Pietenpol-List: Used Pietenpol plans

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Pietenpol-List: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Dan Plett
Food for thought:If I was in the middle of a 4 year build and considering a non-standard coveringsystem, I would build a few 12" square test panels and leave them outside formany months, and punch test them.-----------------------Given a choice between leaving the color off or the UV off, I leave the color off.Both our Piet and our Wagabond had the wings and the tails just done in Polyspray ( the 'silver' stitts UV barrier). Only the fuselage and vertical, andrudder were/are in Insignia blue Poly tone. (the color part of the system) Polyspray holds up, but it needs to be washed more often. Planes with matte finishes,color on the fuse and silver wings look 1930-ish to me.------------------------Grace's BC-12D was covered in stits 40 years/1,100 hours ago. It is still in goodcondition. It has lived indoors since it was recovered, but for the last 9years we have had a full 40X50 hangar with several planes shelves tools etc. Ifit is not raining, I often push the Taylorcraft outside all day just to makemore working space. It might get 1,000 hr./year in the sun just from this. Manyhangars have translucent panels for sunlight that may block nothing. -----------------------------I worked in the fabric shop of Willie Carter at Spruce creek 1993-97. We mostlydid competition aerobatic planes, which would always be indoors, and would oftenbe recovered every 5-6 years just as an inspection. Owners were rabid aboutweight, but I don't recall a single one of them asking to delete the UV coats.Willie's theory was it takes a certain amount of material to fill the weave,some of it might as well be UV coats. 100% of everything we did was Stits (polyfiber).-wwRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Used Pietenpol plans
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Dan P"
The plans came with the Pietenol. The Piet is long gone and I still have plans.By count there a 19 sheets all together. I no longer need the plans. Whatis something like this worth and is anyone interested?Dan________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans
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> Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

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Original Posted By:> dlplett(at)swko.net
They're worth $0 to someone with ethics. Doug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans
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> Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

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Original Posted By:> dlplett(at)swko.net
One airplane per set of plans. Doug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Ray Krause
>From Andrew Pietenpol.--------Dan PlettN28WHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... __________
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> Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> dlplett(at)swko.net
He is more gracious than most design holder. Certainly more than I would be=2C but nonetheless I would question a person's character who would not purchase plans from the design holder just to save a couple bucks on a $10=2C000+ airplane. This is no reflection on you...well a little=2C but on the purchaser. Andrew deserves the money as without him there would be no more Piet plans.Doug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
"you people"?Gary BootheNX308MB
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
Last time I heard "you people",Archie Bunker said it. Mr. Pietenpol gave his permission to sell the used set of plans. Get over it. Next topic please. I would love to hear more about deck angle. This is a wonderful group of minds which has contributed greatly to my knowledge. Thank you allSent from my iPhone> On Sep 2, 2014, at 6:09 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:> > =9Cyou people=9D?> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB>
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

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Original Posted By: capaviation1(at)rogers.com
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Grant:Here is a game plan in two parts, phase one we will rough it in the ball park,and part two we can do a sharp calculation adjusted for your plane. This pathfor using the W&B data we collected is basically the same no matter which engineor fuselage length a builder selects.1) Pick a plane with the same engine and fuselage length, and similar configuration;In your case, lets look at the Corvair section of the articles Ryan andI produced. There are 4 planes in the table. Plane #1 is Randy Bush's 500 hr Piet : http://flycorvair.net/2013/07/11/randy- ... 