Original Posted By: vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: normalizing tig welds>>The god's honest truth is...I don't know.>>The fellows who tig weld , from what I hear, normalize their welds.>>Tig is approved for a/c work, and I don't think that they normalize.>>I read awhile back that the primary cause for weld failures in a/c are,>wrong filler rod,, not enough filler rod, and not normalizing welds after>welding.>>A local "expert" claims that tig leaves a very narrow heat affected zone>next to the weld that is subject to failure from fatigue. He also said that>gas welding, because of it's wider heat zone does tend to self normalize.>>As for myself, I am building an all steel tube frame airplane, and did use>gas to weld it with mild steel rod, and I did pre heat the weld zone before>I welded it, then slowly did remove the heat after welding to keep thewelds>as soft as possible to keep any cracks out.>>Bob>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation>>I'm assembling control components into the long fuselage, and have come to>realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its properplace>at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with thetorque>tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front ofthe>torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than about2".>>Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the>difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same>problem.....>>-Bill Beerman> Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot> 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet-> fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.> Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation>>I'm assembling control components into the long fuselage, and have come to>realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its properplace>at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with thetorque>tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front ofthe>torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than about2".>>Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the>difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same>problem.....>>-Bill Beerman> Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot> 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet-> fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.> Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......>>________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation>>> writes:>>>>>>>>Exactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs>>to>>be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped>>cutouts.>>>>My advice still stands..........break out the rat-tail file & make>sawdust until the torque tube can mount on the floor in front of the>front seat.>>Larry>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation>>> writes:>>>>>>>>Exactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs>>to>>be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped>>cutouts.>>>>My advice still stands..........break out the rat-tail file & make>sawdust until the torque tube can mount on the floor in front of the>front seat.>>Larry>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installationI'm assembling control components into the long fuselage, and have come to realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its proper place at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with the torque tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front of the torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than about 2".Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same problem.....-Bill Beerman Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet- fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress. Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:57:28 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installationI'm assembling control components into the long fuselage, and have come to realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its proper place at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with the torque tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front of the torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than about 2".Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same problem.....-Bill Beerman Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet- fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress. Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:57:28 -0700 (MST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: Lawrence V Williams
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installationExactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs to be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped cutouts. (I may have exaggerated a little about '2" above the floor'- I'll have to check to see if it's really that much). Nonetheless, it bothers me that you've not encountered the same thing. I think I mentioned in my first post that I'm 1/4 interest in the project. I'm doing the metalwork, while a friend built the fuse. Maybe one of us missed something....Are you building the long fuse Piet? My friend convinced me that no change to the torque tube length was required due to the long vs. short fuse change, but maybe that's not true. I'll have to double check. Thanks for the input!-Bill> > I've looked at the plans as well as my control installation and can't> figure out how you came to the situation that you're in.> > The only way I can see the run not being able to attach flat on the floor> is if your torque tube is hanging up on the bottom of the pie-shaped> cut-outs for the front seat. If that's the case, my suggestion would be> to open them up with a large rat-tail file until the torque tube can be> installed per the plans. Although I've mounted my torque tube on a 1/8"> ply pad on the front, there was clearance without it.> > Very perplexing!!> > Larry > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installationExactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs to be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped cutouts. (I may have exaggerated a little about '2" above the floor'- I'll have to check to see if it's really that much). Nonetheless, it bothers me that you've not encountered the same thing. I think I mentioned in my first post that I'm 1/4 interest in the project. I'm doing the metalwork, while a friend built the fuse. Maybe one of us missed something....Are you building the long fuse Piet? My friend convinced me that no change to the torque tube length was required due to the long vs. short fuse change, but maybe that's not true. I'll have to double check. Thanks for the input!-Bill> > I've looked at the plans as well as my control installation and can't> figure out how you came to the situation that you're in.> > The only way I can see the run not being able to attach flat on the floor> is if your torque tube is hanging up on the bottom of the pie-shaped> cut-outs for the front seat. If that's the case, my suggestion would be> to open them up with a large rat-tail file until the torque tube can be> installed per the plans. Although I've mounted my torque tube on a 1/8"> ply pad on the front, there was clearance without it.> > Very perplexing!!> > Larry > ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: William C. Beerman
