Original Posted By: V Groah
No problem.- Let us know if you find something different.- Insofar as the ring side clearance, it seems to be more of a longevity issue than catastrophic failure sort of thing, for what that's worth.- Finding old timers that rebuilt engines like our generation takes out loans is getting tougher and tougher.- I bought a portable boring bar from a guy around here who used to rebuild engines at nights in his shop for extra cash.- Didn't even break a sweat tearing an engine down, reboring it, lapping in valves, blah blah blah.- Unfortunately he couldn't really remember much about it and what were the really important factors in getting a good rebuild.- Had no idea how the boring bar worked anymore.- Really really neat guy, who even more sadly, passed a couple years ago.- Took more knowledge with him that I'll likely ever know.- His children had no interest in learning what he knew...I figured out the boring bar and have used it to build a couple of those Wisconsin VH4D engines like you find in old carnival rides, Bobcats, scissor lifts, etc.- Going to use it to rebore my Model A blocks soon.- ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 5#370105le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: What to build
Pietenpol-List: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
y.org>Michael,The wear you see there is probably from some carbon build up.- That part of the piston doesn't touch the cylinder wall.- After you determine that the ring gaps are OK then make sure you measure the Piston skirts.- This measurement and the cylinder wall diameter will determine the piston clearance.- All of the acceptable measurements will be in the overhaul manual as others have said.- These old cont. engines are very forgiving and will continue to run when other engines would just give up.- Building your own engine is a lot of fun and very rewarding.- I too have used a lot of parts from Fresno Air Parts with good results.- Just make sure that you measure and inspect everything you purchase from them before putting the parts in your engine.- I have known others who have received the occasional bad part but otherwise they are great to deal with.My 2 cents,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 5#370095le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 09:52:20 -0700 (PDT)
y.org>Michael,The wear you see there is probably from some carbon build up.- That part of the piston doesn't touch the cylinder wall.- After you determine that the ring gaps are OK then make sure you measure the Piston skirts.- This measurement and the cylinder wall diameter will determine the piston clearance.- All of the acceptable measurements will be in the overhaul manual as others have said.- These old cont. engines are very forgiving and will continue to run when other engines would just give up.- Building your own engine is a lot of fun and very rewarding.- I too have used a lot of parts from Fresno Air Parts with good results.- Just make sure that you measure and inspect everything you purchase from them before putting the parts in your engine.- I have known others who have received the occasional bad part but otherwise they are great to deal with.My 2 cents,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 5#370095le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 09:52:20 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: What to build
Original Posted By: woodflier(at)aol.com
MichaelGlad to give moral support.I got everything just about from Fresno Airparts. Robert Crispi the owner givesvery good service and I'm in England.Payment by PayPal and delivery very fast. Just waiting for Customs to catch up!These small Continentals are great little engines and easy to work on. I thoroughlyenjoyed the whole process of overhaul.As a thank you the engine started first swing.RegardsGerry________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What to build
MichaelGlad to give moral support.I got everything just about from Fresno Airparts. Robert Crispi the owner givesvery good service and I'm in England.Payment by PayPal and delivery very fast. Just waiting for Customs to catch up!These small Continentals are great little engines and easy to work on. I thoroughlyenjoyed the whole process of overhaul.As a thank you the engine started first swing.RegardsGerry________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What to build
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
