Original Posted By: "Carl Loar"
Is there an accepted set of detailed plans available for building a steel tube fuselage for the Aircamper?I have great respect for the thought that Mr.. Pietenpol put into the "original" wood fuselage but I also have an appreciation for the strength and beauty of light weight steel tube as well as other appropriate materials. It is one thing to remain steadfast and strong about resistance to change but it is another thing entirely to forgo the remarkable advances in technology which could greatly expand the scope of a beautifully designed craft.I can not speak for Mr. Pietenpol or Leonardo DaVinci for that matter but I cannot believe that both would not have had an appreciation for such new materials, processes and techniques.If I could, I'ld send a box of carbon fiber, epoxy, chrome molly tube and my TIG welder back in time and offer it as a Gift to Mr. Davinci. The world would surely be a different place.Allen Smithallenfarleysmith(at)hotmail.comGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Allen, Yes there is a steel tube Piet and it's in the original plans.It was designed by a Professor Wise I believe for Bernie. Details aboutit are in the Flying and Glider magazine where the original article forthe aircamper was printed.( reprints are availible from EAA ).Carl-----Original Message-----
Allen, Yes there is a steel tube Piet and it's in the original plans.It was designed by a Professor Wise I believe for Bernie. Details aboutit are in the Flying and Glider magazine where the original article forthe aircamper was printed.( reprints are availible from EAA ).Carl-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: "allen smith"
Allen -My Piet plans include a sheet on building a steel tube fuselage. If I wasbuilding a Piet, I think that this is the way I would go. I decided tobuild a Bakeng Duce instead for several reasons, such as having had theplans for 21 years; little big larger, with higher gross and cruise speed,lower stall, sttel tube fuse, etc., etc., etc.Any way, check the plans available from Donald Pietenpol, as they do havethe steel fuselage in them.Craig----- Original Message -----
Allen -My Piet plans include a sheet on building a steel tube fuselage. If I wasbuilding a Piet, I think that this is the way I would go. I decided tobuild a Bakeng Duce instead for several reasons, such as having had theplans for 21 years; little big larger, with higher gross and cruise speed,lower stall, sttel tube fuse, etc., etc., etc.Any way, check the plans available from Donald Pietenpol, as they do havethe steel fuselage in them.Craig----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: Don Mosher
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselageIn a message dated 1/2/01 9:15:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, allenfarleysmith(at)hotmail.com writes:> Is there an accepted set of detailed plans available for building a steel > tube fuselage for the Aircamper?> > Allen,Yes, there is steel tube fuselage design for the short version in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual. Thanks Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:13:10 -0600
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselageIn a message dated 1/2/01 9:15:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, allenfarleysmith(at)hotmail.com writes:> Is there an accepted set of detailed plans available for building a steel > tube fuselage for the Aircamper?> > Allen,Yes, there is steel tube fuselage design for the short version in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual. Thanks Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:13:10 -0600
Re: Pietenpol-List: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: Jack
If I were building again, I'd do a steel tube fuse. I have a wood fuselage.If you can weld, or even tack and have a pro finish them up, it has manyadvantages to my mind.1. It is lighter. Nobody can ever agree upon how much lighterbecause guys will weigh their wood and steel fuselages for comparison butusually in different stages of completion so the numbers are usuallymeaningless. There is consensus however that the steel is lighter, by howmuch exactly is a question. I've heard from five pounds to twenty pounds.Take your pick2. If you can weld it is quicker3. It is stronger, but who cares, the wood fuse is plenty strong4. Possibly cheaper5. Better in a crash6. Much easier to add access door/doors if you're into that.7. One could even say it's original since BP drew plans for it8. You probably have more freedom about the type of tail wheel you canuse since it's a stronger connection. I've heard of a few tail wheelsripping out of wood fuselages for various reasons, usually a rotted back endor a long spring type which gives way too much leverage under side load thanthe wood will take. Drawbacks??1. Lack of coolness/nostalgia factor when you look in the cockpit$.02 Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steel tube fuselage
