Original Posted By:>> Mike Lund
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels>$45 for new- sounds interesting. Who has them at that price (hopefully not>somewhere that shipping is gonna cost me $100 ;-> )>>Mike>----- Original Message ----->From: John Greenlee >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 1:36 PM>Subject: Re: Wheels>>>> I used 21" aftermarket Harley Davidson Sportster front rims. Paid about>45>> bucks a piece brand new. Aluminum rims would be lighter but cost more.>>>> John>>>> -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: Mike Lund
Hello Guys, 24" wheels are what Don's plans have on them. Is this the overall,or the rim size? I'm still looking for 21's min.......was told Model-Twheels might work. They are 21" X 4" or 21" X 4.5" I am told. Are these air-anchors or has anyone thought of them before? DannyMacP.S. Have a good holiday.________________________________________________________________________________
Hello Guys, 24" wheels are what Don's plans have on them. Is this the overall,or the rim size? I'm still looking for 21's min.......was told Model-Twheels might work. They are 21" X 4" or 21" X 4.5" I am told. Are these air-anchors or has anyone thought of them before? DannyMacP.S. Have a good holiday.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Michael Conkling
I am using 21" motorcycly rims- I havent got a clue what they are off of, Ijust called the local bike wrecker and told him I wanted 2 matching spokedfront rims, 20" or larger. He called me back today and said $75 (cdn) apiece for excellent condition, $50 for need some work types- I'll be pickingthem up next saturday.Mike________________________________________________________________________________
I am using 21" motorcycly rims- I havent got a clue what they are off of, Ijust called the local bike wrecker and told him I wanted 2 matching spokedfront rims, 20" or larger. He called me back today and said $75 (cdn) apiece for excellent condition, $50 for need some work types- I'll be pickingthem up next saturday.Mike________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: WheelsJohn, do you remember the brand/cost of the wheels you saw?Robert H.I was looking at some new ones the>other day that had disk brakes.>John Mc>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: WheelsJohn, do you remember the brand/cost of the wheels you saw?Robert H.I was looking at some new ones the>other day that had disk brakes.>John Mc>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Danny, In the twenties, alot of automotive tires were measured by the outsidediameter and width. We use the inside diameter now. The Model T wheels wouldbe too heavy (IMHOP). Keep looking for motocross or dirt bike wheels fromabout a 125 to 250 cc bike, they will be about as close as you can get tothe overall size of the original wheels. I was looking at some new ones theother day that had disk brakes.John Mc________________________________________________________________________________
Danny, In the twenties, alot of automotive tires were measured by the outsidediameter and width. We use the inside diameter now. The Model T wheels wouldbe too heavy (IMHOP). Keep looking for motocross or dirt bike wheels fromabout a 125 to 250 cc bike, they will be about as close as you can get tothe overall size of the original wheels. I was looking at some new ones theother day that had disk brakes.John Mc________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Mike Lund
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels>I am using 21" motorcycly rims- I havent got a clue what they are off of, I>just called the local bike wrecker and told him I wanted 2 matching spoked>front rims, 20" or larger. He called me back today and said $75 (cdn) a>piece for excellent condition, $50 for need some work types- I'll bepicking>them up next saturday.>>Mike>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels>I am using 21" motorcycly rims- I havent got a clue what they are off of, I>just called the local bike wrecker and told him I wanted 2 matching spoked>front rims, 20" or larger. He called me back today and said $75 (cdn) a>piece for excellent condition, $50 for need some work types- I'll bepicking>them up next saturday.>>Mike>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: John McNarry
-----Original Message-----
-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Replicraft(at)aol.com
> I'm still looking for 21's min.......Also consider what tire and tube sizes are readily available in yourarea. Visit a few motorcycle shops. Any large one should have some oldbikes out back for parts. That is how I obtained mine.Tom__________________________________________________________________________________________
> I'm still looking for 21's min.......Also consider what tire and tube sizes are readily available in yourarea. Visit a few motorcycle shops. Any large one should have some oldbikes out back for parts. That is how I obtained mine.Tom__________________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Mike Lund
I used 21" aftermarket Harley Davidson Sportster front rims. Paid about 45bucks a piece brand new. Aluminum rims would be lighter but cost more.John-----Original Message-----
I used 21" aftermarket Harley Davidson Sportster front rims. Paid about 45bucks a piece brand new. Aluminum rims would be lighter but cost more.John-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: John Greenlee
$45 for new- sounds interesting. Who has them at that price (hopefully notsomewhere that shipping is gonna cost me $100 ;-> )Mike----- Original Message -----________________________________________________________________________________
$45 for new- sounds interesting. Who has them at that price (hopefully notsomewhere that shipping is gonna cost me $100 ;-> )Mike----- Original Message -----________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
Robert:: They were on a new Kawasaki Motocross bike. I didn't even look at the bikeprice tag, just thought the wheels and disk brakes looked suitable. I foundthe wheels I used a motocycle salvage yard and paid $40. CDN. each for them.I originally sawed the knobby tread off of on tire to make a smoothtreadless tire. I have since found 21" racing tires for wet pavement thatlook right.John Mc>John, do you remember the brand/cost of the wheels you saw?>Robert H.>>>I was looking at some new ones the>>other day that had disk brakes.>>John Mc________________________________________________________________________________
