Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Would like some assistance with the routing of the rudder cables. I assumethey need to go through the back-seat front panel. Then do they go to apulley? Any pictures or comments would help.Thanks!JackDSM________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Jack,I ran mine through pulleys on the back of the rear seat. The angle changerequired of the cable is right at the borderline of being too much for afairlead, so I decided to add ball bearing pulleys to make the system feelsmoother. Here's a picture:Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Jack,I ran mine through pulleys on the back of the rear seat. The angle changerequired of the cable is right at the borderline of being too much for afairlead, so I decided to add ball bearing pulleys to make the system feelsmoother. Here's a picture:Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Jack,This is all I could pull up on my work computer. I don't recall why Idecided to use two rear pulleys, but I'm sure it was for a good reason! Letme know if you want more pics.Gary
Jack,This is all I could pull up on my work computer. I don't recall why Idecided to use two rear pulleys, but I'm sure it was for a good reason! Letme know if you want more pics.Gary
Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Original Posted By: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: San AntonioJohn, looks like I am going to be heading back to Fort Sam Houston. I will finishthe deployment this fall and would love to take a look at your next pile ofjunk. LOL. Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: San AntonioJohn, looks like I am going to be heading back to Fort Sam Houston. I will finishthe deployment this fall and would love to take a look at your next pile ofjunk. LOL. Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
RE: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piet fly-in june 18 th
Original Posted By: shad bell
Shad, Ed and I are still planning on your fly in, weather permitting.Skip------- Original Message -----
Shad, Ed and I are still planning on your fly in, weather permitting.Skip------- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Original Posted By: Jack
Hi Jack,I didn't think it was necessary to add the pulley. I took a small piece of phenolic, drilled a hole in it, and glued it to the back side of the seat, then ran the rudder cable through. There seems to be enough slack in that system for it to work fine on mine. Very smooth operation with no effort to move the rudder.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Hi Jack,I didn't think it was necessary to add the pulley. I took a small piece of phenolic, drilled a hole in it, and glued it to the back side of the seat, then ran the rudder cable through. There seems to be enough slack in that system for it to work fine on mine. Very smooth operation with no effort to move the rudder.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Original Posted By: shad bell
I'm assuming there's less than 3=B0 of direction change,right?Clif Hi Jack, I didn't think it was necessary to add the pulley. I took a small piece of phenolic, drilled a hole in it, and glued it to the back side of the seat, then ran the rudder cable through. There seems to be enough slack in that system for it to work fine on mine. Very smooth operation with no effort to move the rudder. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
I'm assuming there's less than 3=B0 of direction change,right?Clif Hi Jack, I didn't think it was necessary to add the pulley. I took a small piece of phenolic, drilled a hole in it, and glued it to the back side of the seat, then ran the rudder cable through. There seems to be enough slack in that system for it to work fine on mine. Very smooth operation with no effort to move the rudder. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sorry Joe, I can't offer any information on the people or the aircraft in question.All I really wanted to say was go ahead and get started... the discoveryphase never ends!--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Sorry Joe, I can't offer any information on the people or the aircraft in question.All I really wanted to say was go ahead and get started... the discoveryphase never ends!--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
Hi Clif,I am not near my Piet, so I am working from recollection. As with so many things with my Piet design, I relied on seat-of-the-pants engineering, based on my schooling and experience (A and P certificate 1976, real life experiences in the manufacturing field for 30 years). This was one of those times that I used the "there is no reason that this won't work" conclusion. :O)Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Hi Clif,I am not near my Piet, so I am working from recollection. As with so many things with my Piet design, I relied on seat-of-the-pants engineering, based on my schooling and experience (A and P certificate 1976, real life experiences in the manufacturing field for 30 years). This was one of those times that I used the "there is no reason that this won't work" conclusion. :O)Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: seeking advice on tie rods vs cables
Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
