Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Last night I began making my cabane fittings for the center section.- After reading how to bend the u-shaped material and the minimum radius needed, I proceeded to make a fitting.- With this u-shaped piece fitting over the spar, I have a good gap in the wood to metal area because of the radiused metal and sharped edged wood.- Do most of you sand the wood in that area to fit the radius of the metal?--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 0#336710le, List Admin.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Kringle"
yocum137 wrote:> Michael, et al.,> > > Just be sure to use the same length units throughout - put everything in > inches . . . . . . .or furlongs.> > Cheers,> Dan> Lets see I make the 60" cord of a Piet wing to be right at .0075757575757575757575757575756furlongsinteresting [Cool]Regards,StanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
yocum137 wrote:> Michael, et al.,> > > Just be sure to use the same length units throughout - put everything in > inches . . . . . . .or furlongs.> > Cheers,> Dan> Lets see I make the 60" cord of a Piet wing to be right at .0075757575757575757575757575756furlongsinteresting [Cool]Regards,StanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
John,I have attached a snapshot taken from one of Tony Bingelis' book showing how todeal with radius' corners in metal. I also added a drawing showing how you mightadapt the idea to your situation. You could cut a metal piece, radius thecorners, and put it in as a spacer. Does that make sense? Maybe some of the way-moreexperienced builders can comment (I am just starting, so I really knownext to nothing), but I saw it in Tony's book and thought it might help.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/scre ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
John,I have attached a snapshot taken from one of Tony Bingelis' book showing how todeal with radius' corners in metal. I also added a drawing showing how you mightadapt the idea to your situation. You could cut a metal piece, radius thecorners, and put it in as a spacer. Does that make sense? Maybe some of the way-moreexperienced builders can comment (I am just starting, so I really knownext to nothing), but I saw it in Tony's book and thought it might help.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/scre ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Kringle"
jarheadpilot82 wrote:> John,> > I have attached a snapshot taken from one of Tony Bingelis' book showing howto deal with radius' corners in metal. I also added a drawing showing how youmight adapt the idea to your situation. You could cut a metal piece, radius thecorners, and put it in as a spacer. Does that make sense? Maybe some of theway-more experienced builders can comment (I am just starting, so I really knownext to nothing), but I saw it in Tony's book and thought it might help. I thinkthat Shad and I are saying the same thing - I am suggesting metal and I thinkhe is suggesting a wood spacer.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
jarheadpilot82 wrote:> John,> > I have attached a snapshot taken from one of Tony Bingelis' book showing howto deal with radius' corners in metal. I also added a drawing showing how youmight adapt the idea to your situation. You could cut a metal piece, radius thecorners, and put it in as a spacer. Does that make sense? Maybe some of theway-more experienced builders can comment (I am just starting, so I really knownext to nothing), but I saw it in Tony's book and thought it might help. I thinkthat Shad and I are saying the same thing - I am suggesting metal and I thinkhe is suggesting a wood spacer.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
Perhaps I will use this method as posted by Jack Textor. With the bending radiusof the lower piece I may have a hard time holding the 3/4 dimension as perthe print for the cabane attachment.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/mat_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
Perhaps I will use this method as posted by Jack Textor. With the bending radiusof the lower piece I may have a hard time holding the 3/4 dimension as perthe print for the cabane attachment.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/mat_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
The Cabanes with the 612 should be very close to the same length because the angleof incident is much different than the Piets, I will be trying differentangles to find the best flying configuration. The same length as the Pietenpol'sCabanes,gives the trim of much forward stick pressure to hold straight andlevel at 70 MPH.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
The Cabanes with the 612 should be very close to the same length because the angleof incident is much different than the Piets, I will be trying differentangles to find the best flying configuration. The same length as the Pietenpol'sCabanes,gives the trim of much forward stick pressure to hold straight andlevel at 70 MPH.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
You guys do remember there's another piece ofU shaped metal that goes in there? Right?Clif