If I were building again, I'd do a steel tube fuse. I have a wood fuselage.If you can weld, or even tack and have a pro finish them up, it has manyadvantages to my mind.1. It is lighter. Nobody can ever agree upon how much lighterbecause guys will weigh their wood and steel fuselages for comparison butusually in different stages of completion so the numbers are usuallymeaningless. There is consensus however that the steel is lighter, by howmuch exactly is a question. I've heard from five pounds to twenty pounds.Take your pick2. If you can weld it is quicker3. It is stronger, but who cares, the wood fuse is plenty strong4. Possibly cheaper5. Better in a crash6. Much easier to add access door/doors if you're into that.7. One could even say it's original since BP drew plans for it8. You probably have more freedom about the type of tail wheel you canuse since it's a stronger connection. I've heard of a few tail wheelsripping out of wood fuselages for various reasons, usually a rotted back endor a long spring type which gives way too much leverage under side load thanthe wood will take. Drawbacks??1. Lack of coolness/nostalgia factor when you look in the cockpit$.02 Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steel tube fuselage
Re: Pietenpol-List: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: benjamin piet
Fuselage only. No gear, seats, turtledeck. Nada.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:17:01 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steel tube fuselage
Fuselage only. No gear, seats, turtledeck. Nada.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:17:01 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steel tube fuselage
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: "stearmandriver"
Bill Church wrote:> Stumbled across this video on Youtube:> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKUwdF17HNQ> > Very Nice.> > BCWOW! That is a great video! But more importantly -- Congratulations to Jack ona fantastic first flight!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Bill Church wrote:> Stumbled across this video on Youtube:> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKUwdF17HNQ> > Very Nice.> > BCWOW! That is a great video! But more importantly -- Congratulations to Jack ona fantastic first flight!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College #33 Update
Original Posted By: "David McBride"
Hey guys, long time lurker here.I would like to chime in on the old steel vs. wood if I may. I have been collectingsteel tube for my Piet as well. Wood is very nice and safe, I just likeworking with steel as much as I do wood. I do see some comments about steelbeing cheaper. Please don't think this for a moment longer. If you go the 4130Nroute. (and by the way, you don't have to) It will almost double the costof the fuselage to build maybe more. You can use a 1020 series of tube, likePiper, Taylorcraft, Boeing, and for that matter most of the classics used. 1026will still cost more than a wood fuselage. It will be lighter and strongerand more crashworthy if the planets align and you crash "kinda hard".As far as guys saying "I cant weld", well you could'nt fly a tail dragger eitherwhen you first started.... Welding just takes a little practice. I TIG forfun, instead of playing golf. It does not take long to develop the skills. Gaswelding is perfect for tube construction. Sets are relatively inexpensive.TIG is nice and clean but completely not required to build a fuselage. Back into my hole.Thanks for reading.Dave HughesRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College #33 Update
Hey guys, long time lurker here.I would like to chime in on the old steel vs. wood if I may. I have been collectingsteel tube for my Piet as well. Wood is very nice and safe, I just likeworking with steel as much as I do wood. I do see some comments about steelbeing cheaper. Please don't think this for a moment longer. If you go the 4130Nroute. (and by the way, you don't have to) It will almost double the costof the fuselage to build maybe more. You can use a 1020 series of tube, likePiper, Taylorcraft, Boeing, and for that matter most of the classics used. 1026will still cost more than a wood fuselage. It will be lighter and strongerand more crashworthy if the planets align and you crash "kinda hard".As far as guys saying "I cant weld", well you could'nt fly a tail dragger eitherwhen you first started.... Welding just takes a little practice. I TIG forfun, instead of playing golf. It does not take long to develop the skills. Gaswelding is perfect for tube construction. Sets are relatively inexpensive.TIG is nice and clean but completely not required to build a fuselage. Back into my hole.Thanks for reading.Dave HughesRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College #33 Update
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College #33 Update
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Terry,Were you at barnwell for cc31? I cant remember if we met. So many great peopleat these events, with lots of sights, sounds and information to take in . Wishi was coming to this one.--------David McBride Rochester, NY dmcb84(at)hotmail.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College #33 Update
Terry,Were you at barnwell for cc31? I cant remember if we met. So many great peopleat these events, with lots of sights, sounds and information to take in . Wishi was coming to this one.--------David McBride Rochester, NY dmcb84(at)hotmail.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College #33 Update
Original Posted By: danhelsper(at)aol.com
David,I wrote this story, with a lot of photos, http://flycorvair.net/2014/11/18/pieten ... ecifically about the Piet builders who were present at CC#31 at Barnwell lastfall. It has lots of pictures of people who are regular contributors to thissite. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 06:28:46 -0400
