Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Craig R. Lawler"
>Ted,>>Regarding your Pietenpol question, I generally approach at 60 to 65>mph but can use speeds lower than that, say 55, and never lack elevator>authority. In fact, all four different Piets I have flown shared this>characteristic: good control effectiveness at amazingly low airspeeds.>They are all of basic Pietenpol design. Yours, I understand, is a Grega>version and I have never flown any of those in order to make a judge->ment. One thing I have found, however, is that overall efficiency and>control effectiveness are improved by sealing ALL control surface gaps>(not just the ailerons, which I consider essential for this design) with>fabric or some kind of tape. Try some duct tape over the upper surfaces>of the elevator/ tailplane gap and see if it does anything for you.>Let me know how you make out.>>Graham>>PS Personally, I don't like to slow these draggy old birds too much on>either climb-out or approach because their airspeed will decay so >quickly if one loses power in the first case or makes a mistake in the>second (when you are short of altitude, extra airspeed is money in>the bank, so to speak). Surplus airspeed is easily dissipated when you>don't need it anymore...quite different from flying cleaner, more modern>types in which surplus airspeed on approach can spoil your whole day.>If you think you are floating for too long, consider that you may not>have covered much distance in the process; my a/c, with a stalling speed>of 35 to 40 mph, can hang there for what seems a long time and does >not travel very far before settling. At sea level, as compared to our>elevation, mine would probably hang there in ground effect forever,>but really wouldn't be going anywhere.>>Graham,I have been practicing 3 point landings and I would have to describe them asa "plop". No big bounce but definitely can tell when you hit the ground. Ican land a Cessna 172 or 182 and you can't tell when we touch down. Can a 3point landing be made like that in a Piet? If so, I will keep practicing.The only landing I can make like that in the Piet is a power on landing onthe mains.The gap on the alierons is sealed with cloth that goes from the front bottomto the back top of the gap. Is that enough or are you suggesting a smoothjoint along the top? To do a smooth joint it would seem that it could onlybe smooth when the alieron or elevator was in a down position. Whenneuteral there would be excess cloth and that would creat a hump. Am Iunderstanding it correctly?Happy holidays,Ted Brousseau/APFnfn00979(at)gator.naples.netSunny SW Florida________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: grhans(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Ted,I am flying a Piet off an 800ft field with trees at the west end. IfI just clear the trees with the AS at 30mph(must not be correst) and step on the right rudder pedal to the stop. And lower the right wing it seems to settle in real nice as long as I keep the slip to the very last second. If I get too slow the right wing will gently start to drop, a little power picks it right up. I have a rough time on a normal runway. Power landings on pavement are OK.Craig________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Ted,Your experiences doing 3-point landings on paved runways with a light,slow airplane like a Pietenpol are about the same as my own. I find that,in order to touch down with the wing completely stalled I have to "dropit on", thus preventing a skip or a bounce if the tires touch while thewing is still lifting. Pavement, I find, is very unforgiving with my air-plane and I have to crank up my attention levels a whole lot in order toavoid embarrassment. The Pietenpol is much better suited to grass run-ways; perhaps that is why it has been called "the pasture pilot's prideand joy"!Essentially, the faster and heavier the airplane is, the easier it be-comes to land smoothly on pavement. With a very light wing loading andslow landing speed, even hot air rising from the runway surface can makethe landing operation touchy. Perhaps this is why you find a Cessna 182easier to land smoothly. Personally, I prefer to touch down on themainwheels (wheel landing technique) on paved runways which are general-ly plenty long for a Pietenpol...and thus avoid making a fool of myselfby trying to do a "grease-on" 3-pointer. Being heavier and faster, myLuscombe 8E is much easier to 3-point on pavement (or grass, for thatmatter). But I find wheel landings in the Luscombe much more difficultto accomplish than with the Pietenpol, likely due to the main landinggear positioning and other design features. Strange. Summing up, it sounds as if you really don't have a problem and I'm notabout to challenge you in a 3-point landing contest! Cheers,Graham ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Craig R. Lawler"
>Ted,>>Essentially, the faster and heavier the airplane is, the easier it be->comes to land smoothly on pavement. With a very light wing loading and>slow landing speed, even hot air rising from the runway surface can make>the landing operation touchy. Perhaps this is why you find a Cessna 182>easier to land smoothly. Personally, I prefer to touch down on the>mainwheels (wheel landing technique) on paved runways which are general->ly plenty long for a Pietenpol...and thus avoid making a fool of myself>by trying to do a "grease-on" 3-pointer. Graham, Sounds like we think alike on this one. At first, I made wheellandings when I had passengers because I could guarantee a smoothertouchdown. I also use a wheel landing when it is windy or in crosswindsituations. How much power and speed do you carry on a wheel landing? Enough tokeep the tail high or do you just drag it in on the mains with the tailwheel barely off the ground? A second question about a topic we discuss during our hanger flying.When you have a severe crosswind do you stay on the downwind side of therunway so that, if you start to weathervane as you slow to drop the tail,you can then square it into the wind with the width of the runway to be usedto bring it to a stop?Happy New Year, Ted Brousseau/APFnfn00979(at)gator.naples.netSunny SW Florida________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Craig R. Lawler"
To Ted,Regarding your remarks on wheel landings, we are definitely on the samewavelength.I carry about 65 mph and a "touch of power" on approach to a wheellanding. I try to maintain a constant attitude (in pitch, that is)and airspeed. I adjust the power slightly to correct for under orovershooting during the entire approach phase, and try to do a rathergradual flare at the end. (I find the Piet to be very sensitive inpitch and flaring too abruptly makes the hold-off phase much moredifficult; smoothness is the key to success). Then I try (alwaystrying, but not always successful) to maintain a level attitudeallowing the a/c to settle to the runway on the mains by using rathersmall power adjustments. It isn't necessary to "pin it down" by shovingthe stick forward on contact IF the touchdown is gentle; the dragfrom rolling friction, etc. tends to raise the tail and reduce thelift of the wing automatically. Now this works well most of the time in smooth air. In gusty con-ditions all bets are off and the ground becomes a moving target,and one will definitely have to "pin it on".Regarding the crosswind technique you described, I remember my ins-tructor drilling it into me many years ago...and it has saved my hide and reputation many times since. I hope others can benefitfrom our exchange and I sure wish I had access to something likeE-mail years ago instead of having to learn some things the hardway. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________