----- Original Message -----
You guys do remember there's another piece ofU shaped metal that goes in there? Right?Clif
----- Original Message ----- Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Just how much bending moment is there at the cabane attach fittings anyway?I would think there is very little; mostly shear load. Out at the liftstrut attach fittings where the wing is cantilevered is where the maximumbending would occur. I wouldn't think that radiusing the edges of thespar to fit the cabane attach fittings would make much difference.However, I'm no structural engineer...Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"San Antonio, TXwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Just how much bending moment is there at the cabane attach fittings anyway?I would think there is very little; mostly shear load. Out at the liftstrut attach fittings where the wing is cantilevered is where the maximumbending would occur. I wouldn't think that radiusing the edges of thespar to fit the cabane attach fittings would make much difference.However, I'm no structural engineer...Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"San Antonio, TXwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
Sorry about that, how about this size...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/no_t ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Sorry about that, how about this size...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/no_t ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
OK... I'd like some input - back to the "grain direction and tightness" topic......in the picture.above, the one that shows the close-up of the pulley, thegrain is nice and tight on the SIDE of the spar, but pretty open on the BOTTOMof the spar. is this OK......!!?!??!???! I have purchased my (well built) wingsand the sparse have the same grain as is shown in that photo..... is thatOKAY...?--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
OK... I'd like some input - back to the "grain direction and tightness" topic......in the picture.above, the one that shows the close-up of the pulley, thegrain is nice and tight on the SIDE of the spar, but pretty open on the BOTTOMof the spar. is this OK......!!?!??!???! I have purchased my (well built) wingsand the sparse have the same grain as is shown in that photo..... is thatOKAY...?--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
THANKS Bill.... it's things like this which make this message board - and yourfriendships as we all move through this - so worthwhile.... Regards..........--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
THANKS Bill.... it's things like this which make this message board - and yourfriendships as we all move through this - so worthwhile.... Regards..........--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
The ideal is what I said before about the stack of paper.Clif----- Original Message -----
The ideal is what I said before about the stack of paper.Clif----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I am assuming that we're talking about the picfrom Rick posted on the 4th, right?If so that is one nice chunk of wood.Also, if you look at the cabane fitting you'll seewhat I said previously. There is a bent pieceof metal (essential for attaching the cabane) inthe channel of the spar bracket that obviatesany need to round off the spar. But I do agree thatif necessary for fit this PARTICULAR area couldhave the edges champhered. Like Oscar says, thestresses here are significantly different from thoseat the outer wing panel.Clif----- Original Message -----
I am assuming that we're talking about the picfrom Rick posted on the 4th, right?If so that is one nice chunk of wood.Also, if you look at the cabane fitting you'll seewhat I said previously. There is a bent pieceof metal (essential for attaching the cabane)
inthe channel of the spar bracket that obviatesany need to round off the spar. But I do agree thatif necessary for fit this PARTICULAR area couldhave the edges champhered. Like Oscar says, thestresses here are significantly different from thoseat the outer wing panel.Clif----- Original Message ----- Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell" > I'm no practicing aero engineer, but it seems to
Idealy, yes. You are flying the wing not the fuselage.That means you have to fly with that chord line atthe right angle for the wing to maintain lift.BUT. In the Piet the nose high attitude is not alwaysan aerodynamic issue but a weight&balance one.Clif----- Original Message -----
Idealy, yes. You are flying the wing not the fuselage.That means you have to fly with that chord line atthe right angle for the wing to maintain lift.BUT. In the Piet the nose high attitude is not alwaysan aerodynamic issue but a weight&balance one.Clif----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
THANKS Bill.... it's things like this which make this message board - and yourfriendships as we all move through this - so worthwhile.... Regards..........--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
THANKS Bill.... it's things like this which make this message board - and yourfriendships as we all move through this - so worthwhile.... Regards..........--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
