Pietenpol-List: Aft CG

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Pietenpol-List: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Our High School Project is aft cg by an inch and a half. The plans indicate a maxaft cg of 20 inches from wing leading edge. when our fuel is down to 4 gallonour cg is 21 and half inches. Please comment from the experienced flyers.How critical is this aft cg?FlyboyHigh School InstructorFour Years buildingBerwick PARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/phot ... __________
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
The worst. You're flying heavy...with passenger and heavy pilot...the end ofa long leg, with minimum fuel...pilot gets distracted and allows approachspeed to drop too much...the stall would be unrecoverable.Can you slant the cabanes back? That's your best fix.Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: "bdewenter"
CG is critical. Do not even think of flying your plane beyond the CG limits. Fromwhat I've read, others may have flown their planes beyond the aft CG designlimit. But only good fortune prevented their deaths - as well as the deaths oftheir passengers. In this condition you're depending on the engine running tomaintain stability. Lose the engine, and you will lose much of your control.Don't do it.LorenzoRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Jack Philips"
Don't even think about flying an aircraft with the CG aft of the limits! Garybooth hits the nail on the head - if you stall the aircraft and your CG is aftthe rear limit you will NOT regain control and all aboard are likely to die.If you built the Piet according to plans it time to slant the wing back.I am guessing you are not a licensed pilot? What are you planning on doing todo with the Piet?--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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RE: Pietenpol-List: NEED ADVICE!!!!

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Unfortunately, Jack, I=99m going to miss it as well. We can=99t leave until Friday morning and unless we can leave at dawn (meaning no fog off the lake) we won=99t be there until mid afternoon. The trip to Brodhead will take about 7 or 8 hours including fuel stops. Save a Brat for me!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Hinge Alternative

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Michael,Just curious. How are you going to retain the hinge pins?Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Thank you for the response. We will not fly out of CG. We need to look at ballastand any other options.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: "Jeff Boatright"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CGBasic information on Going Aft of the CG Limits.AFT CG causes: increased elevator sensitivity, difficulty recovering from aspin, and increased cruise speed.The Increased elevator sensitivity for an aft CG causes the plane to becomevery/overly sensitive to elevator input which can lead to stalls (or hardlandings). As the CG is moved aft, the amount of elevator deflectionrequired is greatly reduced. An increased angle of attack will be achievedwith less elevator control force.This very light back elevator control forces may lead to inadvertent stallentries and if a spin is entered, the balance of forces on the airplane mayresult in a flat spin. Recovery from a flat spin is often impossible.Also, this increased sensitivity can make it is easier to overload theairframe with excessive G forces with the controls with a CG at the aftlimit. Our Pietenpols are not stressed for High G forces, therefore avoidsnap rolls!Aft CG causes the plane to fly somewhat faster, As a result airliners oftentry to fly at the rear of (but inside) the CG envelope. They pump fuelforward and backward to manage CG. Getting there faster is not asimportant in a Pietenpol.Forward of the CG limits and the plane can become so stable (lethargic)that you cannot flare for landing or pull it off for takeoff.Some possible solutions: move the Wing back or move weight forward. Extendthe nose. Put a battery as far forward as possible. Put all "luggage" asfar forward as possible. Put short screws in the tail and long screws inthe nose. Don't overbuild the tail, tailwheel or rear fuselage. Use lightfabric and paint it light. Upgrade the engine with a starter oralternator.Blue Skies,Steve D.On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Lorenzo wrote:>> CG is critical. Do not even think of flying your plane beyond the CG> limits. From what I've read, others may have flown their planes beyond the> aft CG design limit. But only good fortune prevented their deaths - as well> as the deaths of their passengers. In this condition you're depending on> the engine running to maintain stability. Lose the engine, and you will> lose much of your control. Don't do it.>> Lorenzo>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 442664>>-- Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
As others have said, it is extremely dangerous to fly a plane with CG aft of it'slimits. Many Pietenpols are indeed tail heavy but there is a remedy that MANYbuilders (or subsequent owners) have used, so don't despair.As others have written, the remedy is to move the wing backwards (usually 3-4 inches,but you'll need to calculate that). I'm adding my voice here because Ihave done it, and it's not that hard to do. First, establish if the construction of the strut and cabane attach points areto the plans and so will allow the wing to be moved. I realize that the strutattach points at the wing intersection does not APPEAR to allow this, but believeme, it does.If construction was not to the plans, then please post lots of detailed picturesof the attach points for struts and cabanes. Hopefully we can suggest solutionsto even that situation.But, back to the situation of having a to-the-plans-built plane. The second thingto do is to disconnect the diagonal cabanes. The flying wires that cross betweenthe wing struts will keep the wing in place. Now, start loosening the turnbucklesat the front of the fuselage and tightening the turnbuckles at the rearof the fuselage. Viola! Your wing will start to move backwards. You may needto replace the barrels on the front turnbuckles with longer ones. They comein (if I recall correctly) three standard lengths. Almost assuredly yours arethe middle length. Aircraft Spruce sells the longer ones.Third, and possibly real work: Make and install new diagonal cabanes.Done.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 16:20:28 +0000 (UTC)
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Re: Pietenpol-List: NEED ADVICE!!!!