Robert:: They were on a new Kawasaki Motocross bike. I didn't even look at the bikeprice tag, just thought the wheels and disk brakes looked suitable. I foundthe wheels I used a motocycle salvage yard and paid $40. CDN. each for them.I originally sawed the knobby tread off of on tire to make a smoothtreadless tire. I have since found 21" racing tires for wet pavement thatlook right.John Mc>John, do you remember the brand/cost of the wheels you saw?>Robert H.>>>I was looking at some new ones the>>other day that had disk brakes.>>John Mc________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Alan Swanson
Nearly all dirt bikes use the same size wheels, 18" or 19" rear and 21"front. What i would worry about is whether they can take th eload of 1000lbs landing. They're built to take the weight of the bike (around 350-400with rider). I noticed some others suggesting Harley wheels, perhaps theseare stronger?Eric>Danny,> In the twenties, alot of automotive tires were measured by the outside>diameter and width. We use the inside diameter now. The Model T wheels would>be too heavy (IMHOP). Keep looking for motocross or dirt bike wheels from>about a 125 to 250 cc bike, they will be about as close as you can get to>the overall size of the original wheels. I was looking at some new ones the>other day that had disk brakes.>John Mc>>________________________________________________________________________________
Nearly all dirt bikes use the same size wheels, 18" or 19" rear and 21"front. What i would worry about is whether they can take th eload of 1000lbs landing. They're built to take the weight of the bike (around 350-400with rider). I noticed some others suggesting Harley wheels, perhaps theseare stronger?Eric>Danny,> In the twenties, alot of automotive tires were measured by the outside>diameter and width. We use the inside diameter now. The Model T wheels would>be too heavy (IMHOP). Keep looking for motocross or dirt bike wheels from>about a 125 to 250 cc bike, they will be about as close as you can get to>the overall size of the original wheels. I was looking at some new ones the>other day that had disk brakes.>John Mc>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Thomas E Bowdler
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels>Nearly all dirt bikes use the same size wheels, 18" or 19" rear and 21">front. What i would worry about is whether they can take th eload of 1000>lbs landing. They're built to take the weight of the bike (around 350-400>with rider). I noticed some others suggesting Harley wheels, perhaps these>are stronger?>>Eric>>>Danny,>> In the twenties, alot of automotive tires were measured by the outside>>diameter and width. We use the inside diameter now. The Model T wheelswould>>be too heavy (IMHOP). Keep looking for motocross or dirt bike wheels from>>about a 125 to 250 cc bike, they will be about as close as you can get to>>the overall size of the original wheels. I was looking at some new onesthe>>other day that had disk brakes.>>John Mc>>>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels>Nearly all dirt bikes use the same size wheels, 18" or 19" rear and 21">front. What i would worry about is whether they can take th eload of 1000>lbs landing. They're built to take the weight of the bike (around 350-400>with rider). I noticed some others suggesting Harley wheels, perhaps these>are stronger?>>Eric>>>Danny,>> In the twenties, alot of automotive tires were measured by the outside>>diameter and width. We use the inside diameter now. The Model T wheelswould>>be too heavy (IMHOP). Keep looking for motocross or dirt bike wheels from>>about a 125 to 250 cc bike, they will be about as close as you can get to>>the overall size of the original wheels. I was looking at some new onesthe>>other day that had disk brakes.>>John Mc>>>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
>Nearly all dirt bikes use the same size wheels, 18" or 19" rear and 21">front. What i would worry about is whether they can take th eload of 1000>lbs landing. They're built to take the weight of the bike (around 350-400>with rider). I noticed some others suggesting Harley wheels, perhaps these>are stronger?I have no worries about the landing forces on the wheels. Watch a motocrossrace someday. Those guys really punish the bikes landing just on the frontwheel sometimes. The impact forces must be imense even with the long strokeforks they use. My concern is that you don't just put the wheels on at stockwidth, although Wilbur Graff did just that and has no problems. A motorcyclewheel is not subjected to side loading. but anytime we touch down a littleoff we can impose some side loading on the wheels and gear. Ground loopswould be worse yet. Therefore widen the hubs!John Mc________________________________________________________________________________
>Nearly all dirt bikes use the same size wheels, 18" or 19" rear and 21">front. What i would worry about is whether they can take th eload of 1000>lbs landing. They're built to take the weight of the bike (around 350-400>with rider). I noticed some others suggesting Harley wheels, perhaps these>are stronger?I have no worries about the landing forces on the wheels. Watch a motocrossrace someday. Those guys really punish the bikes landing just on the frontwheel sometimes. The impact forces must be imense even with the long strokeforks they use. My concern is that you don't just put the wheels on at stockwidth, although Wilbur Graff did just that and has no problems. A motorcyclewheel is not subjected to side loading. but anytime we touch down a littleoff we can impose some side loading on the wheels and gear. Ground loopswould be worse yet. Therefore widen the hubs!John Mc________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Eric Norris
