Original Posted By: "tonyp51qa"
Andy,Let me keep it simple and ask you two questions. In the 29 days since you joinedthe forum, other than posting 34 times, have you-1. Ordered any materials to build something?2. Built any portion of the aircraft?This is a great forum to ask questions, discuss construction methods, etc. It isnot a great place to throw out ideas like putting $5,000 BRS systems in an airplanecosting $15,000. You asked about it, and that is fine. But have you askedreal meaningful construction questions like spruce vs fir, T88 vs anotherepoxy, or some question that leads others to believe building a Pietenpol is morethan a mere mental exercise.Just get out there and build. Posting does not build your airplane. Building does.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Piet. Builder!
Pietenpol-List: New Piet. Builder!
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Hello everyone in the Pietenpol world. This is Tony and I live in northern Alabama.I received my plans from Andrew on Monday. And I just got my Vertical Stabilizerand Rudder from Aircraft Spruce today.Let the FUN begin!!! Tonytonyp51qa(at)gmail.com--------Tony CrawfordRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 20:23:44 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment
Hello everyone in the Pietenpol world. This is Tony and I live in northern Alabama.I received my plans from Andrew on Monday. And I just got my Vertical Stabilizerand Rudder from Aircraft Spruce today.Let the FUN begin!!! Tonytonyp51qa(at)gmail.com--------Tony CrawfordRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 20:23:44 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment
Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet. Builder!
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet. Builder!
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet. Builder!
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment
Original Posted By: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Hey Tony Welcome! Hopefully, you've visited this forum before and realize that it'snormally not as contentious as this afternoon. There are decades of experiencerepresented here. Wishing you a great build! Glen Aerial in progress(fuse off bench tail feathers to be glued thisweekend)Sent from my iPhone> On Mar 19, 2015, at 6:14 PM, "tonyp51qa" wrote:> > > Hello everyone in the Pietenpol world. This is Tony and I live in northern Alabama.I received my plans from Andrew on Monday. And I just got my Vertical Stabilizerand Rudder from Aircraft Spruce today.Let the FUN begin!!! > > Tony> > tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com> > --------> Tony Crawford> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 641#439641> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment
Hey Tony Welcome! Hopefully, you've visited this forum before and realize that it'snormally not as contentious as this afternoon. There are decades of experiencerepresented here. Wishing you a great build! Glen Aerial in progress(fuse off bench tail feathers to be glued thisweekend)Sent from my iPhone> On Mar 19, 2015, at 6:14 PM, "tonyp51qa" wrote:> > > Hello everyone in the Pietenpol world. This is Tony and I live in northern Alabama.I received my plans from Andrew on Monday. And I just got my Vertical Stabilizerand Rudder from Aircraft Spruce today.Let the FUN begin!!! > > Tony> > tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com> > --------> Tony Crawford> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 641#439641> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment
Original Posted By: Jack
Three five gallon buckets of sawdust so far!Sent from my iPhone> On Mar 19, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:> > Hey Terry, what would be involved in making my Piet a side by side two seater, with nose gear?> > Ducking and running!> > Terry is great for prodding you back into the shop. Due to his tirades about my typing and not working, I try to get something, even a little thing done, every day. stay thick skinned and keep building and asking questions.> > BTW Today I sanded various places go get a really good tight fit. This is where I had to reglue (Epoxy resin really) old joints and glue new wood in on the Horizontal Stab restoration. I will be putting a new "rear horizontal tail spar" on this weekend. I also am going to get some wood tomorrow for the tail "ribs" and install them. Once this is done I can patch my ailerons where I had to take the horns out, fix and weld on one, prime and paint them both and reinstall, then I will cover the Horizontal Stab. I might even get close to painting the ailerons and horizontal and vertical Stabs this weekend, but it looks like 3+ inches of rain Friday and Saturday.Latex is not that picky about humidity, So a reasonably dry Sunday may do. Then on to the next small project. (ARROW storage and display, almost finished.)