Pietenpol-List: Piet owners and builders

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Tue Jun 15, 1999 9:31 pm

Original Posted By:>> > RGASKIN
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders>Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a>couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not be>to others.>>1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started with a>dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it but>later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even>expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2>wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE makes>one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company

. Otherwise you'll>constantly be replacing them.>>2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can>then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fitting>tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane. However,>you still have a tube engine mount

.>>3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.>I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal>blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying>success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a>neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I>finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.>>They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there>are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use>1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive>(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught>metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go>fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the>lines, but it works well.>>Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was>done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the>right tools.Hope this helps.>>Ken.>>>On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:>>> Randy,>> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh,NC.>> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal>> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer>> than plans this time).>>>> Where are you?>>>> -Bill>>>> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jun 16, 1999 12:11 pm

Original Posted By: dannymac
Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and VA? TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jun 16, 1999 1:58 pm

Original Posted By:> RGASKIN
Randy,I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh, NC.Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metalfittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer than plans this time). Where are you?-Bill> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jun 16, 1999 2:25 pm

Original Posted By:> > RGASKIN
Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have acouple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not beto others.1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started with adinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it butlater bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Evenexpensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE makesone (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company

. Otherwise you'llconstantly be replacing them.2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You canthen round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fittingtube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane. However,you still have a tube engine mount

.3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder. I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metalblades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varyingsuccess. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by aneighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until Ifinally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and thereare a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throughtmetal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels gofairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside thelines, but it works well. Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work wasdone. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with theright tools.Hope this helps.Ken.On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:> Randy,> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh, NC.> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer > than plans this time). > > Where are you?> > -Bill> > > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jun 16, 1999 2:44 pm

Original Posted By: Earl Myers
Ken,That's great advise that will save hundreds of hours for the builders like myself who are just starting. Got any advice for bending?________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jun 16, 1999 4:24 pm

Original Posted By: dannymac
Aviod it

. Truthfully, that's exactly what I did. The tail was supposedto be a bow, like the Cub/Aeronca. Instead, it is now like a Citabria,squared off. Part of the reason for that was that I've always liked thelook of the Citabria and Scout and part was the dreaded bending. The fuselage only required small angle bends which I did by heating andcarefully bending. Finally, I substituted laminated doug fir instead of4130 for the wingtip bows. However, there are several proven nethods for bending tube. There areseveral methods described in the Bingelis (sp?) books. I tried the sandmethod and it worked OK. This is where the tube is filled with wet sand anthen heated and bent. The sand will help retain the original round crosssection. Some commercial tube benders are also available from hardwarestores for the sizes we work with. Fortunately, electrical conduit is 3/4"dia as well. However, they are only available in one bend radius. A largerradius can be approximately by doing a number of short, small radius bendsalong the length of tubing.Hope this helps.KenOn Wed, 16 Jun 1999 User554784(at)aol.com wrote:> Ken,> > That's great advise that will save hundreds of hours for the builders like > myself who are just starting. Got any advice for bending?> ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jun 16, 1999 11:29 pm

Original Posted By:>>> Ken Beanlands
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders>OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080, .090>etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a>metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slow a>Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?)I did it on mine with a jackshaft and pulleys mounted to the back of thesaws base. Blades are reasonably cheap.You need to get the saw speed down around 150 feet/min.The other good tool is a sturdy hacksaw with a fine 32 tooth good qualityblade. It is amazing what can be done with simple tools.and skills learned in what my students call the "hacksaw and file club"Buy the best hack saw frame and blades and files that you can find. They arerelatively cheap compared to the fustration of poor tools. John Mc>>What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held tool>>with an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheel attached>>to one end at 90 degrees to the motor.>>>>Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at>>http://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW ... >Ken>>>>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:>>>>> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a die>>> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?>>> -----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 12:09 am

Original Posted By:>> Ken Beanlands
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders>What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held tool>with an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheel attached>to one end at 90 degrees to the motor.>>Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at>http://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW ... =>>Ken>>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:>>> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a die>> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?>> -----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 1:07 am

