Pietenpol-List: Re: NW Area Piets

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Aug 29, 1998 1:28 am

Original Posted By: John Greenlee
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NW Area PietsSpeaking of tests, are there any strength tests that I could run onmy 'practice' rib to make sure I'm building correctly? It would benice to see a rib pass a stress test of some kind before I get in andfly away. :)Richard> Bud,> I, too am in the early construction phase of my Piet, and our> chapter designee recommended using Pliobond II glue. This is good> quality carpenter's glue and easy to use. My tests broke the wood,> not the joint every time. You might want to check this out...it> works for me. Don Cooley (ADonJr(at)AOL.com)-------------------------------------------------Homepage: http://207.140.1.221/w3builder_________ ... __________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Aug 29, 1998 12:16 pm

Original Posted By: Dean Dayton
Am building an all wood Piet that will use an A65 Continental. Has anyoneused Probond Poyurethane glue in wood planes? How does it compare with otherglues? Also need to know how much rudder offset in this plane. Is thereanyone in the Portland, OR, Vancouver, WA area building or has Piet? Pleasecontact me at Patcoolnet(at)AOL.com.Would like to hear from you. Am 72 years old, not much time left, so hurry!(ha, ha)Regards:Bud________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Aug 29, 1998 2:25 pm

Original Posted By: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Speaking of tests, are there any strength tests that I could run on my 'practice' rib to make sure I'm building correctly? It would be nice to see a rib pass a stress test of some kind before I get in and fly away. :)Richard> Bud,> I, too am in the early construction phase of my Piet, and our> chapter designee recommended using Pliobond II glue. This is good> quality carpenter's glue and easy to use. My tests broke the wood,> not the joint every time. You might want to check this out...it> works for me. Don Cooley (ADonJr(at)AOL.com)-------------------------------------------------Homepage: http://207.140.1.221/w3builder_________ ... __________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Aug 29, 1998 4:47 pm

Original Posted By: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Bud,I, too am in the early construction phase of my Piet, and our chapter designeerecommended using Pliobond II glue. This is good quality carpenter's glue andeasy to use. My tests broke the wood, not the joint every time. You mightwant to check this out...it works for me.Don Cooley (ADonJr(at)AOL.com)________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Aug 29, 1998 4:48 pm

Original Posted By: rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com (Richard DeCosta)
Bud, Sorry, it's Titebond II glue. Not Pliobond...Silly me! Don________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Aug 29, 1998 9:53 pm

Original Posted By: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Richard,I'm not an expert on this, and I'm sure there'll be more input, but the onecomment I've heard, universally made about Pietenpol's airplanes is thatthey're over-built, and "strong as a bridge." If you're building to theplans, it'll be strong enough.Don Cooley________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sun Aug 30, 1998 12:36 am

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
I used aerolite and resorsonal (sp).Rudder offset on my plane is 1/2", I would consider a little more however,perhaps 5/8".Stevee-----Original Message-----Patcoolnet(at)aol.comSent: Saturday, August 29, 1998 11:17 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NW Area PietsAm building an all wood Piet that will use an A65 Continental. Has anyoneused Probond Poyurethane glue in wood planes? How does it compare withotherglues? Also need to know how much rudder offset in this plane. Is thereanyone in the Portland, OR, Vancouver, WA area building or has Piet? Pleasecontact me at Patcoolnet(at)AOL.com.Would like to hear from you. Am 72 years old, not much time left, so hurry!(ha, ha)Regards:Bud________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sun Aug 30, 1998 12:29 pm

Original Posted By: Dave and Connie
Steve:Which engine are you using on your Piet??________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Aug 31, 1998 2:23 am

Original Posted By: James Nichols
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NW Area Piets>>Am building an all wood Piet that will use an A65 Continental. Has>anyone>used Probond Poyurethane glue in wood planes? How does it compare>with other>glues? Also need to know how much rudder offset in this plane.>Is there>anyone in the Portland, OR, Vancouver, WA area>>Bud>>>Bud- Try Craig Aho who's a Naval Shipyard Carpenter building his>SECOND Pietenpol at the moment. He is in the "I can build this in>a one car garage Club" like myself and SteveE in Provo.>>Craig Aho>23307 45th Ave West>Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043>425-778-7650>>Mike C.>>>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Aug 31, 1998 7:19 am

Original Posted By: David Scott
>Am building an all wood Piet that will use an A65 Continental. Hasanyone>used Probond Poyurethane glue in wood planes? How does it comparewith other>glues? Also need to know how much rudder offset in this plane.Is there>anyone in the Portland, OR, Vancouver, WA area >Bud>Bud- Try Craig Aho who's a Naval Shipyard Carpenter building hisSECOND Pietenpol at the moment. He is in the "I can build this ina one car garage Club" like myself and SteveE in Provo. Craig Aho23307 45th Ave WestMountlake Terrace, WA 98043425-778-7650Mike C.>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Aug 31, 1998 7:52 am

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
I am Curious, Don, but a carpenter glue would be a great alternative to epoxy!Do you know if it is as water proof as epoxy?ADonJr(at)aol.com wrote:> Bud,> I, too am in the early construction phase of my Piet, and our chapter designee> recommended using Pliobond II glue. This is good quality carpenter's glue and> easy to use. My tests broke the wood, not the joint every time. You might> want to check this out...it works for me.> Don Cooley (ADonJr(at)AOL.com)--/-------------------- |~~_____/~~__ ||scott(at)haulpak.com | o' ~~|~~~ |title: Design Engineertel;work: 309-672-7706tel;fax: 309-672-7753tel;home: not posted________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Aug 31, 1998 9:00 am

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
A-65Stevee-----Original Message-----Patcoolnet(at)aol.comSent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 11:30 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NW Area PietsSteve:Which engine are you using on your Piet??________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Aug 31, 1998 10:04 am

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
-----Original Message-----Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 8:36 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: IntercomSteve-I spent the past few weeks giving tons of rides as you have been doing.Was wondering if you use an intercom to see how your passengersare liking their ride or not ? I thought the wind noise would mess upusing my 9V intercom/headset deal but with the foam sleeves over themics it doesn't pose any problems. (unless someone hangs theirhead out in the wind) Do you have the basic controls hooked upin front for pilots/enthusiast's to get a feel of the Piet ? Did you notice how with full fuel and an adult passenger that there isnot much 'float' left in the Piet at touchdown like when you are solo ?I've been asking my passengers to lean to the right on landings so Ican line up better on final and round out. Seems to help. You can post all of this if you want on the discussion group, I justdon't want to seem like a 'hog' always commenting, etc. ps- Did you know that scripture endorses flying in Pietenpols ??'Lo, I am with you always. See ?? God never mentions beingwith you when high, does he ?Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Aug 31, 1998 10:27 am

Original Posted By: "Warren D. Shoun"
________________________________________________________________________________Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 8:36 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: IntercomSteve-I spent the past few weeks giving tons of rides as you have been doing.Was wondering if you use an intercom to see how your passengersare liking their ride or not ? I thought the wind noise would mess upusing my 9V intercom/headset deal but with the foam sleeves over themics it doesn't pose any problems. (unless someone hangs theirhead out in the wind) Do you have the basic controls hooked upin front for pilots/enthusiast's to get a feel of the Piet ? Did you notice how with full fuel and an adult passenger that there isnot much 'float' left in the Piet at touchdown like when you are solo ?I've been asking my passengers to lean to the right on landings so Ican line up better on final and round out. Seems to help.You can post all of this if you want on the discussion group, I justdon't want to seem like a 'hog' always commenting, etc.ps- Did you know that scripture endorses flying in Pietenpols ??'Lo, I am with you always. See ?? God never mentions beingwith you when high, does he ?Mike C.Mike, I had to forward this like you suggested, as I think is would be ofinterest to others. And I'm sure that you are not hogging the list. I'dfeel different if we had trouble with too many messages, but as of now onlya few of the 120 participants... participate. Glad to hear about theintercom working out. I have not used anything except earplugs for most ofmy flights. Most people are so wrapped up in the experience they forget howto express themselves! Actually I haven't an intercom or a headset adapteryet.I have noticed what you mention about no floating with a full load. Myfirst few landings were pretty hard, until I decided to come in with someextra speed, or touch off the round out with a little power. Slips workwell to get the front seat occupant out of the line of site of the runway.I love to slip. Never had a plane that would do it as well. I do have myheavier passegers keep their arms inside until we reach altitude. The extradrag kills climb performance. I also had one pass just decide to stick botharms out just as I started my flare. It caused me to dump it on before Iexpected.Three more young eagles Saturday, and some good memories.Steve E.________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Aug 31, 1998 10:59 am

Original Posted By: Peter P Frantz
Congratulations to both of you guys for the rides that you have given tofolks who would not otherwise know what drives us to build thesethings....especially the "young eagles". Mentoring at its' finest guys. As for Michael "hogging" the space....I learn a little more with everrelated experience, so keep going Michael.Best Regards,Warren________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Aug 31, 1998 2:13 pm

Original Posted By: David Scott
David,According to the label, Titebond II "passes the ANSI type II water resistancetesting." Our chapter designee built the wings for his Wagabond using thisglue and has had no problems. I am sealing my structure with three coats ofVarathane which increases the water resistance, further. I probably would notbuild a seaplane/amphibian with this glue, but for Pietenpol use it is plentystrong, (it broke wood in all my tests), and has adequate moisture resistance.Of course, I'm still listening to the information and experiences of others.Don________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Aug 31, 1998 5:00 pm

Original Posted By: "Richard DeCosta"
I'd want to do some long-term tests with this stuff before using it in aplane. Two or three years ago, there were some comments aboutthe would-be waterproof carpenters glues ... well, somewhere orother; I lose track of what appeared in a magazine, what floatedthrough a mailing list, etc. Anyway, some people found them littleif any better than normal carpenter's glues, prone to come apartwhen really used in moist conditions. Others reported better results.No one seemed to know what caused the difference.One neighbor of mine who builds wood ultralights and parts as aretirement business swears by the polyurethane glues, but again I'veheard mixed results with them. Wooden Boat panned them for usein their field. One variable clearly is clamping pressure, to which theyseem pretty sensitive, but there may be other problems.I really hate to work with resorcinol, which always makes me thinkI should stay out of coal mines unless wearing a respirator (to saynothing of being awfully finicky about your joints), but the more I thinkabout it the more I suspect it is still the way to go.Owen Davies>Do you know if it is as water proof as epoxy?>> I, too am in the early construction phase of my Piet, and our chapterdesignee>> recommended using Pliobond II glue. This is good quality carpenter'sglue and>> easy to use. My tests broke the wood, not the joint every time. Youmight>> want to check this out...it works for me.________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Sep 02, 1998 9:44 pm

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Yes I bought some of the polyurethane glue at the local Wal-Mart.it seemed strong enough, previously I had talked to a man that imports asimilar glue and he says that it doesn't have gap fill ability. I think I have read where a very skilled designer and builder is using theglue but my personal experience is that the glue in gaps foamsup like window insulating foam as has no strength. It does seemto have many advantages it's easy to use, water proof strong but Iprefer something like epoxy or resorcinol that has strong gap fillingproperties!-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Sep 03, 1998 3:55 am

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NW Area Piets>Among other useful comments, Russell Ray observed:>>> I prefer something like epoxy or resorcinol that has strong>> gap filling properties!>>Careful there! Epoxy fills gaps beautifully, but I've always heard>that resorcinol has virtually no gap-filling ability at all. The big>problem with using it (other than that it always reminds me not>to mess around in coal mines without dust protection) is that>it won't tolerate anything but the best woodworking with the>tightest joints you can manage.>>Owen Davies>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Sep 03, 1998 4:37 am

Original Posted By: Owen Davies
are there any piets in the los angeles area?????????????????/At 21:44 9/2/98-0500, you wrote:> Yes I bought some of the polyurethane glue at the local Wal-Mart.>it seemed strong enough, previously I had talked to a man that imports a>similar glue and he says that it doesn't have gap fill ability.> I think I have read where a very skilled designer and builder is using the>glue but my personal experience is that the glue in gaps foams>up like window insulating foam as has no strength. It does seem>to have many advantages it's easy to use, water proof strong but I>prefer something like epoxy or resorcinol that has strong gap filling>properties!>-----Original Message----->From: Michael D Cuy >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 7:23 AM>Subject: Re: NW Area Piets>>>>>Am building an all wood Piet that will use an A65 Continental. Has>>anyone>used Probond Poyurethane glue in wood planes? How does it compare>>with other>glues? Also need to know how much rudder offset in this plane.>>Is there>anyone in the Portland, OR, Vancouver, WA area>>>Bud>>>>>Bud- Try Craig Aho who's a Naval Shipyard Carpenter building his>>SECOND Pietenpol at the moment. He is in the "I can build this in>>a one car garage Club" like myself and SteveE in Provo.>>>>Craig Aho>>23307 45th Ave West>>Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043>>425-778-7650>>>>Mike C.>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Sep 03, 1998 8:45 am

Original Posted By: russell ray
Among other useful comments, Russell Ray observed:> I prefer something like epoxy or resorcinol that has strong> gap filling properties!Careful there! Epoxy fills gaps beautifully, but I've always heardthat resorcinol has virtually no gap-filling ability at all. The bigproblem with using it (other than that it always reminds me notto mess around in coal mines without dust protection) is thatit won't tolerate anything but the best woodworking with thetightest joints you can manage.Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Sep 03, 1998 9:07 am

Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
yes there's a picture of rib testing in the one of the old glidermanual's. they seem to hang the rib on a short spar extendingfrom the wall and hang sand bags on the rib. I'm not a structuralengineer but it seems that your plane at gross minus the weightof the wing times 6-g's devided by the number of ribs would be a good totalweight, to test negativeloads a person would turn the rib upside down. rememberthis is a over simplified test and load dispersion on therib is not uniform and is more concentrated on the front sparein level and normal flight. I know very little about this so maybesomeone that has actually built a plane could give some input.-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Sep 03, 1998 12:48 pm

Original Posted By: Owen Davies
Owen,Thanks for the correction on resorcinal glue,-----Original Message-----

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