Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Bill R"
So if everyone suggest using Equal length struts along with the Riblett 612 airfoilthen that would put the incidence at 2.1deg. Is that what everyone is endingup with?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
ok, lets go down this road a little further.I am still trying to determine if the aluminum lift struts from Carlson A/C areadequate for a Pietenpol. I know there are Piets out there flying with thesestruts,Dan Helspers being one of them. (thanks Dan for your previous responseand detailed photos). But I am still looking at the numbers and have come upwith a very unscientific conclusion. If I built in a big fudge factor by usinga gross weight of 1320 lbs. and stressed the airframe to 6 G's. that comes outto 7920 lbs. The small lift struts from Carlson has a shear load capacity of11,600 lbs. If the load is then divided by 4 (4 struts), it would appear thatthese aluminum struts are easily capable of of handling the job.But alas, this is just to simple,I have to be missing something.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
You are. Cabanes share that load. The picture is even better than youcompute.Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Bill R"
First off you can't just divide by four. The front strut takesthe larger part of the load and the rear less of it. I'm notsure what the ratio is on the Piet airfoil though. Mostlikely somewhere around a third more.Second, the load on the wing is vertical but the tensile stresson the strut is not. The length of the strut is in theneighbourhood of double the vertical component. Soyour strut sees double the value of the lift supportedby that strut. 600lb lifted puts 1200lb tension on the strut.third, the cabanes carry a portion of the load but not a lot.I figured all this stuff out some time ago and put it insome quite intelligent location. Now that my intelligencehas eroded I can't find it!!ClifWhen I was younger, I could remember anything,whether it happened or not. Mark Twain----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "curtdm(at)gmail.com"
Piet group,Just a few thoughts after a few sleepless nights over decisions I'm making during the early stages of overhauling a spare A-65 that I purchased with no-logsin Michigan last month.Let me begin by saying that I'm not an engine authority of any kind but I did overhaul my own A-65 18 years ago when building my Piet. (That engine didn't have logseither and was sitting in a basement for the 20 years prior to me obtaining it but that is superfluous information.)This is just my story to share with you---I'm not asking for your approval, disapproval, applause, or lectures but just sharing.Back in the early 90's when I overhauled my 1st A-65 Continental I got advice from two very close friends who were IA's and A&P's who specifically had been overhaulingsmall Continental engines since the end of WWII. I sent out the components of my engine to the engine overhaul shops that these guys knew well and that they hadheld in high regard. I didn't skimp on sending these parts out for machining, inspection, and reconditioning. I overhauled my A-65 early on in my build so I had the moneyand wasn't pinching pennies yet and did that intentionally since I knew that engine would be used every summer for many years to come giving rides and going on trips toWisconsin.Whatever parts came back rejected/red tagged I threw in the metal dumpsters at work and replaced with new parts from Fresno Air Parts.By God's grace and doing my homework I was able to fly that old engine for 16 years giving lots of rides and having lots of fun flying over lots of farmland and flying to lotsof little and big fly-in's around the Midwest and not once did that faithful engine ever miss a beat. (okay.....minus the time it quit cold when I taxied out with the fuel valvein the off position but if you haven't done that then you're my hero.) At the risk of getting a lecture (or not) I'll also add that the mags and carb were rebuilt by these two seasonedIA's for me so I can't take any credit for the reliability that those two quality jobs alone provided in good engine running over the years but certainly a 1st class engine rebuild isn'tworth a dime if the mags or carb screws up on your first few flights because they were not properly overhauled.I digress.Some 18 years later I'm rebuilding this little gem and after taking all of my measurements I realize that I can (if I wanted to) get away with just having all of the parts magnafluxedand if they pass, put the thing back together again and fly it but something inside won't let me do that. Why? Well okay---all the main bearings just barely measure up to the Standarddiameter book values after polishing but not any more than that. That one up front polished out nicely but I can still see fine lines in the finish. It's only a homebuilt---nothing requires meto send this crankshaft out for rework. I go home thinking of how much money I'll save by just putting these parts back together again with new seals, bearing sets, and gaskets.A little tossing and turning later I thing about it more. I look over my numbers for my inside diameters where the crankshaft and the camshaft will ride for the next what, 5, 10, 15, 20 years?Nice.....they are standard too but only if I wipe all the gasket sealer from the engine halves and don't put any string in there. Hmmm......well almost standard. They aren't perfect but heck....thisis just a homebuilt, you know?Okay....those cylinders will just clean up well and after lapping in those valve and honing them out I can use them just like I got them once I get them magnafluxed and Zyglo tested and they passright? Yes sir....I'm going to save a lot of money on this 'just on the edge' overhaul. This could be a $400 or less major overhaul! My gosh.....this is too good to be true! Wow...did I luck outwith this engine.Hmmmm........2am, bathroom break. Can't do it. Nope. Can't do it. "that is going to be a LOT of money Mike!!!" Yep.....I don't like it much either. "you have to crate and box all thoseheavy parts up and ship them to Texas---that is a pain! Don't waste your time doing that......after all, this is only a homebuilt. You don't have to have the parts all yellow tag pretty! What are youthinking? These are reliable little engines......even guys who put them together half-fast usually get a good little running engine that doesn't much know the difference right away or for the firstyear or so, so why fuss over all this?Tuesday comes and I call Aircraft Engine & Accessory in Dallas.....the place who reconditioned many of my major parts back in 1994 when I majored the first engine. "Hello this is Greg speaking.""wow.....Greg? Greg, the same Greg who I spoke with over the phone a few times back in the mid 90's who helped process my original A-65 overhaul there in Dallas.....that Greg? "yes sir.....I'vebeen here nearly 30 years now." I immediately felt a sense of calm and peace run thru my bones talking with Greg and explaining to him what I had to ship down to him. Last time they took about10 days to turn my parts around and they came back like crown jewels out of airplane engine wonderland and they purred silky smooth for 16 straight seasons of summer fun flying. "yes sir Greg,you can expect my parts down by you sometime late next week via FedEx ground." "okay Mike, we'll keep an eye out for them.""by the way Greg.....do you have anyone you recommend for doing small Continental crankcase half overhauls?? Divco??" "well yes sir.....yes sir I do....we like to use Crankcase Services, Inc......here'stheir number, ask for Kevin." "Excellent----thank you so much. I'll give Kevin a call.""say Greg, do you have anyone you'd recommend to do cylinder reconditioning??" "yes sir....we like to use...." Thanks Greg........Zzzzzzzz.........zzzzzzzzzz.............zzzzzzzzzz.Finally I'm going to sleep good again tonight.Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tossing and turning

Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Well...could you pass along those numbers for Greg, Kevin, etc...Thanks Mike!--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tossing and turning

Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Great post Mike,I haven't slept well this week too. My problem is only slightly different. Ihave a friend who has offered me his 4 place 170 MPH home built airplane for avery reasonable price. Do I want it? YES. Do I need it? No. Hmm, That wouldmean two airplanes. One slow and one to go places in. Guess I'll try to sleepon it. Did I say it was a great buy? Oh yes, I did. Now what do I do? I can't sleep either,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 11:40:46 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
Very cool, Jim! Congratulations!!Brodhead '15 or Bust!________________________________________Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhDAssociate Professor of OphthalmologyEmory University School of Medicine________________________________________

Original Posted By: Jim Boyer

Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Very nice Jim! Is that latex? Nice curve!!!! Scott K. Burlington ON Sent from my iPhone> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:51 PM, "Jim Markle" wrote:> > Wanted to share some recent progress on "The People's Piet". Covering and paintingis FUN!!!> > One picture of before paint and one of after paint....right side up and bottomwith access panel uncovered facing the camera. One is of the blue tape effortat finding the curve I wanted. Replaced with holding a thin strip of 1/16"ply around that same general curve and marking it with a pencil. Worked on THATlayout for the last 10+ years and like it a lot.> > Should have the fuse painted and back on the gear by the end of the month (October)then on to the wings! A bit of varnish here and there and they'll be readyfor covering.> > This is an incredibly fun part of the process!> > Jim in Pryor> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 12:18:48 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

Original Posted By:>> Scott Knowlton
Great looking finish. Did you spray? Sent from my iPhone> On Oct 9, 2014, at 1:21 PM, "Jim Markle" wrote:> > > Thank you Scott. It is latex...Sherwin Williams best!> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress in Pryor

Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
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Original Posted By:>>> Scott Knowlton
...or Kelly Moore.Sent from my iPhone> On Oct 9, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Scott Knowlton wrote:> > > Great looking finish. Did you spray? > Sent from my iPhone> >> On Oct 9, 2014, at 1:21 PM, "Jim Markle" wrote:>> >> >> Thank you Scott. It is latex...Sherwin Williams best!>> >> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Thanks everyone for the compliments!I'm using a foam brush and doing multiple cross coats. Around the curve I useda bristle angled brush but the rest is foam. Painting on 95+ degree days waschallenging but seems to be working out ok now that the temp has dropped.Maybe you can tell from the attached that it leaves a bit of a brush line but Ilike the look.I do have an HVLP setup and would prefer using it but the time involved is an issue.With a foam brush I can go to the shop, add a cross coat and throw thebrush away. No real clean up if I want. I've found that I can make a LOT ofprogress if it's easy to get to. Of course, I've gone out for a "quick" 15 minutesof painting and came inside to a dark house at midnight. But what fun!Wait, what? If I spray it won't "fall out of the sky"????Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/phot ... ______Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 15:12:21 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tossing and turning

Original Posted By: "dfwplt"
Jim,That looks great! I should start covering in November, right after finishing therigging. I am looking forward to it! Thanks for encouragement!Will you be Flying this Spring/Summer?Thanks,Ray KrauseBuilding SkyScoutSent from my iPad> On Oct 9, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Jim Markle wrote:> > Wanted to share some recent progress on "The People's Piet". Covering and paintingis FUN!!!> > One picture of before paint and one of after paint....right side up and bottomwith access panel uncovered facing the camera. One is of the blue tape effortat finding the curve I wanted. Replaced with holding a thin strip of 1/16"ply around that same general curve and marking it with a pencil. Worked on THATlayout for the last 10+ years and like it a lot.> > Should have the fuse painted and back on the gear by the end of the month (October)then on to the wings! A bit of varnish here and there and they'll be readyfor covering.> > This is an incredibly fun part of the process!> > Jim in Pryor> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Progress in Pryor

Original Posted By: "dgaldrich"
Ray, flying in 2015 is the plan! The way things are going right now it's entirelydoable.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts 2

Original Posted By: jim hyde
ClifI think it was Jack Phillips that said you divide by the cosine of the angle betweenthe struts and the spar to get the tensile load on the strut. Example:30 degree angle (cos = .5); lift required = 5,000 lbs. Total tensile load 5,000/.5= 10,000 lbs.To the original question, if you assume the rear struts and the cabanes take NONEof the load, that leaves about 4,000 lbs for each of the load bearing struts.With an angle of 30 degrees between the struts and spar, the tensile loadis 8,000 +/-. In theory, the struts should be good for 9 G's in tension. Now compression is another subject...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 22:32:25 -0700