Gents; I agree with John McNary about the pounding of the wheels the motocrosswheels. Something different maybe with something the size of a Jenny, whichcoincidentaly, uses the same size wheels as the Piet....... About the width, I got into a BIG discussion about "Vector Dynamics"relative to wheel width or especially hub width vs side loads. I guess Ilost that one! I made my Scout wheels per the usual but not nearly aswide.....we'll see. Notice the WW1 airplanes have narrow wheels......John, if you read this, fire away about narrow vs wide hubs! Wil Graff livesjust over the horizon from me. I have seen him fly in some nasty crosswinds(without a care in the world) and has NO problem with thw wire wheels andthe side loads. As I said here before, I know of two guys that landed wayout of kilter but none of the spokes/rims collapsed altho bent beyondbelief.............Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Gents; I agree with John McNary about the pounding of the wheels the motocrosswheels. Something different maybe with something the size of a Jenny, whichcoincidentaly, uses the same size wheels as the Piet....... About the width, I got into a BIG discussion about "Vector Dynamics"relative to wheel width or especially hub width vs side loads. I guess Ilost that one! I made my Scout wheels per the usual but not nearly aswide.....we'll see. Notice the WW1 airplanes have narrow wheels......John, if you read this, fire away about narrow vs wide hubs! Wil Graff livesjust over the horizon from me. I have seen him fly in some nasty crosswinds(without a care in the world) and has NO problem with thw wire wheels andthe side loads. As I said here before, I know of two guys that landed wayout of kilter but none of the spokes/rims collapsed altho bent beyondbelief.............Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: dannymac
>I know of two guys that landed way out of kilter but none of thespokes/rims collapsed >altho bent beyond belief.............>Earl Myers A number of years ago in this locale a Pietenpol Air Camper wasbeing test flown. The Model A engine lost power, the pilot turned backfor the field, landing hard on one wheel with a considerable sidewaysforce component. (some use the term "spun in" ) A high degree of damageoccurred to the aircraft, the pilot was virtually uninjured, themotorcycle wheel suffered a bent rim and spokes but did not collapse. Both pilot and airplane (after rebuilding) have flown again since. The owner showed me the wheel in question and I have not beenconcerned about my motorcycle wheels since. I'm using Honda rear wheels with a large hub and shorter spokes,stock bearing width, on the straight axle gear, copied from Brian Kenney.Tom__________________________________________________________________________________________
>I know of two guys that landed way out of kilter but none of thespokes/rims collapsed >altho bent beyond belief.............>Earl Myers A number of years ago in this locale a Pietenpol Air Camper wasbeing test flown. The Model A engine lost power, the pilot turned backfor the field, landing hard on one wheel with a considerable sidewaysforce component. (some use the term "spun in" ) A high degree of damageoccurred to the aircraft, the pilot was virtually uninjured, themotorcycle wheel suffered a bent rim and spokes but did not collapse. Both pilot and airplane (after rebuilding) have flown again since. The owner showed me the wheel in question and I have not beenconcerned about my motorcycle wheels since. I'm using Honda rear wheels with a large hub and shorter spokes,stock bearing width, on the straight axle gear, copied from Brian Kenney.Tom__________________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels>Just as a point of interest on the subject of motorcycle wheels foraircraft,>when you look at authentic aircraft wire wheels as used in the original>manufacture of a/c vintage 1920's and as far back as Jennys you'll see that>the spokes do not attach to the rim on or near the centerline as with>motorcycle wheels,( except older sidecars) but rather toward the outside>edges of the rim. Because of this, the hubs are also wider than those on>motorcycles. The combination provided pretty good side load protection.>Having said that, I have seen lots of stock motorcycle wheels used>successfully (and a few not so successfully ). If the hub diameter islarge>and you use short spokes at about 9 ga. you should be ok with stock wheels.I>preferred to go with the wider hub designed ( I think) by Frank Pavliga and>illustrated in an early the BPAN by Howard Henderson ) laced to an aluminum>wheel ( $ BUCKS $ ) from Buchanan Frame in L.A.. They've been in the>motorcycle repair business since the early 40's and have done many aircraft>wheels for the antique crowd throughout the country.>>Don Hicks>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels>Just as a point of interest on the subject of motorcycle wheels foraircraft,>when you look at authentic aircraft wire wheels as used in the original>manufacture of a/c vintage 1920's and as far back as Jennys you'll see that>the spokes do not attach to the rim on or near the centerline as with>motorcycle wheels,( except older sidecars) but rather toward the outside>edges of the rim. Because of this, the hubs are also wider than those on>motorcycles. The combination provided pretty good side load protection.>Having said that, I have seen lots of stock motorcycle wheels used>successfully (and a few not so successfully ). If the hub diameter islarge>and you use short spokes at about 9 ga. you should be ok with stock wheels.I>preferred to go with the wider hub designed ( I think) by Frank Pavliga and>illustrated in an early the BPAN by Howard Henderson ) laced to an aluminum>wheel ( $ BUCKS $ ) from Buchanan Frame in L.A.. They've been in the>motorcycle repair business since the early 40's and have done many aircraft>wheels for the antique crowd throughout the country.>>Don Hicks>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Mike Lund
I got mine from a Harley Davidson repair shop (not the dealer) in WichitaFalls, Tx. He had to order one to sell me two. Maybe catalogs for Harleystuff would have them.John-----Original Message-----
I got mine from a Harley Davidson repair shop (not the dealer) in WichitaFalls, Tx. He had to order one to sell me two. Maybe catalogs for Harleystuff would have them.John-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Warren Shoun