David,I wrote this story, with a lot of photos, http://flycorvair.net/2014/11/18/pieten ... ecifically about the Piet builders who were present at CC#31 at Barnwell lastfall. It has lots of pictures of people who are regular contributors to thissite. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 06:28:46 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Congratulations Jack for the completion and first flight of your beautiful lookingPiet. I watched the video during lunch yesterday. Whoever did that did agreat job. May you have many wonderful hours flying your machine.Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Congratulations Jack for the completion and first flight of your beautiful lookingPiet. I watched the video during lunch yesterday. Whoever did that did agreat job. May you have many wonderful hours flying your machine.Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: Jack
Builders,Small but important correction: Many pre-war light planes were built of 1025 tubing,not 1020. there is a difference in strength, but mostly I wanted to pointthat out because I didn't want anyone to read it and get started shopping andmistakenly buy 1020 tubing because it is cheap. It isn't up for the job. Andby the time you find 1025, you might as well buy 4130.There is less than 50 pounds of tubing in a Piet, including waste cut off. Theaverage price of 4130 is less than $10 a pound from aircraft spruce. $500 forthe tubing in a fuselage isn't a fortune, and choosing to try to save money thereis poor judgment. It is a myth that 1025 is significantly easier to weld;If you could only weld one, but couldn't do another that was 10% harder, you needa lot more practice because that isn't an acceptable margin of skill for weldsthat flyStart with a tig, learn the skill, invest in yourself. If you don't have the money,go back to wood as a material. First time gas welded fuselages often havepoor fitting attachments, and the same weldor would have done a much better jobwith a tig, even a cheap one. Our own plane, the Wagabond started life as a 1964 Piper PA-22-108. It was the10th to last Piper ever built at Lockhaven, Were 50,000 steel tube fuselages weregas welded. The welds are magnificent on it, done by people who all lost theirjobs the following week. That kind of gas welding takes longer to learn thantig welding with the advancements of auto helmets and superimposed HF forstarting.More stories on welding: http://flycorvair.net/2014/01/23/cc28-l ... etc-2/Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Builders,Small but important correction: Many pre-war light planes were built of 1025 tubing,not 1020. there is a difference in strength, but mostly I wanted to pointthat out because I didn't want anyone to read it and get started shopping andmistakenly buy 1020 tubing because it is cheap. It isn't up for the job. Andby the time you find 1025, you might as well buy 4130.There is less than 50 pounds of tubing in a Piet, including waste cut off. Theaverage price of 4130 is less than $10 a pound from aircraft spruce. $500 forthe tubing in a fuselage isn't a fortune, and choosing to try to save money thereis poor judgment. It is a myth that 1025 is significantly easier to weld;If you could only weld one, but couldn't do another that was 10% harder, you needa lot more practice because that isn't an acceptable margin of skill for weldsthat flyStart with a tig, learn the skill, invest in yourself. If you don't have the money,go back to wood as a material. First time gas welded fuselages often havepoor fitting attachments, and the same weldor would have done a much better jobwith a tig, even a cheap one. Our own plane, the Wagabond started life as a 1964 Piper PA-22-108. It was the10th to last Piper ever built at Lockhaven, Were 50,000 steel tube fuselages weregas welded. The welds are magnificent on it, done by people who all lost theirjobs the following week. That kind of gas welding takes longer to learn thantig welding with the advancements of auto helmets and superimposed HF forstarting.More stories on welding: http://flycorvair.net/2014/01/23/cc28-l ... etc-2/Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
Original Posted By: John Hofmann
Dan,I will be at Sun N Fun all week. I'm an aircraft judge and he can look me up at the judges area behind the antique type tent. I'll be glade to share with him all little that I know=F0=9F=98=9CJackSent from my iPad> On Apr 1, 2015, at 6:28 AM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:> > Mr. Fernando Risso from Argentina monitors this list. He is planning to build a Pietenpol, and has asked me off-list whether there will be any folks at Sun N Fun that own Pietenpols that he can talk with when he visits there? Please chime-in if you can.> > Dan Helsper> Loensloe Airfield> Puryear, TN> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
Dan,I will be at Sun N Fun all week. I'm an aircraft judge and he can look me up at the judges area behind the antique type tent. I'll be glade to share with him all little that I know=F0=9F=98=9CJackSent from my iPad> On Apr 1, 2015, at 6:28 AM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:> > Mr. Fernando Risso from Argentina monitors this list. He is planning to build a Pietenpol, and has asked me off-list whether there will be any folks at Sun N Fun that own Pietenpols that he can talk with when he visits there? Please chime-in if you can.> > Dan Helsper> Loensloe Airfield> Puryear, TN> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
