittings would be OK) so that the wing tip incidenceis -1 or -2 deg (i.e. nose down) relative to the root.Especially for a Pietenpol limping along on a Model A engine, you would want togo with the -2 deg, or even -3 deg. A twist a little beyond the ideal for cruisespeed wouldn't significantly hurt at cruise speed (in effect just puttingyou back at about the same induced drag as the untwisted wing) but would helpat the higher lift coefficient for climb speed. (So we see that the Pietenpolcan be a legitimate example of picking a twist distribution to optimize for aspeed other than cruising speed.) If anybody is interested I can drag out the textbooks and papers on aerodynamicsand figure out the best twist distributions for cruise and for climb.--------Bill FrankRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Santiago's progressDate: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 07:34:35 -0400
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Mild Bill
That would be some great information to haveJohn------Original Message------
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Some progress made

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: santiago morete
WOW!!!Gene ----- Original Message -----
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:WestCoastPiet.com=0A-=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A =0A
=0A=0A =0A =0A=0AThat is how I made mine.=0A-=0AChrisSacramento, =0ACA
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it upIm a new user here, and while Im not trying to complain, it seems that some coulduse a lesson or two on how to keep the forums cleaned up. Lets get right toitThe preview button works great, use it. No need to post multiple threads askingif we can see something use the preview button if you can see it, we can too.If not, work on your post before you submit it, otherwise it will just clutterup the boards.Here is a big one photos! Of course we all like to share them, but how? Well,that depends on the location of the image file. If the image file you want toshare is on your PC (local, not on the web), you need to use the button inorder to upload your image. This will publish your photo in the large frame withthe file name, size and type up top. We have all seen em. On the other hand, if the photo you want to share is on the web, you can use the [img] command. For example, if I wanted to show a photo of me getting ready to fly a Piper Tomahawk, which I have posted on my web site, I would type (or copy and paste) [img]address[/img], or more specifically [img]***http://www.patriotdigital.net/images/Av ... 223494.JPG[/img]. Notice the *** at the beginning of the address, that is there in order to demonstrate the file path, if I take those opt, voila! That is the easiest and cleanest way to share images on the web. No need to saveand upload. If you find a photo you would like to share, right click on itand choose properties. You will find the address information there. Go aheadand test that feature on my photo above.Here is another problem starting new threads where a simple reply would suffice.In every thread you will see at the top and bottom of the posts. To replyto the comments in this post, click the reply button. If you click New Thread,you will start an entirely new thread that many will not realize is a responseto the other thread. It is best to keep conversation in the related thread.Only start a new thread if you have an original comment or question. Thisalso helps to improve the search function. For example, if I were to searchfor electrical system or transponder, I would likely receive a ton of results,many of which would be from the past week although all of those threads werein response to the same thread. It would be much more useful to keep all conversationon a particular thread within that thread. Im not saying that if someonewants to ask a question about a transponder that they be required to go backto the very first transponder thread and add to it not at all. If someonehas a question, by all means, ask away but anyone who wants to respond to thattopic, in reference to the original question or successive comment in the thread,they should do so in the existing thread dont start a new one just becauseyou want your post at the top of the Pietenpol list as many may not even knowwhat you are referring to. And, to my previous point, your response standingall alone in its own thread will appear as another separate thread when someoneperforms a search not very helpful. Anyhow, Im not trying to start an argument... hopefully this will cause some constructivedebate, or maybe even spur some questions. I am a member of severalforums. All are useful due to the fact that many of those that frequent toboards are very knowledgeable. When a new guy comes along he can answer a lotof his own questions but searching the boards. The less cluttered they are,the more useful they will be. Otherwise, people cant find answers if they exist,resulting in repetitive questions popping up over and over. Im sure thereare some common questions that many of you guys see often. Could be that theanswers to these are buried in tons of redundant threads on the subject. Here are a few easy commands that you may find handyinsert photo from web site = [img]web address[/img]insert photo from PC = use buttoninsert web address = web address (example ), or type the address in full, http://www.matronics.cominsert e-mail address = addressAnother thing that clutters up a thread repetitive quotes? I can understand aquote if you actually quote someone elses post, but why the repetitive quotes?Some of you have this mess in every reply Quote 1Quote 2Quote 3Quote 4etc.What is the purpose of this? Just to take up as much real estate as possible sono one misses your post? Just wondering. If there is no useful purpose, youought to clean it up. A signature is one thing a mess on the other hand isnot very appealing to readers.Just my 2 cents Ill stop for now. Ive been reading the forums for several weeksnow, and I hope to contribute more in the future while I construct my Piet,but I hope we can clean it up some in order to make it a more reader friendlyand useful forum.