I looked at all those other designs, but I'm looking for two seats, wood construction,corvair powered, and reasonably priced. Tah dah...the Piet. Like I saidI love the bipe look, so thought the Aerial mod made sense. I'm 6', 215. Concerned I'm not going to fit in something?Rob--------------------------Rob, I'm 5'11" and was 206 on the scales this morning. I fit in my Piet fine - it's a small cockpit any way you look at it. Solo, with me in the back seat and full fuel (I built minewith a fuselage tank rather than the wing center section tank) my CG is about 18.5 inches aft ofdatum. 20 inches is the aft limit. If I were to change any thing about my Piet, I think I would go with the long fuselage rather than the short that I built. That would give a bitmore leg room and clearance for my knees getting in and out. But the short fuselage I built certainlyworks for me. Raking the wing back about 4 inches should keep the CG in the acceptable range. Matt PaxtonNX629ML________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
I looked at all those other designs, but I'm looking for two seats, wood construction,corvair powered, and reasonably priced. Tah dah...the Piet. Like I saidI love the bipe look, so thought the Aerial mod made sense. I'm 6', 215. Concerned I'm not going to fit in something?Rob--------------------------Rob, I'm 5'11" and was 206 on the scales this morning. I fit in my Piet fine - it's a small cockpit any way you look at it. Solo, with me in the back seat and full fuel (I built minewith a fuselage tank rather than the wing center section tank) my CG is about 18.5 inches aft ofdatum. 20 inches is the aft limit. If I were to change any thing about my Piet, I think I would go with the long fuselage rather than the short that I built. That would give a bitmore leg room and clearance for my knees getting in and out. But the short fuselage I built certainlyworks for me. Raking the wing back about 4 inches should keep the CG in the acceptable range. Matt PaxtonNX629ML________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Original Posted By: "tools"
Michael,The wear you see there is probably from some carbon build up. That part of thepiston doesn't touch the cylinder wall. After you determine that the ring gapsare OK then make sure you measure the Piston skirts. This measurement andthe cylinder wall diameter will determine the piston clearance. All of the acceptablemeasurements will be in the overhaul manual as others have said. Theseold cont. engines are very forgiving and will continue to run when other engineswould just give up. Building your own engine is a lot of fun and very rewarding.I too have used a lot of parts from Fresno Air Parts with good results. Just makesure that you measure and inspect everything you purchase from them beforeputting the parts in your engine. I have known others who have received theoccasional bad part but otherwise they are great to deal with.My 2 cents,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Michael,The wear you see there is probably from some carbon build up. That part of thepiston doesn't touch the cylinder wall. After you determine that the ring gapsare OK then make sure you measure the Piston skirts. This measurement andthe cylinder wall diameter will determine the piston clearance. All of the acceptablemeasurements will be in the overhaul manual as others have said. Theseold cont. engines are very forgiving and will continue to run when other engineswould just give up. Building your own engine is a lot of fun and very rewarding.I too have used a lot of parts from Fresno Air Parts with good results. Just makesure that you measure and inspect everything you purchase from them beforeputting the parts in your engine. I have known others who have received theoccasional bad part but otherwise they are great to deal with.My 2 cents,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
That wear alone wouldn't deter me from using it. A not commonly checked item isthe side clearance between the ring and the ring groove. If that is in spec,wrist pin hole is good, piston wall clearance is good, then I'd call it reusable.A piston's main function in life is to carry the rings up and down correctly, soproper ring to piston fit is critical. Clearance is more esoteric. It can'tbe too tight because when it expands as it gets hot, if it jams up.... well,not good. Too loose is more of luxury. Loose pistons are noisy, not a problemin race car engines, those guys run really loose clearances. Really nice quietluxury car engines that are supposed to run smooth and quiet, run rathertight clearances. It looks like that damage was caused by too much gunk in the top of the engine.Doesn't extend back to the ring grooves, which would be more of a concern. Check any references you have closely as to WHERE to measure certain clearancesas most pistons aren't round so the nominal size is measured perpendicular tothe wrist pin, at the skirt usually. Sorry to ramble, hope this helps some. This is what I've gleaned from readingevery rebuild manual I can find on all sorts of engines. After a while, somethings seem to keep coming up, while other things don't and I don't know why thatis.The ring slide clearance doesn't seem to come up often, but long time rebuildersof little Wisconsin industrial air cooled engines swear by it. Their argumentsmake a lot of sense to me. Those engines are rated around 40hp, 2000 rpmish,gasoline burners and run wide open developing their rated horsepower continuously,much like our aircraft engines. ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