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
Man Jack that's too bad we will miss you! Look forward to seeing you later in the day.Sent from my iPadJack Textor> On May 28, 2015, at 9:14 AM, "Jack Philips" wrote:> > Unfortunately, Jack, I=99m going to miss it as well. We can=99t leave until Friday morning and unless we can leave at dawn (meaning no fog off the lake) we won=99t be there until mid afternoon. The trip to Brodhead will take about 7 or 8 hours including fuel stops. Save a Brat for me!> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>
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RE: Pietenpol-List: NEED ADVICE!!!!

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Original Posted By: Marcus Zechini
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: NEED ADVICE!!!!
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: "Charles N. Campbell"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Thank you gentlemen, we were able to shift the wing back an inch and a half, tosolve the problem.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: "Jeff Boatright"
Thanks Curt,I nabbed that southwest flight, so I just have to miss Friday.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Jack Philips"
Hi Flyboy,I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but maybe you would consider running anotherweight and balance operation from soup to nuts now that the wing has been moved.Depending upon how the plane was weighed and how the datum was set, if youwere initially 1.5 inches out of range, moving the wing back that exact amountmay or may not have completely solved the problem because the wing has weight,too. Probably you've solved the problem, but consider double-checking. Besides, if thisis a class project, running the procedure again should be instructional forthose kids who missed it the first time, right? ;)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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RE: Pietenpol-List: NEED ADVICE!!!!

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Nope. Cessna 170B. 5 times over the mountains in the Piet is enough.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia
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RE: Pietenpol-List: NEED ADVICE!!!!

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Original Posted By: Marcus Zechini
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: NEED ADVICE!!!!
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Flyboy"
Getting a little tired of sanding, varnish, sanding. A few more coats to go!Sent from my iPadJack Textor________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Jeff Boatright"
Jeff we will run the W&B again. I neglected to tell you we are adding a Batteryto the firewall to offset the CG Also. Thanks again.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Sounds great, and keep us updated. Very cool that another Piet will be joiningthe flock soon!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "David McBride"
Glad to see that the BPA is getting back up to speed. I had been worried for awhile that my dues check was lost after sending it in in mid-Feb, but thankfully,it was cashed a couple of days ago. I'm excited to see what this group hasto offer. I will try to do my part and send material in as my build progresses.--------Andy Garrett'General Purpose Creative Dude'Haysville, KansasRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Do not fly it. Unless it is a 50-75lb battery the cg difference is negligible.That would be about the weight difference from a model A and an A65 (plus engineis farther forward than the firewall) What engine do you have installed? Youwould also want to plan for worst case senario. Accidents happen when a bunchof little things are not right. What happens if you fly longer and only have2 gallons left? Plan the cg with no fuel and full fuel. The single best cureis to move the wing aft around 4", but not the only. Yes this means redoing thecabanes, flight controls etc. What are weights of the pilot being used in thecg calculation? This makes an enormous difference. I would not plan to makeit just in front of 20" that makes for small margins. I say this not as my opinion,but as industry standards, and faa regulations. Neither myself or my coworkerswould be involved in anything aft of cg limits. This includes corporatepilots, airline pilots, A&Ps, IAs and Inspectors. I assume the cg was take fromscales with the aircraft in a level position?--------David McBride Rochester, NY dmcb84(at)hotmail.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: "Flyboy"
________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
Gentlemen, I had the students post the cg comment. They do this under my name.Thank you for all the responses. It is a great learning tool for them. WhatI had them do is move the wing back and redo the front struts. We hope to weightthe plane again tomorrow. School year is coming to an end. We do calculatefull fuel and zero fuel. I do have a student 315 lbs. We know he is not ableto get in the Piet. He did stand on our Oratex fabric test panels and the testwas successful. Our continental 65 does have a leak on number 2 around the sparkplug insert. They make .03, .06, .09 oversize inserts. The compression was74/80. That will be our next obstacle. Thank you again for all the comments.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
About the leak around the #2 insert..... the copper washer should seal allleaks between the head and spark plug base, so if the insert was leaking, itwould be stopped by the washer. The seal is the copper washer, not theinsert. From past experience, a leak around the spark plug area means a badweld on a repaired cylinder or a crack radiating from the spark plug hole.Just check this area carefully.Barry DavisNX973BP-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
Awesome! Wish i had a class like this. Keep us posted on the updated W&B. CONGRATS!Looks like alot of hard work done by many people.--------David McBride Rochester, NY dmcb84(at)hotmail.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
What a beautiful plane! Nice flight. Please let us see more of your plane.Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:19 PM, Iain wrote:> > > Thank you all! Unfortunately I will not make it to Broadhead this year. Howeveri would love to meet the US Pietenpol fraternity in the future.> > Link attached of my (second) take off and (very high approach and long) landingfilmed with my head-mounted GoPro. > > http://youtu.be/saKQsw7dsGo> > All the best> Iain.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 113#443113> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Aircamper in Scotland

