Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "Mike Tunnicliffe"
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about me??)Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the bottom of the leading edge=2C how is it held in place while gluing - are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this. Thanks=2CTom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about me??)Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the bottom of the leading edge=2C how is it held in place while gluing - are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this. Thanks=2CTom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
TomNear the bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edgeply.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... ings.htmIf you look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leadingedge into a recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished toshape after the plywood was installed.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com _____
TomNear the bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edgeply.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... ings.htmIf you look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leadingedge into a recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished toshape after the plywood was installed.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com _____
RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
TomNear the bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge ply.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... ings.htmIf you look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading edge into arecess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to shape after the plywood was installed.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com
TomNear the bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge ply.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... ings.htmIf you look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading edge into arecess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to shape after the plywood was installed.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Tom basically what I did was sheared sections of 1/16 aircraft ply at about 9.5"when installed flush with the back of the front spar the ply will be just backof the arch of the leading edge profile. I stapled the front section with 1/4"staples at about every inch or less. When glue is dry the staples were removedand the leading edge sanded smooth to blend with the profile. Hope this helpsand is probably better illustrated by the attached photos.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Tom basically what I did was sheared sections of 1/16 aircraft ply at about 9.5"when installed flush with the back of the front spar the ply will be just backof the arch of the leading edge profile. I stapled the front section with 1/4"staples at about every inch or less. When glue is dry the staples were removedand the leading edge sanded smooth to blend with the profile. Hope this helpsand is probably better illustrated by the attached photos.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "Gboothe5"
I installed 1/4" x 1/4" basswood backing strips with T-88. Removed the nails afterthe glue set. This gave me something to glue and nail the LE material to.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I installed 1/4" x 1/4" basswood backing strips with T-88. Removed the nails afterthe glue set. This gave me something to glue and nail the LE material to.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Sometimes I just can't help myself....Gary wrote:Again, I ask the rhetorical question: How long should a fabric and paint applicationlast on a wood framed aircraft, before it is removed to merely inspect theframe? Ive been told 10 years is appropriate. Gary Grandma Simpson and Lisa are singing Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind" ("How manyroads must a man walk down/Before you call him a man?"). Homer overhears and says, "Eight!"Lisa: "That was a rhetorical question!"Homer: "Oh. Then, seven!"Lisa: "Do you even know what 'rhetorical' means?"Homer: "Do I know what 'rhetorical' means?"Sorry, Gary. Didn't know you were actually looking for a real answer.(by the way, I don't have one)Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Sometimes I just can't help myself....Gary wrote:Again, I ask the rhetorical question: How long should a fabric and paint applicationlast on a wood framed aircraft, before it is removed to merely inspect theframe? Ive been told 10 years is appropriate. Gary Grandma Simpson and Lisa are singing Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind" ("How manyroads must a man walk down/Before you call him a man?"). Homer overhears and says, "Eight!"Lisa: "That was a rhetorical question!"Homer: "Oh. Then, seven!"Lisa: "Do you even know what 'rhetorical' means?"Homer: "Do I know what 'rhetorical' means?"Sorry, Gary. Didn't know you were actually looking for a real answer.(by the way, I don't have one)Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