--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it upI=99m a new user here, and while I=99m not trying to complain, it seems that some could use a lesson or two on how to keep the forums cleaned up. Let=99s get right to itThe preview button works great, use it. No need to post multiple threads asking if =9Cwe can see something=9D use the preview button if you can see it, we can too. If not, work on your post before you submit it, otherwise it will just clutter up the boards.Here is a big one photos! Of course we all like to share them, but how? Well, that depends on the location of the image file. If the image file you want to share is on your PC (local, not on the web), you need to use the button in order to upload your image. This will publish your photo in the large frame with the file name, size and type up top. We have all seen em. On the other hand, if the photo you want to share is on the web, you can use the [img] command. For example, if I wanted to show a photo of me getting ready to fly a Piper Tomahawk, which I have posted on my web site, I would type (or copy and paste) [img]address[/img], or more specifically [img]***http://www.patriotdigital.net/images/Av ... 223494.JPG[/img]. Notice the *** at the beginning of the address, that is there in order to demonstrate the file path, if I take those opt, voila! That is the easiest and cleanest way to share images on the web. No need to save and upload. If you find a photo you would like to share, right click on it and choose properties. You will find the address information there.Go ahead and test that feature on my photo above.Here is another problem starting new threads where a simple reply would suffice. In every thread you will see at the top and bottom of the posts. To reply to the comments in this post, click the reply button. If you click New Thread, you will start an entirely new thread that many will not realize is a response to the other thread. It is best to keep conversation in the related thread. Only start a new thread if you have an original comment orquestion. This also helps to improve the search function. For example, if I were to search for =9Celectrical system=9D or =9Ctransponder=9D, I would likely receive a ton of results, many of which would be from the past week although all ofthose threads were in response to the same thread. It would be much more useful to keep all conversation on a particular thread within that thread. I=99m not saying that if someone wants to ask a question about a transponder thatthey be required to go back to the very first transponder thread and add to it not at all. If someone has a question, by all means, ask away but anyone who wants to respond to that topic, in reference to the original question or successive comment in the thread, they should do so in the existing threaddon=99t start a new one just because you want your post at the top of the Pietenpol list as many may not even know what you are referring to. And, to my previous point, your response standing all alone in its own thread will appear as another separate thread when someone performs a search not very helpful. Anyhow, I=99m not trying to start an argument... hopefully this will cause some constructive debate, or maybe even spur some questions. I am a member of several forums. All are useful due to the fact that many of those that frequent to boards are very knowledgeable. When a new guy comes along he can answer a lot of his own questions but searching the boards. The less cluttered they are, the more useful they will be. Otherwise, people can=99t find answers if they exist, resulting in repetitive questions popping up over and over. I=99m sure there are some common questions that many of you guys see often. Could be that the answers to these are buried in tons of redundant threads on the subject. Here are a few easy commands that you may find handyinsert photo from web site = [img]web address[/img]insert photo from PC = use buttoninsert web address = web address (example ), or type the address in full, http://www.matronics.cominsert e-mail address = addressAnother thing that clutters up a thread repetitive quotes? I can understand a quote if you actually quote someone else=99s post, but why the repetitive quotes? Some of you have this mess in every reply Quote 1Quote 2Quote 3Quote 4etc.What is the purpose of this? Just to take up as much real estate as possible so no one misses your post? Just wondering. If there is no useful purpose, you ought to clean it up. A signature is one thing a mess on the other hand is not very appealing to readers.Just my 2 cents I=99ll stop for now. I=99ve been reading the forums for several weeks now, and I hope to contribute more in the future while I construct my Piet, but I hope we can clean it up some in order to make it a more reader friendly and useful forum.--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ***Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid= ... od00000001)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up