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Iain"
Mr. Flyboy,I was always taught to respectfully call my teachers Mr. ________, never just theirfirst name or last name, and since I don't know your real name, I guess Ijust have to go with Mr. Flyboy. I emailed you offline and never got a response,so I thought I would post here to ensure that you got the info. It takes far more calculation that just a TLAR ("that looks about right") or tryingto equate wing reposition directly to CG location. This is such an importantissue, on the Pietvair forum (for Pietenpol bulders and flyers using the Corvairengine to power their aircraft) that I mentioned in an earlier post, wehave an individual W&B notebook thread available for each builder, where CG calculationsare discussed, evaluated and double checked to make sure they arecorrect. The topic is well covered, since both William Wynne and Ryan Muellerwho did the original articles are on Pietvair and contribute to the CG threads.I would recommend that you contact Doc Mosher who still sells those articles.If you need his contact info, post here that you need it, and we will get itto you.As you have been cautioned by numerous people, DO NOT allow anyone to fly thataircraft, or even taxi it until the CG issues are corrected.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Aircamper in Scotland
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Aircamper in Scotland

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Iain"
A few more photos! Thanks for your interest Iain.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Aircamper in Scotland
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: "Flyboy"
Gosh I enjoyed that guy. Blessings to his family and close friends.One day at Brodhead Dick told me he used to own a twin Seneca (or something like that) for his swimming pool business and he gave me someof the harrowing details of a solid IFR flight one time. You could tell he was grateful to be on the other side of that flight-----even years later. Here'sto you Dick for making this side of our earthly life more of a joy.Mike C.[cid:image001.jpg(at)01D0A1CA.C8CB8070] [cid:image002.jpg(at)01D0A1CA.C8CB8070][cid:image003.jpg(at)01D0A1CA.C8CB8070]________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Dick Navratil - Gone West

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "bdewenter"
Terry, I let the students handle the email list most of the time. Sorry if therewas no response. They moved the wing back 3.5 inches and made new struts forthe front of the cabana. Only three days left to school year and it is verybusy. Thank you for the response. The aircraft is now in cg when the fuel tankis empty. September we will be back to work. Thank you.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dick Navratil - Gone West
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: cozygirrrl(at)aol.com
I spent a few moments getting to know Dick at Corvair College last year (2014).I helped him check and correct the backlash in his Corvair engine. I believethis one was destined for his Piet on floats. He was a very nice man.If you can't place his face you can see him here in an EAA film by Brady Lanehttp://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=3877114447001--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 10:13:54 -0400
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Dick Navratil - Gone West

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
Dick was simply one of the finest humans I ever met. There just aren't words thatcan describe that man's generosity. The simple act of buying an airplanefrom him changed so much in my life. My thoughts and prayers are certainly with Joan and his children.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Don't take this wrong, Flyboy, as it's not a critique of your students,necessarily, but just a comment in general, and applies to many adults,too...Much of my work is accomplished through email, and I am continuallyirritated by people (my grandson included), who do not respond toconstructive/instructive emails...at all! Just seems like bad manners...but,then, maybe I'm just getting old...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Report: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering 2015