I will be in the type club tent all week and will also be doing a Pietenpol forum for those wanting to build. I will post the times soon.Best,-john-> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:09 AM, Jack wrote:> > Dan,> I will be at Sun N Fun all week. I'm an aircraft judge and he can look me up at the judges area behind the antique type tent. I'll be glade to share with him all little that I know=F0=9F=98=9C> Jack> > Sent from my iPad> > On Apr 1, 2015, at 6:28 AM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:> >> Mr. Fernando Risso from Argentina monitors this list. He is planning to build a Pietenpol, and has asked me off-list whether there will be any folks at Sun N Fun that own Pietenpols that he can talk with when he visits there? Please chime-in if you can.>> >> Dan Helsper>> Loensloe Airfield>> Puryear, TN>> >> >> ========================>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> ========================>> cs.com>> ========================>> matronics.com/contribution>> ========================>> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
I will be in the type club tent all week and will also be doing a Pietenpol forum for those wanting to build. I will post the times soon.Best,-john-> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:09 AM, Jack wrote:> > Dan,> I will be at Sun N Fun all week. I'm an aircraft judge and he can look me up at the judges area behind the antique type tent. I'll be glade to share with him all little that I know=F0=9F=98=9C> Jack> > Sent from my iPad> > On Apr 1, 2015, at 6:28 AM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:> >> Mr. Fernando Risso from Argentina monitors this list. He is planning to build a Pietenpol, and has asked me off-list whether there will be any folks at Sun N Fun that own Pietenpols that he can talk with when he visits there? Please chime-in if you can.>> >> Dan Helsper>> Loensloe Airfield>> Puryear, TN>> >> >> ========================>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> ========================>> cs.com>> ========================>> matronics.com/contribution>> ========================>> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
I will be in the wood workshop all week. We will be making ribs and tailfeathersSent from my iPhone> On Apr 1, 2015, at 10:19 AM, John Hofmann wrote:> > I will be in the type club tent all week and will also be doing a Pietenpol forum for those wanting to build. I will post the times soon.> > Best,> -john-> > >> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:09 AM, Jack wrote:>> >> Dan,>> I will be at Sun N Fun all week. I'm an aircraft judge and he can look me up at the judges area behind the antique type tent. I'll be glade to share with him all little that I know=F0=9F=98=9C>> Jack>> >> Sent from my iPad>> >>> On Apr 1, 2015, at 6:28 AM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:>>> >>> Mr. Fernando Risso from Argentina monitors this list. He is planning to build a Pietenpol, and has asked me off-list whether there will be any folks at Sun N Fun that own Pietenpols that he can talk with when he visits there? Please chime-in if you can.>>> >>> Dan Helsper>>> Loensloe Airfield>>> Puryear, TN>>> >>> >>> =========>>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>>> =========>>> cs.com>>> =========>>> matronics.com/contribution>>> =========>>> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> class="">http://forums.matronics.com>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
I will be in the wood workshop all week. We will be making ribs and tailfeathersSent from my iPhone> On Apr 1, 2015, at 10:19 AM, John Hofmann wrote:> > I will be in the type club tent all week and will also be doing a Pietenpol forum for those wanting to build. I will post the times soon.> > Best,> -john-> > >> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:09 AM, Jack wrote:>> >> Dan,>> I will be at Sun N Fun all week. I'm an aircraft judge and he can look me up at the judges area behind the antique type tent. I'll be glade to share with him all little that I know=F0=9F=98=9C>> Jack>> >> Sent from my iPad>> >>> On Apr 1, 2015, at 6:28 AM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:>>> >>> Mr. Fernando Risso from Argentina monitors this list. He is planning to build a Pietenpol, and has asked me off-list whether there will be any folks at Sun N Fun that own Pietenpols that he can talk with when he visits there? Please chime-in if you can.>>> >>> Dan Helsper>>> Loensloe Airfield>>> Puryear, TN>>> >>> >>> =========>>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>>> =========>>> cs.com>>> =========>>> matronics.com/contribution>>> =========>>> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> class="">http://forums.matronics.com>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Skip Gadd is already there and will be there for the entire time working with Ben(I assume) in the Hands On Woodworking Area.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
Skip Gadd is already there and will be there for the entire time working with Ben(I assume) in the Hands On Woodworking Area.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