500-hours/ note that his maximum pilot weight is 178 pounds, well below your target.Plane #2 is one of the steel tube Big Piets from GA, it is built differently thanyour plane, so it is not a good starting point.Plane #3 Is Kevin Purtee's Piet: http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/25/guest- ... in-purtee/ note that it is in CG with any pilot from 151 to 310 pounds. This is your target.Plane #4 is the uncovered project that becomes the French Valley Piet: http://flycorvair.net/2013/01/08/new-pi ... valley-ca/ Their plane was unfinished and doesn't have complete data for you, but I know from following the finished project they do not have the plane in a configuration to carry a pilot much over 170 pounds. -------------------------------So Focusing in on Plane #3, What are the major differences with your plane? Youmentioned your fuselage being 2" longer in the front bay, (this is an easy calculationto adjust) but lets check some other points: Kevin's Length from theprop flange to the firewall is 33" (MML), I need to know is your plane is different.Second, Kevin's plane had the top of the pilot seat back, on the frontface where it met the longeron, 76.5" from the firewall (PSL). Theoreticallyyour plane with the two extra inches in the fuselage front bay will be 78.5",please measure this and confirm it.Kevin's plane had the leading edge of the wing 12.6" behind the firewall (WL).Note that it also had the main landing gear axle 5.5" behind the Leading edge(MGL), or 18.1" behind his firewall. As we go through this, you may get a betterpicture of why Ryan and I settled on the describing the W&B in the terms wedid, as it helps to clarify comparisons between planes and assists in calculations.Let me know the two items above, your MML and your PSL and we will go on to thenext step.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "CatDesigns"
Food for thought:If a plane was built, or the major portion of a plane was built from a set of plans,it seems to me the plans would go with the plane. A second owner of a finishedplane not getting the plans is akin to a guy buying a certified airplanebut not picking up the log books. The most important thing in a set of logsis not maintenance, it is what makes that individual plane different than others(337s, W&B, options). Since every homebuilt is one of a kind, the plans itwas built from are a very important part of the records. Second owners of homebuilts have an atrocious safety record that is a major threat to our freedomto build. That's not an opinion, I have sat in on kit industry meetings whereFeds have directly said this.-------------------------------------Good reason #1 to buy new plans from the legitimate source: Access to all the data.Many of the people we worked with on the W&B project didn't get their plansfrom Don Pietenpol, and thus they could never ask "Is there a W&B sheet?" whichthere was, available from Don for the asking, which also contained the vitalmodern landing gear location. I bought my plans from Don in 1989 and got thisinformation with the plans set. People who chose to get plans from other sourcesmissed it and blindly built themselves into a CG corner. Many cheap buildersthink that everything they need to know can be found on the net. We haveplenty of evidence that this isn't actually true, and access to any support froma good source is well worth buying.---------------------------------------I read Andrew's reply and to me it said "One set of plans, one plane". I am notso sure he understood that the plans had been used to already produce one plane?Many people think that one plane from a set of plans. Consider this instead:One set of support and education from one set of plans, which I think of aseven more fair. If four guys successively own the same set of plans, and eachof them utilizes many hours of the providers time to learn a lot about building,I think they are abusing the system. If a designer teaches a guy a lot aboutbuilding, say 10 hours of email and phone calls, then he earned minimum wageteaching that guy something about planes, and it isn't fair if the 2nd, 3rdand fourth guy get to reduce this to 1/4 min wage.-----------------------------------------The next time at anyone is at Oshkosh, and you hear people complaining that theywhole focus is on products for the wealthy, remember this topic, and understandthat there would be many more plans built options for working guys if rankand file homebuilders just bought plans from the people that worked to developthem and provide support for the designs. I personally know kit designers whowill not sell plans solely for this reason. You can go all the way back to the1950s, and no one should have bought Cougar plans, but they did because Wittmanasked a fair price for his Tailwind plans and the support he gave. Cheappeople saved $100 on plans and got the lesser plane by a long shot.--------------------------------------PS to Bill Budgell: When you are mad at people, call them out by name, it worksbetter than using terms like "you people." General terms cause the very kindof negativity you don't like, and don't explain what it is you object to. Ifyou think that I personally am harming Piet building, please say so. The verbalrifle bullet makes a better point that the verbal car bomb, and spares the collateraldamage to the people you didn't want to include in "you people."Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:sloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A
Gee Bill, I am sure glad you are on here now, so that we can start getting good advice again.=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoen
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: capaviation1(at)rogers.com
I certainly hope it wasn't me who peed in your Wheaties.Doug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow OhioDate: Tue=2C 2 Sep 2014 19:47:01 -0700
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Don't lose any sleep, Doug. Isn't it curious that Mr. Budgell has neverposted on this forum (at least, not for several years), and, for his firstpost, he chooses to rage against all those who offer no guidance, faultyguidance, yet he has offered nothing after flying his Piet for 600 hrs!Gary BootheNX308MB
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> Gary Boothe
