Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone
Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
Here's a challenge to all. Lets see how many of us with flying Piets can commitaviation on the 4th. Even if it is only to go around the pattern once. Thenwe'll report back here so we can get a head count. Could be fun. Have fun,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Here's a challenge to all. Lets see how many of us with flying Piets can commitaviation on the 4th. Even if it is only to go around the pattern once. Thenwe'll report back here so we can get a head count. Could be fun. Have fun,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Original Posted By: "Chris Rusch"
Chris,Where is the fuel tank located?Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Chris,Where is the fuel tank located?Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Scott,I will be committing aviation on July 4th in a Boeing 767 (work). I would muchrather be doing it in a Pietenpol.A Happy 4th to all.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GAUSMC, USMCR, ATPBVD DVD PDQ BBQRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Scott,I will be committing aviation on July 4th in a Boeing 767 (work). I would muchrather be doing it in a Pietenpol.A Happy 4th to all.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GAUSMC, USMCR, ATPBVD DVD PDQ BBQRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I'm in!Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
I'm in!Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I should be able to to do that. Forecast here is good for tomorrow (sucksright now, though). I was able to get in a flight in the Pietenpol this morning, carrying one ofour B&B guests. Squeezed it in under a 1500' broken ceiling with ascattered layer at 700'. The pretty young lady was thrilled. Her boyfriendwas too heavy for the Piet so I took him in the RV-4.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
I should be able to to do that. Forecast here is good for tomorrow (sucksright now, though). I was able to get in a flight in the Pietenpol this morning, carrying one ofour B&B guests. Squeezed it in under a 1500' broken ceiling with ascattered layer at 700'. The pretty young lady was thrilled. Her boyfriendwas too heavy for the Piet so I took him in the RV-4.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List:
Original Posted By: markmckellar(at)reagan.com
(like the little school kid in the back of the room, with his hand up): "I know!I know! Chris's fuel tank is in the wing centersection and it's a 14 gallonone"I know this because I'm just wrapping up the article on the MitsuPietshi that willappear in the all-Piet issue of Contact! Magazine, just in time for the 85thanniversary of the Air Camper.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 18:49:48 -0500 (CDT)Subject: Pietenpol-List:
(like the little school kid in the back of the room, with his hand up): "I know!I know! Chris's fuel tank is in the wing centersection and it's a 14 gallonone"I know this because I'm just wrapping up the article on the MitsuPietshi that willappear in the all-Piet issue of Contact! Magazine, just in time for the 85thanniversary of the Air Camper.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 18:49:48 -0500 (CDT)Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Re: Pietenpol-List:
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Re: Pietenpol-List:
Original Posted By: Kip Gardner
If I didn't know better, I would say that you've been listening to too many episodesof "Guy Noir" on the Prairie Home Companion."A dark night in a city that knows how to keep its secrets. Brodhead, Wisconsin".--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
If I didn't know better, I would say that you've been listening to too many episodesof "Guy Noir" on the Prairie Home Companion."A dark night in a city that knows how to keep its secrets. Brodhead, Wisconsin".--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Re: Pietenpol-List:
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Good one, Oscar.Happy Independence Day everyone!On Jul 4, 2014, at 12:28 AM, taildrags wrote:> > If I didn't know better, I would say that you've been listening to too many episodesof "Guy Noir" on the Prairie Home Companion.> > "A dark night in a city that knows how to keep its secrets. Brodhead, Wisconsin".> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 051#426051> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Good one, Oscar.Happy Independence Day everyone!On Jul 4, 2014, at 12:28 AM, taildrags wrote:> > If I didn't know better, I would say that you've been listening to too many episodesof "Guy Noir" on the Prairie Home Companion.> > "A dark night in a city that knows how to keep its secrets. Brodhead, Wisconsin".> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 051#426051> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Steve,That is a classic, worthy of Raymond Chandler. I would like to know who wrote it,it made me smile.In defense of Mark McKellar: He may not know how to unsubscribe, but he was a prettygood student of engine building. He came to Corvair College #2 held at ourold hangar at Spruce Creek FL. He built up a long block under our supervision,intended for a Piet. Years later, after a life issue, he sold it to Robertand Barbara Caldwell for their bird. They bolted on some updated parts but didn'ttouch the basic engine Mark assembled. At Corvair College #21 at PF Beck'sthe engine fired right up after 3 seconds of cranking and ran smoothly. Elapsedtime, almost 11 years.There are pictures at this link: http://www.flycorvair.com/cc21.html It also contains first runs on a number of Corvairs bound for Piets, like "Early Builder's" and Don Harper's. We are holding Corvair College #31 at PF Beck's in Barnwell again this November.-ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Steve,That is a classic, worthy of Raymond Chandler. I would like to know who wrote it,it made me smile.In defense of Mark McKellar: He may not know how to unsubscribe, but he was a prettygood student of engine building. He came to Corvair College #2 held at ourold hangar at Spruce Creek FL. He built up a long block under our supervision,intended for a Piet. Years later, after a life issue, he sold it to Robertand Barbara Caldwell for their bird. They bolted on some updated parts but didn'ttouch the basic engine Mark assembled. At Corvair College #21 at PF Beck'sthe engine fired right up after 3 seconds of cranking and ran smoothly. Elapsedtime, almost 11 years.There are pictures at this link: http://www.flycorvair.com/cc21.html It also contains first runs on a number of Corvairs bound for Piets, like "Early Builder's" and Don Harper's. We are holding Corvair College #31 at PF Beck's in Barnwell again this November.-ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Chris,I took out a pencil and calculator and went to work on your data. I came out withthe following:EWCG: 8.66"w/150 lb PIC 15.26"w/ 205 lb PIC 17.1"w/ 290 lb PIC 19.8"Thoughts: The suggestion by two people that you have to move the wing is lackingdata and merit. If you look at our CG articles, check out the Corvair installment.The plane identified as "Aircraft #3" was Kevin Purtee and Shelley's 'fatbottomed girl'. It is a very close approximation of your plane in EW, CG, Landinggear, etc. Kevin's plane actually had it's EWCG at 8.2", slightly furtherforward than yours. His plane flew 345 hours and many long flights like this.Kevin is about 5'11" and 175 pounds dressed. Yet his plane didn't have 'terriblestick pressure', and I suspect that the prime difference in the two planeswill be the angle of the stabilizer. As further evidence, I have done a W&B on "the Last Original". It is hand propand lighter, but the CG with a 210 lb PIC is 17.0". BHP's plane in the hangarat Pioneer airport is the same way. In 2006 my wife flew the last original andsaid it was totally normal. Bill Knight reworked the plane a few years ago andwould have changed the wing position if it needed it. Bill is a 215 pound guy,but 1,500 hr Piet guy Tom Brown has flown it a lot also, and he is a 165 lbguy, and he has never said anything but positive things about the plane. Again,I suspect that you have a stabilizer issue, not a CG one. Yes, you can crankthe wing forward and mask this, but you would be moving away from how BHP sethis planes up, not closer. One possible point: I saw your number of 60.5" for the PIC-CG. If you look at thenotation that Ryan and I used, PSL is explained in the series as the pilotsseat back length, from there our PIC-CG for calculations was 10" ahead of this.Your number looks like you estimated your PIC to be further forward than this,maybe 15" ahead of the PSL in your plane. If we recalculate your CG w/150lb PIC by my method, the CG is 16.04" about 3/4" further back. Likewise the CGw/205 lb PIC becomes 18.2", over an inch further back. I suspect that my estimatethat the pilot CG from the LE of your plane is close to 55.875" maybe closerthan your estimate of 50.875. For accurate W&B nothing beats the pilot sittingin the plane dressed while it is still on the scales. The 'belly button rule"isn't accurate enough. Note if my number is right, and someone had talkedyou into moving the wing 2.5" forward, you would have ended up aft of the CGlimit. At the risk of confirming suspicions that I am a tactless jackass, I wantto say that we did the W&B work to discourage people from offering advice withoutcalculation.If you are heading to Brodhead, I will gladly go over this in person with you andwe can go get a look at the last original and carefully measure the incidenceon the wing and the stabilizer and compare it to your bird.Thank you.William WynneRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Chris,I took out a pencil and calculator and went to work on your data. I came out withthe following:EWCG: 8.66"w/150 lb PIC 15.26"w/ 205 lb PIC 17.1"w/ 290 lb PIC 19.8"Thoughts: The suggestion by two people that you have to move the wing is lackingdata and merit. If you look at our CG articles, check out the Corvair installment.The plane identified as "Aircraft #3" was Kevin Purtee and Shelley's 'fatbottomed girl'. It is a very close approximation of your plane in EW, CG, Landinggear, etc. Kevin's plane actually had it's EWCG at 8.2", slightly furtherforward than yours. His plane flew 345 hours and many long flights like this.Kevin is about 5'11" and 175 pounds dressed. Yet his plane didn't have 'terriblestick pressure', and I suspect that the prime difference in the two planeswill be the angle of the stabilizer. As further evidence, I have done a W&B on "the Last Original". It is hand propand lighter, but the CG with a 210 lb PIC is 17.0". BHP's plane in the hangarat Pioneer airport is the same way. In 2006 my wife flew the last original andsaid it was totally normal. Bill Knight reworked the plane a few years ago andwould have changed the wing position if it needed it. Bill is a 215 pound guy,but 1,500 hr Piet guy Tom Brown has flown it a lot also, and he is a 165 lbguy, and he has never said anything but positive things about the plane. Again,I suspect that you have a stabilizer issue, not a CG one. Yes, you can crankthe wing forward and mask this, but you would be moving away from how BHP sethis planes up, not closer. One possible point: I saw your number of 60.5" for the PIC-CG. If you look at thenotation that Ryan and I used, PSL is explained in the series as the pilotsseat back length, from there our PIC-CG for calculations was 10" ahead of this.Your number looks like you estimated your PIC to be further forward than this,maybe 15" ahead of the PSL in your plane. If we recalculate your CG w/150lb PIC by my method, the CG is 16.04" about 3/4" further back. Likewise the CGw/205 lb PIC becomes 18.2", over an inch further back. I suspect that my estimatethat the pilot CG from the LE of your plane is close to 55.875" maybe closerthan your estimate of 50.875. For accurate W&B nothing beats the pilot sittingin the plane dressed while it is still on the scales. The 'belly button rule"isn't accurate enough. Note if my number is right, and someone had talkedyou into moving the wing 2.5" forward, you would have ended up aft of the CGlimit. At the risk of confirming suspicions that I am a tactless jackass, I wantto say that we did the W&B work to discourage people from offering advice withoutcalculation.If you are heading to Brodhead, I will gladly go over this in person with you andwe can go get a look at the last original and carefully measure the incidenceon the wing and the stabilizer and compare it to your bird.Thank you.William WynneRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
