Original Posted By: Matt Paxton
No picture, Matt.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 16:55:45 -0500Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pic of pic of Dan's airplane
Pietenpol-List: Pic of pic of Dan's airplane
Pietenpol-List: Re: Arizona Piet
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
I always hate to waste an opportunity to look closely at a photo and pick out interestingdetails. Since the list has been so slow lately, I'll pick out a fewthings that I see on the pic of Dan's beautiful airplane and post them herefor comment.First, the prop. It's not at all evident from the magazine photo (all you seeis a black blob where the prop is), but Dan's Ford swings a really nice hand-carvedsemi-scimitar with a dark wood finish. Beautiful piece of work and I'msure that the rest of you who have hand-carved and flown your own prop can agreethat it's a very satisfying feeling to fly behind what used to be a bunch ofglued-together boards and have it pull you through the air as pretty as youplease! I would encourage you who have (Gary Boothe has made several, for example)to write about it in the BPA Newsletter. It's something that can be donein a relatively small and warm work space during the winter and the result ispleasing whether it goes on the plane or on the wall.The fuel level indicator on Dan's plane is pretty obvious, and there has been quitea bit of chatter on this list about different ways of constructing a sightgauge for a centersection wing tank. Dan seems to have a Stearman-style gaugesticking out the bottom of the tank but I don't know the particulars. He mayhave made his after the fashion of Larry "Top Curmudgeon" Williams's and infact, I seem to remember something about Dan taking over the lofty perch of TopCurmudgeon himself. I couldn't find a specific photo of Larry's gauge on Westcoastpiet.combut boy was it fun going through the photos of Larry's planeto see if I could find them! I guess I never realized that Larry's centersectionflop is offset to the port side by about a foot, but take a look:http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Larry%2 ... rtment.jpg .He could stash a couple of bottles of iced tea up there in the wing along witha jumbo order of hot wings, some napkins, some jelly rolls for dessert, tie-downs,a quart of Aeroshell 50, and (for you Ford flyers)- some bottles of enginecoolant.Now take a look out near the wingtips. There are a pair of inspection covers outnear the ends of the wings. Hmmm... what are they for? No pulleys out there,no pitot tubing, nothing adjustable. Aha! The wing internal x-brace cablesare attached out there, and you need to look at those points at annual inspection.Don't forget those!Wing tie-downs. Dan's airplane doesn't seem to have them, I know my airplane doesn't,so we just loop the ropes over the ends of the strut fittings and snugthem down. However, I would hate to have to run tiedown *chains* over my strutends! A good thing to add to your wings if you're still in the planning andbuilding stage! Anybody seen good ways to do wing tiedowns? Write it up forthe BPA Newsletter!Back at the tail, the picture gets a bit muddy but there are the elevator cables,touching the leading edges of the horizontal stabilizers just like a good AirCamper should. My A&P still winces when he looks at mine, but I showed himthe pictures and he agrees that it's normal for the bottom cables to go slackand the top ones to touch the leading edges ;o)Back up to the engine, I think Dan said he had to experiment with the coolant linesgoing to the radiator, but maybe I'm thinking of somebody else. The steamrelief line from the top/front of the head is essential, which is obvious whenyou view the airplane in the 3-point attitude and realize that the top of theengine is well above the level of the hose going to the radiator from the rearof the engine and that steam (and air) will get trapped at the top if a secondline is not provided. I can't speak from any experience about coolant, thermostats,overflow recovery tanks, or anything having to do with water-cooledengines on Piets but considering that they've been flying for 85 years on hundredsof Air Campers, it can't be a complete mystery...--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Arizona Piet