Hey all,The guy that started my project installed solid (round) tie rods withthreaded end fixtures for the center section and landing gear bracing. I'vejust been reading about some flybaby accidents due to flying wires/cablesbeing replaced with tie rods which directed vibration into the spar fittingand cracked it.Though this is a very different application from center section and landinggear bracing, I thought I'd put it out there to the group. Should I changeto standard cable or leave it?Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: seeking advice on tie rods vs cables
Hey all,The guy that started my project installed solid (round) tie rods withthreaded end fixtures for the center section and landing gear bracing. I'vejust been reading about some flybaby accidents due to flying wires/cablesbeing replaced with tie rods which directed vibration into the spar fittingand cracked it.Though this is a very different application from center section and landinggear bracing, I thought I'd put it out there to the group. Should I changeto standard cable or leave it?Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: seeking advice on tie rods vs cables
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
Douwe,I guess the answer to that would depend on the diameter of the round rods usedfor the tie rods, what they're made of, and if the threads are rolled or cut witha threading die. If the threads are cut and the rod is plain cold-rolledsteel of 1/8" or 3/16" diameter, I'd be willing to bet that 1/8" aircraft cablewith properly swaged Nicopress fittings will have a higher tensile strengthand would be less likely to break than the steel tie rods... I'd be worried aboutthe rods breaking at the threads, especially if they are subject to vibration.That's my $.02, others please jump in and comment too.--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Douwe,I guess the answer to that would depend on the diameter of the round rods usedfor the tie rods, what they're made of, and if the threads are rolled or cut witha threading die. If the threads are cut and the rod is plain cold-rolledsteel of 1/8" or 3/16" diameter, I'd be willing to bet that 1/8" aircraft cablewith properly swaged Nicopress fittings will have a higher tensile strengthand would be less likely to break than the steel tie rods... I'd be worried aboutthe rods breaking at the threads, especially if they are subject to vibration.That's my $.02, others please jump in and comment too.--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Cable Routing
Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner
I was just thinking of the legal ( AC 43-13 ) aspect andif more than three degrees would be passed on finalinspection. That, of course, would depend on theknowledge of the inspector. it would be a shame tohave to rethink and redo the routing if it was more thanthe acceptable 3=C2=B0 for a fairlead.Clif Hi Clif, I am not near my Piet, so I am working from recollection. As with so many things with my Piet design, I relied on seat-of-the-pants engineering, based on my schooling and experience (A and P certificate 1976, real life experiences in the manufacturing field for 30 years). This was one of those times that I used the "there is no reason that this won't work" conclusion. :O) Dan Helsper Puryear, TN________________________________________________________________________________
I was just thinking of the legal ( AC 43-13 ) aspect andif more than three degrees would be passed on finalinspection. That, of course, would depend on theknowledge of the inspector. it would be a shame tohave to rethink and redo the routing if it was more thanthe acceptable 3=C2=B0 for a fairlead.Clif Hi Clif, I am not near my Piet, so I am working from recollection. As with so many things with my Piet design, I relied on seat-of-the-pants engineering, based on my schooling and experience (A and P certificate 1976, real life experiences in the manufacturing field for 30 years). This was one of those times that I used the "there is no reason that this won't work" conclusion. :O) Dan Helsper Puryear, TN________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: seeking advice on tie rods vs cables
Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
The way I look at it, the possible safety issues aside (I saw the same report years ago - vibration induced metal fatigue) is cable cheap, tie rod expensive. What are you gaining?Kip gardnerOn Apr 26, 2011, at 10:41 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:> Hey all,>> The guy that started my project installed solid (round) tie rods > with threaded end fixtures for the center section and landing gear > bracing. I=92ve just been reading about some flybaby accidents due to > flying wires/cables being replaced with tie rods which directed > vibration into the spar fitting and cracked it.>> Though this is a very different application from center section and > landing gear bracing, I thought I=92d put it out there to the group. > Should I change to standard cable or leave it?>> Douwe>>________________________________________________________________________________