William,OK, I will be the jarhead that asks the simple question that probably has a simpleanswer.What should the angle of the horizontal stabilizer be? Zero, in relation to thetop longeron? Or is the answer, "it depends."? Start at zero and adjust duringflight testing? I don't see it shown on the plans, or am I missing something?There have been previous discussions on the forum about elevator position in flight.The elevator should be in a neutral position for cruise flight, is thatwhat you are saying? I understand that elevator position out of neutral will createmore drag, but I thought there was some discussion of it being " normal".In the Marine Corps we used to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question,although there are many that come extremely close. Maybe mine is one ofthe close ones.[/b]--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GAUSMC, USMCR, ATPBVD DVD PDQ BBQRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
William,OK, I will be the jarhead that asks the simple question that probably has a simpleanswer.What should the angle of the horizontal stabilizer be? Zero, in relation to thetop longeron? Or is the answer, "it depends."? Start at zero and adjust duringflight testing? I don't see it shown on the plans, or am I missing something?There have been previous discussions on the forum about elevator position in flight.The elevator should be in a neutral position for cruise flight, is thatwhat you are saying? I understand that elevator position out of neutral will createmore drag, but I thought there was some discussion of it being " normal".In the Marine Corps we used to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question,although there are many that come extremely close. Maybe mine is one ofthe close ones.[/b]--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GAUSMC, USMCR, ATPBVD DVD PDQ BBQRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Good morning Pieters,I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. Greatsmooth ride.Happy Landings,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Good morning Pieters,I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. Greatsmooth ride.Happy Landings,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Terry, I went back last night after doing Chris's W&B calculation and read most of whatI could find on it to get a bigger picture. "Depends" is a very good answer.Chris, I would strongly consider getting in touch with Don Harper at Barnwell andlooking at which wing incidence he used on his plane with the same airfoilyou have. Even 1 degree difference is a lot on a plane, and if we know what worksfor him, and if it is different from what you have, it is starting off a lotbetter armed in the info department.The plans show 2 degrees, but this is really applicable to only one set of parameters,a weight and a cruise speed and the original airfoil. 2 degrees may beright on the button for a 1100 pound A powered plane at 68 mph with the BHP airfoil.A 1200 pound plane at 78mph with a ribblett may not only need a differentincidence to be idealized, but it will likely also require a different stabilizersetting. If the BHP and Ribblet airfoils had tables like the naca airfoilsdo in theory of wing sections, anyone could do an accurate calculation ina few minutes. Without this, working from carefully validated previous flyingplanes takes longer, but can produce a fine tunes plane just the same. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Terry, I went back last night after doing Chris's W&B calculation and read most of whatI could find on it to get a bigger picture. "Depends" is a very good answer.Chris, I would strongly consider getting in touch with Don Harper at Barnwell andlooking at which wing incidence he used on his plane with the same airfoilyou have. Even 1 degree difference is a lot on a plane, and if we know what worksfor him, and if it is different from what you have, it is starting off a lotbetter armed in the info department.The plans show 2 degrees, but this is really applicable to only one set of parameters,a weight and a cruise speed and the original airfoil. 2 degrees may beright on the button for a 1100 pound A powered plane at 68 mph with the BHP airfoil.A 1200 pound plane at 78mph with a ribblett may not only need a differentincidence to be idealized, but it will likely also require a different stabilizersetting. If the BHP and Ribblet airfoils had tables like the naca airfoilsdo in theory of wing sections, anyone could do an accurate calculation ina few minutes. Without this, working from carefully validated previous flyingplanes takes longer, but can produce a fine tunes plane just the same. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
There was a discussion about wing incidence about three years ago, and at thattime I created a couple of drawings to illustrate the relationship between thecabane strut lengths, and also between the chord line vs the bottom of the spars.They are attached again to this posting.For the "to the plans" Pietenpol, the 1" difference in cabane struts creates a2 degree angle. Added to this is a 1 1/2 degree angle formed between the chordline and the bottoms of the spars (since that's where the cabanes attach). So the effective angle of incidence between the airfoil chord and the top longeronis 3.5 degrees.For the Riblett 612 airfoil, there is a 2.1 degree angle between the chord lineand the bottoms of the spars. So, if a Riblett 612 airfoil is mounted on "stock"cabanes (front 1" longer than rear), the effective AofI would be 4.1 degrees.If the front and rear cabanes are made equal lengths, with the Riblett, the effectiveangle would be reduced to only 2.1 degrees - almost 1 1/2 degrees lessthan the "to the plans" Piet.In order to produce the same 3.5 degree angle, but using the Riblett 612, thereshould be a difference of approximately 11/16" difference in cabane lengths (frontvs back).Food for thought.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... __________
