Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage

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RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout> Douwe,> > > > The macho stance is to just fly your Pietenpol with the technology > thatBernard had available - chart and compass. While it can > certainly be done> that way (I flew a J-3 Cub from Tennessee to Texas using just > that), it is> foolish to turn your back on anything that can make flying safer. > GPS is a> wonderful tool for increasing your situational awareness, and > thereforeincreasing safety. Just don't allow yourself to get too > dependent on it -> they can and do fail.> > > > I made a mount for my Garmin GPSMap 196 that attaches to the right > upperlongeron so it is out of the way and easy to see. I then use > a kneeboard> with a TripTik chart (a series of 5-1/2 x 8-1/2 portions of a > sectionalchart with my course printed on them). I can just turn > over each page as I> fly onto the next and can keep track of my progress in case the GPS > goesTango Uniform. I use Aeroplanner software to generate the > triptiks, but I> think there are several different companies out there that do the same> thing.> > > > Jack Phillips> > NX899JP> > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > Where I very nearly wiped out a DiamondStar DA-40 this evening when > 5 deer> ran across the runway as we were rolling out after landing. The > last one> missed the prop by less than a foot and then went UNDER the right > wingtip.> > > _____ >
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Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "Pietflyer1977"
Thanks for all the input! I will try and post a picture here of my plans if anyone has a idea of why they say 12'? No big deal but just makes me wonder whatelse is wrong and might be a problem after alot of work is complete. These aredated 1975, as someone had said they had but the length is different? Go figure.I am just starting this project and have / will have many more questionsI am sure. Any advise is appreicated. ThanksRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: shad bell
Hello, I am just getting started on building a Pietenpol and would like to getsome feed back from you guys good or bad. I am wanting to build a Piet to lookall original with a Model A engine, tall wheels, pioneer instruments, etc. 100%period correct other than a steel tubing fuselage using the steel plans fromthe Glider manual. I own a restoration shop and restore airplanes and cars fora living so I have all the tools, equipment and knowledge to build it. Thequestion is why do you not see them much? Just that it's easier to build a woodone? Is there any weight and balance problems, etc.? Has anyone ever built steeltubing tail feathers? Are there any drawings for steel tail feathers? Doesanyone know the weight difference compared to a wood one? Should anything elsebe changed with building a steel one? Engine, wing locations? The steel plansare not to detailed so I guess it's up to the builder to install stringers,bulkheads, seats, cowling as you see fit. Keeping it light as possible of course.Or are there any more detailed plans out there for a steel fuselage? I lookforward to hearing all the pro's and con's. ThanksRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:58:17 -0800 (PST)
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "tools"
Very strange. The location of the lift strut attachment isn't changed (79"), butthe length of the spar definitely is shorter. Seems like some kind of clippedwing. Almost as though someone modified the drawing. Yet, the lettering looksto be professionally done - not hand written. Your title block looks thesame as my print (drawn Jan 10, 1975, and revised Mar 13, 1982). The only thingthat looks different is that your print looks like a blueprint, whereas theprints that are sold today are large-format photocopies.Where did your plans come from? Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
Lots of questions!There's a member here, good friend, who bought a steel tube fuse, and it's probablyone of the most original to plans around. Jarheadpilot, aka Terry Hand,he'll pop in soon and is a good place to start asking questions,.Based on ALOT of reading, there's about 15 to 30 lbs to be saved with a steel tubefuse, don't know why there aren't more... Probably because of what you'vealready seen, not a lot of real support, which is the major advantage of a Piet.No, don't know of any steel tail feathers, though I'm sure there's quite a few.Honestly, I imagine some aluminum variant would be the way to go for weightsavings, ala some pop rivet homebuilts out there. Terry is thinking of doingsomething like that as well.,Tail weight saving is THE way to go. I have a very plans built short fuse woodplane (built by someone else who did NOT add anything aft) and it's got a fairamount of nose weight added to make things right.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:15:03 -0600
