Original Posted By: Steve Pugh
Soon I will have everything together for my fuel system but I am stilllacking two things. If you have a solution for either of these areasplease post a response. I am looking for a primer unit, and a fuel sitegauge solution. Aircraft Spruce has the "Stearman type" gauge onindefinate backorder, and the ACS primer is almost 60 bucks!I have had suggestions about using a snowmobile primer and wonder whatelse has been used with success.Stevee.BTW I am going with the latex covering procedure as outlined in thesport aviation article mentioned here a while back. The fuse is flatblack and back on the gear. I 've got to put everything back togetheragain to make sure I have everything right before the cover goes on thewings. One note of success is that my holes line up with the cablesthat pass through the fuse skin on the way back to the tailfeathers!________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: I need a primer for a-65
Pietenpol-List: Re: I need a primer for a-65
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Steve Eldredge wrote:> > Soon I will have everything together for my fuel system but I am still> lacking two things. If you have a solution for either of these areas> please post a response. I am looking for a primer unit, and a fuel site> gauge solution. Aircraft Spruce has the "Stearman type" gauge on> indefinate backorder, and the ACS primer is almost 60 bucks!> > I have had suggestions about using a snowmobile primer and wonder what> else has been used with success.> > Stevee.> > BTW I am going with the latex covering procedure as outlined in the> sport aviation article mentioned here a while back. The fuse is flat> black and back on the gear. I 've got to put everything back together> again to make sure I have everything right before the cover goes on the> wings. One note of success is that my holes line up with the cables> that pass through the fuse skin on the way back to the tailfeathers!Steve.I have a continental A-80 in my Grega Aircamper and a J-3 fueltank. With gravity flow and a impulse mag, a couple of flips of the propand I am good to go. I find no need for the extra plumbing and expenseof a primer, also have the very reliable fuel gauge of J-3 fame, a wireon a cork float, again no plumbing , no fuel leaks, and very acurate,also keeps it very simple . Just a thought for you,others may disagreeas some folks like a lot of dials ,gauges and knobs . Regards. Ernie.________________________________________________________________________________
Steve Eldredge wrote:> > Soon I will have everything together for my fuel system but I am still> lacking two things. If you have a solution for either of these areas> please post a response. I am looking for a primer unit, and a fuel site> gauge solution. Aircraft Spruce has the "Stearman type" gauge on> indefinate backorder, and the ACS primer is almost 60 bucks!> > I have had suggestions about using a snowmobile primer and wonder what> else has been used with success.> > Stevee.> > BTW I am going with the latex covering procedure as outlined in the> sport aviation article mentioned here a while back. The fuse is flat> black and back on the gear. I 've got to put everything back together> again to make sure I have everything right before the cover goes on the> wings. One note of success is that my holes line up with the cables> that pass through the fuse skin on the way back to the tailfeathers!Steve.I have a continental A-80 in my Grega Aircamper and a J-3 fueltank. With gravity flow and a impulse mag, a couple of flips of the propand I am good to go. I find no need for the extra plumbing and expenseof a primer, also have the very reliable fuel gauge of J-3 fame, a wireon a cork float, again no plumbing , no fuel leaks, and very acurate,also keeps it very simple . Just a thought for you,others may disagreeas some folks like a lot of dials ,gauges and knobs . Regards. Ernie.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: I need a primer for a-65
Original Posted By: jkahn(at)picasso.dehavilland.ca (John Kahn)
>Steve Eldredge wrote:>> >> Soon I will have everything together for my fuel system but I am still>> lacking two things. If you have a solution for either of these areas>> please post a response. I am looking for a primer unit, and a fuel site>> gauge solution. Aircraft Spruce has the "Stearman type" gauge on>> indefinate backorder, and the ACS primer is almost 60 bucks!>> >> I have had suggestions about using a snowmobile primer and wonder what>> else has been used with success.>> >> Stevee.>> >> BTW I am going with the latex covering procedure as outlined in the>> sport aviation article mentioned here a while back. The fuse is flat>> black and back on the gear. I 've got to put everything back together>> again to make sure I have everything right before the cover goes on the>> wings. One note of success is that my holes line up with the cables>> that pass through the fuse skin on the way back to the tailfeathers!