Original Posted By: walter evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders>Sounds good. The trick is to get the thinnest cutting wheel you can get>like a 1/16" or 3/32". That way you aren't cutting out too much metal.>Make sure you clamp down the work in a vice or with C-clamps. Take>standard precautions like wear safety glasses, dust mask, long sleaves,>gloves and ear protectors and watch those sparks. Make sure you are using>2 hands on the grinder.>>When your cutting, keep well outside the line to start as you will>generally tend to grind away a little more behind the leading edge of>the cut as the blade continues down the work. Besides, it's always pretty>easy to use the flat part of the grinding disk to bring the cut down to>the line when your done. Try and use an ink that contrasts well against>the metal.>>Oh yeahm to slow down your bandsaw, you would need to replace teh pulleys>to change the gear ratio between the moter and lower drive wheel.>>Hope this helps,>Ken>>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:>>> OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080,.090>> etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a>> metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slowa>> Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?) so you have got methinking>> about die grinders (or side grinders). Might be a good way to go.>>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 2:47 am

Original Posted By:>> User554784(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders>I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig usingheavy steel>channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45degree>angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is groundto approximate>the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a20 ton bottle>jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.>>I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think thebottle jack>was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but itworks.>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:44:12 -0400 (EDT)

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 3:29 am

Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Ken,What do you mean by a side grinder? Is that a hand held grinder?Also, anyone going to be at the North West EAA fly-in at Arlington withtheir Piet?Thanks,Brent Reed----- Original Message -----________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 6:45 am

Original Posted By:> User554784(at)aol.com
I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using heavysteelchannel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45 degreeangle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is ground toapproximate the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a 20 tonbottlejack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend. I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the bottlejack was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but it works.> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:44:12 -0400 (EDT)

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 4:05 pm

Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a diegrinder with a cutting wheel on it?-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 5:01 pm

Original Posted By:> Ken Beanlands
What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held toolwith an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheel attachedto one end at 90 degrees to the motor.Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look athttp://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW400&cat=GRD&id2=KenOn Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a die> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?> -----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 5:32 pm

Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080, .090etc sheet. Can't really afford to add ametal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slow aDelta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?) so you have got me thinkingabout die grinders (or side grinders). Might be a good way to go.-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 6:01 pm

Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Sounds good. The trick is to get the thinnest cutting wheel you can getlike a 1/16" or 3/32". That way you aren't cutting out too much metal. Make sure you clamp down the work in a vice or with C-clamps. Takestandard precautions like wear safety glasses, dust mask, long sleaves,gloves and ear protectors and watch those sparks. Make sure you are using2 hands on the grinder.When your cutting, keep well outside the line to start as you willgenerally tend to grind away a little more behind the leading edge ofthe cut as the blade continues down the work. Besides, it's always prettyeasy to use the flat part of the grinding disk to bring the cut down tothe line when your done. Try and use an ink that contrasts well againstthe metal.Oh yeahm to slow down your bandsaw, you would need to replace teh pulleysto change the gear ratio between the moter and lower drive wheel.Hope this helps,KenOn Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:> OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080, .090> etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a> metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slow a> Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?) so you have got me thinking> about die grinders (or side grinders). Might be a good way to go.________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 6:43 pm

Original Posted By: William C. Beerman
William,Your bending brake sounds like a handy tool to have available. would yougive us more information on how to build it, and maybe a picture or two tomake it easier to understand. thanks, Sam-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jun 17, 1999 9:50 pm

Original Posted By: kyle ray
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending press>Sam,>I'll try and get some pictures together some time next week (I'll need>to borrow a camera), and send them directly to you. I got the idea>fom a gentleman at Brodhead lest year.....>>-Bill>>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:43:26 -0400>From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI >Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders>To: Pietenpol Discussion >MIME-version: 1.0>Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion" >X-Listname: >> William,>Your bending brake sounds like a handy tool to have available. would you>give us more information on how to build it, and maybe a picture or two to>make it easier to understand. thanks, Sam>-----Original Message----->From: William C. Beerman >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 7:47 AM>Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders>>>>I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using>heavy steel>>channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45>degree>>angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron isground>to approximate>>the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a>20 ton bottle>>jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.>>>>I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the>bottle jack>>was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but it>works.>>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 18, 1999 2:01 am

Original Posted By: Mike Cunningham
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders>And my $.02....>>Use a benchtop belt sander with a course belt to finish shape 4130. You'll>be amazed how well it works. Cut to 1/16" or so outside the line and then>sand it down.>>John>>-----Original Message----->From: Sayre, William G >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 12:58 PM>Subject: RE: Piet owners and builders>>>>>> "I have done a little cutting with a "metal cutting" blade in the jigsaw,>it's pretty slow going and awkward.">>>>My 2 cents - I find that Bi-metal blades really make a difference (in a>jigsaw) but are more expensive. I too utilize the tip of grinding theblade>away behind the leading edge (making a skinny blade) when I want a blade>that makes good sharp turns while cutting (go slow and don't overheat the>blade!). Unmodified blades work best for straight lines.>>>>Ultimately, I use a metal cutting band-saw or if the part is too big I'll>rough it out with a jigsaw, finish cuts on the band-saw, then if necessary>grind or file to finish. Final step is to de-burr with a file.>>>>I have found more uses than I thought I would for my hand-held diskgrinder>also. Especially useful if you need to tack pieces together (gas-weld) and>separate later. Careful application of the grinder works great. Cutting>off frozen nuts or bolt-heads, grinding smooth and then punching bolts out>has been proven useful also (Other projects obviously).>>>>Whatever that's worth.>>>>Bill Sayre>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 18, 1999 7:58 am