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
Mikee:How do you keep that 9V battery from living a short life? I have a similar littleportable deal, I think mine's a Sigtronics, but if I don't pull the 9V outof it after flight, it drains down pretty quickly. And yes, I know to turn thething off!My headset is a Pacific Coast Electronics "David Clark look-alike", not noise reducingbut pretty good nevertheless. And WAY affordable.The last couple of years we've flown Scout with old-timey WWII gear for cockpitcommunication. Leather flight helmets with built-in ear speakers and old carbonmicrophones with push buttons and coiled cords. You have to hold the mikesright up to your lips and shout into them, but it's kinda fun... "I SAY, I SAY-NAVIGATOR TO PILOT, TURN LEFT HEADING ZERO-NINER-FIVE. I REPEAT, ZERO-NINER-FIVE";o) I do it with a Brit accent to give it a little extra flair. Thepilot has to drop the mike while flying the airplane and then fumble for it whenhe gets a call from the front-seater, and we are NORDO so there isn't anybodyelse to talk to, but it beats hand signals and yelling into the wind.I love these airplanes.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
Having a good time building a steel-tube Piet here in Seattle... You are rightthat the details are not in the plans - so I have to make a lot of it up - yetthat is part of the gratification at times. I have posted progress in the pastso if you search under my name (Jake Schultz) you should find my past postings.Four years in and maybe halfway there.... 6 & 1/2 hours in the shop tonightworking on the walking beam bellcrank assy - very pleasant....--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 00:07:47 -0800
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
I've always wondered how Don did it ( and still does). Don you will have to bemy mentor. We came over to your place on Sunday but didn't see any avtivityso we flew over to Barber and scavenged around Franks's Piet's some more.Schedule the day this winter and I'll mark it on my calendar for sure.--------Fred KimPittsburgh, PaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Pietflyer1977
Oh, I don't know.... a steel fuselage on a 1929 Pietenpol with a Model A Ford..... just doesn't fit in my mind. It just seems too high-tech to me. When I chose the Pietenpol the wood fuse was one of the simple and charming parts of the design that attracted. That smell of freshly cut spruce... saw dust on the floor.....sweeping at the end of the day.... Besides, I remember reading somewhere that Bernerd actually preferred the wood (probably in the "lost" papers).Dan HelsperPuryear, TN.P.S. Ask Kevin Purtee his opinion of the wood fuselage....-----Original Message-----
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Steel tube fuselages were common enough in 1929. Did you ever look at aWaco Nine or a Travelair? Gene Rambo's 1927 Travelair 2000 has a nicewelded steel tube fuselage.Most Piets are wood because most people are more comfortable working withwood. If you've got the tools and skills to do it in steel, go for it. Itdoes require more thinking to make a steel tube fuselage, because you've gotto plan ahead and make brackets for every piece that will be attached to thefuselage. With wood you can just glue or screw something to the structure.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Piet family,Here is an update. Saturdays flight was canceled due to a poor weather prediction.Steve and Peter did go to the airport to do some final checks on the planeSaturday morning. They have put a fair amount of time on the engine whiletaxing it around over the last few weeks and decided it was time to do a fullpower two minute run up per William Wynn's recommendation. About one minute intoit the engine run, it started running rough and started to smoke. I didn'tget any other details than that. I don't know if it was blue or black smoke.They also said it lost compression in one of the cylinders. Anyway, Steve toldme yesterday that after some tear down they found it had an over heated piston.It will need to be replaced. I'm very confident that they will find the rootof the problem and when they get it corrected we will try again. Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
The last thing I want to do is be a discouragement to anybody. If a steel tube fuse is part of the dream, then of course you need to go after it. Don't let others opinions swerve you off course. After all, it is in the F&G plans. Ask Mike Perez. Now that is a man who knows his mind :O)Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
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Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" > what is the monthly cost for all these great things? Airlion> > > > ----- Original Message ----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I can vouch for the energy absorbing qualities of the wood fuselage... [Shocked] By all means build a metal tube fuselage and post what you learn here and on WestCoast Piet. Jake's been very helpful in sharing his experience with otherpotential metal fuselage builders.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