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Mr. FlyBoy,You said that you have been on the forum off and on, so you may have said it earlierin a post, but I just wanted to get a better understanding of what you aredoing and your goals-1. What are you trying to accomplish with your students? What are your goals?2. When do you anticipate finishing? What are you going to do with the aircraftonce it is finished?3. Who is going to fly off the test phase, or is that not the goal? I believe yousaid that you were not a pilot?4. How have you funded the project?I will thank you in advance for your responses.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Report: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering 2015
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Jeff: it's not Valhalla, but you can see it from there when there's no fog ;o)--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Flyboy"
Flyingmjm,The plane you're looking for sounds like the one being rebuilt by Bill Princell.He is on this List from time to time. Perhaps he will chime in.BCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Gary,I funded the whole project with the agreement the airplane would be mine. Onlystudents interested in the project have worked on it. Our classes are only 43minutes long, so they do not have much time to work. We have only worked onthe airplane during the school day. The students that started the project havegraduated. Some stop by to check on progress. We do not have a formal aviationprogram. We have a wood shop, Manufacturing class and independent study. Wehave managed to work pieces of the aircraft into all the classes. We have usedAC 43-13 as our guide and used all aircraft grade materials. I plan on flyingthe aircraft. Late fall is the projected time to fly the aircraft, when weget out inspection. My tailwheel time is in a Cessna 140 and Aeronca Champ. Westarted with a polyfiber covering on the fuselage, but removed it and used Oratex.No paint, no chemicals and was easy to work with. Use wax and grease removerbefore you apply the finish tapes. The wax from the stitching needs tobe removed. Considering the number of times we move the aircraft, we have onlyhad one piece of say hangar rash on the project. I wish the classes had moretime, but we do the best we can. Thursday is the last day of school. This isa just a lot of thoughts quickly put together, grades are due and clean up.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Is everybody else receiving this message daily?Sent from my iPadJack Textor> On Jun 2, 2015, at 7:01 AM, "Flyboy" wrote:> > > Gentlemen, I had the students post the cg comment. They do this under my> name. Thank you for all the responses. It is a great learning tool for> them. What I had them do is move the wing back and redo the front struts.> We hope to weight the plane again tomorrow. School year is coming to an> end. We do calculate full fuel and zero fuel. I do have a student 315 lbs.> We know he is not able to get in the Piet. He did stand on our Oratex> fabric test panels and the test was successful. Our continental 65 does> have a leak on number 2 around the spark plug insert. They make .03, .06,> .09 oversize inserts. The compression was 74/80. That will be our next> obstacle. Thank you again for all the comments.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 900#442900> > > > > > > > > > > > -----> No virus found in this message.> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com________________________________________________________________________________
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
No...just once.Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

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Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick N

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick N
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Dick N

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Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
I knew that Dick was signed up for Corvair College 30 in Mexico MO. I brought mycopy of Sport Pilot with his radial Piet on the cover. He signed it for me....itwill reside among some of my most prized possesions. What a nice guy he was.Made me feel like an old friend the first time I met him.--------Jon JonesIronton, MORead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Charles N. Campbell"
> To: " pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: auto GPS test > > Hi Douwe> > which software did you use on the iphone? Maps only?> > Semih=8B> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Marcus Zechini wrote: >> I have an old Nuvi...how long does battery last? >> When I bought the Grega, it came with 2 Garmin 196s. I downloaded newest s/w, for one, but don't think I'll pay for database update. Anyone want the second? Will bring to Brodhead.>>> On Jun 15, 2015 3:27 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:>>> Hey all,>>> >>> My early father=99s day present was a Garmin NUVI auto gps. Since my second =9Caviation grade=9D Garmin puked right before Brodhead last year, I flew with my iphone as my primary navigation backed up by charts on my knee pad in case it quit. I had used the iphone the previous year to back up my garmin so it worked great for two years. Always keep a paper backup though.>>> >>> Anyways, I got to wondering if this auto gps would work in the plane and serve as a last ditch gps backup for the iphone. Went flying and sure enough, it works fine. There=99s not much detail or aviation related info, but many airports are there and in =9Coffroad=9D mode, it=99ll show a direct path. Seems like a fine backup gps.>>> >>> Keep the charts though!>>> >>> Douwe>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > -- > Semih Oksay> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List-> http://foru========== > > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly> prohibited.> > If you have received this message in error, please contact> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the> original message (including attachments).> =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD%=EF=BD=EF=BDM4=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDx=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDw=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD> > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 07:40:02 -0400Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
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