>Steve.I have a continental A-80 in my Grega Aircamper and a J-3 fuel>tank. With gravity flow and a impulse mag, a couple of flips of the prop>and I am good to go. I find no need for the extra plumbing and expense>of a primer, also have the very reliable fuel gauge of J-3 fame, a wire>on a cork float, again no plumbing , no fuel leaks, and very acurate,>also keeps it very simple . Just a thought for you,others may disagree>as some folks like a lot of dials ,gauges and knobs . Regards. Ernie.>>Is a shame that Aircraft Spruce dont have the Stearman dial, I have one thatI am going to use in my 3 axis airplane (GTub). Try to talk to Jerry Aguilarat Aircraft Spruce, he is VERY patience and always willing to help, just tomake shure that they will continue selling them.Hold a little. This Dial is worth, in the mean time you can build the wingtank, the inner part (cork side) has 8" travel. I will put a drain valve inthe bottom of the dial to get the water out of the tank. Saludos (almost ready) EAA Chapter 1039 President ~1,800 VW 2 place "Gtub"(50%)(own design)FAI legalggower(at)informador.com.mxGuadalajara, Jalisco, MEXICOChapala Aerodrome Alt__________ N________ W_______ (when I get a GPS) "Cuando inducimos a alguien a nuestro deporte debemos ser firmes tambien enque mantenga optimo su estado fisico, entrenamiento y aeronave" - Julian Taber(When we involve anyone else in flying we should be held to a high standardin term of medical, trainnig and plane upkeeping - Julian Taber)________________________________________________________________________________
>Steve Eldredge wrote:>> >> Soon I will have everything together for my fuel system but I am still>> lacking two things. If you have a solution for either of these areas>> please post a response. I am looking for a primer unit, and a fuel site>> gauge solution. Aircraft Spruce has the "Stearman type" gauge on>> indefinate backorder, and the ACS primer is almost 60 bucks!>> >> I have had suggestions about using a snowmobile primer and wonder what>> else has been used with success.>> >> Stevee.>> >> BTW I am going with the latex covering procedure as outlined in the>> sport aviation article mentioned here a while back. The fuse is flat>> black and back on the gear. I 've got to put everything back together>> again to make sure I have everything right before the cover goes on the>> wings. One note of success is that my holes line up with the cables>> that pass through the fuse skin on the way back to the tailfeathers!>Steve.I have a continental A-80 in my Grega Aircamper and a J-3 fuel>tank. With gravity flow and a impulse mag, a couple of flips of the prop>and I am good to go. I find no need for the extra plumbing and expense>of a primer, also have the very reliable fuel gauge of J-3 fame, a wire>on a cork float, again no plumbing , no fuel leaks, and very acurate,>also keeps it very simple . Just a thought for you,others may disagree>as some folks like a lot of dials ,gauges and knobs . Regards. Ernie.>>Is a shame that Aircraft Spruce dont have the Stearman dial, I have one thatI am going to use in my 3 axis airplane (GTub). Try to talk to Jerry Aguilarat Aircraft Spruce, he is VERY patience and always willing to help, just tomake shure that they will continue selling them.Hold a little. This Dial is worth, in the mean time you can build the wingtank, the inner part (cork side) has 8" travel. I will put a drain valve inthe bottom of the dial to get the water out of the tank. Saludos (almost ready) EAA Chapter 1039 President ~1,800 VW 2 place "Gtub"(50%)(own design)FAI legalggower(at)informador.com.mxGuadalajara, Jalisco, MEXICOChapala Aerodrome Alt__________ N________ W_______ (when I get a GPS) "Cuando inducimos a alguien a nuestro deporte debemos ser firmes tambien enque mantenga optimo su estado fisico, entrenamiento y aeronave" - Julian Taber(When we involve anyone else in flying we should be held to a high standardin term of medical, trainnig and plane upkeeping - Julian Taber)________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: I need a primer for a-65
Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
Steve- If your impulse mag timing is set correctly and your carb is setup good too, you can skip a primer totally. Primer on our Champnever worked and we started the engine cold on 25 F days after about10 pulls thru until you heard fuel sucking around in the air filter.My Piet 65 is the same. No primer, works fine. MC________________________________________________________________________________
Steve- If your impulse mag timing is set correctly and your carb is setup good too, you can skip a primer totally. Primer on our Champnever worked and we started the engine cold on 25 F days after about10 pulls thru until you heard fuel sucking around in the air filter.My Piet 65 is the same. No primer, works fine. MC________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: I need a primer for a-65
