Original Posted By: "FritzW"
Bill,The photo you posted is from a fly in that I went to with Frank Pavliga last montgh.You can see the tail of mine in the picture also. I told Frank at thatfly in that from now on I am no longer parking beside him... because when I doHIS airplane gets all the attention! It is absolutely beautiful. The Lambertputs out a very healthy 90 hp. I can't remember but the prop is huge. Thelength is somewhere in the 80+ inches range. It is a fantastic combination.Frank has been generous enough to let me fly it and it is a huge kick in thepants. Before you get the throttle all the way in it is skipping and snortingacross the ground. The climb and cruise is terrific. Its makes for a greatPiet and the coolness factor is over the top. You just have to be ready to workon them and keep them up... and have someone close by that is a true expert.Recently, on a trip that we were both flying in, we had to pull a jug and replace/resurfacea head gasket overnight. So it comes at a price...Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: "gjkaal"
Hi All, Anyone know off the top of their head how much the Model A and a Model T conversionsweigh?While I'm sitting around waiting for the mailman to bring my Air Camper and SkyScout plans, I'm trying to get an idea of potential CG issues with a Lambert....I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head: a VERYlight (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to be the theun-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it to myself [Wink]Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a poundor two off a Pietenpol.--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Hi All, Anyone know off the top of their head how much the Model A and a Model T conversionsweigh?While I'm sitting around waiting for the mailman to bring my Air Camper and SkyScout plans, I'm trying to get an idea of potential CG issues with a Lambert....I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head: a VERYlight (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to be the theun-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it to myself [Wink]Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a poundor two off a Pietenpol.--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
Hi,Just off the top of my head, a Model A will be around 235 pound or 110kg. A VWconversion is very light in comparison. If i can believe greatplains, it willbe around 135pounds with a reduction drive, or 60kg. Whatever the case, this hasan impact on your W&B, with you ending up carrying dead weight (batteries)or a very long nose. But then an engine choice is never easy, especially withthe Pietenpol.GJRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hi,Just off the top of my head, a Model A will be around 235 pound or 110kg. A VWconversion is very light in comparison. If i can believe greatplains, it willbe around 135pounds with a reduction drive, or 60kg. Whatever the case, this hasan impact on your W&B, with you ending up carrying dead weight (batteries)or a very long nose. But then an engine choice is never easy, especially withthe Pietenpol.GJRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
According to the 1932 flying and glider mag the A is 244 lb. I'm assuming dry wtSo you need to add water , plumbing and radiator to that. Would 16 lb be a reasonableestimate?ClifOld age and treachery will beat youth and enthusiasmevery time. Someone>> Hi,>> Just off the top of my head, a Model A will be around 235 pound or 110kg. > >> GJ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 07:09:14 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
According to the 1932 flying and glider mag the A is 244 lb. I'm assuming dry wtSo you need to add water , plumbing and radiator to that. Would 16 lb be a reasonableestimate?ClifOld age and treachery will beat youth and enthusiasmevery time. Someone>> Hi,>> Just off the top of my head, a Model A will be around 235 pound or 110kg. > >> GJ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 07:09:14 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: John Cox
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
RE: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
That is blasphemy. It is also sort of like teaching a pig to sing =93 it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.Why put a $20,000 engine on a $5,000 plane, that will still only go 75 mph without feeling like it=99s about to come apart?Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia
That is blasphemy. It is also sort of like teaching a pig to sing =93 it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.Why put a $20,000 engine on a $5,000 plane, that will still only go 75 mph without feeling like it=99s about to come apart?Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: "FritzW"