One thing to keep in mind regarding the steel tube fuselage is that it still hasa fair amount of wood on it. There's the turtledeck, and the seats, and thefloorboard, and the side fairings, and the panels, etc.I haven't taken the time to do the necessary calculations to do an honest comparison(and I have no plan to do so), but my gut tells me that the true weightsavings may not be quite "as advertised". Most builders who weigh their woodfuselages probably have all of the woodwork done when they plunk it on a scale,whereas with the steel tube fuselage, I can imagine a builder weighing it assoon as the metalwork is done, but without all of the woodwork attached.Then again, as I said, I haven't actually done any calculations. This is justa hunch. I don't doubt that there are some weight savings to be gained with thesteel tube fuselage, but I bet it isn't 30 pounds.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Bill,I think most, if not all guys building a Piet are smart enough to realize thatto weigh a steel tube fuselage only and compare it to a wooden fuselage with cabanes,turtledeck, tail feathers, etc is an apples to oranges comparison thathas no value.If someone has a wooden fuselage with the main gear and tail wheel only that wouldlike to weigh their project and I could have Wiliam Wynne weigh mine, thatmight be an interesting comparison. I don't think that to do such a comparisonwould be a 'urinating competition' but would simply be an interesting exercise.Just a thought.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Flottorp Prop

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Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Cabanes?... tailfeathers?...Terry, all I was suggesting was that for a proper comparison, both fuselages shouldbe completed to the same degree. THAT is the only way to avoid an applesto oranges comparison. When the wooden fuselage gets built, the seats, floorboards,turtledeck are all most likely glued in, so those items (or the weightof the wood required to add them) should be added to the weight of the steelfuselage. The fuselages being weighed should also be "similar" fuselages, i.e.both "short" or "long" fuselages, to produce meaningful results.In comparing weights of completed fuselages, one has to take into account all ofthe details. Often I have read about fuselage weights that include the controlsystem, since it isn't exactly easy to remove , once it is installed. So does your fuselage have seats, floorboards, and turtledeck installed? Becauseanyone building a wood fuselage will likely have those items glued on (butprobably not the landing gear and tailwheel). Just to keep the exercise interesting,and urine-free.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flottorp Prop
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: airlion
Gerry: I asked my guru about this combination and here's his reply:"I had that combination on the J-4 Cub with the A-65 until one of the guys putit over on its nose. The Flottorp prop we had was fixed pitch with either 1/8"or 1/4" laminations. Really nice prop to fly. Smooth and performed a bit betterthan the Sensenich we replaced it with. I really liked the prop. 50" pitchis going to be a bit coarse for an A-75, but looking at the Flottorp applicationchart, the 72x50 prop was used on the A-65 applications. The A-75s used thesame prop with a 46" pitch. So, if he doesn't mind turning the engine a bit slowerlike an A-65 (which the A-75 will happily do), it will work OK. Should performjust fine in a Piet, but having the capability to turn the engine up abit would increase the climb. The good news here is that the 72x50 Flottorp propshould be easy to sell on something like the J3-Cub forum and should sell forat least enough to cover buying a decent prop of the correct pitch. Those thatare in the know on the Cub forum know that the Flottorp prop is a superiorprop to its Sensenich counterpart from that day. If I had a Cub with an A-65,I'd be sending him an offer for the prop.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:59:57 -0800 (PST)
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> Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout

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Original Posted By: airlion
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
My point exactly. As I said before-"If someone has a wooden fuselage with the main gear and tail wheel only that wouldlike to weigh their project and I could have Wiliam Wynne weigh mine, thatmight be an interesting comparison. I don't think that to do such a comparisonwould be a 'urinating competition' but would simply be an interesting exercise."That would make them the same basic configuration, and, thus, more of an applesto apples comparison. If there is no one that has a wood fuselage in that configuration,then it would not be an accurate comparison. Like I said.The reality is that if it is a long fuselage then it will be an apples to orangescomparison any way as the steel tube fuselage is a short fuselage.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