The fact of the matter is that all solvent-based products are becoming less andless common all the time, and in the not-too-distant future, legislation willprobably make products like Butyrate dope and Polytone illegal, or at least highlyregulated. Look how much metal gets powder coated these days, compared towet paint. Because of this movement towards low VOC finishes, fabric coveredaircraft builders will all probably eventually be forced to use other methodsthan the "traditional" finishes.There will be those who will say that they will NEVER be able to stop people finishingwith dope, but I remember not so long ago hearing people saying that therewas no way that they would be able to stop people from smoking in publicplaces. It's just a matter of time.Luckily there are some people out there like Stewart's who have developed new low-VOC,water-based products, and some homebuilders that are experimenting withlatex house paint. Before long we'll have sufficient real-world experience tobe able to determine just how well these alternative finishes work on a fabric-coveredaircraft that gets stored in an open hangar (or not), and is exposedto the actual stresses of flight, over the long term.Unfortunately, I don't think it's a question of IF, but rather WHEN the "normal"finish for a fabric covered aircraft will be water-based.I'm a big fan of "traditional" ways, but I also can appreciate newer or even justdifferent technologies that are safer for us to use. Saving a few brain cellssounds like a good idea to me. I know I will need to use some of mine, fromtime to time, so it's probably best to hang on to the ones I have.Bill C.(stepping off the soap box)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
The fact of the matter is that all solvent-based products are becoming less andless common all the time, and in the not-too-distant future, legislation willprobably make products like Butyrate dope and Polytone illegal, or at least highlyregulated. Look how much metal gets powder coated these days, compared towet paint. Because of this movement towards low VOC finishes, fabric coveredaircraft builders will all probably eventually be forced to use other methodsthan the "traditional" finishes.There will be those who will say that they will NEVER be able to stop people finishingwith dope, but I remember not so long ago hearing people saying that therewas no way that they would be able to stop people from smoking in publicplaces. It's just a matter of time.Luckily there are some people out there like Stewart's who have developed new low-VOC,water-based products, and some homebuilders that are experimenting withlatex house paint. Before long we'll have sufficient real-world experience tobe able to determine just how well these alternative finishes work on a fabric-coveredaircraft that gets stored in an open hangar (or not), and is exposedto the actual stresses of flight, over the long term.Unfortunately, I don't think it's a question of IF, but rather WHEN the "normal"finish for a fabric covered aircraft will be water-based.I'm a big fan of "traditional" ways, but I also can appreciate newer or even justdifferent technologies that are safer for us to use. Saving a few brain cellssounds like a good idea to me. I know I will need to use some of mine, fromtime to time, so it's probably best to hang on to the ones I have.Bill C.(stepping off the soap box)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
How about the lower part of the nose back to the spar? Does it not need to be covered with plywood? ----- Original Message -----
How about the lower part of the nose back to the spar? Does it not need to be covered with plywood? ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
JP a little more reserch leads me to believe you are correct about the polyuethane,my bad. My test piece was very old and my suspicion is that it was a shellac.As for latex, cuts it like butter.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:07:58 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
JP a little more reserch leads me to believe you are correct about the polyuethane,my bad. My test piece was very old and my suspicion is that it was a shellac.As for latex, cuts it like butter.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:07:58 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Not per the plans. I didn't cover my lower leading edge and most don't.See photo below:Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC _____
Not per the plans. I didn't cover my lower leading edge and most don't.See photo below:Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Hmmm... I wonder if, to get a "clear doped linen" appearance, one could dye thefabric and apply a clear polyurethane finish? (Yes, I know, no UV protection...it would have to be recovered every 3 hours and 17 minutes of flight time,etc...)--------Brad "DOMIT" SmithFirst rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Hmmm... I wonder if, to get a "clear doped linen" appearance, one could dye thefabric and apply a clear polyurethane finish? (Yes, I know, no UV protection...it would have to be recovered every 3 hours and 17 minutes of flight time,etc...)--------Brad "DOMIT" SmithFirst rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: catdesigns(at)att.net
Thanks for all the replies on the leading edge - I think I can sort it out from what everyone told me.Side note in case anyone cares.... I'm working on the center section after hastily putting it together in July. My mother was dying from cancer at the time and we were going to build the CC together. She ended up getting too weak too quick and I kept pushing to get the CC done while she was still here - just to show her. In my rush=2C I'm paying for some lack of planning now. It's nothing beyond repair but it's gonna be a bit of a pain. My father has offered to help get it completed in honor of my mom.I'm happy to be back in the game making some progress on the Piet. 3 steps forward 2 steps back I guess.Tom B.
Thanks for all the replies on the leading edge - I think I can sort it out from what everyone told me.Side note in case anyone cares.... I'm working on the center section after hastily putting it together in July. My mother was dying from cancer at the time and we were going to build the CC together. She ended up getting too weak too quick and I kept pushing to get the CC done while she was still here - just to show her. In my rush=2C I'm paying for some lack of planning now. It's nothing beyond repair but it's gonna be a bit of a pain. My father has offered to help get it completed in honor of my mom.I'm happy to be back in the game making some progress on the Piet. 3 steps forward 2 steps back I guess.Tom B.