Bill,I've completed that section and mine came out right to print. But I didnotice a few things about that. First, when I completed the torque tubewith all its welding, there was a slight bend in mine. Secondly, if Irecall correctly, the "V" shaped opening in the front seat back bottom toclear the tube, the dimensions were such that there could be somevariations.If you look at the pics of all the other projects, you'll see differentvariations of the hole. I took it that the bottom of the "V" was right downto the ash cross beam , and it worked out fine.There are alot of pics around, but mine is at the aircamper site underhttp://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbefseat1.jpgthe block to support the front "bearing" is at an angle to get the flatplane.Walt Evans-----Original Message-----
Bill,I've completed that section and mine came out right to print. But I didnotice a few things about that. First, when I completed the torque tubewith all its welding, there was a slight bend in mine. Secondly, if Irecall correctly, the "V" shaped opening in the front seat back bottom toclear the tube, the dimensions were such that there could be somevariations.If you look at the pics of all the other projects, you'll see differentvariations of the hole. I took it that the bottom of the "V" was right downto the ash cross beam , and it worked out fine.There are alot of pics around, but mine is at the aircamper site underhttp://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbefseat1.jpgthe block to support the front "bearing" is at an angle to get the flatplane.Walt Evans-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By:> William C. Beerman
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: Lawrence V Williams
The god's honest truth is...I don't know.The fellows who tig weld , from what I hear, normalize their welds.Tig is approved for a/c work, and I don't think that they normalize.I read awhile back that the primary cause for weld failures in a/c are, wrong filler rod,, not enough filler rod, and not normalizing welds after welding.A local "expert" claims that tig leaves a very narrow heat affected zone next to the weld that is subject to failure from fatigue. He also said that gas welding, because of it's wider heat zone does tend to self normalize.As for myself, I am building an all steel tube frame airplane, and did use gas to weld it with mild steel rod, and I did pre heat the weld zone before I welded it, then slowly did remove the heat after welding to keep the welds as soft as possible to keep any cracks out.Bob________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:27:41 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
The god's honest truth is...I don't know.The fellows who tig weld , from what I hear, normalize their welds.Tig is approved for a/c work, and I don't think that they normalize.I read awhile back that the primary cause for weld failures in a/c are, wrong filler rod,, not enough filler rod, and not normalizing welds after welding.A local "expert" claims that tig leaves a very narrow heat affected zone next to the weld that is subject to failure from fatigue. He also said that gas welding, because of it's wider heat zone does tend to self normalize.As for myself, I am building an all steel tube frame airplane, and did use gas to weld it with mild steel rod, and I did pre heat the weld zone before I welded it, then slowly did remove the heat after welding to keep the welds as soft as possible to keep any cracks out.Bob________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:27:41 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: Lawrence V Williams
Larry,Thats good advice, unless he built his the same as mine, where the "pie"notch comes right down to the ash crossmember. Can't be filing that...Maybethere is another prob.As I posted yesterday, I made mine exactly to the print, and it fits fine.( My pie comes right to the ash ).walt evans-----Original Message-----
Larry,Thats good advice, unless he built his the same as mine, where the "pie"notch comes right down to the ash crossmember. Can't be filing that...Maybethere is another prob.As I posted yesterday, I made mine exactly to the print, and it fits fine.( My pie comes right to the ash ).walt evans-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: normalizing tig welds
Original Posted By: oil can
Bob, My experience is that your "expert" is correct. I got a hold of 4130plate .080 thick to get me started on brackets. Someone had torch cut thispiece from a larger piece. After merrily laying out some parts, I went tothe band saw ( Do- All) to cut. Even though the pieces didn't get near theflame cut area, I had to continue cutting to separate the plate. 1/4" fromthe slag area "Zing" , no more teeth. Only to separate the plate was tobend it, and it snapped like glass. This would be just like a tig weldjoint...Try it for yourself. My AP mentor always repairs his welding jobs with mild steel rod. ( hehas rebuilt more Cub fuselages than I can count). He states that 4130 rodis used when the assy has to heat treated, which is not the case whenbuilding normally. If you read the books, they tell you to cool the pieceaway from drafts, fans etc. But it seems that the more you read, the more critical you get of yourwork. So when I asked him how you know if the welds aren't brittle, Hesimply grabbed a file , and ran the edge over the weld. It dug in and cut didn't skim over) and said it was fine. The is no substitute forexperience. I love to learn these tricks. I learned gas welding by trying to do as good as him, and probably willnever get there.walt evans-----Original Message-----
Bob, My experience is that your "expert" is correct. I got a hold of 4130plate .080 thick to get me started on brackets. Someone had torch cut thispiece from a larger piece. After merrily laying out some parts, I went tothe band saw ( Do- All) to cut. Even though the pieces didn't get near theflame cut area, I had to continue cutting to separate the plate. 1/4" fromthe slag area "Zing" , no more teeth. Only to separate the plate was tobend it, and it snapped like glass. This would be just like a tig weldjoint...Try it for yourself. My AP mentor always repairs his welding jobs with mild steel rod. ( hehas rebuilt more Cub fuselages than I can count). He states that 4130 rodis used when the assy has to heat treated, which is not the case whenbuilding normally. If you read the books, they tell you to cool the pieceaway from drafts, fans etc. But it seems that the more you read, the more critical you get of yourwork. So when I asked him how you know if the welds aren't brittle, Hesimply grabbed a file , and ran the edge over the weld. It dug in and cut didn't skim over) and said it was fine. The is no substitute forexperience. I love to learn these tricks. I learned gas welding by trying to do as good as him, and probably willnever get there.walt evans-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: "Doug"