Original Posted By: Gary Gower
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Piet owners and builders>> "I have done a little cutting with a "metal cutting" blade in the jigsaw,it's pretty slow going and awkward.">>My 2 cents - I find that Bi-metal blades really make a difference (in ajigsaw) but are more expensive. I too utilize the tip of grinding the bladeaway behind the leading edge (making a skinny blade) when I want a bladethat makes good sharp turns while cutting (go slow and don't overheat theblade!). Unmodified blades work best for straight lines.>>Ultimately, I use a metal cutting band-saw or if the part is too big I'llrough it out with a jigsaw, finish cuts on the band-saw, then if necessarygrind or file to finish. Final step is to de-burr with a file.>>I have found more uses than I thought I would for my hand-held disk grinderalso. Especially useful if you need to tack pieces together (gas-weld) andseparate later. Careful application of the grinder works great. Cuttingoff frozen nuts or bolt-heads, grinding smooth and then punching bolts outhas been proven useful also (Other projects obviously).>>Whatever that's worth.>>Bill Sayre>>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 18, 1999 10:11 am

Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Great info Ken. I recently cut all the spar fittings for my Hatz using afoot shear which was a real fast way torough them out. Is there a particular make/model grinder that you have hadsuccess with? (was that the link you sent before? if so could ya' send itagain?) Also gotta try Dougs hacksaw blade in the jigsaw. I have done alittle cutting with a "metal cutting" blade in the jigsaw, it's pretty slowgoing and awkward.-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 18, 1999 12:55 pm

Original Posted By: Mike Cunningham
"I have done a little cutting with a "metal cutting" blade in the jigsaw,it's pretty slow going and awkward."My 2 cents - I find that Bi-metal blades really make a difference (in a jigsaw)but are more expensive. I too utilize the tip of grinding the blade away behindthe leading edge (making a skinny blade) when I want a blade that makes goodsharp turns while cutting (go slow and don't overheat the blade!). Unmodifiedblades work best for straight lines.Ultimately, I use a metal cutting band-saw or if the part is too big I'll roughit out with a jigsaw, finish cuts on the band-saw, then if necessary grind orfile to finish. Final step is to de-burr with a file.I have found more uses than I thought I would for my hand-held disk grinder also.Especially useful if you need to tack pieces together (gas-weld) and separatelater. Careful application of the grinder works great. Cutting off frozennuts or bolt-heads, grinding smooth and then punching bolts out has been provenuseful also (Other projects obviously).Whatever that's worth.Bill Sayre________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 18, 1999 6:24 pm

Original Posted By: John Greenlee
Ken,I've cut up to .125 4130 sheet for my landing gear (Grega GN-1) with noproblems. Here's how.I built a 2' by 2' frame of 2x4 s. Then put a sheet of 1/2 " plywoodover it to form a small "table" Then I cut out a 9" slit about 1/2"wide in it.Next I bought a steel cut-off blade for a spare old black and deckercircular hand saw. These are readily available at Lowes, etc. I boughtmine for about 3.00 or so. I then put the blade on the circular saw andmounted it upside down on the table with the blade sticking up throughhe table. I taped the trigger down and plugged it into a switchedelectrical "strip" so I can turn it on easily. I then clam,ped thewhole rig into my clamping work table. It basically becomes a table sawwith a cut-off saw. It will cut like crazy.Beware. You must be VERY VERY Careful. Use Eye and ear protection. Very loud and tons of sparks (aka minute metal debris)Use gloves - metal gets super hot . Works great - is very fast. Cutssheet or tubing . Does a GREAT job on .090 and down.If I have confused you , sorry, I can post picture if you want. GoodLuck.Happy Aviating, Bert Conoly http://www.bwmproductions.com/GN1Ken Beanlands wrote:> > Sounds good. The trick is to get the thinnest cutting wheel you can get> like a 1/16" or 3/32". That way you aren't cutting out too much metal.> Make sure you clamp down the work in a vice or with C-clamps. Take> standard precautions like wear safety glasses, dust mask, long sleaves,> gloves and ear protectors and watch those sparks. Make sure you are using> 2 hands on the grinder.> > When your cutting, keep well outside the line to start as you will> generally tend to grind away a little more behind the leading edge of> the cut as the blade continues down the work. Besides, it's always pretty> easy to use the flat part of the grinding disk to bring the cut down to> the line when your done. Try and use an ink that contrasts well against> the metal.> > Oh yeahm to slow down your bandsaw, you would need to replace teh pulleys> to change the gear ratio between the moter and lower drive wheel.> > Hope this helps,> Ken> > On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:> > > OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080, .090> > etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a> > metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slow a> > Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?) so you have got me thinking> > about die grinders (or side grinders). Might be a good way to go.> ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 18, 1999 6:53 pm