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> If those nails really do work themselves out, I am in heap-o-trouble since Iput in about a million to hold that plywood in place.> > Dan Helsper> Poplar Grove, IL. > Yep, just what I was thinking. I drove ~3000 into my wing ribs. Ought to soundlike a couple of maracas on final.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 20:32:48 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> If those nails really do work themselves out, I am in heap-o-trouble since Iput in about a million to hold that plywood in place.> > Dan Helsper> Poplar Grove, IL. > Yep, just what I was thinking. I drove ~3000 into my wing ribs. Ought to soundlike a couple of maracas on final.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 20:32:48 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Do ALL nails in all parts of the plane, the ones not removed after gluing, work their way out. Or only on the leading edge?Ray Krause----- Original Message -----
Do ALL nails in all parts of the plane, the ones not removed after gluing, work their way out. Or only on the leading edge?Ray Krause----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Shad's Piet...
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Just saw a (VERY quick) shot of the Bell's Piet on "The Aviators"....Great show and neat to see a familiar Air Camper=======================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_sp; --> ht= --> ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 07:59:39 -0800 (PST)
Just saw a (VERY quick) shot of the Bell's Piet on "The Aviators"....Great show and neat to see a familiar Air Camper=======================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_sp; --> ht= --> ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 07:59:39 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "l.morlock"
I used these in the 1/4" variety on my wings. I also used several 3/8" and 1/2"nails on my fuselage and tail feathers. Per Aircraft Spruce: Flat, bonderized steel nails, brass plated to prevent rustingand cement coated to improveholding power. Manufactured to Federal Specification FF-N-105 (formerly AN301).Order by part no. There are approximately 9,000 3/8" x 20 steel nails per pound.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I used these in the 1/4" variety on my wings. I also used several 3/8" and 1/2"nails on my fuselage and tail feathers. Per Aircraft Spruce: Flat, bonderized steel nails, brass plated to prevent rustingand cement coated to improveholding power. Manufactured to Federal Specification FF-N-105 (formerly AN301).Order by part no. There are approximately 9,000 3/8" x 20 steel nails per pound.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By:> raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
nails in the rib gussets are not going anywhere. Maybe there is no "pull" on them. Not sure what it is about leading edge=2C maybe the direction of the vibrations they undergo=2C like the leading edge plywood vibrates up and down vigorously in the slipstream that pulls them out. Remember=2C though=2C Aeronca (and Citibria) have problems with the nails in the aluminum ribs into the spar working out=2C and there is an AD to replace them with ringed-shank nails. I guess the vibration up and down in the rib relative to the spar worked them out. I dont know if ringed nails would stay better in the leading edge=2C but doubt it. I'd stay away from nails if possible.Gene
nails in the rib gussets are not going anywhere. Maybe there is no "pull" on them. Not sure what it is about leading edge=2C maybe the direction of the vibrations they undergo=2C like the leading edge plywood vibrates up and down vigorously in the slipstream that pulls them out. Remember=2C though=2C Aeronca (and Citibria) have problems with the nails in the aluminum ribs into the spar working out=2C and there is an AD to replace them with ringed-shank nails. I guess the vibration up and down in the rib relative to the spar worked them out. I dont know if ringed nails would stay better in the leading edge=2C but doubt it. I'd stay away from nails if possible.Gene
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: TOM STINEMETZE
Tom, I drilled small holes to make my nails go in truer and easier. Would that defeat the purpose of the epoxy coating? ----- Original Message -----
Tom, I drilled small holes to make my nails go in truer and easier. Would that defeat the purpose of the epoxy coating? ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
RE: Pietenpol-List: Room For Bungee Cord
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Just measured mine (I happen to be in the hangar at Smith Mountain Lake thismorning). 2.25=94 between the brake disc and the V block on each side, whichallows room for 3 wraps of =BD=94 bungee (and you might be able to squeeze in afourth wrap).The bungess will wrap the way they want to, and will go side to side ifpossible. If you try to wrap them on top of each other and there is roomfor them to go side to side, they will do so at the first opportunity,releasing most of the tension you so laboriously put in them.Jack PhillipsNX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94Raleigh, NC _____
Just measured mine (I happen to be in the hangar at Smith Mountain Lake thismorning). 2.25=94 between the brake disc and the V block on each side, whichallows room for 3 wraps of =BD=94 bungee (and you might be able to squeeze in afourth wrap).The bungess will wrap the way they want to, and will go side to side ifpossible. If you try to wrap them on top of each other and there is roomfor them to go side to side, they will do so at the first opportunity,releasing most of the tension you so laboriously put in them.Jack PhillipsNX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94Raleigh, NC _____
Pietenpol-List: Room For Bungee Cord