On 09/02/2015 11:13 PM, FritzW wrote:> ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head: a VERYlight (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to be thethe un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it to myself[Wink] Since you _didn't_ keep it to yourself, here's a reference to the UltraPiet:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RagWing_RW1_Ultra-PietOf course, if you go this route, we won't help you since it's not aPietenpol Air Camper, nor is it a GN-1 Aircamper.> > Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a poundor two off a Pietenpol.Before you even start, stop second guessing everything. Build to theplans and get started. Too many people on this list hem and haw andsecond guess this or that and develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboardfor months on end and they have no product to show for it.blah blah blah.Just start building. Worry about the engine in a couple years.-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
On 09/02/2015 11:13 PM, FritzW wrote:> ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head: a VERYlight (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to be thethe un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it to myself[Wink] Since you _didn't_ keep it to yourself, here's a reference to the UltraPiet:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RagWing_RW1_Ultra-PietOf course, if you go this route, we won't help you since it's not aPietenpol Air Camper, nor is it a GN-1 Aircamper.> > Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a poundor two off a Pietenpol.Before you even start, stop second guessing everything. Build to theplans and get started. Too many people on this list hem and haw andsecond guess this or that and develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboardfor months on end and they have no product to show for it.blah blah blah.Just start building. Worry about the engine in a couple years.-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
...gentleman, I bid you farewell[/quote]...develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboardfor months on end and they have no product to show for it.blah blah blah.-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com[/quote]--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 10:16:15 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
...gentleman, I bid you farewell[/quote]...develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboardfor months on end and they have no product to show for it.blah blah blah.-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com[/quote]--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 10:16:15 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
I've been reminded about thick skins and bad apples and how valuable this forumis as a resource for Pietenpol information. ...dan yocum,The only question I asked was how much Ford motors weigh so I could start thinkingabout CG issues if I use a Lambert (a time honored Pietenpol engine option).The only keyboard diarrhea I see is coming from you....what a buzz-kill--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I've been reminded about thick skins and bad apples and how valuable this forumis as a resource for Pietenpol information. ...dan yocum,The only question I asked was how much Ford motors weigh so I could start thinkingabout CG issues if I use a Lambert (a time honored Pietenpol engine option).The only keyboard diarrhea I see is coming from you....what a buzz-kill--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weightsA good place to read about engines is at this link on the fly baby site.http://www.bowersflybaby.com/index.html#enginesThere is also a link to a lot of info on small continentals.Blue Skies,Steve D.On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:44 PM, FritzW wrote:>> I've been reminded about thick skins and bad apples and how valuable this> forum is as a resource for Pietenpol information.>> ...dan yocum,> The only question I asked was how much Ford motors weigh so I could start> thinking about CG issues if I use a Lambert (a time honored Pietenpol> engine option). The only keyboard diarrhea I see is coming from you.>> ...what a buzz-kill>> --------> I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ======>>-- Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weightsA good place to read about engines is at this link on the fly baby site.http://www.bowersflybaby.com/index.html#enginesThere is also a link to a lot of info on small continentals.Blue Skies,Steve D.On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:44 PM, FritzW wrote:>> I've been reminded about thick skins and bad apples and how valuable this> forum is as a resource for Pietenpol information.>> ...dan yocum,> The only question I asked was how much Ford motors weigh so I could start> thinking about CG issues if I use a Lambert (a time honored Pietenpol> engine option). The only keyboard diarrhea I see is coming from you.