Wow, haven't seen anything like that since "The Fisherman" (he of Home Depot lumber and Elmer's glue) told everyone off. I hope it makes him feel better.On Sep 3, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Bill Budgell wrote:> Just the response I thought there would be..... you guys always have to out do each other ...... as long as your all.... right.> > as I read on the forum once ..... if the new people don't agree with us ...... we will ignore them and they will go away.> > The one thing about know it all's...... like this forum is you cant tell them nothing.> > Oh Gary Boothe if that's all you can reply you have just proved my point ..... you really don't have anything to say or come back with of anything intelligent.... you only read what you want to read.> > Now you little boys play nice in the sand box..... while the real men vacate this forum and move on to a non spoon feeding forum. > > Regards: Bill Budgell> > Cap Aviation Supplies>
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: larharris2 Harris
Wow, this has taken a life of its own not necessarily in a good way. Here is my email to Andrew that got that response. Looking back maybe I shouldhave included with Andrew's reply. > Andrew> I bought a flying Pietenpol with plans. The Piet was damaged in an accidentand sold for salvage. I still have the plans. Is it the intent in the saleof the plans that 'one set of plans is to build one air camper'? Is it againstthe Bernard Pietenpol tradition and the family's wishes for me to sell or evengive away my air camper plans?> > Sincerely> > Dan Rather than have everyone (that is interested) scroll back to Andrews reply.> Dear Dan,> > Thank you most graciously for asking. They are yours. Copyright laws do notallow for reproduction and resale. But as they are your set now you can sellyour one set to a person who wants to build an airplane or donate. I hope thishelps.> > Sincerely> > Andrew PietenpolIt seems a shame to discard a set of plans when possibly there is someone witha damaged sheet or two that could possibly have a better copy.--------Dan PlettN28WHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Beautiful ship and young lady. Douwe, is your gas cap vent on backwards?Sent from my iPadJack Textor> On Sep 2, 2014, at 10:31 AM, "namrednos" wrote:> > > Douwe, the weather was great until 6:30> > Your plane is one of a kind. I was very impressed with your delightful daughter.I wish one of my 4 daughters would take interest in our hobby.> > See attached> > --------> Scott> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 845#429845> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp1463_194.jpg> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Dan P"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > > plett57(at)hotmail.com wrote:> > The plans came with the Pietenol. The Piet is long gone and I still have plans. By count there a 19 sheets all together. I no longer need the plans. What is something like this worth and is anyone interested?> > > > Dan> > > D'oh. Interesting this posted me as a guest.> > --------> Dan Plett> N28WH> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 663#429663> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > >From Andrew Pietenpol.> > --------> Dan Plett> N28WH> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 778#429778> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_670.jpg> > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:42:40 +0000 (UTC)
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> Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > >From Andrew Pietenpol.> > --------> Dan Plett> N28WH> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 778#429778> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_670.jpg& Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,>=======================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > >From Andrew Pietenpol.> > --------> Dan Plett> N28WH> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 778#429778> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_670.jpg & Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,>=======================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans
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> Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > >From Andrew Pietenpol.> > --------> Dan Plett> N28WH> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 778#429778> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com/files/image_670.jpg& Archive Search & Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C>=======================> > > =0A http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ntribution =0A=0Acom/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://wwwhref="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">htn" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution== ... =====0A=0A =0A=0A=0A============0A============0A============0A============0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
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> Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > >From Andrew Pietenpol.> > --------> Dan Plett> N28WH> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 778#429778> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com/files/image_670.jpg& Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,>=======================> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... enpol-List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://wwwhref"http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">htn"target="_blank"rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution== ... ========st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... __________