As others have said, Mr. Pietenpol eliminated all of the trigonometry andguesswork for us by providing simple measurements to build by. The frontcabane struts on Scout are 1" longer than the rear ones and I never worryabout the angle of incidence... it flies just right.The cabanes on my airplane are inclined rearward 3" (at the top) and theCG with the Continental engine is very easy to manage in all configurations.By the way, for years my computer 'wallpaper' was the photo of Don Emch'sPiet with the cockpits full of kids. What a gorgeous airplane and a superbcomposition. Later, my wallpaper was the air-to-air shot of Don's andFrank Pavliga's Piets in close formation. Double gorgeous. These airplanesare so photogenic.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"San Antonio, TXwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
As others have said, Mr. Pietenpol eliminated all of the trigonometry andguesswork for us by providing simple measurements to build by. The frontcabane struts on Scout are 1" longer than the rear ones and I never worryabout the angle of incidence... it flies just right.The cabanes on my airplane are inclined rearward 3" (at the top) and theCG with the Continental engine is very easy to manage in all configurations.By the way, for years my computer 'wallpaper' was the photo of Don Emch'sPiet with the cockpits full of kids. What a gorgeous airplane and a superbcomposition. Later, my wallpaper was the air-to-air shot of Don's andFrank Pavliga's Piets in close formation. Double gorgeous. These airplanesare so photogenic.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"San Antonio, TXwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Oscar,With the A-65, did you use the Pietenpol plans for the motor mount? I have the Pientenpol motor mount plans, but I am building the Sky Scout. Does anyone with the A-65 on a Sky Scout have an idea about the motor mount... length, etc?Thanks,Ray KrauseFuselage and tails pretty well done, sweating on the landing gear, ribs made----- Original Message -----
Oscar,With the A-65, did you use the Pietenpol plans for the motor mount? I have the Pientenpol motor mount plans, but I am building the Sky Scout. Does anyone with the A-65 on a Sky Scout have an idea about the motor mount... length, etc?Thanks,Ray KrauseFuselage and tails pretty well done, sweating on the landing gear, ribs made----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Let me first make it clear that all of your comments are very appreciated and Iprobably would not be building this aircraft if I did not have the expertiseand support of this group. I blame myself for not being clear on the originalquestion and will ask it again as the conversation has drifted to wood grain,motor mounts and wallpaper. Please review the attached pic and tell me if isokay to modify the cabane fittings as I have seen others do. The left drawingis the way called for in the plans and the right fitting is how I have seenothers do it.Thanks so much--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rear ... __________
Let me first make it clear that all of your comments are very appreciated and Iprobably would not be building this aircraft if I did not have the expertiseand support of this group. I blame myself for not being clear on the originalquestion and will ask it again as the conversation has drifted to wood grain,motor mounts and wallpaper. Please review the attached pic and tell me if isokay to modify the cabane fittings as I have seen others do. The left drawingis the way called for in the plans and the right fitting is how I have seenothers do it.Thanks so much--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rear ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
Ray asked:>With the A-65, did you use the Pietenpol plans for the motor mount?Yes and no. The motor mount is essentially to the Piet plans for theContinental, but it was extended a bit and didn't have the plansdimensions to provide thrust offset. We've added shims to do that.The main difference is the extension to put the engine a bit furtherout from the firewall. I don't recall exactly how far it was extendedbut can look that up in my notes if you're interested.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"San Antonio, TXwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 07:06:49 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Ray asked:>With the A-65, did you use the Pietenpol plans for the motor mount?Yes and no. The motor mount is essentially to the Piet plans for theContinental, but it was extended a bit and didn't have the plansdimensions to provide thrust offset. We've added shims to do that.The main difference is the extension to put the engine a bit furtherout from the firewall. I don't recall exactly how far it was extendedbut can look that up in my notes if you're interested.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"San Antonio, TXwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 07:06:49 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Kringle"