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Pietenpol-List: Santiago's progress

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: shad bell
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Im a new user here, and while Im not trying to complain, it seems that some coulduse a lesson or two on how to keep the forums cleaned up. Lets get right toitThe preview button works great, use it. No need to post multiple threads askingif we can see something use the preview button if you can see it, we can too.If not, work on your post before you submit it, otherwise it will just clutterup the boards.Here is a big one photos! Of course we all like to share them, but how? Well,that depends on the location of the image file. If the image file you want toshare is on your PC (local, not on the web), you need to use the button inorder to upload your image. This will publish your photo in the large frame withthe file name, size and type up top. We have all seen em. On the other hand, if the photo you want to share is on the web, you can use the [img] command. For example, if I wanted to show a photo of me getting ready to fly a Piper Tomahawk, which I have posted on my web site, I would type (or copy and paste) [img]address[/img], or more specifically [img]***http://www.patriotdigital.net/images/Av ... 223494.JPG[/img]. Notice the *** at the beginning of the address, that is there in order to demonstrate the file path, if I take those opt, voila! That is the easiest and cleanest way to share images on the web. No need to saveand upload. If you find a photo you would like to share, right click on itand choose properties. You will find the address information there. Go aheadand test that feature on my photo above.Here is another problem starting new threads where a simple reply would suffice.In every thread you will see at the top and bottom of the posts. To replyto the comments in this post, click the reply button. If you click New Thread,you will start an entirely new thread that many will not realize is a responseto the other thread. It is best to keep conversation in the related thread.Only start a new thread if you have an original comment or question. Thisalso helps to improve the search function. For example, if I were to searchfor electrical system or transponder, I would likely receive a ton of results,many of which would be from the past week although all of those threads werein response to the same thread. It would be much more useful to keep all conversationon a particular thread within that thread. Im not saying that if someonewants to ask a question about a transponder that they be required to go backto the very first transponder thread and add to it not at all. If someonehas a question, by all means, ask away but anyone who wants to respond to thattopic, in reference to the original question or successive comment in the thread,they should do so in the existing thread dont start a new one just becauseyou want your post at the top of the Pietenpol list as many may not even knowwhat you are referring to. And, to my previous point, your response standingall alone in its own thread will appear as another separate thread when someoneperforms a search not very helpful. Anyhow, Im not trying to start an argument... hopefully this will cause some constructivedebate, or maybe even spur some questions. I am a member of severalforums. All are useful due to the fact that many of those that frequent toboards are very knowledgeable. When a new guy comes along he can answer a lotof his own questions but searching the boards. The less cluttered they are,the more useful they will be. Otherwise, people cant find answers if they exist,resulting in repetitive questions popping up over and over. Im sure thereare some common questions that many of you guys see often. Could be that theanswers to these are buried in tons of redundant threads on the subject. Here are a few easy commands that you may find handyinsert photo from web site = [img]web address[/img]insert photo from PC = use buttoninsert web address = web address (example ), or type the address in full, http://www.matronics.cominsert e-mail address = addressAnother thing that clutters up a thread repetitive quotes? I can understand aquote if you actually quote someone elses post, but why the repetitive quotes?Some of you have this mess in every reply Quote 1Quote 2Quote 3Quote 4etc.What is the purpose of this? Just to take up as much real estate as possible sono one misses your post? Just wondering. If there is no useful purpose, youought to clean it up. A signature is one thing a mess on the other hand isnot very appealing to readers.Just my 2 cents Ill stop for now. Ive been reading the forums for several weeksnow, and I hope to contribute more in the future while I construct my Piet,but I hope we can clean it up some in order to make it a more reader friendlyand useful forum.--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Lost the intent, what's this have to do with building and or flying a Piet?ThanksSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Joemotis(at)aol.com