>> ...what a buzz-kill>> --------> I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ======>>-- Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Fritz,I got the chance to fly the Model T powered Scout the Bernie built. Chris Essgardowned it back then and he had perform the rebuild of it. When Chris rebuiltit he replaced a lot of steel engine parts with aluminum parts. This madefor a tail heavy plane. I flew it that way. It didn't fly very well being sotail heavy and only 20 HP. That said. I also got to flt the A powered scoutthat Bernie built. The CG was correct and had more than twice the HP. Thatairplane was an absolute ball to fly. It was like a little sports car. So becareful when trying to make it too light. Light usually comes at some cost. I like having the extra HP, even if it means a couple of extra pounds. I knowthat where you live you can have some higher Density Alt. The extra HP wouldhelp you there as well.My three cents,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Fritz,I got the chance to fly the Model T powered Scout the Bernie built. Chris Essgardowned it back then and he had perform the rebuild of it. When Chris rebuiltit he replaced a lot of steel engine parts with aluminum parts. This madefor a tail heavy plane. I flew it that way. It didn't fly very well being sotail heavy and only 20 HP. That said. I also got to flt the A powered scoutthat Bernie built. The CG was correct and had more than twice the HP. Thatairplane was an absolute ball to fly. It was like a little sports car. So becareful when trying to make it too light. Light usually comes at some cost. I like having the extra HP, even if it means a couple of extra pounds. I knowthat where you live you can have some higher Density Alt. The extra HP wouldhelp you there as well.My three cents,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weightsScott, I am a self trained expert on losing weight. On my 1948 VtailBonanza I have shed almost 100 pounds. I pulled old wires, an old vacuumautopilot, scraped and cleaned caked oil and sludge out of the belly,pulled old Avionics, replaced too thick floorboards with correct thickness,Pulled out the thick carpet and put in thin and lightweight airliner"vinyl" flooring, and replaced long screws with short ones. I also threwthe joker out of the deck of cards, You never use it.In my Pietenpol rebuild, I have tried to make everything good enough and aslight as is reasonable. During the rebuild I was a demon on anything behindthe rear cockpit. on the Engine, I did not worry as much. Piets have a tailheavy reputation that I understand is well deserved.One tool I have to adjust weight and balance is the lawnmower battery(about 7 pounds). It is a total loss system, I have to charge it on theground. It is to power my radio, intercom, and handheld GPS (and anythingthat can be plugged into a cigarette lighter.) I put it inside the frontinstrument panel as far forward as possible. If the CG is Good then itstays, If I find it tail heavy, I can move it about 5 inches forward on thefront side of the firewall. If it is nose heavy, I can move it to the Pilotinstrument panel or even behind the pilot seat.I also have a center section wing tank and a Piper cub style tank. The wingtank is in the center of the CG. the Cub tank is in front of the Passenger.It can also be used for ballast adjustment, but if used will change the CGin flight.Here's to hoping I don't have a CG problem. I have yet to do a new weightand balance.Blue Skies,Steve DOn Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>>> Fritz,>> I got the chance to fly the Model T powered Scout the Bernie built. Chris> Essgard owned it back then and he had perform the rebuild of it. When> Chris rebuilt it he replaced a lot of steel engine parts with aluminum> parts. This made for a tail heavy plane. I flew it that way. It didn't> fly very well being so tail heavy and only 20 HP. That said. I also got> to flt the A powered scout that Bernie built. The CG was correct and had> more than twice the HP. That airplane was an absolute ball to fly. It was> like a little sports car. So be careful when trying to make it too light.> Light usually comes at some cost. I like having the extra HP, even if it> means a couple of extra pounds. I know that where you live you can have> some higher Density Alt. The extra HP would help you there as well.>> My three cents,>> --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 446789>>-- Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weightsScott, I am a self trained expert on losing weight. On my 1948 VtailBonanza I have shed almost 100 pounds. I pulled old wires, an old vacuumautopilot, scraped and cleaned caked oil and sludge out of the belly,pulled old Avionics, replaced too thick floorboards with correct thickness,Pulled out the thick carpet and put in thin and lightweight airliner"vinyl" flooring, and replaced long screws with short ones. I also threwthe joker out of the deck of cards, You never use it.In my Pietenpol rebuild, I have tried to make everything good enough and aslight as is reasonable. During the rebuild I was a demon on anything behindthe rear cockpit. on the Engine, I did not worry as much. Piets have a tailheavy reputation that I understand is well deserved.One tool I have to adjust weight and balance is the lawnmower battery(about 7 