Saw it at the National Aerospace MuseumRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Saw it at the National Aerospace MuseumRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Chuck,Well, the simple answer would be that they would need to be extended by whatevergap you end up with below the spar. But that isn't actually true, because forthe cabane mounting brackets to work, the spars MUST sit on top of the bottomcapstrip of the rib (in the centersection, at least). Therefore, if you raisethe front spar, you will need to do one of two things in your centersection- either use a full height spar, or add extensions on the bottom of the spar atthe mounting bracket locations. (this is assuming you are building a three-piecewing).You will also need to do something similar (localized extension on the bottom ofthe spar) at the lift strut attachment points, since there will be the sameissues out there.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Chuck,Well, the simple answer would be that they would need to be extended by whatevergap you end up with below the spar. But that isn't actually true, because forthe cabane mounting brackets to work, the spars MUST sit on top of the bottomcapstrip of the rib (in the centersection, at least). Therefore, if you raisethe front spar, you will need to do one of two things in your centersection- either use a full height spar, or add extensions on the bottom of the spar atthe mounting bracket locations. (this is assuming you are building a three-piecewing).You will also need to do something similar (localized extension on the bottom ofthe spar) at the lift strut attachment points, since there will be the sameissues out there.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
John,I just looked back through the thread, and the only question you asked was whethermost builders sand the spar to suit the radius of the metal. I don't thinkyou ever asked the question you are now asking, and THAT'S probably why nobodyanswered it. :)Anyway, to answer your question; yes, the method you have shown will work justfine. Remember to allow for the extra metal thickness added by overlapping thetwo pieces.Ken,I don't follow your comments about the U fitting that attaches to the spar being"crimped in". The photo looks like a simple 90 degree bend. I don't see anycrimping.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:17:01 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
John,I just looked back through the thread, and the only question you asked was whethermost builders sand the spar to suit the radius of the metal. I don't thinkyou ever asked the question you are now asking, and THAT'S probably why nobodyanswered it. :)Anyway, to answer your question; yes, the method you have shown will work justfine. Remember to allow for the extra metal thickness added by overlapping thetwo pieces.Ken,I don't follow your comments about the U fitting that attaches to the spar being"crimped in". The photo looks like a simple 90 degree bend. I don't see anycrimping.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:17:01 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
JohnUsing two U-shaped pieces was specifically mentioned by Mr. Pietenpol in the originalAir Camper article in the Flying and Glider magazine. I have always wonderedwhy it changes to a three piece design on the Improved Air Camper plans. My fittings are the same as your proposing. Chris--------ChrisSacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
JohnUsing two U-shaped pieces was specifically mentioned by Mr. Pietenpol in the originalAir Camper article in the Flying and Glider magazine. I have always wonderedwhy it changes to a three piece design on the Improved Air Camper plans. My fittings are the same as your proposing. Chris--------ChrisSacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Kringle"
John, the guy who did my fittings did them according to the plans, but he said that if he had it to do again he would make the fitting out of one piece of metal and make 4 bends in it. Seems that that would be wasteful, but it's an idea if you want it. Chuck----- Original Message -----
John, the guy who did my fittings did them according to the plans, but he said that if he had it to do again he would make the fitting out of one piece of metal and make 4 bends in it. Seems that that would be wasteful, but it's an idea if you want it. Chuck----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
Chuck, I'm no engineer but I think that would work and be just as strong as the plan fittings.Now I have to quit talking about it and get to work.Thanks,John--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Chuck, I'm no engineer but I think that would work and be just as strong as the plan fittings.Now I have to quit talking about it and get to work.Thanks,John--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Has this been tried on a Piet?
Original Posted By: "Tom Bernie"
Looks like it might work, but I don't like the looks of it. C Do not archive----- Original Message -----
Looks like it might work, but I don't like the looks of it. C Do not archive----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Has this been tried on a Piet?