Original Posted By: Sayre, William G
And my $.02....Use a benchtop belt sander with a course belt to finish shape 4130. You'llbe amazed how well it works. Cut to 1/16" or so outside the line and thensand it down.John-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 18, 1999 7:48 pm

Original Posted By: Gary Gower
Hi guys (and Ladies):I need to purchase some turn buckles (I cant remember the AN number) formy tail group bracing and elevator/rudder controls. Where would be thebest place to get them so I wont have sell a kid or something?. Theresa company that goes to Sun n Fun every year (B&B something-or-the-other)that has LOTS of surplus as well as new equipment. I've bought a lot ofhardware there but never got their address. Do ya'll (yes I'm in thesouth) have the address?ThanksBert (Who's roasting in Tallahassee)Please visit my GN site at http://www.bwmproductions.com/GN1See Yaaah!________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 18, 1999 8:15 pm

Original Posted By:>> Ken Beanlands
Ahhh!

>What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held tool>with an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheel attached>to one end at 90 degrees to the motor.>>Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at>http://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW ... =>>Ken>>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:>>> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a die>> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?>> -----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 18, 1999 11:29 pm

Original Posted By: Sanders Family
look in the for sale section of the BPA web site and you will find anadvertisement for turnbuckles at $6.00 each. They are new surplus and arejust what you want.Phil________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jun 19, 1999 9:05 pm

Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
For turnbuckles, try-Joe Czaplicki. e-mail address: fishin(at)wwa.comPhil________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sun Jun 20, 1999 3:34 pm

Original Posted By: dannymac
Are the turnbuckles in the BPA still available?>From: Phil Phillips >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders>Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:29:19 -0700>>look in the for sale section of the BPA web site and you will find an>advertisement for turnbuckles at $6.00 each. They are new surplus and are>just what you want.>Phil________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Jun 21, 1999 9:20 am

Original Posted By: John Greenlee
Also found that the disk sander is the best for making indentical parts instacks such as the spar fittings (4 ea.).-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By:> > > RGASKIN

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By:> >> > RGASKIN
> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders> > > >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not be> >to others.> >> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started with a> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it but> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE makes> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company

. Otherwise you'll> >constantly be replacing them.> >> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fitting> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane. However,> >you still have a tube engine mount

.> >> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.> >> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the> >lines, but it works well.> >> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the> >right tools.Hope this helps.> >> >Ken.> >> >> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:> >> >> Randy,> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh,> NC.> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer> >> than plans this time).> >>> >> Where are you?> >>> >> -Bill> >>> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By:>> >> > RGASKIN
>> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders>>>>>> >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a>> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may notbe>> >to others.>> >>> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started witha>> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched itbut>> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even>> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2>> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GEmakes>> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company

. Otherwiseyou'll>> >constantly be replacing them.>> >>> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can>> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fitting>> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane.However,>> >you still have a tube engine mount

.>> >>> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.>> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal>> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying>> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a>> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I>> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.>> >>> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there>> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use>> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive>> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught>> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go>> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the>> >lines, but it works well.>> >>> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was>> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the>> >right tools.Hope this helps.>> >>> >Ken.>> >>> >>> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:>> >>> >> Randy,>> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet inRaleigh,>> NC.>> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal>> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer>> >> than plans this time).>> >>>> >> Where are you?>> >>>> >> -Bill>> >>>> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By:>>> >> > RGASKIN
>>> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders>>>>>>>>> >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a>>> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not>be>>> >to others.>>> >>>> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I startedwith>a>>> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it>but>>> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even>>> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2>>> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE>makes>>> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company