> > Now go cut some wood, or buy an engine block, or start making metal parts.> > Blue Skies,> Steve D> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:45 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:tmail.com>>> >> Andy,>> >> Let me keep it simple and ask you two questions. In the 29 days since you joined the forum, other than posting 34 times, have you->> >> 1. Ordered any materials to build something?>> 2. Built any portion of the aircraft?>> >> This is a great forum to ask questions, discuss construction methods, etc. It is not a great place to throw out ideas like putting $5,000 BRS systems in an airplane costing $15,000. You asked about it, and that is fine. But have you asked real meaningful construction questions like spruce vs fir, T88 vs another epoxy, or some question that leads others to believe building a Pietenpol is more than a mere mental exercise.>> >> Just get out there and build. Posting does not build your airplane. Building does.>> >> -------->> Semper Fi,>> >> Terry Hand>> Athens, GA>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 640#439640>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==========>> br> enpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> ==========>> FORUMS ->> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com>> ==========>> b Site ->> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> ==========> > > > -- > Blue Skies,> Steve D> > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________
Three five gallon buckets of sawdust so far!Sent from my iPhone> On Mar 19, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:> > Hey Terry, what would be involved in making my Piet a side by side two seater, with nose gear?> > Ducking and running!> > Terry is great for prodding you back into the shop. Due to his tirades about my typing and not working, I try to get something, even a little thing done, every day. stay thick skinned and keep building and asking questions.> > BTW Today I sanded various places go get a really good tight fit. This is where I had to reglue (Epoxy resin really) old joints and glue new wood in on the Horizontal Stab restoration. I will be putting a new "rear horizontal tail spar" on this weekend. I also am going to get some wood tomorrow for the tail "ribs" and install them. Once this is done I can patch my ailerons where I had to take the horns out, fix and weld on one, prime and paint them both and reinstall, then I will cover the Horizontal Stab. I might even get close to painting the ailerons and horizontal and vertical Stabs this weekend, but it looks like 3+ inches of rain Friday and Saturday.Latex is not that picky about humidity, So a reasonably dry Sunday may do. Then on to the next small project. (ARROW storage and display, almost finished.)> > Now go cut some wood, or buy an engine block, or start making metal parts.> > Blue Skies,> Steve D> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:45 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:tmail.com>>> >> Andy,>> >> Let me keep it simple and ask you two questions. In the 29 days since you joined the forum, other than posting 34 times, have you->> >> 1. Ordered any materials to build something?>> 2. Built any portion of the aircraft?>> >> This is a great forum to ask questions, discuss construction methods, etc. It is not a great place to throw out ideas like putting $5,000 BRS systems in an airplane costing $15,000. You asked about it, and that is fine. But have you asked real meaningful construction questions like spruce vs fir, T88 vs another epoxy, or some question that leads others to believe building a Pietenpol is more than a mere mental exercise.>> >> Just get out there and build. Posting does not build your airplane. Building does.>> >> -------->> Semper Fi,>> >> Terry Hand>> Athens, GA>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 640#439640>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==========>> br> enpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> ==========>> FORUMS ->> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com>> ==========>> b Site ->> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> ==========> > > > -- > Blue Skies,> Steve D> > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: New Piet. Builder!
