Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise

[matronics]

Original Posted By: "Boatright, Jeffrey"
About the only way I can imagine my Piet exceeding VNE at cruise is with aJATO pack strapped between the wheels!In all seriousness, I think aerodynamic mods are fine if they don't addweight and you find it an enjoyable pursuit. After all, fun is why we buildthese things. However, don't expect too much from them and I've oftenwondered if the extra effort and time added building, is worth an extra 3kts cruising speed. I mean, when I'm chugging around for my average 30minute summer flight, I couldn't care less how fast I'm going. The ONLYtime I ever wish I had a few extra kts of speed is going to Brodhead, buteven then it would only shave off ten-fifteen minutes or so.That being said..I did spend an extra month fairing the axle and covering the wire wheels. Ihave NO idea how much it helped having not flown without those mods. Thebiggest thing I could do to improve my cruise speed would be to fair orreshape my wood struts which have a poor aerodynamic shape, but again, I'veweighed the effort against the benefit and decided I'd rather spend the timeflying her. I also experimented with some teardrop shaped clear plastictubing to fair the round cables. I did my landing gear cables, then decidedagainst doing the flying wires because it would destroy the vintage look.But I do think round wires make a ton of drag which could be at least halvedby sleeving them.I think biggest drag inducers that could actually be helped are: struts,wheels, strut connections, axle, windscreens, foot pegs, cables.$.02Douwe________________________________________________________________________________

[matronics]

Original Posted By: "Jack Philips"
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________________________________________________________________________________

[matronics]

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Yet another email from Jeff Boatright with no content. Am I the only one who gets these?Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia(where it was a balmy 8=C2=B0 this morning)

[matronics]

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Douwe,Of everything listed below, probably the biggest contributor to total dragon a Pietenpol is the array of cables hanging out in the breeze. A roundcable being pushed through the air has a rather large drag coefficient.Streamlined flying wires for the inter-lift strut wires, the bracing wireson the tail, the roll wires between the cabanes and the bracing wires on theundercarriage (if using a straight axle) would help a good deal, but wouldalso increase the cost of building a Pietenpol by about 50%. And nothingcan be done about the elevator cables, rudder cables, tailwheel steeringcables (if so equipped) and aileron cables that all hang out in the breeze.If you want something fast, build an RV or a Sonex. If you want low 'n'slow, build a Pietenpol.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia

[matronics]

Original Posted By: "Andre B. Charvet"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise

[matronics]

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I think Jeff is using invisible ink. I=99m have been getting blank ones from him for a while now. Thought I was the only one.BarryNX973BP

[matronics]

Original Posted By: "Mike McGowan"
I see Jeff's just fine. But I am on a PC right now. Wonder if that matters?--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

[matronics]

Original Posted By: Barry Davis
Does covering the spokes on wire wheels make any difference in directional control or stability?Mike McGowan

[matronics]

Original Posted By: "Jack Philips"
Several people apparently get blank posts from me. I think this happens sometimeswhen I reply directly to a matronics post by email. I am sending this messageinstead by going to the matronics webpage a replying via the form.My reply isn't earth-shattering. It was:Switching from canvas-covered bungees to springs definitely changed how my Pietbehaves when I throttle back for descent in the pattern. With the bungees, thenose really dropped when I pulled the throttle to idle. This effect is muchless pronounced after we switched to springs.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

[matronics]

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
So am I.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----

[matronics]

Original Posted By:> Barry Davis
To those with "covered wheels", how are they covered? With fabric or aluminum discs? If fabric, does it just go around the bead of the rim and cement it in place? What happens when you have to repair a tire, just recover. Bassle has aluminum discs for about $300, covering would be a lot cheaper!Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Feb 19, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Mike McGowan wrote:> > Does covering the spokes on wire wheels make any difference in directional control or stability?> > Mike McGowan>

[matronics]

Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise

[matronics]

Original Posted By: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
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: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing gear

[matronics]