Original Posted By: grhans(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Ernest Hagness wrote: Steve.I have a continental A-80 in my Grega Aircamper and a J-3 fuel tank. With gravity flow and a impulse mag, a couple of flips of the prop and I am good to go. I find no need for the extra plumbing and expense of a primer, also have the very reliable fuel gauge of J-3 fame, a wire on a cork float, again no plumbing , no fuel leaks, and very acurate, also keeps it very simple . Just a thought for you,others may disagree as some folks like a lot of dials ,gauges and knobs . Regards. Ernie.Thanks Ernie and Mike for the suggestions. I may just do away with theprimer totally. It wouldn't hurt my feelings. I think however thatboth of your airplanes have the fuel tank in the forware fuse. Mine isin the wing. Although a cork on a wire would work I don't think itwould be visible from the cockpit. Quite a pain to find someone to flyformation just to tell your fuel level. :)I have a question about inpulse mags. Is an impulse mag different thana regular mag only by virtue of being set differently? or it there aphysical difference. I have looked at the port side mag to see if Icould tell a difference, but they look the same.Stevee________________________________________________________________________________
Ernest Hagness wrote: Steve.I have a continental A-80 in my Grega Aircamper and a J-3 fuel tank. With gravity flow and a impulse mag, a couple of flips of the prop and I am good to go. I find no need for the extra plumbing and expense of a primer, also have the very reliable fuel gauge of J-3 fame, a wire on a cork float, again no plumbing , no fuel leaks, and very acurate, also keeps it very simple . Just a thought for you,others may disagree as some folks like a lot of dials ,gauges and knobs . Regards. Ernie.Thanks Ernie and Mike for the suggestions. I may just do away with theprimer totally. It wouldn't hurt my feelings. I think however thatboth of your airplanes have the fuel tank in the forware fuse. Mine isin the wing. Although a cork on a wire would work I don't think itwould be visible from the cockpit. Quite a pain to find someone to flyformation just to tell your fuel level. :)I have a question about inpulse mags. Is an impulse mag different thana regular mag only by virtue of being set differently? or it there aphysical difference. I have looked at the port side mag to see if Icould tell a difference, but they look the same.Stevee________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: I need a primer for a-65
Original Posted By: Gary Gower
Steve (Eldredge),Despite the added complexity of an engine primer, it can sometimesbe a valuable accessory. Many years ago I took my dad for a ride ina Piper PA 12 Super Cruiser and had the engine lose power shortly after takeoff with about 200 feet of altitude and not enough roomto land ahead. The engine didn't quit completely but wasn't producingenough power to keep us in the air, and ran roughly.I immediately applied carb heat, but that didn't help. To this day,about 45 years later, I don't know why I did it--but I unlocked the primer and the engine picked up. By pumping the primer very slowly,I was able to make an abbreviated circuit and land safely back onthe runway. As we rolled to a stop, the engine quit. I gave it a couple of shots of prime, and restarted it. We taxied clear of the runway and did a runup with absolutely no problems! I still don'tknow what the problem was, but suspect foreign matter in the fuelwas the culprit. (A check of the fuel revealed nothing and the prob-lem never came back, but it doesn't take much dirt in a carb to spoilyour day.)In this instance, I am convinced that the primer saved us from anasty situation. Also, I have heard of a couple of other similarincidents where the primer was effective as a backup fuel supplyto the engine.Once upon a time I fashioned a wing tank for my Piet but never used it.The "cork and wire" fuel gauge was incorporated in the fuel cap in theusual manner, but was bent into a "U" so that it ran back down througha vertical tube through the tank beside the filler neck. The wire hada little ball on its end and was to be inside a clear plastic tube thatprojected below the tank over the front cockpit in full view of thepilot at all times. you could make the vertical tube through the tankof a size that would enable you to slip the plastic tube over it andsecure it with a small clamp. Since the tube through the tank is a partof the tank, no leakage can occur.However, I never used this tank and eventually gave it away, so don't know how the gauge described worked out. Just an idea I thought I'd pass along anyway.Graham________________________________________________________________________________