Original Posted By: "aviken"
Andy,Please don't give up. "There are no stupid questions"...you know the rest. I hopewe are all here to help each other, whatever our position and to not so easilytake offense. Hopefully something that is said positively could inspire othersto start to build or continue to build. None of us is too old to learn, nortoo experienced to not pick up something from each other. I just flew my plane 2 days ago for the first time. I have a fairly extensive historyin aviation but the thrill of that flight ranks up there with my firstsolo; it was awesome! My hope is that whatever has been said will not deter youfrom continuing on your journey to hopefully have that same experience. It trulyis worth it.I am happy to help in any way that I can, for so many have helped me along my journey.Especially when I thought I was asking the stupid questions.Hang in there,JackSent from my iPad> On Mar 19, 2015, at 7:53 PM, Andy Garrett wrote:> > > Andy, > > > > I will save time and speak plainly: Unless you have a very serious approach change,your never going to make it in aircraft building. > > > > Your Comment: I just have certain 'devices' I use to ferret out the informationand passionate opinions that I seek." > > Is pretty insulting to say the least. As man who writes as passionately as youdo, I find this comment incredible. All the same, I apologize. I am not hereto have people "ferret out" things. I am here to share what I know. The veryconcept that you honestly think that knowing little or nothing about planes, youcan spark an internet discussion between people you have never met, and thenon the basis or reading a few hundred words, suddenly you are qualified to evaluatethe mechanical integrity, the operational history, the builder issuesand details of each option. That my friend, is a total joke. Yet after readinga few hundred of my words, you have made an assessment of my "mechanical integrity",my "operational history" and decided that public ridicule and embarrassmentwas the direction to take. You've decided that I am ignorance and declaredme unfit with no hope of success. Moreover, you've done it in front of otherswho obviously admire you, who may have better under!> stood my cultural and education bias and chosen to help me as they could.In 25years I have personally known 500 people who have finished a homebuilt, maybe180 of them working on a plans built design that was their first plane. Theyhad a common characteristic: They all found 2 or 3 successfully builders of thesame design, and followed their lead. They didn't 'vet' or screen these peopleand evaluate their integrity, because they didn't have the expertise to doso. They just looked at their success, and used it as a pattern. That is vettingsir. They just correctly assumed that they would learn why these successfulbuilders did what they did along the way. Such an assumption is also a formof vetting. They didn't blindly follow anyone, but they didn't question peoplesdecisions on subjects they really didn't know anything about yet. How else dowe understand a person decision unless we question why it was made--explorethe contributing factors?. This is a logical approach!> . To not do so IS blindly following. Your statement is unclear!> at best> > --contradictory at worst. I also have met, in person easily more than 10,000people who told me that they were absolutely personally committed to successfullybuilding their plane, and all of these people failed. Failed to do what sir?Fly a plane they completed? I recently met a man in his eighties who had justcompleted the plane he knew he would never fly. Did he fail? What of thosebuilders with a 20 year old half built aircraft in their garage which remindsthem of all the great nights working with their father? Having enjoyed and learnedfrom what they accomplished, did they too fail by your standards? They alsohad a common characteristic: They thought just like you. Again, a few hundredwords, and you know how I think? Presumptuous.> My experience says that people very rarely change their approach, no matter whatthey say. Go ahead, take the next 10 years of your spare time and all yourextra money and try to prove that you are the 1 in 10,000 guy who is going tomake the "start arguments, and evaluate from no experience" process work. Itwas not my intention to start an argument. I appologize again Mr. Wynne. Goodluck with that. Your life, your choice, your approach. -ww.> > I am truly sorry for any offense. It was my desire to spend many years here asI worked through and enjoyed my build. Obviously, I will find a different engineplatform to build, as you clearly have no patience for my kind. I guess themoney I've spent with your company thus far was wasted. I fear that I willalso have to become a mere lurker here on the forums, trying to absorb what Ican through passive means. Perhaps a few will help me through PMs.> > You, the leading expert on Corvairs, an authority on Pietenpols, and an ambassadorin the homebuilding world have read a couple hundred of my words and passedjudgment. I have been weighed, measured, and found wanting..., by you. Wherea rational man recognizing his status in this community would have sent meprivate message to coach me on my approach if he objected, you chose public shamingand humiliation. I find your attitude to be unbecoming a man positionedto influence so many. Mentorship does not seem to suit you on this day.> > I consider the matter closed. Best to you and yours.> > --------> Andy Garrett> 'General Purpose Creative Dude'> Haysville, Kansas> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 635#439635> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Piet. Builder!