. Otherwise>you'll>>> >constantly be replacing them.>>> >>>> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can>>> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops forfitting>>> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane.>However,>>> >you still have a tube engine mount

.>>> >>>> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.>>> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw,metal>>> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying>>> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a>>> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I>>> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried itearlier.>>> >>>> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) andthere>>> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use>>> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive>>> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught>>> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go>>> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the>>> >lines, but it works well.>>> >>>> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was>>> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the>>> >right tools.Hope this helps.>>> >>>> >Ken.>>> >>>> >>>> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:>>> >>>> >> Randy,>>> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in>Raleigh,>>> NC.>>> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal>>> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a littlelonger>>> >> than plans this time).>>> >>>>> >> Where are you?>>> >>>>> >> -Bill>>> >>>>> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By:> >>> Ken Beanlands
> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders> > > >OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080,.090> >etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a> >metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how toslow a> >Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?)> > I did it on mine with a jackshaft and pulleys mounted to the back of the> saws base. Blades are reasonably cheap.> You need to get the saw speed down around 150 feet/min.> The other good tool is a sturdy hacksaw with a fine 32 tooth good quality> blade. It is amazing what can be done with simple tools.> and skills learned in what my students call the "hacksaw and file club"> Buy the best hack saw frame and blades and files that you can find. Theyare> relatively cheap compared to the fustration of poor tools.> John Mc> > > >>What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held tool> >>with an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheelattached> >>to one end at 90 degrees to the motor.> >>> >>Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at> >>http://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW400&cat=GRD&id2=> >>> >>Ken> >>> >>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:> >>> >>> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like adie> >>> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?> >>> -----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By:> >>> >> > RGASKIN
> >>> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders> >>>> >>>> >>> >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I dohave a> >>> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but maynot> >be> >>> >to others.> >>> >> >>> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started> with> >a> >>> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touchedit> >but> >>> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even> >>> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and2> >>> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE> >makes> >>> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company

. Otherwise> >you'll> >>> >constantly be replacing them.> >>> >> >>> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. Youcan> >>> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for> fitting> >>> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane.> >However,> >>> >you still have a tube engine mount

.> >>> >> >>> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a sidegrinder.> >>> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw,> metal> >>> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw withvarying> >>> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a> >>> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year untilI> >>> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it> earlier.> >>> >> >>> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and> there> >>> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generallyuse> >>> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are notexpensive> >>> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cutthrought> >>> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheelsgo> >>> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outsidethe> >>> >lines, but it works well.> >>> >> >>> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was> >>> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the> >>> >right tools.Hope this helps.> >>> >> >>> >Ken.> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:> >>> >> >>> >> Randy,> >>> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in> >Raleigh,> >>> NC.> >>> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through themetal> >>> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little> longer> >>> >> than plans this time).> >>> >>> >>> >> Where are you?> >>> >>> >>> >> -Bill> >>> >>> >>> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By:>> >> > RGASKIN
>> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders>> >> >> >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a>> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not be>> >to others.>> >>> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started with a>> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it but>> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even>> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2>> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE makes>> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company

. Otherwise you'll>> >constantly be replacing them.>> >>> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can>> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fitting>> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane. However,>> >you still have a tube engine mount

.>> >>> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.>> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal>> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying>> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a>> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I>> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.>> >>> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there>> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use>> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive>> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught>> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go>> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the>> >lines, but it works well.>> >>> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was>> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the>> >right tools.Hope this helps.>> >>> >Ken.>> >>> >>> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:>> >>> >> Randy,>> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh,>> NC.>> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal>> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer>> >> than plans this time).>> >>>> >> Where are you?>> >>>> >> -Bill>> >>>> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By: Ed0248(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders> > >I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using> heavy steel> >channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45> degree> >angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is ground> to approximate> >the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a> 20 ton bottle> >jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.> >> >I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the> bottle jack> >was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but it> works.> >________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By: tim moosey
> > Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders> >> > >I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using> > heavy steel> > >channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45> > degree> > >angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is ground> > to approximate> > >the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a> > 20 ton bottle> > >jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.> > >> > >I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the> > bottle jack> > >was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but it> > works.> > >________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Original Posted By: Earl Myers
> > > Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders> > >> > > >I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using> > > heavy steel> > > >channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a45> > > degree> > > >angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is ground> > > to approximate> > > >the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered bya> > > 20 ton bottle> > > >jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.> > > >> > > >I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the> > > bottle jack> > > >was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, butit> > > works.> > > >> ________________________________________________________________________________