Original Posted By:>>> Douwe Blumberg
Hi Jeffrey Do you have any particulars on the springs you used? Source would be helpful too. Thanks, Glen Aerial in progress (Fuse becomes a box this week end!)Sent from my iPhone> On Feb 19, 2015, at 7:12 PM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" wrote:> > Had bungees. Bungees didn't pass inspection one year. Converted to springs (they were free to me). No maintenance. No difference in landing performance that I can tell. > > =C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO> Professor of Ophthalmology> Emory University School of Medicine> Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem> > On Feb 19, 2015, at 8:59 PM, "Charles Burkholder" wrote:> >> Regarding bungee or spring landing gear. I am half done my split axle landing gear but not at quite the shock absorbers. I am leaning towards using steel spring due to the low maintenance "build, fly and forget" it offers. I was talking to a very experienced tailwheel pilot and instructor (not a homebuilder) about it and he recommended bungees. >> Could I have any input on the pro's and con's of each? How many of you builders have made the switch after your piet was built and why? If anything it might add 1 knot to the cruise speed! >>> On 2/19/2015 9:31 AM, Boatright, Jeffrey wrote:>>> Switching from canvas-covered bungees to springs definitely changed how my Piet behaves when I throttle back for descent in the pattern. With the bungees, the nose really dropped when I pulled the throttle to idle. This effect is much less pronounced after we switched to springs.>>> >>> -- >>> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO>>> Professor of Ophthalmology>>> Emory University School of Medicine>>>

[matronics]

Original Posted By: Jim Markle
________________________________________________________________________________

[matronics]

Original Posted By: "Boatright, Jeffrey"
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > " >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise>> About the only way I can imagine my Piet exceeding VNE at cruise> is with a JATO pack strapped between the wheels!>> In all seriousness, I think aerodynamic mods are fine if they> dont add weight and you find it an enjoyable pursuit. After all,> fun is why we build these things. However, dont expect too much> from them and Ive often wondered if the extra effort and time> added building, is worth an extra 3 kts cruising speed. I mean,> when Im chugging around for my average 30 minute summer flight, I> couldnt care less how fast Im going. The ONLY time I ever wish> I had a few extra kts of speed is going to Brodhead, but even then> it would only shave off ten-fifteen minutes or so.>> That being said.>> I did spend an extra month fairing the axle and covering the wire> wheels. I have NO idea how much it helped having not flown> without those mods. The biggest thing I could do to improve my> cruise speed would be to fair or reshape my wood struts which have> a poor aerodynamic shape, but again, Ive weighed the effort> against the benefit and decided Id rather spend the time flying> her. I also experimented with some teardrop shaped clear plastic> tubing to fair the round cables. I did my landing gear cables,> then decided against doing the flying wires because it would> destroy the vintage look. But I do think round wires make a ton> of drag which could be at least halved by sleeving them.>> I think biggest drag inducers that could actually be helped are:> struts, wheels, strut connections, axle, windscreens, foot pegs,> cables.>> $.02>> Douwe>> *>>> *>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------>> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly> prohibited.>> If you have received this message in error, please contact> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the> original message (including attachments).>> No virus found in this message.> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> ky"Z+M4Gq(wrzKDKj',.+- > 5h,z^.+-Tn+bp+ry'C { ,x(ZP> -Zvkkj+ykym-&j',r5hRm-&j',r5hR08IaT1$+y{^j)ZnWayg+k&j',r+k&j',rh*'gJ+^N*.~zw,hjY^.+-kym-&j',rr&*'i0fr((nb{nrf -- Charles BurkholderVisit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/____ ... __________

[matronics]

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
>>> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise>>> >>> About the only way I can imagine my Piet exceeding VNE at cruise is with a JATO pack strapped between the wheels!>>> >>> In all seriousness, I think aerodynamic mods are fine if they don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t add weight and you find it an enjoyable pursuit. After all, fun is why we build these things. However, don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t expect too much from them and I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve often wondered if the extra effort and time added building, is worth an extra 3 kts cruising speed. I mean, when I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m chugging around for my average 30 minute summer flight, I couldn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t care less how fast I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m going. The ONLY time I ever wish I had a few extra kts of speed is going to Brodhead, but even then it would only shave off ten-fifteen minutes or so.>>> >>> That being said=C3=A2=82=AC=C2.>>> >>> I did spend an extra month fairing the axle and covering the wire wheels. I have NO idea how much it helped having not flown without those mods. The biggest thing I could do to improve my cruise speed would be to fair or reshape my wood struts which have a poor aerodynamic shape, but again, I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve weighed the effort against the benefit and decided I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2d rather spend the time flying her. I also experimented with some teardrop shaped clear plastic tubing to fair the round cables. I did my landing gear cables, then decided against doing the flying wires because it would destroy the vintage look. But I do think round wires make a ton of drag which could be at least halved by sleeving them.>>> >>> I think biggest drag inducers that could actually be helped are: struts, wheels, strut connections, axle, windscreens, foot pegs, cables.>>> >>> $.02>>> >>> Douwe>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of>>> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged>>> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution>>> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly>>> prohibited.>>> >>> If you have received this message in error, please contact>>> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the>>> original message (including attachments).>>> No virus found in this message.>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com>>> 02/19/15>>> >>> 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