There was a discussion about wing incidence about three years ago, and at thattime I created a couple of drawings to illustrate the relationship between thecabane strut lengths, and also between the chord line vs the bottom of the spars.They are attached again to this posting.For the "to the plans" Pietenpol, the 1" difference in cabane struts creates a2 degree angle. Added to this is a 1 1/2 degree angle formed between the chordline and the bottoms of the spars (since that's where the cabanes attach). So the effective angle of incidence between the airfoil chord and the top longeronis 3.5 degrees.For the Riblett 612 airfoil, there is a 2.1 degree angle between the chord lineand the bottoms of the spars. So, if a Riblett 612 airfoil is mounted on "stock"cabanes (front 1" longer than rear), the effective AofI would be 4.1 degrees.If the front and rear cabanes are made equal lengths, with the Riblett, the effectiveangle would be reduced to only 2.1 degrees - almost 1 1/2 degrees lessthan the "to the plans" Piet.In order to produce the same 3.5 degree angle, but using the Riblett 612, thereshould be a difference of approximately 11/16" difference in cabane lengths (frontvs back).Food for thought.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots withgusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in suchwinds!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots withgusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in suchwinds!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Know what you mean Jack...gusts to 3 here!Sent from my iPhone> On Jul 4, 2014, at 10:08 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:> > > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such> winds!> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > -----Original Message-----
Know what you mean Jack...gusts to 3 here!Sent from my iPhone> On Jul 4, 2014, at 10:08 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:> > > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such> winds!> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: Michael Groah
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Original Posted By:> Jack Phillips
I got to go up for a bit this morning too! It was hotter at 1000 agl than on the ground this morning, but still not too bad as the high today was supposed to be 103 here in sunny central California. And I get to fly the wife to breakfast in the Piet tomorrow. Ain't it great?Mike GroahTulare CASent from my iPad> On Jul 4, 2014, at 7:31 PM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" wrote:> > Glorious morning flight today on the 4th! Very cool temps for this time of year in Atlanta. I was actually chilly at 2300 MSL. Went down to 1700 MSL for warmth and, oddly, fewer bumps. > --> > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO> Professor of Ophthalmology> Emory University School of Medicine>
I got to go up for a bit this morning too! It was hotter at 1000 agl than on the ground this morning, but still not too bad as the high today was supposed to be 103 here in sunny central California. And I get to fly the wife to breakfast in the Piet tomorrow. Ain't it great?Mike GroahTulare CASent from my iPad> On Jul 4, 2014, at 7:31 PM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" wrote:> > Glorious morning flight today on the 4th! Very cool temps for this time of year in Atlanta. I was actually chilly at 2300 MSL. Went down to 1700 MSL for warmth and, oddly, fewer bumps. > --> > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO> Professor of Ophthalmology> Emory University School of Medicine>
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: Ken Anderson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
I flew for 1.6 yesterday evening doing my flight review (BFR).I felt very independant.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
I flew for 1.6 yesterday evening doing my flight review (BFR).I felt very independant.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
RE: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Michael, when pulling the prop through can you hear air sucking through thecarburetor? Does the sound change when the throttle is opened or closed?Are you running an air cleaner? If so, try propping it with the carb heat"ON" to bypass the air cleaner.Has the carburetor been overhauled and the needle valve checked? Is theneedle valve set to maintain fuel at the prescribed level in the floatchamber?Lots of questions.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Michael, when pulling the prop through can you hear air sucking through thecarburetor? Does the sound change when the throttle is opened or closed?Are you running an air cleaner? If so, try propping it with the carb heat"ON" to bypass the air cleaner.Has the carburetor been overhauled and the needle valve checked? Is theneedle valve set to maintain fuel at the prescribed level in the floatchamber?Lots of questions.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Cover the intake with your hand (I.e. choke it) and rock the prop on an intake stroke for each cylinder until you hear it slurping...Or get starter fluid....GeneOn Jul 5, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> My Fourth was spent doing fuel flow tests and getting ready for the first engine run. As mentioned in the subject line, no luck getting the engine to start. At the end of a long day, we spent about two hours and multiple hand propping attempts with no luck...absolutely no sighs of life. Pulling the #3 lower spark plug verified no fuel was making it into the cylinders. The spark plug was dry and had no smell of fuel. I verified that fuel was in/at the carburetor fuel bowl by loosening the fuel filter nut and allowing the fuel to drip out of my NA-S3B. I do not have any primer system installed and I do not have any type starter fluid on hand, so there was no "pre-charge" of the cylinders/carb./intake attempted.> > Before I remove the carb., (or anything else) and start to tear down components, I am open for suggestions. I understand that troubleshooting vie email is tough, but I appreciate any help provided.> > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building... > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