Just as a point of interest on the subject of motorcycle wheels for aircraft, when you look at authentic aircraft wire wheels as used in the original manufacture of a/c vintage 1920's and as far back as Jennys you'll see that the spokes do not attach to the rim on or near the centerline as with motorcycle wheels,( except older sidecars) but rather toward the outside edges of the rim. Because of this, the hubs are also wider than those on motorcycles. The combination provided pretty good side load protection. Having said that, I have seen lots of stock motorcycle wheels used successfully (and a few not so successfully ). If the hub diameter is large and you use short spokes at about 9 ga. you should be ok with stock wheels. I preferred to go with the wider hub designed ( I think) by Frank Pavliga and illustrated in an early the BPAN by Howard Henderson ) laced to an aluminum wheel ( $ BUCKS $ ) from Buchanan Frame in L.A.. They've been in the motorcycle repair business since the early 40's and have done many aircraft wheels for the antique crowd throughout the country.Don Hicks________________________________________________________________________________
Just as a point of interest on the subject of motorcycle wheels for aircraft, when you look at authentic aircraft wire wheels as used in the original manufacture of a/c vintage 1920's and as far back as Jennys you'll see that the spokes do not attach to the rim on or near the centerline as with motorcycle wheels,( except older sidecars) but rather toward the outside edges of the rim. Because of this, the hubs are also wider than those on motorcycles. The combination provided pretty good side load protection. Having said that, I have seen lots of stock motorcycle wheels used successfully (and a few not so successfully ). If the hub diameter is large and you use short spokes at about 9 ga. you should be ok with stock wheels. I preferred to go with the wider hub designed ( I think) by Frank Pavliga and illustrated in an early the BPAN by Howard Henderson ) laced to an aluminum wheel ( $ BUCKS $ ) from Buchanan Frame in L.A.. They've been in the motorcycle repair business since the early 40's and have done many aircraft wheels for the antique crowd throughout the country.Don Hicks________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: DonanClara(at)aol.com
This is what I did as well but with an inch narrower hub. Weren't cheap butcut and dried and superior quality.Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
This is what I did as well but with an inch narrower hub. Weren't cheap butcut and dried and superior quality.Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WheelsDel: What about using atv. Wheels. You are already using atv hubs androtors. You can custom order them blank(they will have a small pilothole). My hubs have a 1 3/4 boss. I ordered mine with that size centerhole and drilled the lug bolt holes my self. Mine are 8" wheels. LeadingEdge Airfoils sells skinned 8X21"tall tire's as used on the Kitfox.gives it the old Goodyear Air Wheel look, and nice flotation which couldbe a nice blessing in the event of a forced landing in a soft farmfield. Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WheelsDel: What about using atv. Wheels. You are already using atv hubs androtors. You can custom order them blank(they will have a small pilothole). My hubs have a 1 3/4 boss. I ordered mine with that size centerhole and drilled the lug bolt holes my self. Mine are 8" wheels. LeadingEdge Airfoils sells skinned 8X21"tall tire's as used on the Kitfox.gives it the old Goodyear Air Wheel look, and nice flotation which couldbe a nice blessing in the event of a forced landing in a soft farmfield. Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: fishin
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WheelsDel: I didn't have their catalog, so I never really knew what theycalled them. Since I got their address from an ATV-4 Wheeler magazine Isimply asked about their 4-wheeler wheels. I went with 8" like the guyin the BPAN article. I chose 3" outer and 3' inner half for 6'' with.The outer half seems to have a slightly tapered "dish'' and hole forthe valve stem. The inner half has straight sides giving more room foryour brakes. That's about all I can tell you about them. Also I DIDN'Ttell them they were to be used on an airplane. Let me know what youdecide to do. Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 13:31:58 -0600
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WheelsDel: I didn't have their catalog, so I never really knew what theycalled them. Since I got their address from an ATV-4 Wheeler magazine Isimply asked about their 4-wheeler wheels. I went with 8" like the guyin the BPAN article. I chose 3" outer and 3' inner half for 6'' with.The outer half seems to have a slightly tapered "dish'' and hole forthe valve stem. The inner half has straight sides giving more room foryour brakes. That's about all I can tell you about them. Also I DIDN'Ttell them they were to be used on an airplane. Let me know what youdecide to do. Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 13:31:58 -0600
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WheelsDel: I forgot that there was a choice in thickness. Yes I went with the.190" Still very light. Funny you mention calipers. When I started thisproject, I bought the best Chinese caliper money could buy from Sears.Last week I knocked the off my bench. It now has irreversible braindamage. Should I add this into my construction cost? Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:22:13 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WheelsDel: I forgot that there was a choice in thickness. Yes I went with the.190" Still very light. Funny you mention calipers. When I started thisproject, I bought the best Chinese caliper money could buy from Sears.Last week I knocked the off my bench. It now has irreversible braindamage. Should I add this into my construction cost? Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:22:13 -0700 (MST)
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: "Greg Yotz"
Anyone have a suggestion on a good source for 6x600 wheels for a one and ahalf inch axle?Carl________________________________________________________________________________
Anyone have a suggestion on a good source for 6x600 wheels for a one and ahalf inch axle?Carl________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: Kirk Huizenga
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Warren D. Shoun