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Chris,You are right about the FGM. The article mentions these brackets, and the plansfrom the FGM also show it that way.Another thing that makes me scratch my head is the fact that these brackets aredrawn and detailed twice in the plans (on drawing #4 and again on drawing #5).My guess is that when the tab was added to tie in the diagonal cable bracing, the"blank" that would need to be cut out for the lower U channel would becomea lot more difficult to fabricate. By making the lower ears as separate pieces,and welding them to the upper U channel, the parts are a lot simpler to cutout.However, when the diagonal cable bracing is replaced by the diagonal tube bracing,the need for the tab is eliminated, making the bottom U channel easy to cutonce again.>From a strength and safety point of view, the two U channels is superior to thewelded tabs.I'll be making mine from two U channels.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fgm_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Has this been tried on a Piet?
Chris,You are right about the FGM. The article mentions these brackets, and the plansfrom the FGM also show it that way.Another thing that makes me scratch my head is the fact that these brackets aredrawn and detailed twice in the plans (on drawing #4 and again on drawing #5).My guess is that when the tab was added to tie in the diagonal cable bracing, the"blank" that would need to be cut out for the lower U channel would becomea lot more difficult to fabricate. By making the lower ears as separate pieces,and welding them to the upper U channel, the parts are a lot simpler to cutout.However, when the diagonal cable bracing is replaced by the diagonal tube bracing,the need for the tab is eliminated, making the bottom U channel easy to cutonce again.>From a strength and safety point of view, the two U channels is superior to thewelded tabs.I'll be making mine from two U channels.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fgm_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Has this been tried on a Piet?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Has WHAT been tried on a Piet?enclosed passenger cabin?crazy wooden tailskid?flying a hang glider overhead?or is it the airfoil shaped struts?I believe this model (CF) was Bellanca's first of his many designs to use the "flyingstruts".Look at the undercamber on that wing!Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:31:43 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Has WHAT been tried on a Piet?enclosed passenger cabin?crazy wooden tailskid?flying a hang glider overhead?or is it the airfoil shaped struts?I believe this model (CF) was Bellanca's first of his many designs to use the "flyingstruts".Look at the undercamber on that wing!Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:31:43 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Ray Krause"
Nice to see all this good ifitting inormation.... Sorry John to divert down a bunny trail there in the middle of the thread - I couldnot figure how to re-post the photo to a new thread from my Droid.--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Nice to see all this good ifitting inormation.... Sorry John to divert down a bunny trail there in the middle of the thread - I couldnot figure how to re-post the photo to a new thread from my Droid.--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental motor mount
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Oscar,Thanks for the thoughts. With the Sky Scout, there is only the Ford motor mount plans. The Continental mount plans came with the Air Camper plans. The Sky Scout is shorter, don't remember how much, and the wing is the same as the Air Camper. I may just have to wait till I am closer to that point to think about the mount length. It seems that the mount plans I have will line up nicely with the fittings on the firewall of the Sky Scout.Ray----- Original Message -----
Oscar,Thanks for the thoughts. With the Sky Scout, there is only the Ford motor mount plans. The Continental mount plans came with the Air Camper plans. The Sky Scout is shorter, don't remember how much, and the wing is the same as the Air Camper. I may just have to wait till I am closer to that point to think about the mount length. It seems that the mount plans I have will line up nicely with the fittings on the firewall of the Sky Scout.Ray----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Kringle"
The interlocking U-shape is how it was done on NX18235 and is good for peace of mind if you are an inexperienced welder.I would suggest using a Scotchbrite deburring wheel to soften the sharp edges of the fittings where they come in contact.It is also good practice to polish the edges of the steel prior to bending. This will make the fittings less prone to cracking.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
The interlocking U-shape is how it was done on NX18235 and is good for peace of mind if you are an inexperienced welder.I would suggest using a Scotchbrite deburring wheel to soften the sharp edges of the fittings where they come in contact.It is also good practice to polish the edges of the steel prior to bending. This will make the fittings less prone to cracking.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Pietenpol Gathering june 18
Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
Hi Shad,Unfortunately I won't make it this year. -The excessive rain this Spring makes farm work a priority now. -With any luck we'll still have a decent year.Kip GardnerOn Jun 6, 2011, at 10:38 AM, shad bell wrote:Fellow Pieters, Just a reminder of my fly-in on saturday june 18 here at Chapman Memorial Field (6CM) in Centerburg Ohio.- It will be a pot luck style event and tent camping here on friday and saturday nights.- Hope to see many as many of you Ohio area Guys as possible.- Drive ins are welcome, and parking shouldn't be a problem.- Please contact me by email, on list or off, if you plan on attending. I will give out pattern instructions, driving directions etc.-Hope to see Y'all here, Sat June 18Shadhref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... __________
Hi Shad,Unfortunately I won't make it this year. -The excessive rain this Spring makes farm work a priority now. -With any luck we'll still have a decent year.Kip GardnerOn Jun 6, 2011, at 10:38 AM, shad bell wrote:Fellow Pieters, Just a reminder of my fly-in on saturday june 18 here at Chapman Memorial Field (6CM) in Centerburg Ohio.- It will be a pot luck style event and tent camping here on friday and saturday nights.- Hope to see many as many of you Ohio area Guys as possible.- Drive ins are welcome, and parking shouldn't be a problem.- Please contact me by email, on list or off, if you plan on attending. I will give out pattern instructions, driving directions etc.-Hope to see Y'all here, Sat June 18Shadhref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Hi Shad,Unfortunately I won't make it this year. The excessive rain this Spring makes farm work a priority now. With any luck we'll still have a decent year.Kip GardnerOn Jun 6, 2011, at 10:38 AM, shad bell wrote:>>> Fellow Pieters, Just a reminder of my fly-in on saturday june 18 > here at Chapman Memorial Field (6CM) in Centerburg Ohio. It will be > a pot luck style event and tent camping here on friday and saturday > nights. Hope to see many as many of you Ohio area Guys as > possible. Drive ins are welcome, and parking shouldn't be a > problem. Please contact me by email, on list or off, if you plan on > attending. I will give out pattern instructions, driving directions > etc.>> Hope to see Y'all here, Sat June 18> Shad>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Hi Shad,Unfortunately I won't make it this year. The excessive rain this Spring makes farm work a priority now. With any luck we'll still have a decent year.Kip GardnerOn Jun 6, 2011, at 10:38 AM, shad bell wrote:>>> Fellow Pieters, Just a reminder of my fly-in on saturday june 18 > here at Chapman Memorial Field (6CM) in Centerburg Ohio. It will be > a pot luck style event and tent camping here on friday and saturday > nights. Hope to see many as many of you Ohio area Guys as > possible. Drive ins are welcome, and parking shouldn't be a > problem. Please contact me by email, on list or off, if you plan on > attending. I will give out pattern instructions, driving directions > etc.>> Hope to see Y'all here, Sat June 18> Shad>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
I am struggling with how to bend my cabane strut fittings. I've looked in thearchives using the search engine and still haven't come up with any ideas. It is obvious to me that I can make one 90 degree bend with my vise brake, butmaking the second bend so close to the first on a part that is nearly 3" longisn't possible with that type of tool. So I thought that I might initiate bothbends to whatever degree possible and use a bending block to beat them to 90degrees, but without being firmly clamped on the adjacent side this only makesfor a bowed bend. My next thought was to heat them with my torch and applythe same force (hammer), but I don't like that idea. Small, cherry red fittingsthat need to be positioned properly on a form once hot... yeah, I'm probablygoing to get burned. I've see some photos of other's completed fittings and they don't look like theyhave been heated. I looked at Jack Textor's fittings in a recent thread andthey look very nice. I also plan to do the overlapping fittings rather thanthe 3-piece welded fittings, but again, the main issue is making the bends onthe long pieces. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/caba ... __________
I am struggling with how to bend my cabane strut fittings. I've looked in thearchives using the search engine and still haven't come up with any ideas. It is obvious to me that I can make one 90 degree bend with my vise brake, butmaking the second bend so close to the first on a part that is nearly 3" longisn't possible with that type of tool. So I thought that I might initiate bothbends to whatever degree possible and use a bending block to beat them to 90degrees, but without being firmly clamped on the adjacent side this only makesfor a bowed bend. My next thought was to heat them with my torch and applythe same force (hammer), but I don't like that idea. Small, cherry red fittingsthat need to be positioned properly on a form once hot... yeah, I'm probablygoing to get burned. I've see some photos of other's completed fittings and they don't look like theyhave been heated. I looked at Jack Textor's fittings in a recent thread andthey look very nice. I also plan to do the overlapping fittings rather thanthe 3-piece welded fittings, but again, the main issue is making the bends onthe long pieces. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/caba ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