I always hate to waste an opportunity to look closely at a photo and pick out interestingdetails. Since the list has been so slow lately, I'll pick out a fewthings that I see on the pic of Dan's beautiful airplane and post them herefor comment.First, the prop. It's not at all evident from the magazine photo (all you seeis a black blob where the prop is), but Dan's Ford swings a really nice hand-carvedsemi-scimitar with a dark wood finish. Beautiful piece of work and I'msure that the rest of you who have hand-carved and flown your own prop can agreethat it's a very satisfying feeling to fly behind what used to be a bunch ofglued-together boards and have it pull you through the air as pretty as youplease! I would encourage you who have (Gary Boothe has made several, for example)to write about it in the BPA Newsletter. It's something that can be donein a relatively small and warm work space during the winter and the result ispleasing whether it goes on the plane or on the wall.The fuel level indicator on Dan's plane is pretty obvious, and there has been quitea bit of chatter on this list about different ways of constructing a sightgauge for a centersection wing tank. Dan seems to have a Stearman-style gaugesticking out the bottom of the tank but I don't know the particulars. He mayhave made his after the fashion of Larry "Top Curmudgeon" Williams's and infact, I seem to remember something about Dan taking over the lofty perch of TopCurmudgeon himself. I couldn't find a specific photo of Larry's gauge on Westcoastpiet.combut boy was it fun going through the photos of Larry's planeto see if I could find them! I guess I never realized that Larry's centersectionflop is offset to the port side by about a foot, but take a look:http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Larry%2 ... rtment.jpg .He could stash a couple of bottles of iced tea up there in the wing along witha jumbo order of hot wings, some napkins, some jelly rolls for dessert, tie-downs,a quart of Aeroshell 50, and (for you Ford flyers)- some bottles of enginecoolant.Now take a look out near the wingtips. There are a pair of inspection covers outnear the ends of the wings. Hmmm... what are they for? No pulleys out there,no pitot tubing, nothing adjustable. Aha! The wing internal x-brace cablesare attached out there, and you need to look at those points at annual inspection.Don't forget those!Wing tie-downs. Dan's airplane doesn't seem to have them, I know my airplane doesn't,so we just loop the ropes over the ends of the strut fittings and snugthem down. However, I would hate to have to run tiedown *chains* over my strutends! A good thing to add to your wings if you're still in the planning andbuilding stage! Anybody seen good ways to do wing tiedowns? Write it up forthe BPA Newsletter!Back at the tail, the picture gets a bit muddy but there are the elevator cables,touching the leading edges of the horizontal stabilizers just like a good AirCamper should. My A&P still winces when he looks at mine, but I showed himthe pictures and he agrees that it's normal for the bottom cables to go slackand the top ones to touch the leading edges ;o)Back up to the engine, I think Dan said he had to experiment with the coolant linesgoing to the radiator, but maybe I'm thinking of somebody else. The steamrelief line from the top/front of the head is essential, which is obvious whenyou view the airplane in the 3-point attitude and realize that the top of theengine is well above the level of the hose going to the radiator from the rearof the engine and that steam (and air) will get trapped at the top if a secondline is not provided. I can't speak from any experience about coolant, thermostats,overflow recovery tanks, or anything having to do with water-cooledengines on Piets but considering that they've been flying for 85 years on hundredsof Air Campers, it can't be a complete mystery...--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Arizona Piet
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pic of pic of Dan's airplane
Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
Oscar,Thanks for taking the time to post your observations on Don's beautiful Piet. It takes a lot of time to make the observations AND write the letter. Your observationsare excellent and, I'm sure, helpful to many builders...including me!I had the privilege of seeing Don's beautiful plane and meeting him at Brodheadthis Summer! What a beautiful plane and fine gentleman. I took many picturesof his plane and stole many ideas from him for my build! Other ideas will haveto wait for my next build.Someday I hope to post something in the newsletter about my trials and tribulationsbuilding my Sky Scout. It may trigger a lot of conversations about "alternatemethods" that may have been better. I also admire William Wynn's way ofsometimes pointing out potential problems that may lead to possible undesirableresults. All comments are helpful when done in a constructive way. That is one of the benefitsof this forum!Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Nov 15, 2015, at 9:41 PM, taildrags wrote:> > > I always hate to waste an opportunity to look closely at a photo and pick outinteresting details. Since the list has been so slow lately, I'll pick out afew things that I see on the pic of Dan's beautiful airplane and post them herefor comment.> > First, the prop. It's not at all evident from the magazine photo (all you seeis a black blob where the prop is), but Dan's Ford swings a really nice hand-carvedsemi-scimitar with a dark wood finish. Beautiful piece of work and I'msure that the rest of you who have hand-carved and flown your own prop can agreethat it's a very satisfying feeling to fly behind what used to be a bunchof glued-together boards and have it pull you through the air as pretty as youplease! I would encourage you who have (Gary Boothe has made several, for example)to write about it in the BPA Newsletter. It's something that can be donein a relatively small and warm work space during the winter and the resultis pleasing whether it goes on the plane or on the wall.> > The fuel level indicator on Dan's plane is pretty obvious, and there has beenquite a bit of chatter on this list about different ways of constructing a sightgauge for a centersection wing tank. Dan seems to have a Stearman-style gaugesticking out the bottom of the tank but I don't know the particulars. Hemay have made his after the fashion of Larry "Top Curmudgeon" Williams's andin fact, I seem to remember something about Dan taking over the lofty perch ofTop Curmudgeon himself. I couldn't find a specific photo of Larry's gauge onWestcoastpiet.com but boy was it fun going through the photos of Larry's planeto see if I could find them! I guess I never realized that Larry's centersectionflop is offset to the port side by about a foot, but take a look:> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Larry%2 ... rtment.jpg .> > He could stash a couple of bottles of iced tea up there in the wing along witha jumbo order of hot wings, some napkins, some jelly rolls for dessert, tie-downs,a quart of Aeroshell 50, and (for you Ford flyers)- some bottles of enginecoolant.> > Now take a look out near the wingtips. There are a pair of inspection coversout near the ends of the wings. Hmmm... what are they for? No pulleys out there,no pitot tubing, nothing adjustable. Aha! The wing internal x-brace cablesare attached out there, and you need to look at those points at annual inspection.Don't forget those!> > Wing tie-downs. Dan's airplane doesn't seem to have them, I know my airplanedoesn't, so we just loop the ropes over the ends of the strut fittings and snugthem down. However, I would hate to have to run tiedown *chains* over my strutends! A good thing to add to your wings if you're still in the planningand building stage! Anybody seen good ways to do wing tiedowns? Write it upfor the BPA Newsletter!> > Back at the tail, the picture gets a bit muddy but there are the elevator cables,touching the leading edges of the horizontal stabilizers just like a goodAir Camper should. My A&P still winces when he looks at mine, but I showed himthe pictures and he agrees that it's normal for the bottom cables to go slackand the top ones to touch the leading edges ;o)> > Back up to the engine, I think Dan said he had to experiment with the coolantlines going to the radiator, but maybe I'm thinking of somebody else. The steamrelief line from the top/front of the head is essential, which is obviouswhen you view the airplane in the 3-point attitude and realize that the top ofthe engine is well above the level of the hose going to the radiator from therear of the engine and that steam (and air) will get trapped at the top if asecond line is not provided. I can't speak from any experience about coolant,thermostats, overflow recovery tanks, or anything having to do with water-cooledengines on Piets but considering that they've been flying for 85 years onhundreds of Air Campers, it can't be a complete mystery...> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 512#449512> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:44:30 -0800