Warren and Joseph,Just a note of caution: The Honda wheels are probably strong enough even if you don't widenthem. Seriously consider removing the ball bearings and having the hubsbored out for a plain bronze bushing 1 1/2" I.D.. The wheels I built are 21"dirt bike wheels and that is the method used. The larger diameter tube axle0.090" wall 4130 is much stronger in bending moments than the solid 19mmaxle the bike uses. The bike axle is designed to be supported on both sidesby the fork ends. The aircraft application supports the wheel from one sideonly. I suspect you would find the axles bending even at 7/8" dia. solid.The tube axle has plates welded to it that the backing plates of themotorcycle brakes are bolted to an aluminum thrust washer fits between thebacking plate and hub. On the outside of the bushed wheel hub I used athreaded nut 1 1/2" 16 and it allows for the adjustment of end play. Ididn't worry about grease seals as the wheel revolve slowly at Piet speedsand are easy to remove clean and relube. The next biggest problem is to stopthe axle rotation from braking if using a straight axle. See Mike Cuy'ssolution on the Aircamper website.John Mc----- Original Message -----
Warren and Joseph,Just a note of caution: The Honda wheels are probably strong enough even if you don't widenthem. Seriously consider removing the ball bearings and having the hubsbored out for a plain bronze bushing 1 1/2" I.D.. The wheels I built are 21"dirt bike wheels and that is the method used. The larger diameter tube axle0.090" wall 4130 is much stronger in bending moments than the solid 19mmaxle the bike uses. The bike axle is designed to be supported on both sidesby the fork ends. The aircraft application supports the wheel from one sideonly. I suspect you would find the axles bending even at 7/8" dia. solid.The tube axle has plates welded to it that the backing plates of themotorcycle brakes are bolted to an aluminum thrust washer fits between thebacking plate and hub. On the outside of the bushed wheel hub I used athreaded nut 1 1/2" 16 and it allows for the adjustment of end play. Ididn't worry about grease seals as the wheel revolve slowly at Piet speedsand are easy to remove clean and relube. The next biggest problem is to stopthe axle rotation from braking if using a straight axle. See Mike Cuy'ssolution on the Aircamper website.John Mc----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Warren D. Shoun
Hi Warren Just curious what method did you use to compare the axle strength?John----- Original Message -----
Hi Warren Just curious what method did you use to compare the axle strength?John----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: "Warren D. Shoun"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
Original Posted By: Warren D. Shoun
Thanks Warren Now you've got me thinking some more. I still have some 090 wall 1.54130 and think I'll try your test myself. If it fails too some I'll tryinstalling a vertical stiffener inside the tube. However one can't continuereenforcing everything or soon the tank won't fly!John----- Original Message -----
Thanks Warren Now you've got me thinking some more. I still have some 090 wall 1.54130 and think I'll try your test myself. If it fails too some I'll tryinstalling a vertical stiffener inside the tube. However one can't continuereenforcing everything or soon the tank won't fly!John----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WheelsThe thread on axle strength brings up some interesting questions. areyou planing on brakes? If so you'll need to restrict axle rotation. I think the best ones i've seen add a square length of tubing over andwelded to the round axle, just inboard of the wheel. By adding a yoke ofsquare tubing or strap steel, axle rotation is restricted while allowingthe axle to move up and down. Even without brakes, most guys restrict the up ward movement of theaxle with a cable. so that In the event of a broken bungy you don't loseeverything. What this does is change the bending moment from 56" to about 12"making a hard landing bend much more unlikely. If you land hard enough to bend an axle 1 1/2 x .090 or .120 you canbet you'll have more than a bent axle to worry about. If your going to weld a steel axle into a tube axle then that's theway I would test it. I think welding is going to change the strengthcharacteristics in the weld zone. Maybe welding a plug into the tube that the axle could be threadedinto would work. There's a ton of straight axle Piets out there. I've never heard of abent axle. maybe their just not talking.Ted________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WheelsThe thread on axle strength brings up some interesting questions. areyou planing on brakes? If so you'll need to restrict axle rotation. I think the best ones i've seen add a square length of tubing over andwelded to the round axle, just inboard of the wheel. By adding a yoke ofsquare tubing or strap steel, axle rotation is restricted while allowingthe axle to move up and down. Even without brakes, most guys restrict the up ward movement of theaxle with a cable. so that In the event of a broken bungy you don't loseeverything. What this does is change the bending moment from 56" to about 12"making a hard landing bend much more unlikely. If you land hard enough to bend an axle 1 1/2 x .090 or .120 you canbet you'll have more than a bent axle to worry about. If your going to weld a steel axle into a tube axle then that's theway I would test it. I think welding is going to change the strengthcharacteristics in the weld zone. Maybe welding a plug into the tube that the axle could be threadedinto would work. There's a ton of straight axle Piets out there. I've never heard of abent axle. maybe their just not talking.Ted________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: Theodore Trevorrow
I've heard of one accident where a bungee broke and the axle travelled upfar enough to let the wheel hit the struts. the aircraft groudlooped, nosedover and ended upside down. Mike Cuy's pictures in the landing gear sectionof Aircamper.org show a simple method of preventing axle rotation as well asa length of cable to limit travel incase of bungee failure. I chosse thewiden wheels and the 4130 straight axle more for looks than practicalreasons. The major concern I have is the snagging effect a straight axlemight have if landed in tall vegetation. I guess that is why flightinstructors don't like the "LOW and slow" slogan. The threads on wheels keep occurring, I suppose, becuse other thanengine type and wing position they have the most effect on the appearance ofthe aircraft.John----- Original Message -----