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rs.com=0A Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans=0ATo: pieten

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:=0A =0ACap Aviation Supplies=0A =0AGary Boothe
rs.com=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0AYes you people ....( not you as the person) I know you are defending Andrew Pietenpol ....the forum doesn't seem to do a lot of helping new builders plus all they do is re-engineer the Pietenpol why do think Andrew Pietenpol isn't on the site ... yet he still cares but he's not there anymore and the guy that sells the hinges that vi kapler use to sell because these guys cant be told anything..... they load factors type of material etc.... what crap I have 600hrs. on kaplers hinges no problem. =0A =0AThe forum people don't even know what AC43 manual is.... and come up with BS on what they think they know but in reality they know nothing... there some good people on there but I can see anyone with common sense that makes a statement these people don't listen.... and they pass there BS on to people that don't know better to walk away. =0A =0AThe chatter is stupid I have made a lot of good friends from the site but most have left for exactly this reason ..... why don't you pass this on to the forum and lets see the BS come back on this.=0A =0AHalf of what these people say is wrong and half of what they tell new builders is incorrect this is a simple aircraft to build. and was designed by a good man that had more common sense in his baby finger than what I see in this hole forum. =0A =0AIt seems that the new way in aviation and in homebuilding is to spoon feed this new breed..... on every little item If the forum wants to really back the Pietenpol Aircraft then do Andrew Pietenpol the honor of building the plane as per plans and stop the over building and analyzing every dam thing.... and spread some common sense around on the forum.=0A =0AI have never seen so much indecision on the building like I have on this forum I can go back in the archives and find good information up to a point .... then from that point you can read the BS from the new age.... so called know it all's.... It time someone spoke up here... its time to get back to correct advise to new builders that is backed up and not BS. =0A =0ARegards: Bill Budgell AME. Canada
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> RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> capaviation1(at)rogers.com
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________________=0AFrom: kipgohio1957(at)gmail.com=0A Re: Pietenpol-Li

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:_______________________=0A> Gary Boothe =0A>To:
ietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A=0AWow, haven't seen anything like that since "The Fisherman" (he of Home Depot lumber and Elmer's glue) told everyone off. I hope it makes him feel better.=0A=0AOn Sep 3, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Bill Budgell wrote:=0A=0AJust the response I thought there would be..... you guys always have to out do each other ...... as long as your all.... right.=0A>=0A>=0A>as I read on the forum once ..... if the new people don't agree with us ...... we will ignore them and they will go away.=0A>=0A>=0A>The one thing about know it all's...... like this forum is you cant tell them nothing.=0A>=0A>=0A>Oh Gary Boothe if that's all you can reply you have just proved my point ..... you really don't have anything to say or come back with of anything intelligent.... you only read what you want to read.=0A>=0A>=0A>Now you little boys play nice in the sand box..... while the real men vacate this forum and move on to a non spoon feeding forum. =0A>=0A>Regards: Bill Budgell=0A>=0A>Cap Aviation Supplies=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>_________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Dan P"
@swko.net>=0A>> =0A>> >From Andrew Pietenpol.=0A>> =0A>> --------=0A>> Dan Plett=0A>> N28WH=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Read this topic online here:=0A>> =0A>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... #429778=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Attachments: =0A>> =0A>> http://forums.matronics.com/files/image_670.jpg=0A>& Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,=0A>>=========================0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ibution=0A> =0A>com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://wwwhref=%22http/forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">htn" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution==============0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>============0A>st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ========0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ibution=0A> =0A>com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://wwwhref="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">htn" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution============= =0A>=0A> =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ntribution =0A =0A============0Ast" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ========== ================ ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Used Pietenpol plans
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