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
I know you asked Jim, but "The Aviators" is a program that airs on PBS, Sundaymornings at 8:30. It has been on the air since last fall... a pretty good programabout general, commercial and military aviation. They cover a variety ofinteresting topics... this week they were talking about homebuilding and featureda group working on a Piet wing to describe some of the woodworking aspects.Sponsored by EAA, AOPA and others... always a good show.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
I know you asked Jim, but "The Aviators" is a program that airs on PBS, Sundaymornings at 8:30. It has been on the air since last fall... a pretty good programabout general, commercial and military aviation. They cover a variety ofinteresting topics... this week they were talking about homebuilding and featureda group working on a Piet wing to describe some of the woodworking aspects.Sponsored by EAA, AOPA and others... always a good show.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
That must have been some TINY safety wire! Don't archive unless you want to.----- Original Message -----
That must have been some TINY safety wire! Don't archive unless you want to.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "Mild Bill"
I know this stuff comes up.... butis anyone using tie rods..solid threaded rods for drag and anti-drag wires?i just did an annual on a scout and it seems simple and no turnbucklesthe pitts special uses tie rods with hardwood blocks glued to the backside of thespars and drilled through double nuts and donewag aero has 50 and 56 inch 10-32 rods on sale for $15.. the 56 looks like it wouldmake 3 bays instead of twojust thinking.... about to start assembling the wingBTW i saw the barrels on sale but any other good deals on turnbuckles out there??jeffRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
I know this stuff comes up.... butis anyone using tie rods..solid threaded rods for drag and anti-drag wires?i just did an annual on a scout and it seems simple and no turnbucklesthe pitts special uses tie rods with hardwood blocks glued to the backside of thespars and drilled through double nuts and donewag aero has 50 and 56 inch 10-32 rods on sale for $15.. the 56 looks like it wouldmake 3 bays instead of twojust thinking.... about to start assembling the wingBTW i saw the barrels on sale but any other good deals on turnbuckles out there??jeffRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
It has nothing to do with reinforcement of the fabric.This is a fast,powerful machine that doesn't have anyissues with getting off the ground. The wing couldbe a piece of flat plywood and it would still fly. ThePiet, on the other hand, needs lift, all it can get.Look at that wing profile in a couple of those pics.It's a round nosed, pointy tailed plank.Bernard even had to undercut the bottom of his to getmore lift.So by smoothing the nose profile as much as possiblea little bit more was gained by not allowing the profileto sink flatter between the ribs.Clif> The Brown B-2 "Miss Los Angeles" flew at over 230 mph with the only > reinforcement to the fabric covering being some false ribs supporting an > extra layer of fabric from the leading edge to the spar.> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchi ... otostream/ easier, quicker, and cheaper than fussing with plywood or aluminum leading edges, and lighter to boot. What say y'all?> Bill Frank________________________________________________________________________________
It has nothing to do with reinforcement of the fabric.This is a fast,powerful machine that doesn't have anyissues with getting off the ground. The wing couldbe a piece of flat plywood and it would still fly. ThePiet, on the other hand, needs lift, all it can get.Look at that wing profile in a couple of those pics.It's a round nosed, pointy tailed plank.Bernard even had to undercut the bottom of his to getmore lift.So by smoothing the nose profile as much as possiblea little bit more was gained by not allowing the profileto sink flatter between the ribs.Clif> The Brown B-2 "Miss Los Angeles" flew at over 230 mph with the only > reinforcement to the fabric covering being some false ribs supporting an > extra layer of fabric from the leading edge to the spar.> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchi ... otostream/ easier, quicker, and cheaper than fussing with plywood or aluminum leading edges, and lighter to boot. What say y'all?> Bill Frank________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
I can't remember what they weigh but it's more than wire.At the time I couldn't find any wire ones and these werecheap. In my budget, in other words. I knew I was goingto cover them so I didn't see the modern look as a downside.Clif Never thought about some cast wheels and covers...very cool. (Nice little modification.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
I can't remember what they weigh but it's more than wire.At the time I couldn't find any wire ones and these werecheap. In my budget, in other words. I knew I was goingto cover them so I didn't see the modern look as a downside.Clif Never thought about some cast wheels and covers...very cool. (Nice little modification.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
> Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By:> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil
Don't know about expert=2C but in the case of the Piet=2C the plywood does not add to the stiffness at all. The 1/16 okume ply I used is little better than the cardboard Bernard supposedly used. I did consider just putting an extra layer of fabric around the leading edge and letting the nose scallop like many aircraft do=2C but decided that I would need to add extra nose ribs for it to look right and I did not want the extra weight.Gene> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Don't know about expert=2C but in the case of the Piet=2C the plywood does not add to the stiffness at all. The 1/16 okume ply I used is little better than the cardboard Bernard supposedly used. I did consider just putting an extra layer of fabric around the leading edge and letting the nose scallop like many aircraft do=2C but decided that I would need to add extra nose ribs for it to look right and I did not want the extra weight.Gene> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:> Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up in Sketch Upand cleaning them in my CAD program so I can deliver them to an old acquaintanceI have recently renewed a relationship with. He owns a steel fabrication company,and has a laser cutting machine for his fabrication plant. He said "Howthick are the parts? NO problem!> Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to perfection!"One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut attach fittings, cabane strutfittings and anything else that might be a clearance issue about 1/2" longer(perhaps others can chime in). I know that some fittings made to the plans cancreate minor clearance issues. mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:> Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online?www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that provide this forum for us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you to track build time, photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. You can post an online version to the web and the print version is formatted very nicely and will make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick tool. If you want to see an example, check out my kitlog link in my signature below.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:25:28 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:> Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up in Sketch Upand cleaning them in my CAD program so I can deliver them to an old acquaintanceI have recently renewed a relationship with. He owns a steel fabrication company,and has a laser cutting machine for his fabrication plant. He said "Howthick are the parts? NO problem!> Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to perfection!"One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut attach fittings, cabane strutfittings and anything else that might be a clearance issue about 1/2" longer(perhaps others can chime in). I know that some fittings made to the plans cancreate minor clearance issues. mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:> Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online?www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that provide this forum for us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you to track build time, photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. You can post an online version to the web and the print version is formatted very nicely and will make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick tool. If you want to see an example, check out my kitlog link in my signature below.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:25:28 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "DOMIT"
I use used plastic strapping from parcels, the heavier stuff can be pulled up and it lifts the staples out with it. The glue doesn't stick to it either.Mike T.----- Original Message -----
I use used plastic strapping from parcels, the heavier stuff can be pulled up and it lifts the staples out with it. The glue doesn't stick to it either.Mike T.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "pringljo"
Out lookin for my dog with some help from a fellow Pieter :)cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca wrote:> Isn't that where you can watch your dog run away for> three days? > Clif> > > > Evening flight on the outskirts of Winnipeg.> > 8:00PM and still 32deg C out.> > > > Gotta love it!!!> > > > --------> > Adrian M> > Winnipeg, MB> > Canada> > > > > --------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Out lookin for my dog with some help from a fellow Pieter :)cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca wrote:> Isn't that where you can watch your dog run away for> three days? > Clif> > > > Evening flight on the outskirts of Winnipeg.> > 8:00PM and still 32deg C out.> > > > Gotta love it!!!> > > > --------> > Adrian M> > Winnipeg, MB> > Canada> > > > > --------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
In looking at these pictures, I looks like most folks have used a solid, roundedleading edge that runs the whole length of the wing, and then butted the plywoodup to it. However, in the picture Mike Perez posted, it looks like he justused a rounded rib tip, and wrapped ply around that. How many others haveused that approach? Is this adequate?--------Joe PringleAtlanta, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
In looking at these pictures, I looks like most folks have used a solid, roundedleading edge that runs the whole length of the wing, and then butted the plywoodup to it. However, in the picture Mike Perez posted, it looks like he justused a rounded rib tip, and wrapped ply around that. How many others haveused that approach? Is this adequate?--------Joe PringleAtlanta, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Joe,Unless you want to bet your life on someone else's wing re-design, I wouldsuggest to just follow the plans.Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Joe,Unless you want to bet your life on someone else's wing re-design, I wouldsuggest to just follow the plans.Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Hello Jim---Welcome to the list. The guys are giving you some excellent advice. I've got nothing to add.Do you have a paint scheme picked out?All the best,Mike C.OhioPS-here's a pic of my Piet. A65 Continental, Jenny style landing gear.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Hello Jim---Welcome to the list. The guys are giving you some excellent advice. I've got nothing to add.Do you have a paint scheme picked out?All the best,Mike C.OhioPS-here's a pic of my Piet. A65 Continental, Jenny style landing gear.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
> Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By:> joseph.pringle(at)gmail.com
Yes=2C I did as Michael did. I think the wing is stronger and possibly lighter. Chuck> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Yes=2C I did as Michael did. I think the wing is stronger and possibly lighter. Chuck> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Joe,My Talyorcraft wing leading edge is thin sheet metal wrapped aroundround nose ribs similar to what Michael has done. The Taylorcraft hasbeen flying this way for 67 years flight proven. BrianSLC-UT
Joe,My Talyorcraft wing leading edge is thin sheet metal wrapped aroundround nose ribs similar to what Michael has done. The Taylorcraft hasbeen flying this way for 67 years flight proven. BrianSLC-UT
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Joe,I built my Piet using the British PFA/LAA approved plans from Jim Wills.They include a fully enclosed leading edge using 1/16th ply.There are some pictures on my web site (http://www.cpc-world.com). Look atPage 9 under "Build Log" -> "Building Photographs".I had some problems bending the ply around the ribs but eventually managedto soak the ply over a small diameter pipe and used cargo straps to hold itin place until the glue dries.I had a ground loop soon after completion of the Piet and the wing hit a 5inch fence post alongside the runway. The ply leading edge broke a little, Ihad to replace one bay, but the fence post sheared out of the ground and wasleft hanging on the fencing wires!The Piet wing with a full ply leading edge is definitely strong!!!Hope that helps.PeterWonthaggi Australiahttp://www.cpc-world.com-----Original Message-----
Joe,I built my Piet using the British PFA/LAA approved plans from Jim Wills.They include a fully enclosed leading edge using 1/16th ply.There are some pictures on my web site (http://www.cpc-world.com). Look atPage 9 under "Build Log" -> "Building Photographs".I had some problems bending the ply around the ribs but eventually managedto soak the ply over a small diameter pipe and used cargo straps to hold itin place until the glue dries.I had a ground loop soon after completion of the Piet and the wing hit a 5inch fence post alongside the runway. The ply leading edge broke a little, Ihad to replace one bay, but the fence post sheared out of the ground and wasleft hanging on the fencing wires!The Piet wing with a full ply leading edge is definitely strong!!!Hope that helps.PeterWonthaggi Australiahttp://www.cpc-world.com-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
TomNear the bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge ply.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... ings.htmIf you look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading edge into a recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to shape afterthe plywood was installed.ChrisSacramento=2C CaWestcoastpiet.com
TomNear the bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge ply.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... ings.htmIf you look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading edge into a recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to shape afterthe plywood was installed.ChrisSacramento=2C CaWestcoastpiet.com
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings. > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 688#329688 > > > > > ===================== >=================== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings. > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 688#329688 > > > > > ===================== >=================== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By:> "K5YAC"
> .net>> > Do ALL nails in all parts of the plane=2C the ones not removed after gluing=2C > work their way out. Or only on the leading edge?> > Ray Krause> ----- Original Message -----
> .net>> > Do ALL nails in all parts of the plane=2C the ones not removed after gluing=2C > work their way out. Or only on the leading edge?> > Ray Krause> ----- Original Message -----
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> .mil>> > Additionally=2C and the experts can correct me=2C my sense is that the leading edge plywood provides significant stiffness to the structure. Don't think I'd consider building the wing without said plywood.> > --------> Kevin "=3BAxel"=3B Purtee> NX899KP> Austin/Georgetown=2C TX> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 402#330402> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 08:48:58 -0500
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> .mil>> > Additionally=2C and the experts can correct me=2C my sense is that the leading edge plywood provides significant stiffness to the structure. Don't think I'd consider building the wing without said plywood.> > --------> Kevin "=3BAxel"=3B Purtee> NX899KP> Austin/Georgetown=2C TX> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 402#330402> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 08:48:58 -0500
Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "DOMIT"