I've heard of one accident where a bungee broke and the axle travelled upfar enough to let the wheel hit the struts. the aircraft groudlooped, nosedover and ended upside down. Mike Cuy's pictures in the landing gear sectionof Aircamper.org show a simple method of preventing axle rotation as well asa length of cable to limit travel incase of bungee failure. I chosse thewiden wheels and the 4130 straight axle more for looks than practicalreasons. The major concern I have is the snagging effect a straight axlemight have if landed in tall vegetation. I guess that is why flightinstructors don't like the "LOW and slow" slogan. The threads on wheels keep occurring, I suppose, becuse other thanengine type and wing position they have the most effect on the appearance ofthe aircraft.John----- Original Message -----
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Pietenpol-List:
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
08:12:43 AMIf you haven't already, check out www.flycorvair.com and thecorvaircraft list server (owner-corvaircraft(at)listserv.usm.edu).Simpler, direct drive, air cooled so no plumbing.Mike dkowell(at)cstone.net (David Kowell) To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: cc: owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Pietenpol-List:engine choise ronics.com 08/27/2000 05:35 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list Kowell)I am building GN 1 and have been kicking engine choises around foralong timenow it is down to E81 or corvair anyone out there flying samePLEASE let meknow about these two choises PLEASE thanks David Kowell________________________________________________________________________________
08:12:43 AMIf you haven't already, check out www.flycorvair.com and thecorvaircraft list server (owner-corvaircraft(at)listserv.usm.edu).Simpler, direct drive, air cooled so no plumbing.Mike dkowell(at)cstone.net (David Kowell) To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: cc: owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Pietenpol-List:engine choise ronics.com 08/27/2000 05:35 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list Kowell)I am building GN 1 and have been kicking engine choises around foralong timenow it is down to E81 or corvair anyone out there flying samePLEASE let meknow about these two choises PLEASE thanks David Kowell________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: dpaul
DaveThat was me at Broadhead. Yes, they are spendy. New they are about $350 each.I got one at a Harley swap meet for $120 and another on E-Bay for $100.Dick ----- Original Message -----
DaveThat was me at Broadhead. Yes, they are spendy. New they are about $350 each.I got one at a Harley swap meet for $120 and another on E-Bay for $100.Dick ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: "Richard Navratil"
Thanks Norman and Richard for your suggestions. I will try contacting thatoutfit in California. Hope they're still in business. I'll also look into thecost of those Harley Wheels. Usually, anything labeled "Harley" comes with apretty steep price. I did meet a guy up at Broadhead this summer (with an allwood fuselage) who was going to use Harley wheels. Thanks again!!!! Dave________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Norman and Richard for your suggestions. I will try contacting thatoutfit in California. Hope they're still in business. I'll also look into thecost of those Harley Wheels. Usually, anything labeled "Harley" comes with apretty steep price. I did meet a guy up at Broadhead this summer (with an allwood fuselage) who was going to use Harley wheels. Thanks again!!!! Dave________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of dpaul
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wheels Hi Dave, There is no problem with the straight axle. The axle is secured to the undercarriagewith bungee cords to absorb impact, just as it was done in World WarI. See the December 1999 issue of Sport Aviation to see an article about MikeCuy's Piet that shows his ingenius solution for handling braking torque (I'musing the same method on mine) with the staight axle gear. With an 85 Continental I don't think you will need the extra 6" on your fuselage.The wing can be moved aft easily and with that heavy engine (particularlyif you have a generator and starter and battery) I don't think you will needto move it much. I have a Continental A65 on mine and moved the wing aft 2-1/2".I did make my engine mount 1" longer than the plans show. Adding a bunchof area forward of the CG can have an adverse effect on yaw stability. APiet doesn't have much vertical fin area as it is. Good Luck, Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC Where NX899JP moved into the paint booth today -----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wheels Hi Dave, There is no problem with the straight axle. The axle is secured to the undercarriagewith bungee cords to absorb impact, just as it was done in World WarI. See the December 1999 issue of Sport Aviation to see an article about MikeCuy's Piet that shows his ingenius solution for handling braking torque (I'musing the same method on mine) with the staight axle gear. With an 85 Continental I don't think you will need the extra 6" on your fuselage.The wing can be moved aft easily and with that heavy engine (particularlyif you have a generator and starter and battery) I don't think you will needto move it much. I have a Continental A65 on mine and moved the wing aft 2-1/2".I did make my engine mount 1" longer than the plans show. Adding a bunchof area forward of the CG can have an adverse effect on yaw stability. APiet doesn't have much vertical fin area as it is. Good Luck, Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC Where NX899JP moved into the paint booth today -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: WheelsHi Dave,There is no problem with the straight axle. The axle is secured to theundercarriage with bungee cords to absorb impact, just as it was done inWorld War I. See the December 1999 issue of Sport Aviation to see anarticle about Mike Cuy's Piet that shows his ingenius solution for handlingbraking torque (I'm using the same method on mine) with the staight axlegear.With an 85 Continental I don't think you will need the extra 6" on yourfuselage. The wing can be moved