Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Hey all,Just returned from Brodhead to find some really interesting comments aboutthis list. Seems like many want it to continue, as do I. However, for itto continue and "regrow" into the active site it once was, I'm feeling likewe need to take matters into our own hands and maybe come up with agame-plan for how to revive it and then keep it healthy.When the negative slant began to rear it's face a few years back, I askedMatt Dralle if the site could moderated so inappropriate posts would beweeded out. He never replied and subsequently I inquired numerous timeswith the same result.Clearly, if we want to maintain the site and regrow it, we'll have to dothings ourselves.To this end, I propose that a small group of guys who have some history withthe airplane and the site and kind of know the community form, come up withsome ideas for keeping the tone productive and appropriate, and thenformulate a plan to get people back here.I'm open to suggestions and would love to hear from guys who would commit tohelping out. You can email me at douwe(at)douwestudios.com or just post it onthe list.Here are some of my thoughts:1. Need to form a small "nucleus group" of people with long-termexperience with the airplane and the Pietenpol community, and who alsopossess a certain amount of "tact" to effectively deal with unpleasantpeople. 2. Come up with a plan to both attract people back and broaden ourexposure3. Come up with a plan for when people get inappropriate or the tonebegins to degenerate 4. Start getting the word out in the Pietenpol community about whatwe're trying to do and try to encourage participation again from those witha history with the airplane.$.02Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 20:32:45 -0500Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rule number 1
Pietenpol-List: Rule number 1
Pietenpol-List: Re: this list
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
Douwe;About all I can offer are my observations about the other long-running list thatI'm on: the KRNet. A couple of things about the KR list make it one of thelargest and most active experimental aircraft lists that I'm aware of:1. The airplane is popular and has been around for a long time, so there are alwaysnew builders coming into the picture without anyone having to promote theairplane. Certainly the Air Camper has this going for it as well. Enduringpopularity means there will always be people interested in building and flyingPiets. They will look on the internet for resources and support, and here weare.2. There are several very knowledgeable builders and pilots on the KR list, theyhave been there for a long time, and they fly a lot and are always tweakingsomething on their airplanes. They keep the threads going, they have the respectof the others on the list, and they provide a lot of historical continuityfrom year to year. Again, this is also the case for Piet builders and pilots,but not so much for list members. There are a few on this list who have beenhere long and steady, but most of the high-hour builders and pilots either justcheck in occasionally, or got off the list, or were never on it. I nevercease to be amazed at how many beautiful examples of Air Campers are out there,that I've never heard about or even seen pictures of!3. There are several innovators on the KR list, and they are not just tinkerers...they keep refining, improving, flight testing. I know that in the researchI did for the "all Piet" edition of Contact! Magazine, I was astounded to learnabout all the nifty and creative things that are going on with Piets, thatI had no idea were going on. This is a very much untapped area, but it can alsoget dicey. Innovators among a group of devotees of a 1930s design-? Sometimesthat's like getting a lighted match near a can of gasoline!4. The KRNet has a moderator and he reads every single post to the list, withoutfail, and without a lot of delay. He is very proactive about clearing up misunderstandingsor silencing rude people, fight-starters, and trolls immediately.When there is genuine controversy, he lets it unroll just enough so everyonelearns and grows, but when it gets personal or counter-productive he removesposting privileges from the offender to let them cool off but where they cancontinue to receive posts and follow the thread so they don't go off and starta back-fire somewhere. If the aggression and waste of time continue beyonda reasonable adjustment period, they get bounced from the list. They can reapplyfor admission later, and some have come back after being bounced and thenlearning a lesson. I don't know how to create a moderator like this out of thinair. You either have one or you don't, and the KRNet admin holds himselfout as a benevolent dictator. He has the power, but he doesn't wield it ruthlessly.Everybody wants the list to have a moderator when somebody starts usingfoul language or issuing mistaken information, but nobody wants to start