Oscar,Thanks for taking the time to post your observations on Don's beautiful Piet. It takes a lot of time to make the observations AND write the letter. Your observationsare excellent and, I'm sure, helpful to many builders...including me!I had the privilege of seeing Don's beautiful plane and meeting him at Brodheadthis Summer! What a beautiful plane and fine gentleman. I took many picturesof his plane and stole many ideas from him for my build! Other ideas will haveto wait for my next build.Someday I hope to post something in the newsletter about my trials and tribulationsbuilding my Sky Scout. It may trigger a lot of conversations about "alternatemethods" that may have been better. I also admire William Wynn's way ofsometimes pointing out potential problems that may lead to possible undesirableresults. All comments are helpful when done in a constructive way. That is one of the benefitsof this forum!Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Nov 15, 2015, at 9:41 PM, taildrags wrote:> > > I always hate to waste an opportunity to look closely at a photo and pick outinteresting details. Since the list has been so slow lately, I'll pick out afew things that I see on the pic of Dan's beautiful airplane and post them herefor comment.> > First, the prop. It's not at all evident from the magazine photo (all you seeis a black blob where the prop is), but Dan's Ford swings a really nice hand-carvedsemi-scimitar with a dark wood finish. Beautiful piece of work and I'msure that the rest of you who have hand-carved and flown your own prop can agreethat it's a very satisfying feeling to fly behind what used to be a bunchof glued-together boards and have it pull you through the air as pretty as youplease! I would encourage you who have (Gary Boothe has made several, for example)to write about it in the BPA Newsletter. It's something that can be donein a relatively small and warm work space during the winter and the resultis pleasing whether it goes on the plane or on the wall.> > The fuel level indicator on Dan's plane is pretty obvious, and there has beenquite a bit of chatter on this list about different ways of constructing a sightgauge for a centersection wing tank. Dan seems to have a Stearman-style gaugesticking out the bottom of the tank but I don't know the particulars. Hemay have made his after the fashion of Larry "Top Curmudgeon" Williams's andin fact, I seem to remember something about Dan taking over the lofty perch ofTop Curmudgeon himself. I couldn't find a specific photo of Larry's gauge onWestcoastpiet.com but boy was it fun going through the photos of Larry's planeto see if I could find them! I guess I never realized that Larry's centersectionflop is offset to the port side by about a foot, but take a look:> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Larry%2 ... rtment.jpg .> > He could stash a couple of bottles of iced tea up there in the wing along witha jumbo order of hot wings, some napkins, some jelly rolls for dessert, tie-downs,a quart of Aeroshell 50, and (for you Ford flyers)- some bottles of enginecoolant.> > Now take a look out near the wingtips. There are a pair of inspection coversout near the ends of the wings. Hmmm... what are they for? No pulleys out there,no pitot tubing, nothing adjustable. Aha! The wing internal x-brace cablesare attached out there, and you need to look at those points at annual inspection.Don't forget those!> > Wing tie-downs. Dan's airplane doesn't seem to have them, I know my airplanedoesn't, so we just loop the ropes over the ends of the strut fittings and snugthem down. However, I would hate to have to run tiedown *chains* over my strutends! A good thing to add to your wings if you're still in the planningand building stage! Anybody seen good ways to do wing tiedowns? Write it upfor the BPA Newsletter!> > Back at the tail, the picture gets a bit muddy but there are the elevator cables,touching the leading edges of the horizontal stabilizers just like a goodAir Camper should. My A&P still winces when he looks at mine, but I showed himthe pictures and he agrees that it's normal for the bottom cables to go slackand the top ones to touch the leading edges ;o)> > Back up to the engine, I think Dan said he had to experiment with the coolantlines going to the radiator, but maybe I'm thinking of somebody else. The steamrelief line from the top/front of the head is essential, which is obviouswhen you view the airplane in the 3-point attitude and realize that the top ofthe engine is well above the level of the hose going to the radiator from therear of the engine and that steam (and air) will get trapped at the top if asecond line is not provided. I can't speak from any experience about coolant,thermostats, overflow recovery tanks, or anything having to do with water-cooledengines on Piets but considering that they've been flying for 85 years onhundreds of Air Campers, it can't be a complete mystery...> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 512#449512> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:44:30 -0800