Cover the intake with your hand (I.e. choke it) and rock the prop on an intake stroke for each cylinder until you hear it slurping...Or get starter fluid....GeneOn Jul 5, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> My Fourth was spent doing fuel flow tests and getting ready for the first engine run. As mentioned in the subject line, no luck getting the engine to start. At the end of a long day, we spent about two hours and multiple hand propping attempts with no luck...absolutely no sighs of life. Pulling the #3 lower spark plug verified no fuel was making it into the cylinders. The spark plug was dry and had no smell of fuel. I verified that fuel was in/at the carburetor fuel bowl by loosening the fuel filter nut and allowing the fuel to drip out of my NA-S3B. I do not have any primer system installed and I do not have any type starter fluid on hand, so there was no "pre-charge" of the cylinders/carb./intake attempted.> > Before I remove the carb., (or anything else) and start to tear down components, I am open for suggestions. I understand that troubleshooting vie email is tough, but I appreciate any help provided.> > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building... > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: Jeff Martin
If its a 65 you don't really need a primer. Any starter fluid will work. Remove filter and spray into box. If it fires backwards, that means too lean, you need more prime. If its a J3 type air box, do like Jack said and pull carb heat and cover the inlet with your hand to chokeGeneOn Jul 5, 2014, at 9:44 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> Hi Gene. Considering I have the heat box in place, should I remove it for the choke you describe? Would any starting fluid work? (Auto store) Where is the best place to spray the starter fluid...I have easy access to the plugged port on the intake spider where a primer nozzle would go. Could it really be this simple!?> > Thank you. > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building...> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
If its a 65 you don't really need a primer. Any starter fluid will work. Remove filter and spray into box. If it fires backwards, that means too lean, you need more prime. If its a J3 type air box, do like Jack said and pull carb heat and cover the inlet with your hand to chokeGeneOn Jul 5, 2014, at 9:44 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> Hi Gene. Considering I have the heat box in place, should I remove it for the choke you describe? Would any starting fluid work? (Auto store) Where is the best place to spray the starter fluid...I have easy access to the plugged port on the intake spider where a primer nozzle would go. Could it really be this simple!?> > Thank you. > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building...> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Check your float levelJeff Martin> On Jul 5, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> > My Fourth was spent doing fuel flow tests and getting ready for the first engine run. As mentioned in the subject line, no luck getting the engine to start. At the end of a long day, we spent about two hours and multiple hand propping attempts with no luck...absolutely no sighs of life. Pulling the #3 lower spark plug verified no fuel was making it into the cylinders. The spark plug was dry and had no smell of fuel. I verified that fuel was in/at the carburetor fuel bowl by loosening the fuel filter nut and allowing the fuel to drip out of my NA-S3B. I do not have any primer system installed and I do not have any type starter fluid on hand, so there was no "pre-charge" of the cylinders/carb./intake attempted.> > Before I remove the carb., (or anything else) and start to tear down components, I am open for suggestions. I understand that troubleshooting vie email is tough, but I appreciate any help provided.> > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building... > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 07:19:58 -0700
Check your float levelJeff Martin> On Jul 5, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> > My Fourth was spent doing fuel flow tests and getting ready for the first engine run. As mentioned in the subject line, no luck getting the engine to start. At the end of a long day, we spent about two hours and multiple hand propping attempts with no luck...absolutely no sighs of life. Pulling the #3 lower spark plug verified no fuel was making it into the cylinders. The spark plug was dry and had no smell of fuel. I verified that fuel was in/at the carburetor fuel bowl by loosening the fuel filter nut and allowing the fuel to drip out of my NA-S3B. I do not have any primer system installed and I do not have any type starter fluid on hand, so there was no "pre-charge" of the cylinders/carb./intake attempted.> > Before I remove the carb., (or anything else) and start to tear down components, I am open for suggestions. I understand that troubleshooting vie email is tough, but I appreciate any help provided.> > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building... > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 07:19:58 -0700
Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
RE: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I wouldn't try choking it while starting - too dangerous. Do as Genesuggested, walking the prop through the intake stroke of each cylinder withthe switches "OFF" and the intake choked. That should pull enough fuel/airmixture into the cylinders to start it. After doing that for 4-6 blades,remove the choke, turn on the mags and prop it hard. Many people don't propvery vigorously. I find it much easier to start an A65 with a really strongswing - you should be able to prop it hard enough to get two blades beforeit stops. Just be careful to not wrap your fingers around the trailing edgeof the prop very far, in case it does kick backwards (it can break your handor arm).It's not necessary for you to be in the cockpit, as long as the tail is tieddown very securely. Have you had any instruction in hand-propping? Be sureto start stepping back as you pull on the prop, so your body already hasmomentum away from that meat cleaver in case you fall. It is not necessaryto kick your leg up before pulling down on the prop - that is just forHollywood and actually can make you overbalance and fall headfirst into theprop. If you go to Brodhead later this month Rob Busch and Matt Paxton canboth give excellent advice on hand-propping airplanes.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