pounds). It is a total loss system, I have to charge it on theground. It is to power my radio, intercom, and handheld GPS (and anythingthat can be plugged into a cigarette lighter.) I put it inside the frontinstrument panel as far forward as possible. If the CG is Good then itstays, If I find it tail heavy, I can move it about 5 inches forward on thefront side of the firewall. If it is nose heavy, I can move it to the Pilotinstrument panel or even behind the pilot seat.I also have a center section wing tank and a Piper cub style tank. The wingtank is in the center of the CG. the Cub tank is in front of the Passenger.It can also be used for ballast adjustment, but if used will change the CGin flight.Here's to hoping I don't have a CG problem. I have yet to do a new weightand balance.Blue Skies,Steve DOn Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>>> Fritz,>> I got the chance to fly the Model T powered Scout the Bernie built. Chris> Essgard owned it back then and he had perform the rebuild of it. When> Chris rebuilt it he replaced a lot of steel engine parts with aluminum> parts. This made for a tail heavy plane. I flew it that way. It didn't> fly very well being so tail heavy and only 20 HP. That said. I also got> to flt the A powered scout that Bernie built. The CG was correct and had> more than twice the HP. That airplane was an absolute ball to fly. It was> like a little sports car. So be careful when trying to make it too light.> Light usually comes at some cost. I like having the extra HP, even if it> means a couple of extra pounds. I know that where you live you can have> some higher Density Alt. The extra HP would help you there as well.>> My three cents,>> --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 446789>>-- Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: "FritzW"
Steve,I sounds like you are doing all the right things. I too have a fuel system asdescribed by you. I have 10 in the nose and 12.5 in the center section. I onlyuse the CC tank when I am on cross country flights. It's nice to have theextra fuel.Good luck with your W&B. Congratulations on the Bonanza weight loss. Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Steve,I sounds like you are doing all the right things. I too have a fuel system asdescribed by you. I have 10 in the nose and 12.5 in the center section. I onlyuse the CC tank when I am on cross country flights. It's nice to have theextra fuel.Good luck with your W&B. Congratulations on the Bonanza weight loss. Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
My plans showed up last night! (Aircamper with supplement and 3 pice wing and theSky Scout plans). Hopefully we can weigh the Lambert and the Warner today tosee where were at.Like Scott mentioned I fly out of a pretty high altitude field that gets very hotin the summer, 9,000' density altitude is pretty common. So keeping it lightis important....and before I get a bunch of flack for committing the heresy of looking for opportunitiesto shed a few pounds on my high DA Pietenpol. I'm not a completeneophyte. If I build this airplane, It'll be my 6th homebuilt (two in the hangar,one just on the gear, one one the building table and one still on the drawingboard)--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
My plans showed up last night! (Aircamper with supplement and 3 pice wing and theSky Scout plans). Hopefully we can weigh the Lambert and the Warner today tosee where were at.Like Scott mentioned I fly out of a pretty high altitude field that gets very hotin the summer, 9,000' density altitude is pretty common. So keeping it lightis important....and before I get a bunch of flack for committing the heresy of looking for opportunitiesto shed a few pounds on my high DA Pietenpol. I'm not a completeneophyte. If I build this airplane, It'll be my 6th homebuilt (two in the hangar,one just on the gear, one one the building table and one still on the drawingboard)--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weights
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
I think I'd go with 2.8 oz. just because it'll stand up better to rock dings andhangar rash. Most of the fun places to fly around here have dirt strips. AndOratex is nice but it ain't cheap.I don't know about nitrous oxide on an 80 year old engine. It would be like puttinga miniskirt on your grandma. Even if it fit it would still be wrong. ;)I took some pictures of the engine candidates today, I'll post them as soon asI transfer them off my phone.--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I think I'd go with 2.8 oz. just because it'll stand up better to rock dings andhangar rash. Most of the fun places to fly around here have dirt strips. AndOratex is nice but it ain't cheap.I don't know about nitrous oxide on an 80 year old engine. It would be like puttinga miniskirt on your grandma. Even if it fit it would still be wrong. ;)I took some pictures of the engine candidates today, I'll post them as soon asI transfer them off my phone.--------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________