Original Posted By: Bill Budgell
Dan,Since Mr. Risso is traveling 5,000 miles, I would like to see if we can get hima flight in a Piet if possible. I Don't know if Ben or any of the other SnF gangwill be flying in, and that airshow is really a restrictive setting for ademonstration. As an alternative, if it can be put together, We will have BobLester's Piet at Corvair College #33 90 miles up the road at the Eustis airport,which is the perfect setting for a Piet flight. .Bob's Plane is the last picture at this link: http://flycorvair.net/2014/11/18/pieten ... ollege-31/ At Barnwell he gave a number of flights, and his plane is powerful enough to safely pull the weight of any passenger who can fit into the front pit. Some of the people he flew at at Barnwell were 260+ pounds, and the plane still has a very strong climb rate. He has a first class engine with a 5th bearing and an MA3-spa arrangement. .Normally we need to have everyone headed to a college sign up, but in the caseof Mr. Risso, Grace and I will be glad to have him as a personal guest. If anyof you guys are going to be his guide/driver in Florida, we will be glad to haveyou for the day also. The College is a little before SnF, but if can be madeto work, I will coordinate stuff on our end. If one of you guys would liketo put this together, email me off list at WilliamTCA(at)aol.com. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 19:59:00 +0000 (UTC)
Dan,Since Mr. Risso is traveling 5,000 miles, I would like to see if we can get hima flight in a Piet if possible. I Don't know if Ben or any of the other SnF gangwill be flying in, and that airshow is really a restrictive setting for ademonstration. As an alternative, if it can be put together, We will have BobLester's Piet at Corvair College #33 90 miles up the road at the Eustis airport,which is the perfect setting for a Piet flight. .Bob's Plane is the last picture at this link: http://flycorvair.net/2014/11/18/pieten ... ollege-31/ At Barnwell he gave a number of flights, and his plane is powerful enough to safely pull the weight of any passenger who can fit into the front pit. Some of the people he flew at at Barnwell were 260+ pounds, and the plane still has a very strong climb rate. He has a first class engine with a 5th bearing and an MA3-spa arrangement. .Normally we need to have everyone headed to a college sign up, but in the caseof Mr. Risso, Grace and I will be glad to have him as a personal guest. If anyof you guys are going to be his guide/driver in Florida, we will be glad to haveyou for the day also. The College is a little before SnF, but if can be madeto work, I will coordinate stuff on our end. If one of you guys would liketo put this together, email me off list at WilliamTCA(at)aol.com. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 19:59:00 +0000 (UTC)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: Michael Conkling
Thanks for the civil replies to my ramblings! I have all the drawings for earlyPipers and the A75N1 from Boeing. I must have missed the 4130N for the highstress areas. Absolutely correct on 1020 vs. 1025. TIG welding is so preciseand enjoyable for me, but I still think a beginning welder is well served bylearning puddle control with a gas setup. A good gas welder will be an excellentTIG welder once the myriad of subtleties are learned. I think gas weldingis a great training tool for people wanting to get started with TIG.Best RegardsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 16:42:40 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Thanks for the civil replies to my ramblings! I have all the drawings for earlyPipers and the A75N1 from Boeing. I must have missed the 4130N for the highstress areas. Absolutely correct on 1020 vs. 1025. TIG welding is so preciseand enjoyable for me, but I still think a beginning welder is well served bylearning puddle control with a gas setup. A good gas welder will be an excellentTIG welder once the myriad of subtleties are learned. I think gas weldingis a great training tool for people wanting to get started with TIG.Best RegardsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 16:42:40 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
Original Posted By:>> jarheadpilot82
If you hang around a while we will put you to work!Sent from my iPhone> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:10 PM, Yahoo! Account Service wrote:> > > Yes, I will be here all week in the Hands On Woodworking Area, just across thestreet from the International Welcome Tent. Ben and Jack will also be thereand Piet people usually drop by all the time. If Mr. Risso can make it by I'msure he will get lots of Piet talk, and we will make him feel welcome.> Skip> > -----Original Message-----
If you hang around a while we will put you to work!Sent from my iPhone> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:10 PM, Yahoo! Account Service wrote:> > > Yes, I will be here all week in the Hands On Woodworking Area, just across thestreet from the International Welcome Tent. Ben and Jack will also be thereand Piet people usually drop by all the time. If Mr. Risso can make it by I'msure he will get lots of Piet talk, and we will make him feel welcome.> Skip> > -----Original Message-----
>> Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners at Sun N Fun?