The way I look at it, the possible safety issues aside (I saw the same report years ago - vibration induced metal fatigue) is cable cheap, tie rod expensive. What are you gaining?Kip gardnerOn Apr 26, 2011, at 10:41 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:> Hey all,>> The guy that started my project installed solid (round) tie rods > with threaded end fixtures for the center section and landing gear > bracing. I=92ve just been reading about some flybaby accidents due to > flying wires/cables being replaced with tie rods which directed > vibration into the spar fitting and cracked it.>> Though this is a very different application from center section and > landing gear bracing, I thought I=92d put it out there to the group. > Should I change to standard cable or leave it?>> Douwe>>________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: seeking advice on tie rods vs cables
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
DouweOn Bruce's Big Piet at Sun n Fun there were several swedges that were pulledout. Both strut wires on the right side and both x-wires on the frontcabanes. I have never seen swedges pulled out, and we used a Go-NoGo gaugeon them to make sure they were properly sweged. Although, his wings andcenter section were crushed, they held on long enough to pull out theswedgesOn our tail braces, we used Rolled Threads Unlimited to make our SS tailbraces. They were very cheap and were the highest quality. The cheap pricecame from buying in quantity. I ordered 8 for each of the 6 airplanes or 48total and the price was around $4.10 each and that included the Stainlessrod. Of course, with every good story there is a crummy ending. Someonecame into our shop and was looking for something to fix a lawnmower with andwe think he took one for the repair. When I ordered just one, the price was$155.00. Looks like the threading machine set-up fee was absorbed in the 48and not in the one.Barry _____
DouweOn Bruce's Big Piet at Sun n Fun there were several swedges that were pulledout. Both strut wires on the right side and both x-wires on the frontcabanes. I have never seen swedges pulled out, and we used a Go-NoGo gaugeon them to make sure they were properly sweged. Although, his wings andcenter section were crushed, they held on long enough to pull out theswedgesOn our tail braces, we used Rolled Threads Unlimited to make our SS tailbraces. They were very cheap and were the highest quality. The cheap pricecame from buying in quantity. I ordered 8 for each of the 6 airplanes or 48total and the price was around $4.10 each and that included the Stainlessrod. Of course, with every good story there is a crummy ending. Someonecame into our shop and was looking for something to fix a lawnmower with andwe think he took one for the repair. When I ordered just one, the price was$155.00. Looks like the threading machine set-up fee was absorbed in the 48and not in the one.Barry _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cuttin' metal
Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner
being a big fiddle player i like banjo jokes....if you throw a banjo player and a guitar player out of a plane at the same time....who hits the ground first ??the guitar player of course....the banjo player has to stop and tunejeffin the bluegrass stateRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cuttin' metal
being a big fiddle player i like banjo jokes....if you throw a banjo player and a guitar player out of a plane at the same time....who hits the ground first ??the guitar player of course....the banjo player has to stop and tunejeffin the bluegrass stateRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cuttin' metal
Original Posted By: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
Yeah,If you see a banjo player drooling out of both sides of his mouth, what do youknow is true?A. The stage is level.On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:10 PM, bender wrote:> > being a big fiddle player i like banjo jokes....> > if you throw a banjo player and a guitar player out of a plane at the same time....who hits the ground first ??> > > the guitar player of course....> > the banjo player has to stop and tune> > > jeff> in the bluegrass state> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 198#338198> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
Yeah,If you see a banjo player drooling out of both sides of his mouth, what do youknow is true?A. The stage is level.On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:10 PM, bender wrote:> > being a big fiddle player i like banjo jokes....> > if you throw a banjo player and a guitar player out of a plane at the same time....who hits the ground first ??> > > the guitar player of course....> > the banjo player has to stop and tune> > > jeff> in the bluegrass state> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 198#338198> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder sizing
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder sizingKMH--I find the rudder and elevator's built as per plans are incredibly light andresponsive. Mike C.________________________________________
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder sizingKMH--I find the rudder and elevator's built as per plans are incredibly light andresponsive. Mike C.________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder sizing
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Why? The rudder is perfectly adequate and quite powerful, as are theelevators. The only controls lacking in authority are the ailerons, andthey are improved with gap seals.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Why? The rudder is perfectly adequate and quite powerful, as are theelevators. The only controls lacking in authority are the ailerons, andthey are improved with gap seals.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____