Steve (Eldredge),Despite the added complexity of an engine primer, it can sometimesbe a valuable accessory. Many years ago I took my dad for a ride ina Piper PA 12 Super Cruiser and had the engine lose power shortly after takeoff with about 200 feet of altitude and not enough roomto land ahead. The engine didn't quit completely but wasn't producingenough power to keep us in the air, and ran roughly.I immediately applied carb heat, but that didn't help. To this day,about 45 years later, I don't know why I did it--but I unlocked the primer and the engine picked up. By pumping the primer very slowly,I was able to make an abbreviated circuit and land safely back onthe runway. As we rolled to a stop, the engine quit. I gave it a couple of shots of prime, and restarted it. We taxied clear of the runway and did a runup with absolutely no problems! I still don'tknow what the problem was, but suspect foreign matter in the fuelwas the culprit. (A check of the fuel revealed nothing and the prob-lem never came back, but it doesn't take much dirt in a carb to spoilyour day.)In this instance, I am convinced that the primer saved us from anasty situation. Also, I have heard of a couple of other similarincidents where the primer was effective as a backup fuel supplyto the engine.Once upon a time I fashioned a wing tank for my Piet but never used it.The "cork and wire" fuel gauge was incorporated in the fuel cap in theusual manner, but was bent into a "U" so that it ran back down througha vertical tube through the tank beside the filler neck. The wire hada little ball on its end and was to be inside a clear plastic tube thatprojected below the tank over the front cockpit in full view of thepilot at all times. you could make the vertical tube through the tankof a size that would enable you to slip the plastic tube over it andsecure it with a small clamp. Since the tube through the tank is a partof the tank, no leakage can occur.However, I never used this tank and eventually gave it away, so don't know how the gauge described worked out. Just an idea I thought I'd pass along anyway.Graham________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: I need a primer for a-65
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
> From Steve_Eldredge(at)byu.edu Thu Mar 13 11:36:14 1997> I have a question about inpulse mags. Is an impulse mag different than> a regular mag only by virtue of being set differently? or it there a> physical difference. I have looked at the port side mag to see if I> could tell a difference, but they look the same.> > SteveeSteveeThe impulse is inside the mag. You might call it a spring loadeddog drive. If the mag is turned over slowly the dogs grab and holdthe armature side. A spring coupling stores torque as the input of themag is turned until a certain point where the dogs let go and the springcoupling snaps the armature of the mag around at high speed to its normalposition. The short high speed spin produces a relatively hot spark. Asecondary effect is that the timing is retarded. Once the mag is drivenat high speed after the engine starts, centrifugal force prevents the dogs from engaging and the mag is operates normally. The impulse isbuilt into the mag at the mounting pad. If you have the mag off theairplane you can turn the input backwards and it will make a ratchetingclick click click.The coupling is a replacement for the drive gearbox in the front of themag and can be installed in any mag. There is no external difference tovisually identify it.With the mag on the engine, have someone slowly turn over the engine(switches off) as you put your hand on the mag housing at the base. As the impulse clicks over you should be able to feel it with your hand.Should be the left one.John KahnTech PubsCanadair Regional JetBomabardier Inc.Toronto________________________________________________________________________________
> From Steve_Eldredge(at)byu.edu Thu Mar 13 11:36:14 1997> I have a question about inpulse mags. Is an impulse mag different than> a regular mag only by virtue of being set differently? or it there a> physical difference. I have looked at the port side mag to see if I> could tell a difference, but they look the same.> > SteveeSteveeThe impulse is inside the mag. You might call it a spring loadeddog drive. If the mag is turned over slowly the dogs grab and holdthe armature side. A spring coupling stores torque as the input of themag is turned until a certain point where the dogs let go and the springcoupling snaps the armature of the mag around at high speed to its normalposition. The short high speed spin produces a relatively hot spark. Asecondary effect is that the timing is retarded. Once the mag is drivenat high speed after the engine starts, centrifugal force prevents the dogs from engaging and the mag is operates normally. The impulse isbuilt into the mag at the mounting pad. If you have the mag off theairplane you can turn the input backwards and it will make a ratchetingclick click click.The coupling is a replacement for the drive gearbox in the front of themag and can be installed in any mag. There is no external difference tovisually identify it.With the mag on the engine, have someone slowly turn over the engine(switches off) as you put your hand on the mag housing at the base. As the impulse clicks over you should be able to feel it with your hand.Should be the left one.John KahnTech PubsCanadair Regional JetBomabardier Inc.Toronto________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: I need a primer for a-65
Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
>I have a question about inpulse mags. Is an impulse mag different than>a regular mag only by virtue of being set differently?Steve-An impulse mag is physically different by virture of an internal coulping which disengages itself after your engine starts and gets above about 3 or 400 rpm. It is the mag you hear'clicking' while turning over the prop before switch on. Someplanes have none, some one, some both. The implulse mag isthe one you use to start the engine on. If your impulse mag is theleft, you start the engine on L and after she fires go to BOTH.If both mags are impulse type, then start on BOTH. The impulsemag retards the spark and does not fire until the #1 cyl. piston isat the very top of its travel. This keeps the prop from kicking backon your hands and gives you good 'umpfh' on that piston once itdoes fire. After the engine starts, that impulse coupling disengagesand the impulse mag fires happily along at about 28-30 degreesbefore top dead center, just like the other non-impulse mag.(that is for a 65 cont.) I'd bet there are some very experiencedguys reading this who could explain it better and advise you onhow to do it yourself. I thank Don Helmick by me for loaning mehis timing light box and 50 years of experince to help me get itright. Whew- we've got to keep passing this info down to thenew kids. MC________________________________________________________________________________
>I have a question about inpulse mags. Is an impulse mag different than>a regular mag only by virtue of being set differently?Steve-An impulse mag is physically different by virture of an internal coulping which disengages itself after your engine starts and gets above about 3 or 400 rpm. It is the mag you hear'clicking' while turning over the prop before switch on. Someplanes have none, some one, some both. The implulse mag isthe one you use to start the engine on. If your impulse mag is theleft, you start the engine on L and after she fires go to BOTH.If both mags are impulse type, then start on BOTH. The impulsemag retards the spark and does not fire until the #1 cyl. piston isat the very top of its travel. This keeps the prop from kicking backon your hands and gives you good 'umpfh' on that piston once itdoes fire. After the engine starts, that impulse coupling disengagesand the impulse mag fires happily along at about 28-30 degreesbefore top dead center, just like the other non-impulse mag.(that is for a 65 cont.) I'd bet there are some very experiencedguys reading this who could explain it better and advise you onhow to do it yourself. I thank Don Helmick by me for loaning mehis timing light box and 50 years of experince to help me get itright. Whew- we've got to keep passing this info down to thenew kids. MC________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: I need a primer for a-65
Original Posted By: grhans(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Michael D Cuy wrote:much good stuff about inpulse mag deleted Whew- we've got to keep passing this info down to the new kids. MCI'll say. Thanks for the information on the mags. This list is great.I have heard the clicking sound in my mag. I will have to see if I canfeel the difference when I get my engine hung again. I have juststarted to reassemble everything after painting the fuse. I imaginethat I must have impulse mags, because this engine has been hand proppedfor the last 50+ years.STevee________________________________________________________________________________
Michael D Cuy wrote:much good stuff about inpulse mag deleted Whew- we've got to keep passing this info down to the new kids. MCI'll say. Thanks for the information on the mags. This list is great.I have heard the clicking sound in my mag. I will have to see if I canfeel the difference when I get my engine hung again. I have juststarted to reassemble everything after painting the fuse. I imaginethat I must have impulse mags, because this engine has been hand proppedfor the last 50+ years.STevee________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: I need a primer for a-65
Original Posted By: grhans(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
>I cut one of these down and re-marked it to fit the Piet tank. My onlyproblem is I located it in the deepest section area of the tank which alsohappens to play havoc with a big guy trying to enter the front cockpit. Imay move it back 8-12" so that access to the front tank is easier.John________________________________________________________________________________
>I cut one of these down and re-marked it to fit the Piet tank. My onlyproblem is I located it in the deepest section area of the tank which alsohappens to play havoc with a big guy trying to enter the front cockpit. Imay move it back 8-12" so that access to the front tank is easier.John________________________________________________________________________________