Andy,Please don't give up. "There are no stupid questions"...you know the rest. I hopewe are all here to help each other, whatever our position and to not so easilytake offense. Hopefully something that is said positively could inspire othersto start to build or continue to build. None of us is too old to learn, nortoo experienced to not pick up something from each other. I just flew my plane 2 days ago for the first time. I have a fairly extensive historyin aviation but the thrill of that flight ranks up there with my firstsolo; it was awesome! My hope is that whatever has been said will not deter youfrom continuing on your journey to hopefully have that same experience. It trulyis worth it.I am happy to help in any way that I can, for so many have helped me along my journey.Especially when I thought I was asking the stupid questions.Hang in there,JackSent from my iPad> On Mar 19, 2015, at 7:53 PM, Andy Garrett wrote:> > > Andy, > > > > I will save time and speak plainly: Unless you have a very serious approach change,your never going to make it in aircraft building. > > > > Your Comment: I just have certain 'devices' I use to ferret out the informationand passionate opinions that I seek." > > Is pretty insulting to say the least. As man who writes as passionately as youdo, I find this comment incredible. All the same, I apologize. I am not hereto have people "ferret out" things. I am here to share what I know. The veryconcept that you honestly think that knowing little or nothing about planes, youcan spark an internet discussion between people you have never met, and thenon the basis or reading a few hundred words, suddenly you are qualified to evaluatethe mechanical integrity, the operational history, the builder issuesand details of each option. That my friend, is a total joke. Yet after readinga few hundred of my words, you have made an assessment of my "mechanical integrity",my "operational history" and decided that public ridicule and embarrassmentwas the direction to take. You've decided that I am ignorance and declaredme unfit with no hope of success. Moreover, you've done it in front of otherswho obviously admire you, who may have better under!> stood my cultural and education bias and chosen to help me as they could.In 25years I have personally known 500 people who have finished a homebuilt, maybe180 of them working on a plans built design that was their first plane. Theyhad a common characteristic: They all found 2 or 3 successfully builders of thesame design, and followed their lead. They didn't 'vet' or screen these peopleand evaluate their integrity, because they didn't have the expertise to doso. They just looked at their success, and used it as a pattern. That is vettingsir. They just correctly assumed that they would learn why these successfulbuilders did what they did along the way. Such an assumption is also a formof vetting. They didn't blindly follow anyone, but they didn't question peoplesdecisions on subjects they really didn't know anything about yet. How else dowe understand a person decision unless we question why it was made--explorethe contributing factors?. This is a logical approach!> . To not do so IS blindly following. Your statement is unclear!> at best> > --contradictory at worst. I also have met, in person easily more than 10,000people who told me that they were absolutely personally committed to successfullybuilding their plane, and all of these people failed. Failed to do what sir?Fly a plane they completed? I recently met a man in his eighties who had justcompleted the plane he knew he would never fly. Did he fail? What of thosebuilders with a 20 year old half built aircraft in their garage which remindsthem of all the great nights working with their father? Having enjoyed and learnedfrom what they accomplished, did they too fail by your standards? They alsohad a common characteristic: They thought just like you. Again, a few hundredwords, and you know how I think? Presumptuous.> My experience says that people very rarely change their approach, no matter whatthey say. Go ahead, take the next 10 years of your spare time and all yourextra money and try to prove that you are the 1 in 10,000 guy who is going tomake the "start arguments, and evaluate from no experience" process work. Itwas not my intention to start an argument. I appologize again Mr. Wynne. Goodluck with that. Your life, your choice, your approach. -ww.> > I am truly sorry for any offense. It was my desire to spend many years here asI worked through and enjoyed my build. Obviously, I will find a different engineplatform to build, as you clearly have no patience for my kind. I guess themoney I've spent with your company thus far was wasted. I fear that I willalso have to become a mere lurker here on the forums, trying to absorb what Ican through passive means. Perhaps a few will help me through PMs.> > You, the leading expert on Corvairs, an authority on Pietenpols, and an ambassadorin the homebuilding world have read a couple hundred of my words and passedjudgment. I have been weighed, measured, and found wanting..., by you. Wherea rational man recognizing his status in this community would have sent meprivate message to coach me on my approach if he objected, you chose public shamingand humiliation. I find your attitude to be unbecoming a man positionedto influence so many. Mentorship does not seem to suit you on this day.> > I consider the matter closed. Best to you and yours.> > --------> Andy Garrett> 'General Purpose Creative Dude'> Haysville, Kansas> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 635#439635> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Piet. Builder!
Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Hi Tony, Welcome to the forum.. I am a relatively new builder also as I haveonly been building about 16 months. I hope you enjoy this quest as much as Ihave.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment
Hi Tony, Welcome to the forum.. I am a relatively new builder also as I haveonly been building about 16 months. I hope you enjoy this quest as much as Ihave.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment
Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet. Builder!
Original Posted By: Michael Groah
Jack Fastnaught;Congratulations on finishing and flying you plane In an arena where at least 80%of the people who start do not make it to where you are, you are to be congratulatedon the achievement..You are very correct, there are no bad questions. but there are unproductive andpoorly timed ways of asking questions, and questions just looking for conflict/entertainment/distraction,none of which serve the pursuit of learning..Half of what I know about planes is from books, the other 50% is from listeningto and asking questions of people who knew what I did not yet. I have learnedfrom hundreds of aviators like this, Professors, mechanics, CFI's, FAA men, youname it. I like learning more than teaching, I share what I know because thethings people taught me came with the unspoken agreement that when the timecame, I would share it with the next person..I started by spending five and a half years at Embry-Riddle. That is a lot of classroomhours. I went to each class with the reasonable assumption that if theprofessor had been teaching the subject for a decade or to, and had often workedin industry or served in the military before that, that he was plenty qualified.I only asked questions after reading the background work; when I asked a question,it wasn't seeking to find validation of an assumption I brought with me; andit was always asked with the understanding that there was a 99.99% chance itwas something I wasn't getting yet and a .001% chance the instructor was wrong.The CFI I learned from got his instructor rating in 1952. I later found out thathe had more than 500 students that went on to things like flying the B-2 andbeing a national aerobatic champion. When he told me to do things in the plane,I did them, knowing that I could ask later, but in all likelihood the answerwould become obvious shortly. When I was yet to understand why he wanted somethingjust so, I didn't go find his last season's students and other peopleat the airport and "ferret out" information, and I sure as shit didn't do thatwith the assumption that I with 2.0 hours in my log book had discovered somethingdeficient about a guy with 14,000 hours of instruction Jack, I am sure you learned countless things in building your plane that you wouldwish to share with anyone new. Maybe you have been around planes a long timealso, maybe seen some bad days at the airport that no one need repeat. I amsure, as most aviators are, you would want to share that also with anyone whois genuinely listening. Given your accomplishment, when you have some thing tosay in response to a question, especially to a new guy, I think the new guymight just listen without the assumption you are wrong or lying. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet. Builder!
Jack Fastnaught;Congratulations on finishing and flying you plane In an arena where at least 80%of the people who start do not make it to where you are, you are to be congratulatedon the achievement..You are very correct, there are no bad questions. but there are unproductive andpoorly timed ways of asking questions, and questions just looking for conflict/entertainment/distraction,none of which serve the pursuit of learning..Half of what I know about planes is from books, the other 50% is from listeningto and asking questions of people who knew what I did not yet. I have learnedfrom hundreds of aviators like this, Professors, mechanics, CFI's, FAA men, youname it. I like learning more than teaching, I share what I know because thethings people taught me came with the unspoken agreement that when the timecame, I would share it with the next person..I started by spending five and a half years at Embry-Riddle. That is a lot of classroomhours. I went to each class with the reasonable assumption that if theprofessor had been teaching the subject for a decade or to, and had often workedin industry or served in the military before that, that he was plenty qualified.I only asked questions after reading the background work; when I asked a question,it wasn't seeking to find validation of an assumption I brought with me; andit was always asked with the understanding that there was a 99.99% chance itwas something I wasn't getting yet and a .001% chance the instructor was wrong.The CFI I learned from got his instructor rating in 1952. I later found out thathe had more than 500 students that went on to things like flying the B-2 andbeing a national aerobatic champion. When he told me to do things in the plane,I did them, knowing that I could ask later, but in all likelihood the answerwould become obvious shortly. When I was yet to understand why he wanted somethingjust so, I didn't go find his last season's students and other peopleat the airport and "ferret out" information, and I sure as shit didn't do thatwith the assumption that I with 2.0 hours in my log book had discovered somethingdeficient about a guy with 14,000 hours of instruction Jack, I am sure you learned countless things in building your plane that you wouldwish to share with anyone new. Maybe you have been around planes a long timealso, maybe seen some bad days at the airport that no one need repeat. I amsure, as most aviators are, you would want to share that also with anyone whois genuinely listening. Given your accomplishment, when you have some thing tosay in response to a question, especially to a new guy, I think the new guymight just listen without the assumption you are wrong or lying. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet. Builder!