The mechanic who did my fittings did them the way the plans call for -- bending the long piece 90 degrees in two places, making the two tabs in separate pieces, and welding them to the long, U shaped piece. He told me later that if he had done it his way he would have made it in one piece of metal with four bends (five, counting the 45 degree bend). chuck----- Original Message -----
The mechanic who did my fittings did them the way the plans call for -- bending the long piece 90 degrees in two places, making the two tabs in separate pieces, and welding them to the long, U shaped piece. He told me later that if he had done it his way he would have made it in one piece of metal with four bends (five, counting the 45 degree bend). chuck----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Finally, another meaningful and encouraging static,A 2006 study found that the average American walks about 900 miles a year.Another study found that Americans drink an average of 22 gallons of beer a year.That means, on average, Americans get about 41 miles per gallon.Not Bad!!! Maybe I should start drinking beer again?--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Finally, another meaningful and encouraging static,A 2006 study found that the average American walks about 900 miles a year.Another study found that Americans drink an average of 22 gallons of beer a year.That means, on average, Americans get about 41 miles per gallon.Not Bad!!! Maybe I should start drinking beer again?--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
Billy McCaskill wrote:> Looks like if you had a bending block about 3" long and 15/16" thick, you couldclamp the bracket around it after the 1st 90 degree bend so that you couldhammer it around to get the 2nd 90 degree bend you need. That's what I wouldtry to do, can't think of any easier way to do it besides that.I tried that with similar results to the second method I mentioned, using a bendingblock... but I end up with a rounded bend instead of a boxed fitting. Iguess I didn't clamp the part tightly enough or something.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:31:48 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Billy McCaskill wrote:> Looks like if you had a bending block about 3" long and 15/16" thick, you couldclamp the bracket around it after the 1st 90 degree bend so that you couldhammer it around to get the 2nd 90 degree bend you need. That's what I wouldtry to do, can't think of any easier way to do it besides that.I tried that with similar results to the second method I mentioned, using a bendingblock... but I end up with a rounded bend instead of a boxed fitting. Iguess I didn't clamp the part tightly enough or something.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:31:48 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Gboothe5"
Seems that I'm on the right track based on the initial comments... I guess I justneed to work on my technique a bit.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Seems that I'm on the right track based on the initial comments... I guess I justneed to work on my technique a bit.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
That's exactly how I did mine, using C-clamps and the ever useful benchvise.Gary-----Original Message-----
That's exactly how I did mine, using C-clamps and the ever useful benchvise.Gary-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: santiago morete
Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: shad bell
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
Just looking through some old Piet pictures and thought someone might enjoythese. The first picture shows all the parts to build 6 Corvair engines. Note thetable is divided into sections with blue tape and well organized. Threeminutes after this picture was taken, all hell broke loose and the buildingbegan. I don't have the heart to show the picture of how the shop lookedafter parts started flying together, but it looked like a poorly organizeddisaster area.The second picture is of Doc Mosher's visit to the Big Piet Factory inCarrollton, Ga.Barry DavisNX973BP________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Just looking through some old Piet pictures and thought someone might enjoythese. The first picture shows all the parts to build 6 Corvair engines. Note thetable is divided into sections with blue tape and well organized. Threeminutes after this picture was taken, all hell broke loose and the buildingbegan. I don't have the heart to show the picture of how the shop lookedafter parts started flying together, but it looked like a poorly organizeddisaster area.The second picture is of Doc Mosher's visit to the Big Piet Factory inCarrollton, Ga.Barry DavisNX973BP________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Excellent link, Santiago. I think I remember reading something very similar tothis method in the Bingelis books...--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Excellent link, Santiago. I think I remember reading something very similar tothis method in the Bingelis books...--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Jack"