aft easily and with that heavy engine(particularly if you have a generator and starter and battery) I don't thinkyou will need to move it much. I have a Continental A65 on mine and movedthe wing aft 2-1/2". I did make my engine mount 1" longer than the plansshow. Adding a bunch of area forward of the CG can have an adverse effecton yaw stability. A Piet doesn't have much vertical fin area as it is.Good Luck,Jack PhillipsRaleigh, NCWhere NX899JP moved into the paint booth today-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: WheelsHi Dave,There is no problem with the straight axle. The axle is secured to theundercarriage with bungee cords to absorb impact, just as it was done inWorld War I. See the December 1999 issue of Sport Aviation to see anarticle about Mike Cuy's Piet that shows his ingenius solution for handlingbraking torque (I'm using the same method on mine) with the staight axlegear.With an 85 Continental I don't think you will need the extra 6" on yourfuselage. The wing can be moved aft easily and with that heavy engine(particularly if you have a generator and starter and battery) I don't thinkyou will need to move it much. I have a Continental A65 on mine and movedthe wing aft 2-1/2". I did make my engine mount 1" longer than the plansshow. Adding a bunch of area forward of the CG can have an adverse effecton yaw stability. A Piet doesn't have much vertical fin area as it is.Good Luck,Jack PhillipsRaleigh, NCWhere NX899JP moved into the paint booth today-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hi Dave,There is no problem with the straight axle. The axle is secured to theundercarriage with bungee cords to absorb impact, just as it was done inWorld War I. See the December 1999 issue of Sport Aviation to see anarticle about Mike Cuy's Piet that shows his ingenius solution for handlingbraking torque (I'm using the same method on mine) with the staight axlegear.With an 85 Continental I don't think you will need the extra 6" on yourfuselage. The wing can be moved aft easily and with that heavy engine(particularly if you have a generator and starter and battery) I don't thinkyou will need to move it much. I have a Continental A65 on mine and movedthe wing aft 2-1/2". I did make my engine mount 1" longer than the plansshow. Adding a bunch of area forward of the CG can have an adverse effecton yaw stability. A Piet doesn't have much vertical fin area as it is.Good Luck,Jack PhillipsRaleigh, NCWhere NX899JP moved into the paint booth today-----Original Message-----
Hi Dave,There is no problem with the straight axle. The axle is secured to theundercarriage with bungee cords to absorb impact, just as it was done inWorld War I. See the December 1999 issue of Sport Aviation to see anarticle about Mike Cuy's Piet that shows his ingenius solution for handlingbraking torque (I'm using the same method on mine) with the staight axlegear.With an 85 Continental I don't think you will need the extra 6" on yourfuselage. The wing can be moved aft easily and with that heavy engine(particularly if you have a generator and starter and battery) I don't thinkyou will need to move it much. I have a Continental A65 on mine and movedthe wing aft 2-1/2". I did make my engine mount 1" longer than the plansshow. Adding a bunch of area forward of the CG can have an adverse effecton yaw stability. A Piet doesn't have much vertical fin area as it is.Good Luck,Jack PhillipsRaleigh, NCWhere NX899JP moved into the paint booth today-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Listers, Thanks Chris. Your right, a lot of Piet pilots do have the straight throughaxle with spoke wheels. That's good to see. However, I would guess that everylanding would need to be darned near perfect because there isn't anythingto absorb the impact of a bounce - right? I have a photo of a red Pietenpol called Sky Gypsy 899FP. To me, it's justabout perfect. I've kept the picture with my plans and hope to make my Pietlook very similar. The builder has the straight axle gear and has covered hisspokes with white (aluminum?) covers. What a beauty. I have another question for the list. I plan to use an 85hp Continental onmy Piet. At Broadhead, I saw a red Piet with the engine mounted way out in frontof the cowling. It would seem like perhaps the builder was having to dealwith a weight & balance problem. That's just my assumption. Yet, I see otherPiets with Continentals and they look "normal." From the archives I have seenlots of discussion about moving the wings to compensate for tail heaviness.Thinking that Piets must have a problem in this area, when I framed up my Piet,I added 6 inches to the front just for good measure. I did it in such away that if it isn't needed I can simply cut off that extra 6 inches. I builtusing the long fuse plan. I'm wondering if what I did was smart or dumb. Happy New Years. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Listers, Thanks Chris. Your right, a lot of Piet pilots do have the straight throughaxle with spoke wheels. That's good to see. However, I would guess that everylanding would need to be darned near perfect because there isn't anythingto absorb the impact of a bounce - right? I have a photo of a red Pietenpol called Sky Gypsy 899FP. To me, it's justabout perfect. I've kept the picture with my plans and hope to make my Pietlook very similar. The builder has the straight axle gear and has covered hisspokes with white (aluminum?) covers. What a beauty. I have another question for the list. I plan to use an 85hp Continental onmy Piet. At Broadhead, I saw a red Piet with the engine mounted way out in frontof the cowling. It would seem like perhaps the builder was having to dealwith a weight & balance problem. That's just my assumption. Yet, I see otherPiets with Continentals and they look "normal." From the archives I have seenlots of discussion about moving the wings to compensate for tail heaviness.Thinking that Piets must have a problem in this area, when I framed up my Piet,I added 6 inches to the front just for good measure. I did it in such away that if it isn't needed I can simply cut off that extra 6 inches. I builtusing the long fuse plan. I'm wondering if what I did was smart or dumb. Happy New Years. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