My final comments on this matter:Terry, you didn't say whether your fuselage has any of the woodwork in place. You didn't say whether the forward coaming is in place. You didn't say what typeof landing gear you have installed, and you didn't say what type of tailwheelyou have installed. So, it's going to be pretty hard for anyone to know whetherthey have an apple or an orange.Having said that, it's a pretty safe bet that NOBODY is going to have a woodenfuselage (short or long) without floorboards, seats or turtledeck, but WITH allof the other wood (including the side paneling) installed, and with landinggear and tailwheel mounted. They just don't get built that way.But, I'd still like to know how the weight of the steel tube fuselage actuallycompares against the weight of the all wood fuselage. Probably the best way wouldbe to weigh your steel fuselage after you have added all the wooden bitsto it, and then ask for comparisons with wooden fuselages (and other steel tubefuselages, too). I bet Jake Schultz's steel tube Piet is in about the rightstage of building to do a weight comparison. Based on recent photos, I thinkhe's got all or most of the other wooden bits added on.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
You didn't ask. Until now.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gps> In 2003, I flew my A65 powered Corben Jr. Ace to Brodhead. On the way> home, I had a nice 25 mph headwind. The GPS was key in finding an > altitudewith more favorable winds as well as fuel management. > It's a great tool> and really enhances safety, in many ways.> > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 7:47 AM, jarheadpilot82> > >> > Douwe,> >> > I have an app on my iPhone, Zephyr Charts. I have sectionals, low and high> > IFR charts as well as TACs for North America. I have flown with it and it> > works well. It is sort of a poor (or cheap) man's Foreflight.> >> > The zoom resolution is not as good as the high dollar apps but it is> > sufficient for a back up. Couple it with a Bad Elf GPS and you have cheap> > situational awareness for $3.99. There is a Zephyr Lite version (free) that> > gives you limited functionality to try it.> >> > YMMV. Call or contact me off-line if you want more info.> >> > --------> > Semper Fi,> >> > Terry Hand> > Athens, GA> >> >> >> >> > Read this topic online here:> >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 952#387952> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Greg Bacon________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "Pietflyer1977"
Back in the day (1970's) we were using old vacuum cleaner hoses as Gos-port tubes.It think I spelt that correctly. Just like the olden days. It was marginalat best. Now I use the Sigtronics portable unit with a 9 volt battery. I changethe battery out about two times a year. I have not had any pre-mature batterydischarges with mine. It works good on the ground and fair in the air.I squelch it all the way and and use a push to talk button with the carrierwire disconnected. It prevents radio transmissions that way.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

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Original Posted By: "BYD"
Great to see the exchange of information.... Terry is correct that my fuselage is two inches wider than plans, yet it may alsonot be the best one to make comparisons because I have added structure to compensatefor the door cutout, "up-sized" certain additional tube sections, andadded additional cross-bracing. (I believe it still might be slightly lighterthan wood but more on the order of 10 pounds - just a guess based on weightsand data from other projects.) I chose the steel-tube mostly because I likethe mix of wood, metal, fabric, etc., and I just wanted to create mine that way.I plan to post my weight information from time-to-time (not just the fuselage,but hopefully at a component level) to add information, however relevant, to thebody of Pietenpol knowledge in the public domain.One good candidate for a wood-steel comparison might be Bill Sayre's newly-completedPietenpol in Tacoma, WA since he has a very straightforward steel-tube Pietwith a Model A engine......--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB"