thefight and many people take the "it's a free country" stance and don't want moderationat all. This list has done pretty well by self-moderating, most Pietersbeing a reasonable and self-controlled bunch of folks, but every now and thensome of us cringe and wish the voice of reason would sound off and stop somethingthat shouldn't be happening.Not sure what else to offer, because there is no formula for success for an emaillist. I don't think this one will go away unless someone shuts it down orruns everyone off by brute force, but I also don't know how to promote it or increaseits attraction other than continuing to put interesting ideas and discussionson it, post progress photos that keep other builders turned on, and keepflying the airplanes. Winning beauty contests at OSH is fine, but taking peopleup for fun flights in a fun airplane, inexpensively, has an appeal thatmoney cannot buy and advertising cannot attract.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Douwe;About all I can offer are my observations about the other long-running list thatI'm on: the KRNet. A couple of things about the KR list make it one of thelargest and most active experimental aircraft lists that I'm aware of:1. The airplane is popular and has been around for a long time, so there are alwaysnew builders coming into the picture without anyone having to promote theairplane. Certainly the Air Camper has this going for it as well. Enduringpopularity means there will always be people interested in building and flyingPiets. They will look on the internet for resources and support, and here weare.2. There are several very knowledgeable builders and pilots on the KR list, theyhave been there for a long time, and they fly a lot and are always tweakingsomething on their airplanes. They keep the threads going, they have the respectof the others on the list, and they provide a lot of historical continuityfrom year to year. Again, this is also the case for Piet builders and pilots,but not so much for list members. There are a few on this list who have beenhere long and steady, but most of the high-hour builders and pilots either justcheck in occasionally, or got off the list, or were never on it. I nevercease to be amazed at how many beautiful examples of Air Campers are out there,that I've never heard about or even seen pictures of!3. There are several innovators on the KR list, and they are not just tinkerers...they keep refining, improving, flight testing. I know that in the researchI did for the "all Piet" edition of Contact! Magazine, I was astounded to learnabout all the nifty and creative things that are going on with Piets, thatI had no idea were going on. This is a very much untapped area, but it can alsoget dicey. Innovators among a group of devotees of a 1930s design-? Sometimesthat's like getting a lighted match near a can of gasoline!4. The KRNet has a moderator and he reads every single post to the list, withoutfail, and without a lot of delay. He is very proactive about clearing up misunderstandingsor silencing rude people, fight-starters, and trolls immediately.When there is genuine controversy, he lets it unroll just enough so everyonelearns and grows, but when it gets personal or counter-productive he removesposting privileges from the offender to let them cool off but where they cancontinue to receive posts and follow the thread so they don't go off and starta back-fire somewhere. If the aggression and waste of time continue beyonda reasonable adjustment period, they get bounced from the list. They can reapplyfor admission later, and some have come back after being bounced and thenlearning a lesson. I don't know how to create a moderator like this out of thinair. You either have one or you don't, and the KRNet admin holds himselfout as a benevolent dictator. He has the power, but he doesn't wield it ruthlessly.Everybody wants the list to have a moderator when somebody starts usingfoul language or issuing mistaken information, but nobody wants to start thefight and many people take the "it's a free country" stance and don't want moderationat all. This list has done pretty well by self-moderating, most Pietersbeing a reasonable and self-controlled bunch of folks, but every now and thensome of us cringe and wish the voice of reason would sound off and stop somethingthat shouldn't be happening.Not sure what else to offer, because there is no formula for success for an emaillist. I don't think this one will go away unless someone shuts it down orruns everyone off by brute force, but I also don't know how to promote it or increaseits attraction other than continuing to put interesting ideas and discussionson it, post progress photos that keep other builders turned on, and keepflying the airplanes. Winning beauty contests at OSH is fine, but taking peopleup for fun flights in a fun airplane, inexpensively, has an appeal thatmoney cannot buy and advertising cannot attract.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________