Original Posted By: Gary Gower
Has anyone installed a fuselage tank instead of the wing tanks? I'm planning to use a Continental engine and I've read that you don't need the forward tray if your going this route. Are there plans for building a fuselage tank or is it an off-the-shelf item? How should it be installed inside the fuselage? I've also read that you want to make the engine mount brackets slightly longer to account for a fire cloth and sheet metal face, but how much longer should it be? Lastly, can anyone give me some more info. on the type of fire cloth to use and the gauge of the sheet metal face?Thank youJacob ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Pietenpol-List: RE: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: Burroughs
Interesting. ON the tailwind list they are trying to go from the fuse tothe wing with their fuel. Just a little irony.Steve EldredgeIT ServicesBrigham Young University________________________________________________________________________________
Interesting. ON the tailwind list they are trying to go from the fuse tothe wing with their fuel. Just a little irony.Steve EldredgeIT ServicesBrigham Young University________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: John Weikel
Gary Leopold:: I thought you could drive over after work, but It isabout 400 miles.(W. KS) I pulled my tank halves from molds yesterday.Came out better than I thought. Some pin holes and imperfections toclean up. My molds took a beating, But that was my fault. Tank is VERYlight. Measured at side wall, 4 layers are about 1/8 in thick. GaryPrice shows no baffels, but I am going to add a couple to the top to getsome stiffness at fille neck area and one across the bottom. Bengalissays a tank over 5 gal, should have baffles any way. Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________
Gary Leopold:: I thought you could drive over after work, but It isabout 400 miles.(W. KS) I pulled my tank halves from molds yesterday.Came out better than I thought. Some pin holes and imperfections toclean up. My molds took a beating, But that was my fault. Tank is VERYlight. Measured at side wall, 4 layers are about 1/8 in thick. GaryPrice shows no baffels, but I am going to add a couple to the top to getsome stiffness at fille neck area and one across the bottom. Bengalissays a tank over 5 gal, should have baffles any way. Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: "William C. Beerman"
As difficult it is to fuel the center section tank, it be made somewhateasier by locating the filler neck at the fwd corner of the tank ratherthan at the center of the tank.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:15:18 -0500
As difficult it is to fuel the center section tank, it be made somewhateasier by locating the filler neck at the fwd corner of the tank ratherthan at the center of the tank.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:15:18 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fairlead material
Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
William, I was looking at mine the other night, and I think I'm going to use pulleys under the seat for the rudder cables too, that's a pretty big change of direction for a fairlead seems to me like. I think most fairlead material is a phenolic material. But I don't know why some sort of plastic wouldn't work and even be better. Wicks or ACS has it.Is your elevator cable still hitting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer with the stick centered? There's no way to prevent this on the ground, but with the elevator in the flying position, it should be plenty clear. Those rub pads are just for when the plane is sitting on the ground. You might engineer some sort of control lock to hold the stick more or less centered while the plane is parked. No torque tube knowledge yet. But soon!Gary Meadows________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:46:29 -0600
William, I was looking at mine the other night, and I think I'm going to use pulleys under the seat for the rudder cables too, that's a pretty big change of direction for a fairlead seems to me like. I think most fairlead material is a phenolic material. But I don't know why some sort of plastic wouldn't work and even be better. Wicks or ACS has it.Is your elevator cable still hitting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer with the stick centered? There's no way to prevent this on the ground, but with the elevator in the flying position, it should be plenty clear. Those rub pads are just for when the plane is sitting on the ground. You might engineer some sort of control lock to hold the stick more or less centered while the plane is parked. No torque tube knowledge yet. But soon!Gary Meadows________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:46:29 -0600
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fairlead material
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fairlead materialIn a message dated 3/1/01 7:35:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com writes:> ,> > I was looking at mine the other night, and I think I'm going to use > pulleys under the seat for the rudder cables too, that's a pretty big > change > of direction for a fairlead seems to me like. I think most fairlead > material > is a phenolic material. But I don't know why some sort of plastic wouldn't > work and even be better. Wicks or ACS has it.> > Is your elevator cable still hitting the leading edge of the horizontal > stabilizer with the stick centered? There's no way to prevent this on the > ground, but with the elevator in the flying position, it should be plenty > clear. Those rub pads are just for when the plane is sitting on the ground. > You might engineer some sort of control lock to hold the stick more or less > centered while the plane is parked.> > No torque tube knowledge yet. But soon!> > I use hard wood blocks left over from the ash beams for the ones under the pilot seat and nothing but a leather doubler on the ones which pass thru the fabric. If you use pulleys, make sure they have cable jump protection. Pulleys are not needed, but OK. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 13:13:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fairlead materialIn a message dated 3/1/01 7:35:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com writes:> ,> > I was looking at mine the other night, and I think I'm going to use > pulleys under the seat for the rudder cables too, that's a pretty big > change > of direction for a fairlead seems to me like. I think most fairlead > material > is a phenolic material. But I don't know why some sort of plastic wouldn't > work and even be better. Wicks or ACS has it.> > Is your elevator cable still hitting the leading edge of the horizontal > stabilizer with the stick centered? There's no way to prevent this on the > ground, but with the elevator in the flying position, it should be plenty > clear. Those rub pads are just for when the plane is sitting on the ground. > You might engineer some sort of control lock to hold the stick more or less > centered while the plane is parked.> > No torque tube knowledge yet. But soon!> > I use hard wood blocks left over from the ash beams for the ones under the pilot seat and nothing but a leather doubler on the ones which pass thru the fabric. If you use pulleys, make sure they have cable jump protection. Pulleys are not needed, but OK. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 13:13:09 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fairlead material
Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fairlead material
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fairlead material
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: del magsam
RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: "Kent Hallsten"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tankHi Kip: I'm not sure exactly what the tank capacity is. I'll have tolook at his adds in some of the old issue's of the news letter. Ireally wasn't concerned about extra capacity, (although it's more thenthe stock Piet. tank.) I bought all of Prices plans and the tank lookedgood so I went with it. I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I stillneed to test it for leaks. I plan to use an accurate gallon measure tofind the true capacity.Bert C. wrote: "Man I'll be glad when I'm threw with this stupidairplane.".......I hear you brother, but be careful about bad mouthingour "stupid" airplane. I just got a butt chewing from Corky for badmouthing the sorry plans. I made most of my mistakes before learningabout this web sight and had no one around to ask questions to. I tookit on blind faith that after 50 years of building airplanes Mr. Piet.was selling cleaned up debugged plans. 5 years ago I bought a set ofplans for Don Sauser's 82% P6-E Hawk. I don't know if I'll ever buildit, but up until he died last year I got a constant stream of updatesand corrections to those plans. Some where out there, there are Pietbuilders who don't know about this sight. They are relying solely on theplans and making the same mistakes over, and over, and over..... . LeonS. Taking Corky's butt chewing in good spirits.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tankDate: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:19:27 -0600
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tankHi Kip: I'm not sure exactly what the tank capacity is. I'll have tolook at his adds in some of the old issue's of the news letter. Ireally wasn't concerned about extra capacity, (although it's more thenthe stock Piet. tank.) I bought all of Prices plans and the tank lookedgood so I went with it. I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I stillneed to test it for leaks. I plan to use an accurate gallon measure tofind the true capacity.Bert C. wrote: "Man I'll be glad when I'm threw with this stupidairplane.".......I hear you brother, but be careful about bad mouthingour "stupid" airplane. I just got a butt chewing from Corky for badmouthing the sorry plans. I made most of my mistakes before learningabout this web sight and had no one around to ask questions to. I tookit on blind faith that after 50 years of building airplanes Mr. Piet.was selling cleaned up debugged plans. 5 years ago I bought a set ofplans for Don Sauser's 82% P6-E Hawk. I don't know if I'll ever buildit, but up until he died last year I got a constant stream of updatesand corrections to those plans. Some where out there, there are Pietbuilders who don't know about this sight. They are relying solely on theplans and making the same mistakes over, and over, and over..... . LeonS. Taking Corky's butt chewing in good spirits.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tankDate: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:19:27 -0600
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: Hans Vander Voort
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tankBeside having a fuel tank that won't melt from ethanol, what else wouldbe required to make a Model A Piet E-85 compatible. ? Anyone? Leon S.Looking to the future.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tankBeside having a fuel tank that won't melt from ethanol, what else wouldbe required to make a Model A Piet E-85 compatible. ? Anyone? Leon S.Looking to the future.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: gus notti
Leon,All your gaskets and plastic parts in your carburetor.Hans lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Sent by: To owner-pietenpol-l pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ist-server@matron cc ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank 02/01/2007 08:40 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Beside having a fuel tank that won't melt from ethanol, what else wouldbe required to make a Model A Piet E-85 compatible. ? Anyone? Leon S.Looking to the future.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:18:53 -0800 (PST)
Leon,All your gaskets and plastic parts in your carburetor.Hans lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Sent by: To owner-pietenpol-l pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ist-server@matron cc ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank 02/01/2007 08:40 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Beside having a fuel tank that won't melt from ethanol, what else wouldbe required to make a Model A Piet E-85 compatible. ? Anyone? Leon S.Looking to the future.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:18:53 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings?
Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings?In a message dated 2/1/2007 11:24:00 AM Central Standard Time, gus_notti(at)yahoo.com writes:I need to know should the fabric have some type of physical attachment besides just glue?I'm a tube and fabric guy, but the wings on this Pietenpol are just glued.I know the school of though on the 'Peeling' for the fabric. I'm thinking I might rib stitch them or screw attach them ( what can I use for wood ribs besides stitching)?Do they need it?Gus,Yes, the wings should be rib stitched, not screwed. There's simply no other way than the tried and true. If there's not paint on the wing, you're good togo. If there's paint, it will take more work.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings?In a message dated 2/1/2007 11:24:00 AM Central Standard Time, gus_notti(at)yahoo.com writes:I need to know should the fabric have some type of physical attachment besides just glue?I'm a tube and fabric guy, but the wings on this Pietenpol are just glued.I know the school of though on the 'Peeling' for the fabric. I'm thinking I might rib stitch them or screw attach them ( what can I use for wood ribs besides stitching)?Do they need it?Gus,Yes, the wings should be rib stitched, not screwed. There's simply no other way than the tried and true. If there's not paint on the wing, you're good togo. If there's paint, it will take more work.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings?
Original Posted By: "MICHAEL SILVIUS"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings?Gus,Yes, wings should always have some means of fabric attachment along the ribs. If you have aluminum ribs, you can use screws (a-la-Aeronca Champ). Ifyou have wood ribs, you need to use rib stitching. Even at these slow speeds,a little corner of fabric coming loose from the glue could start "flagging" and result in disaster so fast it would make your head spin. I think this iswhat happened to Steve Whittman if I am not mistaken in his "O and O" airplane where he met an untimely and very unfortunate demise. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings?Gus,Yes, wings should always have some means of fabric attachment along the ribs. If you have aluminum ribs, you can use screws (a-la-Aeronca Champ). Ifyou have wood ribs, you need to use rib stitching. Even at these slow speeds,a little corner of fabric coming loose from the glue could start "flagging" and result in disaster so fast it would make your head spin. I think this iswhat happened to Steve Whittman if I am not mistaken in his "O and O" airplane where he met an untimely and very unfortunate demise. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings?
Original Posted By: gus notti
Gus:to my knowledge only the HIPEC product is designed to not require rib stiching.http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/hipec ... htmmichael ----- Original Message -----
Gus:to my knowledge only the HIPEC product is designed to not require rib stiching.http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/hipec ... htmmichael ----- Original Message -----
> Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: gus notti
> Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
>> Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: Mike Volckmann
Re: Pietenpol-List: E-85 (was Fuel Tank)
Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Re: Pietenpol-List: E-85 (was Fuel Tank)Don't know about Citgo but BP stations are alcohol free in the area (Tennessee) I live in. I have been told by a station manager that BP's policy is not to use alcohol unless it's the law. I still do an alcohol check each time, just in case. It's so easy, even a cave man could do it.Gene________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: E-85 (was Fuel Tank)Don't know about Citgo but BP stations are alcohol free in the area (Tennessee) I live in. I have been told by a station manager that BP's policy is not to use alcohol unless it's the law. I still do an alcohol check each time, just in case. It's so easy, even a cave man could do it.Gene________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: E-85 (was Fuel Tank)
Original Posted By: gus notti
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: E-85 (was Fuel Tank)Gene,I just wandered out of my cave to read your post about the alcohol test. How do you do this test? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 06:11:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: E-85 (was Fuel Tank)Gene,I just wandered out of my cave to read your post about the alcohol test. How do you do this test? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 06:11:46 -0800 (PST)
> Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner
Re: Pietenpol-List: E-85 (was Fuel Tank)
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Re: Pietenpol-List: E-85 (was Fuel Tank)Jef Boatright wrote:"Someone commented that Citgo doesn't lace it's juice with alcohol. Does anyone know more about this?"That's right: CITGO is 100 % pure Maracaibo (Venezuela) crude. The US buys approximately 8 to 10% of our oil from PDVSA (Petroleos de Venezuela) and this represents about 70% of their production. But I as a Venezuelan ex-pat I suggest it be avoided at all cost. Chavez (remember the one about the sulfur comments at the UN) runs the place. He has systematically dismantled democracy and openly had declared himself president for life, with a declared communist agenda and a openly expressed disdain for the US. he is rubbing elbows with every one of the bad guys around the world. Buying missiles and rockets form Putin with his oil revenues and expressing his readiness to use them on us. I would provide links to sites supporting all of this but apparently he has shut down every one of them I had marked as he also controls press and communication. http://www.venezuelatoday.net/gustavo-c ... e.htmlWith his oil revenues he is also buying up control of these entities in a greater part of south America as well as US voting machines manufacturers. now how do we get back to Pietenpols after this one?michael silviusscarborough, maine ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: E-85 (was Fuel Tank)Jef Boatright wrote:"Someone commented that Citgo doesn't lace it's juice with alcohol. Does anyone know more about this?"That's right: CITGO is 100 % pure Maracaibo (Venezuela) crude. The US buys approximately 8 to 10% of our oil from PDVSA (Petroleos de Venezuela) and this represents about 70% of their production. But I as a Venezuelan ex-pat I suggest it be avoided at all cost. Chavez (remember the one about the sulfur comments at the UN) runs the place. He has systematically dismantled democracy and openly had declared himself president for life, with a declared communist agenda and a openly expressed disdain for the US. he is rubbing elbows with every one of the bad guys around the world. Buying missiles and rockets form Putin with his oil revenues and expressing his readiness to use them on us. I would provide links to sites supporting all of this but apparently he has shut down every one of them I had marked as he also controls press and communication. http://www.venezuelatoday.net/gustavo-c ... e.htmlWith his oil revenues he is also buying up control of these entities in a greater part of south America as well as US voting machines manufacturers. now how do we get back to Pietenpols after this one?michael silviusscarborough, maine ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tankTry _www.aluminungastanks.net_ (http://www.aluminungastanks.net) They will do what you want, I was satisfied with them.Ted Stone/ building a pietIn a message dated 11/23/2010 10:05:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:GuysCan anyone recommend a place that makes custom aluminum fuel tanks?thanks-- Rick HollandCastle Rock, Colorado"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:45:55 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tankTry _www.aluminungastanks.net_ (http://www.aluminungastanks.net) They will do what you want, I was satisfied with them.Ted Stone/ building a pietIn a message dated 11/23/2010 10:05:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:GuysCan anyone recommend a place that makes custom aluminum fuel tanks?thanks-- Rick HollandCastle Rock, Colorado"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:45:55 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel line size
Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
Haven't gotten that far yet! Chuck cncampbell(at)windstream.net ----- Original Message -----
Haven't gotten that far yet! Chuck cncampbell(at)windstream.net ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Looks good Gary, give it a month to dry before testing.JackDSM _____
Looks good Gary, give it a month to dry before testing.JackDSM _____
Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Good people,After 6 solid days of work, I have finally finished the fabrication of my new tank, and am ready to weld. I learned a lot along the way about flow-forming aluminum. As you can see by the photos, there is a huge resultant difference between using a steel as opposed to a plastic insert in the rivet gun. The forming surface underneath is 3/4" thick MFD board (Lowe's) routed-out to form whatever beads or troughs you happened to need. I bought that flow-forming (rivet gun) tool from tinmantech.com, with the white plastic insert. The plastic insert that comes with it is flat. I bought additional insert material from Mcmastercarr.com (1-1/4" diameter UHMW rod) and formed it with my small lathe and band saw. I would be happy to answer any questions, but I may not get back to you till tomorrow. Hope this helps somebody.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Good people,After 6 solid days of work, I have finally finished the fabrication of my new tank, and am ready to weld. I learned a lot along the way about flow-forming aluminum. As you can see by the photos, there is a huge resultant difference between using a steel as opposed to a plastic insert in the rivet gun. The forming surface underneath is 3/4" thick MFD board (Lowe's) routed-out to form whatever beads or troughs you happened to need. I bought that flow-forming (rivet gun) tool from tinmantech.com, with the white plastic insert. The plastic insert that comes with it is flat. I bought additional insert material from Mcmastercarr.com (1-1/4" diameter UHMW rod) and formed it with my small lathe and band saw. I would be happy to answer any questions, but I may not get back to you till tomorrow. Hope this helps somebody.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Pietenpol-List: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "Kyle85"
The flanged holes were formed using the MFD board also. Cut a hole in the MFD board then use a round-over router bit to taper the inside of the hole. Cut the hole in the aluminum about 1/2" smaller. Then force a "plug" down into the aluminum to form the flange. I just happened to have some tapered cast iron grommet-setting dies that worked nicely, but the plugs can be formed with the MFD board also.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
The flanged holes were formed using the MFD board also. Cut a hole in the MFD board then use a round-over router bit to taper the inside of the hole. Cut the hole in the aluminum about 1/2" smaller. Then force a "plug" down into the aluminum to form the flange. I just happened to have some tapered cast iron grommet-setting dies that worked nicely, but the plugs can be formed with the MFD board also.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Thanks for the input guys! I really do like the tigermoth turnbuckles. Although,I may just bite the bullet and buy some. Heck, I don't think I could make myown for under $8Kyle--------Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete theflight.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT)
Thanks for the input guys! I really do like the tigermoth turnbuckles. Although,I may just bite the bullet and buy some. Heck, I don't think I could make myown for under $8Kyle--------Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete theflight.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT)