Original Posted By: Brent Reed
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Help... do I have a major problem?>I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA and>have read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24>ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood.>>I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded my>plywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did the>water test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywood>is scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As the>book predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece but>kindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak in as>well either.>>Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the>25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without this>scuffing?>>Concerned,>>Richard>>>==>http://www.wrld.com/w3builder>Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com:>http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Help... do I have a major problem?
Pietenpol-List: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Ron Gipson
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Help... do I have a major problem?>I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA and>have read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24>ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood.>>I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded my>plywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did the>water test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywood>is scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As the>book predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece but>kindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak in as>well either.>>Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the>25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without this>scuffing?>>Concerned,>>Richard>>>==>http://www.wrld.com/w3builder>Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com:>http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd ... __________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Help... do I have a major problem?>I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA and>have read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24>ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood.>>I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded my>plywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did the>water test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywood>is scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As the>book predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece but>kindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak in as>well either.>>Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the>25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without this>scuffing?>>Concerned,>>Richard>>>==>http://www.wrld.com/w3builder>Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com:>http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: "Sayre, William G"
I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA andhave read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood. I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded myplywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did thewater test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywoodis scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As thebook predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece butkindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak in aswell either.Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without thisscuffing?Concerned,Richard==http://www.wrld.com/w3builderNow you can buy my CD at MP3.com:http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd ... __________
I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA andhave read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood. I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded myplywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did thewater test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywoodis scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As thebook predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece butkindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak in aswell either.Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without thisscuffing?Concerned,Richard==http://www.wrld.com/w3builderNow you can buy my CD at MP3.com:http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd ... __________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By:> Richard DeCosta[SMTP:aircamper(at)yahoo.com]
Only my opinion but before I scrapped all 25 I would do some destructive testingon one and see if I thought it was up to snuff (does material rip away fromthe solid member for example).But then my opinion is only that!Bill> ----------
Only my opinion but before I scrapped all 25 I would do some destructive testingon one and see if I thought it was up to snuff (does material rip away fromthe solid member for example).But then my opinion is only that!Bill> ----------
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?>Sorry guys, but i feel I have to put my two cents worth in>on this, too. Richard, if you are to do destructive>testing, do it right and controlled. I like the idea of>placing them on mock spars. But the dancing on the 2x4, I>don't. You want to establish if the ribs will safely carry>the wing loads. The 2x4 does not spread the load, it>concentrates it. You need to determine the load strength of>the wing. I don't recall what the wing is rated for, I>think it is +4 g's -1g. You can find it on Grant's page.>Then establish the wing loading (lbs/sqft). Now line the>ribs on the mock spars and cover them. You can use an old>bed sheet and probably latex paint. This is not important,>as you are trying to establish a minimum (threshold)>number. After the test bed is stretched, load the panel>with bags of sand. The amount of weight you add is a simple>calculation. e.g. if the loading is 5 lb/sqft, stressed 4g+>1g- and you have a 20 sqft test area you load a minimum 400>lbs evenly across the surface. Actually you want to take it>beyond that. (You can keep adding weight till it fails and>then you know how well it is built). Another test you can>do is if you get to, say 500 lbs, remove the weight and flip>it over and try the other side. By all means, if it fails>prematurely, examine the pieces and identify the failure.>Now here is the kicker. If you look closely at the blue>prints, the ribs are designed to rest on the main spars,>the truss work on the ribs between the spars will make for a>very strong design. I would be curious where that rib>failed, but it may take a lot of sand. Piece of mind is>much better than pieces of debris on the ground. Remember,>you are going to bet your life on it.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?>Sorry guys, but i feel I have to put my two cents worth in>on this, too. Richard, if you are to do destructive>testing, do it right and controlled. I like the idea of>placing them on mock spars. But the dancing on the 2x4, I>don't. You want to establish if the ribs will safely carry>the wing loads. The 2x4 does not spread the load, it>concentrates it. You need to determine the load strength of>the wing. I don't recall what the wing is rated for, I>think it is +4 g's -1g. You can find it on Grant's page.>Then establish the wing loading (lbs/sqft). Now line the>ribs on the mock spars and cover them. You can use an old>bed sheet and probably latex paint. This is not important,>as you are trying to establish a minimum (threshold)>number. After the test bed is stretched, load the panel>with bags of sand. The amount of weight you add is a simple>calculation. e.g. if the loading is 5 lb/sqft, stressed 4g+>1g- and you have a 20 sqft test area you load a minimum 400>lbs evenly across the surface. Actually you want to take it>beyond that. (You can keep adding weight till it fails and>then you know how well it is built). Another test you can>do is if you get to, say 500 lbs, remove the weight and flip>it over and try the other side. By all means, if it fails>prematurely, examine the pieces and identify the failure.>Now here is the kicker. If you look closely at the blue>prints, the ribs are designed to rest on the main spars,>the truss work on the ribs between the spars will make for a>very strong design. I would be curious where that rib>failed, but it may take a lot of sand. Piece of mind is>much better than pieces of debris on the ground. Remember,>you are going to bet your life on it.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By:> Richard DeCosta
Richard, penitraition is good. Doug
Richard, penitraition is good. Doug
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
Richard; I have built11 wing panels over the years both scuffed and unscuffedgussets. All my planes are low and slows....If you were building a ChristinEagle or monster Pitts Special, then you might have cause for concern whatwith the aerobatic loads. Everything in the manuals stress what to do toachieve "the Max" on finish, weight savings and strength. I would suggestthat you take two ribs of each gusset method (total four) ribs and slip themonto "phony spars" at 12" intervals. Place two 2x4's on top of the ribsbetween the spars and get up there and dance around a bit untill you eitherfall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the WestSystem, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anythingbreaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then nowhave a whole flock of ribs for decorating your Den walls! (I am stillwrestleing with that .zip thing!)Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Richard; I have built11 wing panels over the years both scuffed and unscuffedgussets. All my planes are low and slows....If you were building a ChristinEagle or monster Pitts Special, then you might have cause for concern whatwith the aerobatic loads. Everything in the manuals stress what to do toachieve "the Max" on finish, weight savings and strength. I would suggestthat you take two ribs of each gusset method (total four) ribs and slip themonto "phony spars" at 12" intervals. Place two 2x4's on top of the ribsbetween the spars and get up there and dance around a bit untill you eitherfall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the WestSystem, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anythingbreaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then nowhave a whole flock of ribs for decorating your Den walls! (I am stillwrestleing with that .zip thing!)Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
Richard,Years ago, my brother and I built a replica Eidecker. The ribs weregussetted with mahogany door skins. The glue we used was yellow carpenterglue. Scuffing? Whats scuffing? I think if you try to pull a gussett offone of your rib joints that has been glued with T-88 you will find theintegrity much greater than any joint in the entire plane we built and flewin the early 1960s.One other thing, an illustration with water does not mean that the solventsfound in epoxy resins will not penetrate the smooth, undisturbed surface ofthe plywood. The resins in the epoxy have a far greater affinity for theresins in the wood that will water.Thanks again for the great website and for posting my humble screen saverfor others to enjoy.Ron Gipson-----Original Message-----
Richard,Years ago, my brother and I built a replica Eidecker. The ribs weregussetted with mahogany door skins. The glue we used was yellow carpenterglue. Scuffing? Whats scuffing? I think if you try to pull a gussett offone of your rib joints that has been glued with T-88 you will find theintegrity much greater than any joint in the entire plane we built and flewin the early 1960s.One other thing, an illustration with water does not mean that the solventsfound in epoxy resins will not penetrate the smooth, undisturbed surface ofthe plywood. The resins in the epoxy have a far greater affinity for theresins in the wood that will water.Thanks again for the great website and for posting my humble screen saverfor others to enjoy.Ron Gipson-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By:> Richard DeCosta
Thanks for the advice. I have a couple ribs that i made early on(practice types) that I will test to destruction. After hearing otherpeople's comments I think I am going to be ok. It would be absolutelyheartbreaking to have to scrap a year's work, although I would do itif it meant my ship would be a safe one.Still cant get that zip to work eh? Hmmm... How about I email you theexe file (the actual setup file) thats inside the zip? That is, if youdont mind downloading another 5MB file?Richard---Earl Myers wrote:>> Richard;> I have built11 wing panels over the years both scuffed andunscuffed> gussets. All my planes are low and slows....If you were building aChristin> Eagle or monster Pitts Special, then you might have cause forconcern what> with the aerobatic loads. Everything in the manuals stress what todo to> achieve "the Max" on finish, weight savings and strength. I wouldsuggest> that you take two ribs of each gusset method (total four) ribs andslip them> onto "phony spars" at 12" intervals. Place two 2x4's on top of theribs> between the spars and get up there and dance around a bit untill youeither> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or theWest> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you thennow> have a whole flock of ribs for decorating your Den walls! (I am still> wrestleing with that .zip thing!)> Earl Myers> -----Original Message-----
Thanks for the advice. I have a couple ribs that i made early on(practice types) that I will test to destruction. After hearing otherpeople's comments I think I am going to be ok. It would be absolutelyheartbreaking to have to scrap a year's work, although I would do itif it meant my ship would be a safe one.Still cant get that zip to work eh? Hmmm... How about I email you theexe file (the actual setup file) thats inside the zip? That is, if youdont mind downloading another 5MB file?Richard---Earl Myers wrote:>> Richard;> I have built11 wing panels over the years both scuffed andunscuffed> gussets. All my planes are low and slows....If you were building aChristin> Eagle or monster Pitts Special, then you might have cause forconcern what> with the aerobatic loads. Everything in the manuals stress what todo to> achieve "the Max" on finish, weight savings and strength. I wouldsuggest> that you take two ribs of each gusset method (total four) ribs andslip them> onto "phony spars" at 12" intervals. Place two 2x4's on top of theribs> between the spars and get up there and dance around a bit untill youeither> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or theWest> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you thennow> have a whole flock of ribs for decorating your Den walls! (I am still> wrestleing with that .zip thing!)> Earl Myers> -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Michael King
Sorry guys, but i feel I have to put my two cents worth inon this, too. Richard, if you are to do destructivetesting, do it right and controlled. I like the idea ofplacing them on mock spars. But the dancing on the 2x4, Idon't. You want to establish if the ribs will safely carrythe wing loads. The 2x4 does not spread the load, itconcentrates it. You need to determine the load strength ofthe wing. I don't recall what the wing is rated for, Ithink it is +4 g's -1g. You can find it on Grant's page.Then establish the wing loading (lbs/sqft). Now line theribs on the mock spars and cover them. You can use an oldbed sheet and probably latex paint. This is not important,as you are trying to establish a minimum (threshold)number. After the test bed is stretched, load the panelwith bags of sand. The amount of weight you add is a simplecalculation. e.g. if the loading is 5 lb/sqft, stressed 4g+1g- and you have a 20 sqft test area you load a minimum 400lbs evenly across the surface. Actually you want to take itbeyond that. (You can keep adding weight till it fails andthen you know how well it is built). Another test you cando is if you get to, say 500 lbs, remove the weight and flipit over and try the other side. By all means, if it failsprematurely, examine the pieces and identify the failure.Now here is the kicker. If you look closely at the blueprints, the ribs are designed to rest on the main spars,the truss work on the ribs between the spars will make for avery strong design. I would be curious where that ribfailed, but it may take a lot of sand. Piece of mind ismuch better than pieces of debris on the ground. Remember,you are going to bet your life on it.________________________________________________________________________________
Sorry guys, but i feel I have to put my two cents worth inon this, too. Richard, if you are to do destructivetesting, do it right and controlled. I like the idea ofplacing them on mock spars. But the dancing on the 2x4, Idon't. You want to establish if the ribs will safely carrythe wing loads. The 2x4 does not spread the load, itconcentrates it. You need to determine the load strength ofthe wing. I don't recall what the wing is rated for, Ithink it is +4 g's -1g. You can find it on Grant's page.Then establish the wing loading (lbs/sqft). Now line theribs on the mock spars and cover them. You can use an oldbed sheet and probably latex paint. This is not important,as you are trying to establish a minimum (threshold)number. After the test bed is stretched, load the panelwith bags of sand. The amount of weight you add is a simplecalculation. e.g. if the loading is 5 lb/sqft, stressed 4g+1g- and you have a 20 sqft test area you load a minimum 400lbs evenly across the surface. Actually you want to take itbeyond that. (You can keep adding weight till it fails andthen you know how well it is built). Another test you cando is if you get to, say 500 lbs, remove the weight and flipit over and try the other side. By all means, if it failsprematurely, examine the pieces and identify the failure.Now here is the kicker. If you look closely at the blueprints, the ribs are designed to rest on the main spars,the truss work on the ribs between the spars will make for avery strong design. I would be curious where that ribfailed, but it may take a lot of sand. Piece of mind ismuch better than pieces of debris on the ground. Remember,you are going to bet your life on it.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: "Lee L. Schiek"
Among other comments, Ron Gipson noted:>Years ago, my brother and I built a replica Eidecker. The ribs were>gussetted with mahogany door skins. The glue we used was yellow carpenter>glue. Scuffing? Whats scuffing? I think if you try to pull a gussett off>one of your rib joints that has been glued with T-88 you will find the>integrity much greater than any joint in the entire plane we built and flew>in the early 1960s.I know it's a little off-topic, but I'd love to know more (lots more!)about that Eindecker. Always wanted one.Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________
Among other comments, Ron Gipson noted:>Years ago, my brother and I built a replica Eidecker. The ribs were>gussetted with mahogany door skins. The glue we used was yellow carpenter>glue. Scuffing? Whats scuffing? I think if you try to pull a gussett off>one of your rib joints that has been glued with T-88 you will find the>integrity much greater than any joint in the entire plane we built and flew>in the early 1960s.I know it's a little off-topic, but I'd love to know more (lots more!)about that Eindecker. Always wanted one.Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Wayne and Kathy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?>On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Earl Myers wrote:>>> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the West>> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything>> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then now>>Which "flavour" of the West System's products do you use? I have some of>the 206 and 207 and have tried both for glueing wood. They both create an>exceptionally strong bond, but the viscosity of the glue is so thin that>it doesn't have good gap filling properties. Granted, this is something I>can live with especially when you balance off the ease of use (those pumps>are GREAT) and the lack of odour.>>I have to laminate some 1/8" and 1/4" plywood to form the window frames of>my Christavia and I plan on using the West system product as it is>actually designed for this type of application.>>Ken>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?>On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Earl Myers wrote:>>> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the West>> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything>> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then now>>Which "flavour" of the West System's products do you use? I have some of>the 206 and 207 and have tried both for glueing wood. They both create an>exceptionally strong bond, but the viscosity of the glue is so thin that>it doesn't have good gap filling properties. Granted, this is something I>can live with especially when you balance off the ease of use (those pumps>are GREAT) and the lack of odour.>>I have to laminate some 1/8" and 1/4" plywood to form the window frames of>my Christavia and I plan on using the West system product as it is>actually designed for this type of application.>>Ken>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?>On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Earl Myers wrote:>>> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the West>> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything>> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then now>>Which "flavour" of the West System's products do you use? I have some of>the 206 and 207 and have tried both for glueing wood. They both create an>exceptionally strong bond, but the viscosity of the glue is so thin that>it doesn't have good gap filling properties. Granted, this is something I>can live with especially when you balance off the ease of use (those pumps>are GREAT) and the lack of odour.>>I have to laminate some 1/8" and 1/4" plywood to form the window frames of>my Christavia and I plan on using the West system product as it is>actually designed for this type of application.>>Ken>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?>On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Earl Myers wrote:>>> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the West>> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything>> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then now>>Which "flavour" of the West System's products do you use? I have some of>the 206 and 207 and have tried both for glueing wood. They both create an>exceptionally strong bond, but the viscosity of the glue is so thin that>it doesn't have good gap filling properties. Granted, this is something I>can live with especially when you balance off the ease of use (those pumps>are GREAT) and the lack of odour.>>I have to laminate some 1/8" and 1/4" plywood to form the window frames of>my Christavia and I plan on using the West system product as it is>actually designed for this type of application.>>Ken>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Earl Myers wrote:> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the West> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then nowWhich "flavour" of the West System's products do you use? I have some ofthe 206 and 207 and have tried both for glueing wood. They both create anexceptionally strong bond, but the viscosity of the glue is so thin thatit doesn't have good gap filling properties. Granted, this is something Ican live with especially when you balance off the ease of use (those pumpsare GREAT) and the lack of odour.I have to laminate some 1/8" and 1/4" plywood to form the window frames ofmy Christavia and I plan on using the West system product as it isactually designed for this type of application.Ken________________________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Earl Myers wrote:> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the West> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then nowWhich "flavour" of the West System's products do you use? I have some ofthe 206 and 207 and have tried both for glueing wood. They both create anexceptionally strong bond, but the viscosity of the glue is so thin thatit doesn't have good gap filling properties. Granted, this is something Ican live with especially when you balance off the ease of use (those pumpsare GREAT) and the lack of odour.I have to laminate some 1/8" and 1/4" plywood to form the window frames ofmy Christavia and I plan on using the West system product as it isactually designed for this type of application.Ken________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Brent Reed
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, oil can wrote:> Gezz, I hate to say this...> > After that I roughed up my gussets on a sanding wheel with a few good > swipes, and the joints went from weak, to very strong.Speaking of sanding, I ran across a little problem recently when I had tosand several corners that had been varnished that had been varnixhedbefore I realized I had forgotten the gussets. I was running throughsandpaper like crazy as it was bent over a sanding block at a hard angleand was being chewed up quite a bit. Getting rather frustrated, I lookedfor something else and found some older sanding belts for my belt sander.I sacraficed one for teh cause and cut a section to fit the sanding block.With the woven backing on the belts, they are quite resilient and workedlike a charm. Although more expensive than a sheet of sandpaper, they arestill pretty cheap and will last a LOT longer.Ken________________________________________________________________________________
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, oil can wrote:> Gezz, I hate to say this...> > After that I roughed up my gussets on a sanding wheel with a few good > swipes, and the joints went from weak, to very strong.Speaking of sanding, I ran across a little problem recently when I had tosand several corners that had been varnished that had been varnixhedbefore I realized I had forgotten the gussets. I was running throughsandpaper like crazy as it was bent over a sanding block at a hard angleand was being chewed up quite a bit. Getting rather frustrated, I lookedfor something else and found some older sanding belts for my belt sander.I sacraficed one for teh cause and cut a section to fit the sanding block.With the woven backing on the belts, they are quite resilient and workedlike a charm. Although more expensive than a sheet of sandpaper, they arestill pretty cheap and will last a LOT longer.Ken________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Bill Talbert