That wear alone wouldn't deter me from using it. A not commonly checked item isthe side clearance between the ring and the ring groove. If that is in spec,wrist pin hole is good, piston wall clearance is good, then I'd call it reusable.A piston's main function in life is to carry the rings up and down correctly, soproper ring to piston fit is critical. Clearance is more esoteric. It can'tbe too tight because when it expands as it gets hot, if it jams up.... well,not good. Too loose is more of luxury. Loose pistons are noisy, not a problemin race car engines, those guys run really loose clearances. Really nice quietluxury car engines that are supposed to run smooth and quiet, run rathertight clearances. It looks like that damage was caused by too much gunk in the top of the engine.Doesn't extend back to the ring grooves, which would be more of a concern. Check any references you have closely as to WHERE to measure certain clearancesas most pistons aren't round so the nominal size is measured perpendicular tothe wrist pin, at the skirt usually. Sorry to ramble, hope this helps some. This is what I've gleaned from readingevery rebuild manual I can find on all sorts of engines. After a while, somethings seem to keep coming up, while other things don't and I don't know why thatis.The ring slide clearance doesn't seem to come up often, but long time rebuildersof little Wisconsin industrial air cooled engines swear by it. Their argumentsmake a lot of sense to me. Those engines are rated around 40hp, 2000 rpmish,gasoline burners and run wide open developing their rated horsepower continuously,much like our aircraft engines. ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: St. Croix Aerial Opinions?
Original Posted By: "Skagit"
Thanks Matt. I was planning on doing the long fuse. I'll take all the room Ican get!RobRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: St. Croix Aerial Opinions?
Thanks Matt. I was planning on doing the long fuse. I'll take all the room Ican get!RobRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: St. Croix Aerial Opinions?
Original Posted By: John Hofmann
kevinpurtee wrote:> Hi Skagit - Is that your first name or your last? We love real names.> > Welcome to the world of Piets. Most of us who have successfully built and flownPietenpols have stuck pretty close to the plans. It seems that most peoplewho fly a lot have planes that are pretty close to the original. I can onlythink of two Aerials that I've seen pictures of in completed form. That's anindicator. I also think you'd be on your own in terms of design support, knowingwhat little I know about Chad Wille.> > If you really want a biplane then you may want to look at a design that startedlife as a biplane. Or do like some of us: build a Piet and make the next projecta biplane.> > Again, welcome.Thanks Kevin-The name's Rob. Internet handles can be a funny thing...I had a boat a few years back, a Bayliner Skagit model. It was a giant piece ofjunk...rotten transom, water in the stern drive, electrical shot, etc. I boughtit on a whim with little knowledge of boats and less common sense. WhileI was panicking about what I had done, I signed on to a boating forum for adviceusing the name Skagit, in homage to my turd-boat. The name just kind of stuck,and I've been using it for various forums ever since. I guess it's my internetpersona...like in the old west where Bernie Sniglefutz from Poughkeepsieturned into Buck Strider as soon as he crossed the Wyoming border. Thanks for the feedback on the Aerial. With this being my first project I mayjust keep it simple and go with the straight Piet. I'll build a Great Lakes orRV-8 next time.Rob (my real name) [Wink]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
kevinpurtee wrote:> Hi Skagit - Is that your first name or your last? We love real names.> > Welcome to the world of Piets. Most of us who have successfully built and flownPietenpols have stuck pretty close to the plans. It seems that most peoplewho fly a lot have planes that are pretty close to the original. I can onlythink of two Aerials that I've seen pictures of in completed form. That's anindicator. I also think you'd be on your own in terms of design support, knowingwhat little I know about Chad Wille.> > If you really want a biplane then you may want to look at a design that startedlife as a biplane. Or do like some of us: build a Piet and make the next projecta biplane.> > Again, welcome.Thanks Kevin-The name's Rob. Internet handles can be a funny thing...I had a boat a few years back, a Bayliner Skagit model. It was a giant piece ofjunk...rotten transom, water in the stern drive, electrical shot, etc. I boughtit on a whim with little knowledge of boats and less common sense. WhileI was panicking about what I had done, I signed on to a boating forum for adviceusing the name Skagit, in homage to my turd-boat. The name just kind of stuck,and I've been using it for various forums ever since. I guess it's my internetpersona...like in the old west where Bernie Sniglefutz from Poughkeepsieturned into Buck Strider as soon as he crossed the Wyoming border. Thanks for the feedback on the Aerial. With this being my first project I mayjust keep it simple and go with the straight Piet. I'll build a Great Lakes orRV-8 next time.Rob (my real name) [Wink]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Original Posted By: "tools"