No, you saw NX899FP, the Sky Gypsy that belongs to Frank Pavliga. Minehasn't flown yet (sometime this spring). One of BHP's airplanes was NX899Hand a number of Pietenpols use 899 and the builder's initials. One reasonis that 899 is a very confusing number to read if someone is trying to getyour license after a low pass (as if Pietenpols aren't very recognizable).Mine will be dark green with cream colored wings and tail.Jack-----Original Message-----
No, you saw NX899FP, the Sky Gypsy that belongs to Frank Pavliga. Minehasn't flown yet (sometime this spring). One of BHP's airplanes was NX899Hand a number of Pietenpols use 899 and the builder's initials. One reasonis that 899 is a very confusing number to read if someone is trying to getyour license after a low pass (as if Pietenpols aren't very recognizable).Mine will be dark green with cream colored wings and tail.Jack-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Thanks Jack. Great advice! I couldn't help but notice that my vertical stab seemedsmall. I'm glad you pointed out this potential problem. Concerning thelanding gear, I will look for that article and also study photos I have of MichaelCuy's aircraft. So....you own NX899JP? I've been admiring that airplanefor a long time. I believe I took the photo of your aircraft at Oshkosh a longtime ago but I'm not sure. Too many airshows - too many undated pictures.Will it still be red? Dave -----Original Message-----
Thanks Jack. Great advice! I couldn't help but notice that my vertical stab seemedsmall. I'm glad you pointed out this potential problem. Concerning thelanding gear, I will look for that article and also study photos I have of MichaelCuy's aircraft. So....you own NX899JP? I've been admiring that airplanefor a long time. I believe I took the photo of your aircraft at Oshkosh a longtime ago but I'm not sure. Too many airshows - too many undated pictures.Will it still be red? Dave -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: "catdesign(at)intergate.com"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wow! let me try that
Original Posted By: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wow! let me try thatYou can usually set your mail reader to not display images. In that case the images won't effect you and anyone who wants the images can see them. Loading images to a web server and is a pain so I like being able to imbed images in the email.RHSo keep in mind that an email with a picture can easily increase the size of the message by a factor of 20 to 25. That may not in fact increase the download time by that exact same factor but it will slow it down. That can reallybe annoying.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wow! let me try thatYou can usually set your mail reader to not display images. In that case the images won't effect you and anyone who wants the images can see them. Loading images to a web server and is a pain so I like being able to imbed images in the email.RHSo keep in mind that an email with a picture can easily increase the size of the message by a factor of 20 to 25. That may not in fact increase the download time by that exact same factor but it will slow it down. That can reallybe annoying.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wow! let me try that
Original Posted By: "w b evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wow! let me try thatThe embedded pictures would show up in the archived emails wouldn't they?RHThe problem with posting a picture as mail is that if you aren't on the list when it is sent then you will never see it. If you use a drop box for the pictures then they are available forever. You lose an awful lot of useful stuff by posting it instead of uploading it.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wow! let me try thatThe embedded pictures would show up in the archived emails wouldn't they?RHThe problem with posting a picture as mail is that if you aren't on the list when it is sent then you will never see it. If you use a drop box for the pictures then they are available forever. You lose an awful lot of useful stuff by posting it instead of uploading it.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wow! let me try that
Original Posted By: At7000ft(at)aol.com
No, I think Matt said that the archived stuff will be just the text.walt evansNX140DL ----- Original Message -----
No, I think Matt said that the archived stuff will be just the text.walt evansNX140DL ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wow! let me try that
Original Posted By: Dave and Connie
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wow! let me try that
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WheelsJack...Do you know Bill Beerman in Raleigh?? He and friends are building a Piet.....Carl Vought________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WheelsJack...Do you know Bill Beerman in Raleigh?? He and friends are building a Piet.....Carl Vought________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I've corresponded with him several years ago. I believe he also owns aStinson 108. Never met him in person, though.Jack-----Original Message-----
I've corresponded with him several years ago. I believe he also owns aStinson 108. Never met him in person, though.Jack-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: "John Ford"
Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Hello, I found some motorcycle wheels but didn't want to purchase them with consultingwith the list. They are 18" rear wheels from dirt bikes that measure about24" with the tires on. The hubs are 5" wide which makes me think that I couldget away without having to create new 5 1/2 or 6" hubs. They have brakedrums but I'm not sure whether or not I could utilize them. I don't recall seeingany Piets at Brodhead with this type of wheel or brake system. Opinionswould be appreciated.Dave Paulsen - Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
Hello, I found some motorcycle wheels but didn't want to purchase them with consultingwith the list. They are 18" rear wheels from dirt bikes that measure about24" with the tires on. The hubs are 5" wide which makes me think that I couldget away without having to create new 5 1/2 or 6" hubs. They have brakedrums but I'm not sure whether or not I could utilize them. I don't recall seeingany Piets at Brodhead with this type of wheel or brake system. Opinionswould be appreciated.Dave Paulsen - Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________