I wouldn't try choking it while starting - too dangerous. Do as Genesuggested, walking the prop through the intake stroke of each cylinder withthe switches "OFF" and the intake choked. That should pull enough fuel/airmixture into the cylinders to start it. After doing that for 4-6 blades,remove the choke, turn on the mags and prop it hard. Many people don't propvery vigorously. I find it much easier to start an A65 with a really strongswing - you should be able to prop it hard enough to get two blades beforeit stops. Just be careful to not wrap your fingers around the trailing edgeof the prop very far, in case it does kick backwards (it can break your handor arm).It's not necessary for you to be in the cockpit, as long as the tail is tieddown very securely. Have you had any instruction in hand-propping? Be sureto start stepping back as you pull on the prop, so your body already hasmomentum away from that meat cleaver in case you fall. It is not necessaryto kick your leg up before pulling down on the prop - that is just forHollywood and actually can make you overbalance and fall headfirst into theprop. If you go to Brodhead later this month Rob Busch and Matt Paxton canboth give excellent advice on hand-propping airplanes.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: "tools"
Starter fluid or choke. Choke it until you hear sucking and should see fuel dripping. Then prop without choke. GeneOn Jul 5, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> I'm sorry, I guess I should start by telling you what engine...it is an A-65. It is a J3 type box. Just so I am clear: do I prime AND choke, or choose/try one or the other? Do we attempt a start while choking, or are we just covering the inlet and "walking" the prop. to get flow started?> > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > Attempting first engine start> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy
Starter fluid or choke. Choke it until you hear sucking and should see fuel dripping. Then prop without choke. GeneOn Jul 5, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> I'm sorry, I guess I should start by telling you what engine...it is an A-65. It is a J3 type box. Just so I am clear: do I prime AND choke, or choose/try one or the other? Do we attempt a start while choking, or are we just covering the inlet and "walking" the prop. to get flow started?> > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > Attempting first engine start> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
I'd check for a stuck needle valve. Is the needle valve attached to the float,or not? Some carbs they are, and some they're not. Light tapping on the carbbowl sometimes helps, air pressure into the bowl can help.Or pull the bowl and double check.If the needle is connected to the float, and you're sure you can hear the floatclunking around, then it's probably alright. Might have to pull the carb tocheck that. I know, I know, NONE of this is fun, especially when everything is safety wired.However, you do need to MAKE SURE the basics are covered.An engine needs three things... air, spark and fuel. The air and spark are theeasiest to check in this configuration. You know you have gas to the bowl, somake sure it can get past the float valve. Then the needle. With the throttle closed, it should prime itself. However, to get stuff flowing,I do agree some external prime (heck, a squirt bottle and a LITTLE gas wouldprobably do the job) is a good idea. Not to offend, but EVERY PULL of that prop can be a life threatening event. EVERYSINGLE ONE, I've had a few hard starts (ALWAYS after the engine was off and/ordrained) and found myself getting complacent pulling that sucker over. Hadto concentrate HARD to pull, and wait, before heading back in to grab the propagain. And manual priming and rocking props can start that thing up. SoBE CAREFUL and establish a GOOD SOLID routine with your switch guy. Don't letall the looky loos giving advice on how to get it running get in the way or distractyou. Be methodical and make only one change at a time. Don't belabor things too mucheither. Make a change, give reasonable time, then move on to something else,keeping in mind, it's usually a very basic thing that's wrong, which remindsus, it can start at ANY time!Lastly, if your arms are getting really tired, you're using bad propping technique.Working up a sweat, getting frustrated, generally pooped, all normal, butthe arms should hold out. Good technique will keep the rest of you in the gamelonger and help you get this figured out.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 08:01:44 -0700
I'd check for a stuck needle valve. Is the needle valve attached to the float,or not? Some carbs they are, and some they're not. Light tapping on the carbbowl sometimes helps, air pressure into the bowl can help.Or pull the bowl and double check.If the needle is connected to the float, and you're sure you can hear the floatclunking around, then it's probably alright. Might have to pull the carb tocheck that. I know, I know, NONE of this is fun, especially when everything is safety wired.However, you do need to MAKE SURE the basics are covered.An engine needs three things... air, spark and fuel. The air and spark are theeasiest to check in this configuration. You know you have gas to the bowl, somake sure it can get past the float valve. Then the needle. With the throttle closed, it should prime itself. However, to get stuff flowing,I do agree some external prime (heck, a squirt bottle and a LITTLE gas wouldprobably do the job) is a good idea. Not to offend, but EVERY PULL of that prop can be a life threatening event. EVERYSINGLE ONE, I've had a few hard starts (ALWAYS after the engine was off and/ordrained) and found myself getting complacent pulling that sucker over. Hadto concentrate HARD to pull, and wait, before heading back in to grab the propagain. And manual priming and rocking props can start that thing up. SoBE CAREFUL and establish a GOOD SOLID routine with your switch guy. Don't letall the looky loos giving advice on how to get it running get in the way or distractyou. Be methodical and make only one change at a time. Don't belabor things too mucheither. Make a change, give reasonable time, then move on to something else,keeping in mind, it's usually a very basic thing that's wrong, which remindsus, it can start at ANY time!Lastly, if your arms are getting really tired, you're using bad propping technique.Working up a sweat, getting frustrated, generally pooped, all normal, butthe arms should hold out. Good technique will keep the rest of you in the gamelonger and help you get this figured out.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 08:01:44 -0700
Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: jim hyde
Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy
Original Posted By: jim hyde
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Never got up yesterday - just didn't feel like fighting such winds, buttoday was spectacular. I took my wife, Karen, up and she got a number ofgood pictures of Smith Mountain Lake, where we live. I never get tired ofthe views flying over the lake. Here is my favorite of the pictures sheshot:Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Never got up yesterday - just didn't feel like fighting such winds, buttoday was spectacular. I took my wife, Karen, up and she got a number ofgood pictures of Smith Mountain Lake, where we live. I never get tired ofthe views flying over the lake. Here is my favorite of the pictures sheshot:Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: Robert Bush
Stupid iphone, it discourages me from writing long enough, so here's thefull story.Marci and I shared a gorgeous 20 minute morning flight, buzzed our house andsome friends houses, landed and started our day.That evening, our entire July 4th party wanted to fly so to the airport wego. Set a Douwe record, 7 flights back to back. Aint much for some of youveterans, but a lot for po ole RE-PIET and Douwe. Was SO much fun. Notsuper strong winds, but CRAZY directionally, constantly shifting, couldalmost never tell which way to take off or land! Once when coming in witha big dude, the wind shifted 180 from my nose to my tail on final!!Gave some people and kids their first real flying experience and everysingle one enjoyed it immensely. My mother in law was crying when welanded. She said it was because of the beauty, but maybe it was my landing,who knows!I can feel RE-PIET chompin' at the bit to stretch her legs a bit in a fewweeks!!!Happy 4th.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Stupid iphone, it discourages me from writing long enough, so here's thefull story.Marci and I shared a gorgeous 20 minute morning flight, buzzed our house andsome friends houses, landed and started our day.That evening, our entire July 4th party wanted to fly so to the airport wego. Set a Douwe record, 7 flights back to back. Aint much for some of youveterans, but a lot for po ole RE-PIET and Douwe. Was SO much fun. Notsuper strong winds, but CRAZY directionally, constantly shifting, couldalmost never tell which way to take off or land! Once when coming in witha big dude, the wind shifted 180 from my nose to my tail on final!!Gave some people and kids their first real flying experience and everysingle one enjoyed it immensely. My mother in law was crying when welanded. She said it was because of the beauty, but maybe it was my landing,who knows!I can feel RE-PIET chompin' at the bit to stretch her legs a bit in a fewweeks!!!Happy 4th.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
Beautiful Jack. I tried to post the pictures my wife took of our flight yesterday but we didn't do something right and it didn't go through. Hope everyone had a great 4th.Randy BushSent from my iPhoneOn Jul 5, 2014, at 12:16 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:> Never got up yesterday =93 just didn=99t feel like fighting such winds, but today was spectacular. I took my wife, Karen, up and she got a number of good pictures of Smith Mountain Lake, where we live. I never get tired of the views flying over the lake. Here is my favorite of the pictures she shot:> > > > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>
Beautiful Jack. I tried to post the pictures my wife took of our flight yesterday but we didn't do something right and it didn't go through. Hope everyone had a great 4th.Randy BushSent from my iPhoneOn Jul 5, 2014, at 12:16 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:> Never got up yesterday =93 just didn=99t feel like fighting such winds, but today was spectacular. I took my wife, Karen, up and she got a number of good pictures of Smith Mountain Lake, where we live. I never get tired of the views flying over the lake. Here is my favorite of the pictures she shot:> > > > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
Jack,Beautiful photo. I was just in Virginia last week, absolutely beautiful! Do I remember that you are that you are planning on an airport bed and breakfast? I visited Kill Devil Hills for the first time, very impressive. They let me take many photos of the 1903 Flyer...close ups.Are your jury struts just round tubing, what size?Thanks,Ray KrauseBuilding SkyScoutSent from my iPad> On Jul 5, 2014, at 10:16 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:> > Never got up yesterday =93 just didn=99t feel like fighting such winds, but today was spectacular. I took my wife, Karen, up and she got a number of good pictures of Smith Mountain Lake, where we live. I never get tired of the views flying over the lake. Here is my favorite of the pictures she shot:> > > > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>