It has nothing to do with building or flying a Piet, rather it has to do with providinga more useful resource to those that are building, discussing or flyinga Piet. Isn't that the purpose of this forum? I'm sure this etiquette couldbe applied to the entire Matronics Forum, but as a Piet builder I am more concernedabout the Pietenpol List, so I posted it here. Web forums are just another tool... used properly they can be valuable time savers,used improperly they can hinder, or be totally useless.--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it upNot a Damn thing."I=99m a new user here" Are you from the government and here to help also Mark?Joe MotisWorking on rudder cables and control sticks no archivosIn a message dated 3/23/2009 6:36:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, amsafetyc(at)aol.com writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: amsafetyc(at)aol.comLost the intent, what's this have to do with building and or flying a Piet?ThanksSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:
Wow! I've touched a nerve. Sen-Sa-Tive!No Joe, I'm not from the government, but I obviously would like to help. I don'tsee what the harm is in offering some advise on how we can keep things a littlemore pleasing to the eye. I mean heck, there were several recent "how doI do" posts, I just thought I'd present a little information on some of the morecommon methods of posting info, photos, etc. on a web forum. What's the bigdeal? I'm probably wasting my time explaining my reasoning as I suspect you are probablyjust a troll anyway. Troll = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_t ... at)aol.com wrote:> Not a Damn thing.> > "Im a new user here" Are you from the government and here to help also Mark?> > > Joe Motis> Working on rudder cables and control sticks no archivos--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Michael Groah
That is how I made mine.ChrisSacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message -----
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Michael Groah
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it upNo Mark,I am a Member of EAA 96 and am actually in the controls (rudder and elevator) stage of helping a fellow builder get his Piet flightworthy.Come on down to our hangar at Compton Woodley airport and have a look. Our chapter meetings are on the 3rd Saturday of the month.Or contact me off list and I will gladly send you some pictures of our Piet progressIn a message dated 3/23/2009 7:58:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hangar10(at)cox.net writes:I'm probably wasting my time explaining my reasoning as I suspect you are probably just a troll anyway. What EAA Chapter are you affiliated with?Have you started construction yet?Joe MotisEAA735730No Archivos**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid= ... od00000001)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:11:45 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
This is so poorly typed, I didn't even try to read it. Why don't you try again, this time taking a little more time and make its readable?Thank youGene----- Original Message -----
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Wayne Bressler
"Smile Son. Never disconcert the masses."John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800Madison, WI 53718Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Mar 24, 2009, at 5:26 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:>> My eyes stared to glaze over after the first two pages. :0(>> Dan Helsper> Popar Grove, IL> NX929DH>>________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Rob Hart
Let's remember our audience, here. This is a list about building and flying Pietenpol aiplanes, not about being web or forum savvy. Personally, I rather enjoy the somewhat chaotic nature of this list! The Pietenpol list has it's own very unique culture and is a colorful family of helpful individuals, not all of which are well versed in the ways of the Internet, and that's okay.Let's not worry about formatting and things like that, and enjoy airplanes and building.Welcome to the list.Wayne Bressler Jr.Got the plans and dreaming, raising a family in the meantime...Taildraggers, Inc.taildraggersinc.comSent from my iPhone>________________________________________________________________________________
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> Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> hangar10(at)cox.net
Hi MarkThe rest of us seem to find the Matronics web forum totally useful=3B grammar=2C spelling and etiqette faux pas included. Good luck building your Piet=3B this forum will be here for you=2C warts and all=2C to assist. Iff (syntax intended)=2C as you suggest=2C it's totally useless to you=2C again I say: good luck.Rob HartPerth=2C Western AustraliaVH-PTN (Reserved)> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > It has nothing to do with building or flying a Piet=2C rather it has to do with providing a more useful resource to those that are building=2C discussing or flying a Piet. Isn't that the purpose of this forum? I'm sure this etiquette could be applied to the entire Matronics Forum=2C but as a Piet builder I am more concerned about the Pietenpol List=2C so I posted it here. > > Web forums are just another tool... used properly they can be valuable time savers=2C used improperly they can hinder=2C or be totally useless.> > --------> Mark> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 898#235898> > > > > > > ============================================> > > _________________________________________________________________Looking for a place to manage all your online stuff? Explore the new Windows Live .http://www.microsoft.com/australia/wind ... ______Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 05:57:33 -0700 (PDT)
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