This sounds like a great test procedure. But I think that it if you do adestructive test and the joints always pull away with wood, and not justglue, you can't expect any more. If the design is sound and the wood tospec. you can consider yourself in good shape. Correct me if I'm wrong, byall means.Brent Reed-----Original Message-----
This sounds like a great test procedure. But I think that it if you do adestructive test and the joints always pull away with wood, and not justglue, you can't expect any more. If the design is sound and the wood tospec. you can consider yourself in good shape. Correct me if I'm wrong, byall means.Brent Reed-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
I only use T-88! (now). My first two planes were built withresorcinal....what a mess! I haven't used the West system. That comment wasfrom some others that have. T-88 is, in my opinion, the best all aroundepoxy to use. It is gap filling, not runny. Each guy I knew that usedAerolight had some problem with it meaning on large ares not getting enoughof the A & B in the right place causing delaminations. I stay with T-88 andStits (poly fiber) no matter what. For me, that is the best combination.Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
I only use T-88! (now). My first two planes were built withresorcinal....what a mess! I haven't used the West system. That comment wasfrom some others that have. T-88 is, in my opinion, the best all aroundepoxy to use. It is gap filling, not runny. Each guy I knew that usedAerolight had some problem with it meaning on large ares not getting enoughof the A & B in the right place causing delaminations. I stay with T-88 andStits (poly fiber) no matter what. For me, that is the best combination.Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Ken; I used West System to make a new canopy frame for a Stitts Flutterbug andfound that I could change the consistency by adding small amounts offiberglass chop until it was a thick as I needed. It does add a littleweight but fills gaps and is exceptionally strong.John Mc-----Original Message-----
Ken; I used West System to make a new canopy frame for a Stitts Flutterbug andfound that I could change the consistency by adding small amounts offiberglass chop until it was a thick as I needed. It does add a littleweight but fills gaps and is exceptionally strong.John Mc-----Original Message-----
> Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
> > I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA and> have read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24> ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood. > > I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded my> plywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did the> water test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywood> is scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As the> book predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece but> kindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak in as> well either.> > Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the> 25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without this> scuffing?> > Concerned,> > Richard> > > > > ==> http://www.wrld.com/w3builder> Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com:> http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> > I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA and> have read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24> ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood. > > I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded my> plywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did the> water test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywood> is scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As the> book predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece but> kindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak in as> well either.> > Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the> 25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without this> scuffing?> > Concerned,> > Richard> > > > > ==> http://www.wrld.com/w3builder> Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com:> http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> Help... do I have a major problem?
Original Posted By: RdwdSgn(at)aol.com
> Subject: Help... do I have a major problem?> > > >I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA and> >have read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24> >ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood.> >> >I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded my> >plywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did the> >water test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywood> >is scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As the> >book predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece but> >kindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak inas> >well either.> >> >Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the> >25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without this> >scuffing?> >> >Concerned,> >> >Richard> >> >> >> >> >==> >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder> >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com:> >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968> >> >> >> >> > ==http://www.wrld.com/w3builderNow you can buy my CD at MP3.com:http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd ... __________
> Subject: Help... do I have a major problem?> > > >I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA and> >have read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24> >ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood.> >> >I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded my> >plywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did the> >water test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywood> >is scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As the> >book predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece but> >kindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak inas> >well either.> >> >Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the> >25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without this> >scuffing?> >> >Concerned,> >> >Richard> >> >> >> >> >==> >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder> >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com:> >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968> >> >> >> >> > ==http://www.wrld.com/w3builderNow you can buy my CD at MP3.com:http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd ... __________