>> >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:>> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing>> the metal parts up in>> >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program>> so I can deliver them to an>> >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a>> relationship with. He owns a>> >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser>> cutting machine for his>> >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the>> parts? NO problem!>> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those>> parts for you to perfection!">> >>>> >>>> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut>> attach fittings, cabane>> >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a>> clearance issue about 1/2">> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that>> some fittings made to the>> >> plans can create minor clearance issues.>> >>>> >>>> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:>> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the>> build log online?>> >>>> >>>> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that>> provide this forum for>> >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you>> to track build time,>> >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc.>> You can post an online>> >> version to the web and the print version is>> formatted very nicely and will>> >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick>> tool. If you want to see>> >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my>> signature below.>> >>>> >> -------->> >> Mark Chouinard>> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up ->> Working on Fuselage>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> Read this topic online here:>> >>>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 465#330465>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > >======================>> > &g===================>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> Email Forum ->> FAQ,>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ->> List Contribution Web Site ->> -Matt>> Dralle, List Admin.>>>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
>> >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:>> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing>> the metal parts up in>> >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program>> so I can deliver them to an>> >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a>> relationship with. He owns a>> >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser>> cutting machine for his>> >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the>> parts? NO problem!>> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those>> parts for you to perfection!">> >>>> >>>> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut>> attach fittings, cabane>> >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a>> clearance issue about 1/2">> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that>> some fittings made to the>> >> plans can create minor clearance issues.>> >>>> >>>> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:>> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the>> build log online?>> >>>> >>>> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that>> provide this forum for>> >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you>> to track build time,>> >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc.>> You can post an online>> >> version to the web and the print version is>> formatted very nicely and will>> >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick>> tool. If you want to see>> >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my>> signature below.>> >>>> >> -------->> >> Mark Chouinard>> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up ->> Working on Fuselage>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> Read this topic online here:>> >>>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 465#330465>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > >======================>> > &g===================>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> Email Forum ->> FAQ,>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ->> List Contribution Web Site ->> -Matt>> Dralle, List Admin.>>>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> m>> > In looking at these pictures=2C I looks like most folks have used a solid=2C rounded leading edge that runs the whole length of the wing=2C and then butted the plywood up to it. However=2C in the picture Mike Perez posted=2C it looks like he just used a rounded rib tip=2C and wrapped ply around that. How many others have used that approach? Is this adequate?> > --------> Joe Pringle> Atlanta=2C GA> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 415#408415> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> m>> > In looking at these pictures=2C I looks like most folks have used a solid=2C rounded leading edge that runs the whole length of the wing=2C and then butted the plywood up to it. However=2C in the picture Mike Perez posted=2C it looks like he just used a rounded rib tip=2C and wrapped ply around that. How many others have used that approach? Is this adequate?> > --------> Joe Pringle> Atlanta=2C GA> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 415#408415> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > In looking at these pictures, I looks like most folks have used asolid, rounded leading edge that runs the whole length of the wing, andthen butted the plywood up to it. However, in the picture Mike Perezposted, it looks like he just used a rounded rib tip, and wrapped plyaround that. How many others have used that approach? Is this adequate?> > --------> Joe Pringle> Atlanta, GA> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 415#408415> > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > In looking at these pictures, I looks like most folks have used asolid, rounded leading edge that runs the whole length of the wing, andthen butted the plywood up to it. However, in the picture Mike Perezposted, it looks like he just used a rounded rib tip, and wrapped plyaround that. How many others have used that approach? Is this adequate?> > --------> Joe Pringle> Atlanta, GA> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 415#408415> > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________