[quote="moretesantiago(at)yahoo.c"]or.... http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1858922506 (http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1858922506) > That is an interesting approach Santiago. Thanks!--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
[quote="moretesantiago(at)yahoo.c"]or.... http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1858922506 (http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1858922506) > That is an interesting approach Santiago. Thanks!--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mark,I pre-bent each side as far as possible then finished off as seen in theattachment.JackDSM-----Original Message-----
Mark,I pre-bent each side as far as possible then finished off as seen in theattachment.JackDSM-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
MarkYes, you need to build bending blocks for this fitting. I use some scrap 3/8thinch steel I found at the scrap yard. Round the edge to the correct bend radius.You can see the blocks in this picture.http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chr ... 048.JPGFor this fitting I had to have the blocks hang off the end of the bench vice sothe fitting would clear the jaws as it bent. The free end was clamped togetherwith a big C-clamp. It will make sense when you try it. Clamp the long side of the fitting between the blocks and bend the short side untilyou get to 90 degrees. Then bend the other side the same way (clamp thelong side , bend the short). The side will stay nice and strait if you hit thefitting just above where you want it to bend. I found the best way to not damageyour fitting is to use a 1/2 inch brass rod between the hammer and the steel,wood was destroyed to fast.--------ChrisSacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
MarkYes, you need to build bending blocks for this fitting. I use some scrap 3/8thinch steel I found at the scrap yard. Round the edge to the correct bend radius.You can see the blocks in this picture.http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chr ... 048.JPGFor this fitting I had to have the blocks hang off the end of the bench vice sothe fitting would clear the jaws as it bent. The free end was clamped togetherwith a big C-clamp. It will make sense when you try it. Clamp the long side of the fitting between the blocks and bend the short side untilyou get to 90 degrees. Then bend the other side the same way (clamp thelong side , bend the short). The side will stay nice and strait if you hit thefitting just above where you want it to bend. I found the best way to not damageyour fitting is to use a 1/2 inch brass rod between the hammer and the steel,wood was destroyed to fast.--------ChrisSacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Mark,Your answer is in your question. You mentioned Jack Textors' fittings. If you goto Jack's website, way down near the bottom are a couple of photos that showa good method.First one 90 degree bend is made, using the vise mounted bending dies. Then thesecond bend is started, and bent as far as the equipment will allow. Then, thethird leg is clamped tightly between two substantial metal bars, with the bendline at the edge of the bars, and the rest of the bend is completed with ahammer (and possibly a hardwood block or brass bar). I've attached copies of therelevant photos from Jack's site.Of course, the other way to make a bend like that is with a brake press and gooseneckdies, but not too many of us have access to that kind of equipment.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/caba ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Mark,Your answer is in your question. You mentioned Jack Textors' fittings. If you goto Jack's website, way down near the bottom are a couple of photos that showa good method.First one 90 degree bend is made, using the vise mounted bending dies. Then thesecond bend is started, and bent as far as the equipment will allow. Then, thethird leg is clamped tightly between two substantial metal bars, with the bendline at the edge of the bars, and the rest of the bend is completed with ahammer (and possibly a hardwood block or brass bar). I've attached copies of therelevant photos from Jack's site.Of course, the other way to make a bend like that is with a brake press and gooseneckdies, but not too many of us have access to that kind of equipment.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/caba ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Try reading Tony Bingelis' books. He explains in infinite detail exactlyhow to do it. This is true for 99% of the questions you will have as youbuild your Pietenpol.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Try reading Tony Bingelis' books. He explains in infinite detail exactlyhow to do it. This is true for 99% of the questions you will have as youbuild your Pietenpol.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane Fittings
Original Posted By: shad bell