I wasnt going to add to this discussion because most of the important considerations(difficulty attaching simple things like throttle quadrants) have been mentionedand I didnt want to add to the wastewater dispersal aspect. I will mentionwhat persuaded me down the metal fuselage path. It was a conversationwith BHP during which he was discouraging me from using the Jenny style gear becauseit weighed more than the Cub style. He quoted about a 30-pound differenceand around that time a discussion was happening on the web (might have beenbefore Matronix when Steve E. ran a board, Im not sure) about the differencein weight between the metal and wood fuselages. At that time the discussionended with 35-pounds being the agreed upon savings for the metal version so thelogic was I could have the Jenny-style gear I really wanted and end up aboutthe same weight as a Cub-style gear/wooden fuselage configuration.Around the same time the consensus seemed to be that a metal tail was heavier thanwood and I never understood why but I fabricated mine out of wood. Perhapsthose that tried it felt the wall thickness had to be such that it defeatedthe purpose, I really dont know. I didnt look that far into it.BillNX626ERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout

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Original Posted By: airlion
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout I will not be paying for the phone service. I will use my Tmobile Android phoneas a WiFi hotspot to get on the internet and send messages. If I really likethe iPad and the coolaid is sweet enough, i may get an iPhone later. You mayalso pay for weather through Sirus (music is extra.)Two are three GPS/Instrument/Secitional services that Beech pilots talk about Foreflight($70 to $140 per year), WingX ($99 per year) I have not decided which to use but a buddy says "WingX has more features. ForeFlightis easier to use if you are ADHD. I've used both. I chose ForeFlight"There is also GarminPilot but I don't know much about it. There is an application that you buy (I think a one time $350 fee) and get weatherput on the map with free data. Too much to talk about. I will call a buddy that is a computer guru and owns a flight school. He loveshis gadgets. I will ask him what he uses and I will do the same. I don't knowenough to learn the details (and I don't really care.) I am an end user and don'twant to know all about all the programs. If y'all want I will let you know what I find out. Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----
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> > Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout

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Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
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> RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout

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Original Posted By:> > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > > Douwe,> > > > > > > > The macho stance is to just fly your Pietenpol with the technology > > thatBernard had available - chart and compass. While it can > > certainly be done> > that way (I flew a J-3 Cub from Tennessee to Texas using just > > that), it is> > foolish to turn your back on anything that can make flying safer. > > GPS is a> > wonderful tool for increasing your situational awareness, and > > thereforeincreasing safety. Just don't allow yourself to get too > > dependent on it -> > they can and do fail.> > > > > > > > I made a mount for my Garmin GPSMap 196 that attaches to the right > > upperlongeron so it is out of the way and easy to see. I then use > > a kneeboard> > with a TripTik chart (a series of 5-1/2 x 8-1/2 portions of a > > sectionalchart with my course printed on them). I can just turn > > over each page as I> > fly onto the next and can keep track of my progress in case the GPS > > goesTango Uniform. I use Aeroplanner software to generate the > > triptiks, but I> > think there are several different companies out there that do the same> > thing.> > > > > > > > Jack Phillips> > > > NX899JP> > > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > > > Where I very nearly wiped out a DiamondStar DA-40 this evening when > > 5 deer> > ran across the runway as we were rolling out after landing. The > > last one> > missed the prop by less than a foot and then went UNDER the right > > wingtip.> > > > > > _____ > >
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Just a question for those of you experimenting with iPads and smartphones.. I'm guessing that you have a 12-volt battery source to keep the device charged. I have an Android phone=2C and am thinking about an iPad=2C probably an older one off eBay=2C but wondered about the internal battery life. I know when I use the Android for GPS nav in the car=2C it kills it pretty quickly unless it's plugged into a car charger. That said=2C I navigated to Brodhead in 2011 just with trip-tics and pilotage=2C and it was a lot of fun. But the weather was perfect and I didn't have to deviate from the planned course line at all. This past year=2C with all the weather in the midwest=2C my track to Brodhead looked like a snake. I was glad to have had an old Garmin 90 with me. Folded charts are a disaster in a Piet cockpit. I've had flashbacks to Jimmy Stewart in "The Spirit of St. Louis" flying low and yelling "Which way to Ireland???"Matt Paxton ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building a Steel fuselage
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