Bill,i ended up with a 3/4 "shim under the front torque tube mount,worksfine,plenty of clearance,1/2" would have been sufice. Doug Hunt > realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its properplace > at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with thetorque > tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front ofthe > torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit thanabout 2".> > Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the > difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same > problem.....> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Bill,i ended up with a 3/4 "shim under the front torque tube mount,worksfine,plenty of clearance,1/2" would have been sufice. Doug Hunt > realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its properplace > at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with thetorque > tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front ofthe > torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit thanabout 2".> > Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the > difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same > problem.....> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By:>> "walter evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation>>Walt, thanks for the info. I look at at your picture, which appears to be a>rearward view across the ash cross-member at the landing gear back towardsthe>tail. I did notice two things- the wooden members that make up the Vee atthe>rear set don't actually come together at the bottom, where the cross-memberis.>The friend who built our fuse made it so they actually meet. Therein may be>the problem!>>Also, there's a bevel-edged block on the floor between the ash cross-memberand>the front seat. Is that to support the front of the torque tube?>>Thanks for the help,>-Bill>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation>>Walt, thanks for the info. I look at at your picture, which appears to be a>rearward view across the ash cross-member at the landing gear back towardsthe>tail. I did notice two things- the wooden members that make up the Vee atthe>rear set don't actually come together at the bottom, where the cross-memberis.>The friend who built our fuse made it so they actually meet. Therein may be>the problem!>>Also, there's a bevel-edged block on the floor between the ash cross-memberand>the front seat. Is that to support the front of the torque tube?>>Thanks for the help,>-Bill>
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By:> "Doug"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installationI double checked my torque tube installation last night. 3/4" looks about right.Filing won't help because the pie-shaped plywood cutout is routed out all theway to the wooden V under the seat. Thanks to everyone for all the input!It sounds like there are many ways to interpret the plans.Walt, we have a large removable cutout in the rear seat so we can access the elevetor bellcrank assembly for inspection. Otherwise I'm sure we would have had the same problem on torque tube installation.-Bill
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installationI double checked my torque tube installation last night. 3/4" looks about right.Filing won't help because the pie-shaped plywood cutout is routed out all theway to the wooden V under the seat. Thanks to everyone for all the input!It sounds like there are many ways to interpret the plans.Walt, we have a large removable cutout in the rear seat so we can access the elevetor bellcrank assembly for inspection. Otherwise I'm sure we would have had the same problem on torque tube installation.-Bill
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By:> "walter evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installationWalt, thanks for the info. I look at at your picture, which appears to be arearward view across the ash cross-member at the landing gear back towards thetail. I did notice two things- the wooden members that make up the Vee at the rear set don't actually come together at the bottom, where the cross-member is.The friend who built our fuse made it so they actually meet. Therein may bethe problem!Also, there's a bevel-edged block on the floor between the ash cross-member andthe front seat. Is that to support the front of the torque tube?Thanks for the help, -Bill
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installationWalt, thanks for the info. I look at at your picture, which appears to be arearward view across the ash cross-member at the landing gear back towards thetail. I did notice two things- the wooden members that make up the Vee at the rear set don't actually come together at the bottom, where the cross-member is.The friend who built our fuse made it so they actually meet. Therein may bethe problem!Also, there's a bevel-edged block on the floor between the ash cross-member andthe front seat. Is that to support the front of the torque tube?Thanks for the help, -Bill
Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: William C. Beerman
Bill,Yeah, the long block is to support the front bearing. Had to raise itslightly to get comfortable clearance in your problem area.Just a suggestion...why don't you split the difference raising under thefront and back bearing of the tube? Should be room under the seat, and thecontrol cables go back and up anyway. I had made a double pulley bracket tomount at rear of seat where cables come thru. Seemed to me that the cableswould be sawing on the thru holes.walt evans-----Original Message-----
Bill,Yeah, the long block is to support the front bearing. Had to raise itslightly to get comfortable clearance in your problem area.Just a suggestion...why don't you split the difference raising under thefront and back bearing of the tube? Should be room under the seat, and thecontrol cables go back and up anyway. I had made a double pulley bracket tomount at rear of seat where cables come thru. Seemed to me that the cableswould be sawing on the thru holes.walt evans-----Original Message-----
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: "oil can"
> > > > Exactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs to > be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped cutouts.> (I may have exaggerated a little about '2" above the floor'- I'll have Both mine and my friends have the same problem. He mounted the front ofhis torque tube on a block, I notched out the bottom of my V.Wayne Sippola, Winterpeg sippola(at)escape.ca________________________________________________________________________________
> > > > Exactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs to > be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped cutouts.> (I may have exaggerated a little about '2" above the floor'- I'll have Both mine and my friends have the same problem. He mounted the front ofhis torque tube on a block, I notched out the bottom of my V.Wayne Sippola, Winterpeg sippola(at)escape.ca________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: "William C. Beerman"
> > > Bill,i ended up with a 3/4 "shim under the front torque tube mount,works> fine,plenty of clearance,1/2" would have been sufice.> Doug Hunt> > > > realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its proper> place > > at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with the> torque > > tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front of> the > > torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than> about 2".> > > > Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the > > difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same > > problem.....> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> > > Bill,i ended up with a 3/4 "shim under the front torque tube mount,works> fine,plenty of clearance,1/2" would have been sufice.> Doug Hunt> > > > realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its proper> place > > at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with the> torque > > tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front of> the > > torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than> about 2".> > > > Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the > > difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same > > problem.....> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
> Mime-Version: 1.0> X-Status: $$$$> X-UID: 0000000032> > > Bill,> I've completed that section and mine came out right to print. But I did> notice a few things about that. First, when I completed the torque tube> with all its welding, there was a slight bend in mine. Secondly, if I> recall correctly, the "V" shaped opening in the front seat back bottom to> clear the tube, the dimensions were such that there could be some> variations.> If you look at the pics of all the other projects, you'll see different> variations of the hole. I took it that the bottom of the "V" was right down> to the ash cross beam , and it worked out fine.> There are alot of pics around, but mine is at the aircamper site under> http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbefseat1.jpg> the block to support the front "bearing" is at an angle to get the flat> plane.> Walt Evans> >Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the> >difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same> >problem.....> >> >-Bill Beerman> > Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot> > 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet-> > fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.> > Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......________________________________________________________________________________
> Mime-Version: 1.0> X-Status: $$$$> X-UID: 0000000032> > > Bill,> I've completed that section and mine came out right to print. But I did> notice a few things about that. First, when I completed the torque tube> with all its welding, there was a slight bend in mine. Secondly, if I> recall correctly, the "V" shaped opening in the front seat back bottom to> clear the tube, the dimensions were such that there could be some> variations.> If you look at the pics of all the other projects, you'll see different> variations of the hole. I took it that the bottom of the "V" was right down> to the ash cross beam , and it worked out fine.> There are alot of pics around, but mine is at the aircamper site under> http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbefseat1.jpg> the block to support the front "bearing" is at an angle to get the flat> plane.> Walt Evans> >Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the> >difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same> >problem.....> >> >-Bill Beerman> > Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot> > 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet-> > fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.> > Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......________________________________________________________________________________
>> Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
Original Posted By: Rodger & Betty
>> Mime-Version: 1.0>> X-Status: $$$$>> X-UID: 0000000032>>>>>> Bill,>> I've completed that section and mine came out right to print. But I did>> notice a few things about that. First, when I completed the torque tube>> with all its welding, there was a slight bend in mine. Secondly, if I>> recall correctly, the "V" shaped opening in the front seat back bottom to>> clear the tube, the dimensions were such that there could be some>> variations.>> If you look at the pics of all the other projects, you'll see different>> variations of the hole. I took it that the bottom of the "V" was rightdown>> to the ash cross beam , and it worked out fine.>> There are alot of pics around, but mine is at the aircamper site under>> http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbefseat1.jpg>> the block to support the front "bearing" is at an angle to get the flat>> plane.>> Walt Evans>> >Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the>> >difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same>> >problem.....>> >>> >-Bill Beerman>> > Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot>> > 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet->> > fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.>> > Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:13:54 -0600
>> Mime-Version: 1.0>> X-Status: $$$$>> X-UID: 0000000032>>>>>> Bill,>> I've completed that section and mine came out right to print. But I did>> notice a few things about that. First, when I completed the torque tube>> with all its welding, there was a slight bend in mine. Secondly, if I>> recall correctly, the "V" shaped opening in the front seat back bottom to>> clear the tube, the dimensions were such that there could be some>> variations.>> If you look at the pics of all the other projects, you'll see different>> variations of the hole. I took it that the bottom of the "V" was rightdown>> to the ash cross beam , and it worked out fine.>> There are alot of pics around, but mine is at the aircamper site under>> http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbefseat1.jpg>> the block to support the front "bearing" is at an angle to get the flat>> plane.>> Walt Evans>> >Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the>> >difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same>> >problem.....>> >>> >-Bill Beerman>> > Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot>> > 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet->> > fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.>> > Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:13:54 -0600