Hi Rob,Where are you located?-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2424 American LaneMadison, WI 53704Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Apr 5, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Skagit wrote:> > Thanks Matt. I was planning on doing the long fuse. I'll take all the room I can get!> > Rob> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 103#370103> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Hi Rob,Where are you located?-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2424 American LaneMadison, WI 53704Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Apr 5, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Skagit wrote:> > Thanks Matt. I was planning on doing the long fuse. I'll take all the room I can get!> > Rob> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 103#370103> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Pietenpol-List: Re: What to build
Original Posted By: "Skagit"
No problem. Let us know if you find something different. Insofar as the ringside clearance, it seems to be more of a longevity issue than catastrophic failuresort of thing, for what that's worth. Finding old timers that rebuilt engines like our generation takes out loans isgetting tougher and tougher. I bought a portable boring bar from a guy aroundhere who used to rebuild engines at nights in his shop for extra cash. Didn'teven break a sweat tearing an engine down, reboring it, lapping in valves, blahblah blah. Unfortunately he couldn't really remember much about it and whatwere the really important factors in getting a good rebuild. Had no idea howthe boring bar worked anymore. Really really neat guy, who even more sadly,passed a couple years ago. Took more knowledge with him that I'll likely everknow. His children had no interest in learning what he knew...I figured out the boring bar and have used it to build a couple of those WisconsinVH4D engines like you find in old carnival rides, Bobcats, scissor lifts,etc. Going to use it to rebore my Model A blocks soon. ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What to build
No problem. Let us know if you find something different. Insofar as the ringside clearance, it seems to be more of a longevity issue than catastrophic failuresort of thing, for what that's worth. Finding old timers that rebuilt engines like our generation takes out loans isgetting tougher and tougher. I bought a portable boring bar from a guy aroundhere who used to rebuild engines at nights in his shop for extra cash. Didn'teven break a sweat tearing an engine down, reboring it, lapping in valves, blahblah blah. Unfortunately he couldn't really remember much about it and whatwere the really important factors in getting a good rebuild. Had no idea howthe boring bar worked anymore. Really really neat guy, who even more sadly,passed a couple years ago. Took more knowledge with him that I'll likely everknow. His children had no interest in learning what he knew...I figured out the boring bar and have used it to build a couple of those WisconsinVH4D engines like you find in old carnival rides, Bobcats, scissor lifts,etc. Going to use it to rebore my Model A blocks soon. ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What to build
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc. wrote:> Hi Rob,> > Where are you located?> > > -john-> > John Hofmann> Vice-President, Information Technology> The Rees Group, Inc.> 2424 American Lane> Madison, WI 53704> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150> Fax: 608.443.2474> Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com (jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com)> > > > Kalispell, MT. Glacier country!RobRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 11:05:34 -0700 (PDT)
jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc. wrote:> Hi Rob,> > Where are you located?> > > -john-> > John Hofmann> Vice-President, Information Technology> The Rees Group, Inc.> 2424 American Lane> Madison, WI 53704> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150> Fax: 608.443.2474> Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com (jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com)> > > > Kalispell, MT. Glacier country!RobRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 11:05:34 -0700 (PDT)