Original Posted By: Michael Groah
Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering June 6, 2015
Original Posted By: "THOMAS.233327"
Count me in. Looking forward to it. Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 18:52:44 +0000 (UTC)
Count me in. Looking forward to it. Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 18:52:44 +0000 (UTC)
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: JOSEPH SWITHIN
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering June 6, 2015
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
NX308MB will be there, too! I look forward to flying alongside, Scott...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
NX308MB will be there, too! I look forward to flying alongside, Scott...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Tom,I am going to say this with courtesy. I am sure that your experience has validatedwhat you have heard or seen of been lead to believe, but I don't want anyoneon the list considering Tig welding to be discouraged in any way by your commentsabout "Can/will" crack, because I have personally Tig welded parts thathave flown on several hundred planes, and I am going to say this in the nicesway possible, my experience is that you are 100% wrong.Has anyone ever heard of a plage of weld cracking on 8,000 fly RV series aircraft?They are 100% Tig welded. Are there AD's againd all the certified Pitt's welds?No, because they are Tig welded, and they don't crack. Likewise for Migwelded Maules and so on. I have been to many, many light aircraft factories, andeveryone uses Tig these days, and they don't post treat the welds. Look atthe link to my welding stories, and See that my side kick Vern welded aircraftfor the USN at the Jacksonville NADEP for 20 years, and it was all Tig, and nothingwas post treated.I like old stuff, and I can gas weld very well, and I taught the subject in Embry-Riddle'sA&P department. But that doesn't mean that Tig welding doesn't workbetter, period. Spreading myths about cracking is only discouraging new peoplefrom learning a very good skill, and knowing how to use a great tool.I welded Terry Hand's Piet landing gear legs today.....With a tig welder. I didn'tpost treat it. According to your theory, I have done something unairworthyand I am endangering him. I disagree. I also welded the last 300 motors mountsI made the same way. If Tig welds crack as you believe, clearly I am makinga big mistake. But my 26 years of welding aircraft parts says I am not, the industrysays I am not, and the USN says I am not. Discouraging people from learning a skill because of an old wives tale isn't supportingthe concept of "Learn build and fly" particualry if that skill is theproven industry dominant method. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Tom,I am going to say this with courtesy. I am sure that your experience has validatedwhat you have heard or seen of been lead to believe, but I don't want anyoneon the list considering Tig welding to be discouraged in any way by your commentsabout "Can/will" crack, because I have personally Tig welded parts thathave flown on several hundred planes, and I am going to say this in the nicesway possible, my experience is that you are 100% wrong.Has anyone ever heard of a plage of weld cracking on 8,000 fly RV series aircraft?They are 100% Tig welded. Are there AD's againd all the certified Pitt's welds?No, because they are Tig welded, and they don't crack. Likewise for Migwelded Maules and so on. I have been to many, many light aircraft factories, andeveryone uses Tig these days, and they don't post treat the welds. Look atthe link to my welding stories, and See that my side kick Vern welded aircraftfor the USN at the Jacksonville NADEP for 20 years, and it was all Tig, and nothingwas post treated.I like old stuff, and I can gas weld very well, and I taught the subject in Embry-Riddle'sA&P department. But that doesn't mean that Tig welding doesn't workbetter, period. Spreading myths about cracking is only discouraging new peoplefrom learning a very good skill, and knowing how to use a great tool.I welded Terry Hand's Piet landing gear legs today.....With a tig welder. I didn'tpost treat it. According to your theory, I have done something unairworthyand I am endangering him. I disagree. I also welded the last 300 motors mountsI made the same way. If Tig welds crack as you believe, clearly I am makinga big mistake. But my 26 years of welding aircraft parts says I am not, the industrysays I am not, and the USN says I am not. Discouraging people from learning a skill because of an old wives tale isn't supportingthe concept of "Learn build and fly" particualry if that skill is theproven industry dominant method. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: "tools"