Jack,Beautiful photo. I was just in Virginia last week, absolutely beautiful! Do I remember that you are that you are planning on an airport bed and breakfast? I visited Kill Devil Hills for the first time, very impressive. They let me take many photos of the 1903 Flyer...close ups.Are your jury struts just round tubing, what size?Thanks,Ray KrauseBuilding SkyScoutSent from my iPad> On Jul 5, 2014, at 10:16 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:> > Never got up yesterday =93 just didn=99t feel like fighting such winds, but today was spectacular. I took my wife, Karen, up and she got a number of good pictures of Smith Mountain Lake, where we live. I never get tired of the views flying over the lake. Here is my favorite of the pictures she shot:> > > > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thanks, Ray.We opened our Fly-In Bed & Breakfast last December. You can check it out atwww.bedfordlandings.com . We've had anumber of Fly-in guests, but so far nobody has come in a Pietenpol to staythe night (half off if they do!). We have had some interesting airplanes inhere, such as Gene Rambo's 1927 Travel Air (you might remember seeing it atBrodhead last year). Here is a picture of it in our hangar:As for my jury struts, they are 5/16" x .035" round tubing. Jury struts arenecessary to keep the lift struts from buckling under compression loads, butthey carry almost no load themselves, so they don't need to be very stout.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Thanks, Ray.We opened our Fly-In Bed & Breakfast last December. You can check it out atwww.bedfordlandings.com . We've had anumber of Fly-in guests, but so far nobody has come in a Pietenpol to staythe night (half off if they do!). We have had some interesting airplanes inhere, such as Gene Rambo's 1927 Travel Air (you might remember seeing it atBrodhead last year). Here is a picture of it in our hangar:As for my jury struts, they are 5/16" x .035" round tubing. Jury struts arenecessary to keep the lift struts from buckling under compression loads, butthey carry almost no load themselves, so they don't need to be very stout.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
Thanks, Jack. Your jury struts are the first ones I noticed that were not airfoil in shape. Not sure it would make much difference on such a draggy plane!I will try to remember you Smith Mountain "resort". Maybe pay you a visit someday!Thanks.....nice plane that Rambo guy has!Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 6, 2014, at 5:56 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:> > Thanks, Ray.> > We opened our Fly-In Bed & Breakfast last December. You can check it out at www.bedfordlandings.com . We=99ve had a number of Fly-in guests, but so far nobody has come in a Pietenpol to stay the night (half off if they do!). We have had some interesting airplanes in here, such as Gene Rambo=99s 1927 Travel Air (you might remember seeing it at Brodhead last year). Here is a picture of it in our hangar:> > > > As for my jury struts, they are 5/16=9D x .035=9D round tubing. Jury struts are necessary to keep the lift struts from buckling under compression loads, but they carry almost no load themselves, so they don=99t need to be very stout.> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>
Thanks, Jack. Your jury struts are the first ones I noticed that were not airfoil in shape. Not sure it would make much difference on such a draggy plane!I will try to remember you Smith Mountain "resort". Maybe pay you a visit someday!Thanks.....nice plane that Rambo guy has!Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 6, 2014, at 5:56 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:> > Thanks, Ray.> > We opened our Fly-In Bed & Breakfast last December. You can check it out at www.bedfordlandings.com . We=99ve had a number of Fly-in guests, but so far nobody has come in a Pietenpol to stay the night (half off if they do!). We have had some interesting airplanes in here, such as Gene Rambo=99s 1927 Travel Air (you might remember seeing it at Brodhead last year). Here is a picture of it in our hangar:> > > > As for my jury struts, they are 5/16=9D x .035=9D round tubing. Jury struts are necessary to keep the lift struts from buckling under compression loads, but they carry almost no load themselves, so they don=99t need to be very stout.> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>
> RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone> s.com>> > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such> winds!> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > -----Original Message-----
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone> s.com>> > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such> winds!> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyoneI'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots withgusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in suchwinds!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyoneI'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots withgusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in suchwinds!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
> RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone> s.com>> > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such> winds!> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > -----Original Message-----
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone> s.com>> > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such> winds!> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > -----Original Message-----
> RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone> s.com>> > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such> winds!> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > -----Original Message-----
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone> s.com>> > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such> winds!> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> > -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyoneI'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots withgusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in suchwinds!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyoneI'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots withgusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in suchwinds!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
>> RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Original Posted By:>> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone>> gs.com>>> >> I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with>> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such>> winds!>> >> Jack Phillips>> NX899JP>> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone>> gs.com>>> >> I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with>> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such>> winds!>> >> Jack Phillips>> NX899JP>> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>> >> -----Original Message-----