While it is true that 4130 structures that have been TIG welded should be normalizedafter welding, there is one caveat that is important to those building aircraft.The need for post weld normalizing really only applies to 4130 thicknessesof 1/8" or more, or if 4130 filler rod has been used. There isn't anymetal on a Pietenpol fuselage that is 1/8" thick (or more), so normalizing willnot be required. Use either ER70S-2 or ER80S-D2 filler rods, and make surethat the metal is room temperature or warmer. It is ESSENTIAL that the weldsbe allowed to cool slowly, in still air.MIG welding of 4130 tubing requires very specific processes, performed by skilledoperators. Best left to the professionals.While the equipment costs of TIG are considerably higher than Gas, the learningcurve is much shorter for TIG. Shorter learning curve = lower levels of frustration= higher likelihood of success.2 cents (Canadian)Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
While it is true that 4130 structures that have been TIG welded should be normalizedafter welding, there is one caveat that is important to those building aircraft.The need for post weld normalizing really only applies to 4130 thicknessesof 1/8" or more, or if 4130 filler rod has been used. There isn't anymetal on a Pietenpol fuselage that is 1/8" thick (or more), so normalizing willnot be required. Use either ER70S-2 or ER80S-D2 filler rods, and make surethat the metal is room temperature or warmer. It is ESSENTIAL that the weldsbe allowed to cool slowly, in still air.MIG welding of 4130 tubing requires very specific processes, performed by skilledoperators. Best left to the professionals.While the equipment costs of TIG are considerably higher than Gas, the learningcurve is much shorter for TIG. Shorter learning curve = lower levels of frustration= higher likelihood of success.2 cents (Canadian)Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: "THOMAS.233327"
I wouldn't automatically say the cost of tig welding is higher. I've bought twocomplete industrial quality tig rigs each for less than a decent set of bottles,regulators and hoses. There are a lot of reliable, single phase, American made tig rigs available latelyfor less than $500, complete and ready to weld. Including the argon bottleand regulator.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 04:49:20 +0000 (UTC)
I wouldn't automatically say the cost of tig welding is higher. I've bought twocomplete industrial quality tig rigs each for less than a decent set of bottles,regulators and hoses. There are a lot of reliable, single phase, American made tig rigs available latelyfor less than $500, complete and ready to weld. Including the argon bottleand regulator.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 04:49:20 +0000 (UTC)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
We use tig welding in all our aircraft parts. Even some that go over 400 mphwith no problem. JerrySky Classic-----Original Message-----
We use tig welding in all our aircraft parts. Even some that go over 400 mphwith no problem. JerrySky Classic-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: "tkreiner"
Hello good Piet-ple,A friend of mine is setting up his hangar/workshop to build an RV-7. He has alreadybuilt the empennage but that was in his basement. We were in touch aboutworkshop ideas so I thought I'd pass along a few of my ideas here as well - forwhat it is worth:1) Storage bins I have 50 identical/interchangeable Sterilite storage bins. (Iwould have more like 80 if I would do it again.) The trick is having the rightsize, not too big or too small. This way all the like items go together ineach bin. Example ALL my screwdrivers are in one bin EVERY ONE. I dont have tokeep looking around to find screwdrivers cause if it aint in that drawer, itaint in my shop. Also, when I clean up I just grab all the screwdrivers and dumpthem in the drawer really fast and WAY better than hooks/pegs/shadow boards,etc..2) EVERYTHING except the workbench is on wheels and in my case on the chrome/openracks from Costco or Storables. This way I can move things around dependingon what I am doing and how I have to arrange the fuselage/wings/tools, etc.I have bins on the shelves below each moving cart that contain stuff relatedto that cart. Example, my METAL cutting bandsaw and metal press brake are onthe same cart. All the 4130 pieces and press brake dies are on bins on that samecart. Similar, all the WOOD tools (bandsaw, chop saw, drill press) are on anothercart, and GRINDING/SANDING are on another.3) I store all the COMPLETED parts in the crawl space above the garage. This letsme keep only the parts I am actively working on in the shop.4) I store as little raw material as I can. I have some sheets of metal and somepartial sheets of various a/c plywood but I dont have the room to store moreso I buy only what I need when I need it (Lowes is open till 9:00 or so everyday!)The shop has evolved over the past seven years but many of the items I list abovehave been things that I have found to help.--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/comp ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Hello good Piet-ple,A friend of mine is setting up his hangar/workshop to build an RV-7. He has alreadybuilt the empennage but that was in his basement. We were in touch aboutworkshop ideas so I thought I'd pass along a few of my ideas here as well - forwhat it is worth:1) Storage bins I have 50 identical/interchangeable Sterilite storage bins. (Iwould have more like 80 if I would do it again.) The trick is having the rightsize, not too big or too small. This way all the like items go together ineach bin. Example ALL my screwdrivers are in one bin EVERY ONE. I dont have tokeep looking around to find screwdrivers cause if it aint in that drawer, itaint in my shop. Also, when I clean up I just grab all the screwdrivers and dumpthem in the drawer really fast and WAY better than hooks/pegs/shadow boards,etc..2) EVERYTHING except the workbench is on wheels and in my case on the chrome/openracks from Costco or Storables. This way I can move things around dependingon what I am doing and how I have to arrange the fuselage/wings/tools, etc.I have bins on the shelves below each moving cart that contain stuff relatedto that cart. Example, my METAL cutting bandsaw and metal press brake are onthe same cart. All the 4130 pieces and press brake dies are on bins on that samecart. Similar, all the WOOD tools (bandsaw, chop saw, drill press) are on anothercart, and GRINDING/SANDING are on another.3) I store all the COMPLETED parts in the crawl space above the garage. This letsme keep only the parts I am actively working on in the shop.4) I store as little raw material as I can. I have some sheets of metal and somepartial sheets of various a/c plywood but I dont have the room to store moreso I buy only what I need when I need it (Lowes is open till 9:00 or so everyday!)The shop has evolved over the past seven years but many of the items I list abovehave been things that I have found to help.--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/comp ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: "tools"
Before you go jump to conclusions about Eastwood Welders, go read the reviews -all of them - at Amazon, and other sites. Many of the reviews rave about thequality, and ease of use of the Eastwood line. Oh, before I forget, Eastwooddesigns & manufactures their current product line in the U.S. While some other welders may be manufactured in China, another very nice line ofwelders, the Everlast line, made in China to US Specifications, is a close knockoff of Miller's line. What the two units have in common is an IGBT unitmade by Siemens. This is the heart of the new welders, and it's the same part. Everlast also provides a 5 year warranty on their equipment. Many folks diss Chinese items routinely, and while I'm not defending any of theirproducts or practices, I think that in time, we'll find that their productsare as good as those made by Japan. If you'll remember, Japanese products werewidely referred to as Japanese junk. Tell that to Lexus...--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Before you go jump to conclusions about Eastwood Welders, go read the reviews -all of them - at Amazon, and other sites. Many of the reviews rave about thequality, and ease of use of the Eastwood line. Oh, before I forget, Eastwooddesigns & manufactures their current product line in the U.S. While some other welders may be manufactured in China, another very nice line ofwelders, the Everlast line, made in China to US Specifications, is a close knockoff of Miller's line. What the two units have in common is an IGBT unitmade by Siemens. This is the heart of the new welders, and it's the same part. Everlast also provides a 5 year warranty on their equipment. Many folks diss Chinese items routinely, and while I'm not defending any of theirproducts or practices, I think that in time, we'll find that their productsare as good as those made by Japan. If you'll remember, Japanese products werewidely referred to as Japanese junk. Tell that to Lexus...--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
Original Posted By: "Bush Camper"
We will miss Mr. Potts.It should serve as a reminder though that even CAA Regional Inspectors willmeet their day of judgment.They need to bear this in mind when they ramp check us, or refuse to allowus to use "NX" on our airplanes!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage
We will miss Mr. Potts.It should serve as a reminder though that even CAA Regional Inspectors willmeet their day of judgment.They need to bear this in mind when they ramp check us, or refuse to allowus to use "NX" on our airplanes!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage