Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
I bought a very nicely made "kit" form Kerri Ann Price a while back. Here'sthe last email I have keriannprice(at)hotmail.comThose Avon tires will work fine. Also ck out Avon "Speedmaster"s, veryvintage as well. I've seen these tires on Piets, so know they work.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Pietenpol-List: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
I am starting my first wing rib, and came across the following website-http://www.2wings.com/m12/faq/wingfaq.h ... 0PLATEThis website is, apparently, is a Builder's area for Pitts Model 12 aircraft. Inreading through I found interesting tidbits of information, but the followingthread really caught my attention. I have cut and pasted it here to make iteasier to read-"I re-read Cory's post, It does sound as though Cory is gluing the sticks together,then adding gussets to each side. This would indicate that the sticks arecustom miter fitted on each end, then glued. This is NOT required on any gussettedaircraft rib. (emphasis mine) The size of the gusset is engineered tohave adequate shear glue strength to transfer the loads and more. I recommendthat the sticks be cut as long as you can to fit the location with 90 deg cutson the ends such that one corner of the end of the stick contacts the adjacentone. Factory Pitts, Stearman and Staggerwing ribs have no inter-stick contactin places relying on the gussets only. Just like the roof over your head.This can save bunch of build time. Ribs built in this manner are still strongerthan the required loads." (emphasis mine)I have three questions-1. Really? Are 90 cuts on the ends of the braces sufficient over mitered ends?If that were true, it sure would save me time, but I also know that the Internetis full of really bad ideas parading as "expert advice". FWIW, I have builtand glued my first rib with the vertical braces mitered to probably within 1/16th.Am I in overkill, or doing what is the right way to construct?2. I am thinking about building my wing ribs using Semi-Circle and Quarter-Circlegussets (I just like the look, although, once built and covered, I won't seethem again). Since they are not the original plans type of gusset, what sizecircle did some of you use for your gussets?3. I heard the instructor in an EAA workshop I attended ask the question, "Areyou building a Timex, or a Rolex?" The point I felt he was making is that youcan build and spend thousands of extra hours fitting tolerences that don't reallymake your aircraft any stronger, or you can build it using good practicesand it will be just fine. That is not the same as "The Fisherman" school of aircraftconstruction, but yet it is a far cry from building a fine Swiss watcheither. I guess that I am asking for words of advice in this regard as I beginbuilding. Comments are appreciated.Thanks to everyone in advance for their advice. I count today in my Builder's Logas the day I began building my Pietenpol. Everything up until now has been"research", and I don't think the FAA or anyone else gives two hoots about howmany hours of research I did. They are more interested in what I built, how Ibuilt it, and (at least to me) how many hours I spent building.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I am starting my first wing rib, and came across the following website-http://www.2wings.com/m12/faq/wingfaq.h ... 0PLATEThis website is, apparently, is a Builder's area for Pitts Model 12 aircraft. Inreading through I found interesting tidbits of information, but the followingthread really caught my attention. I have cut and pasted it here to make iteasier to read-"I re-read Cory's post, It does sound as though Cory is gluing the sticks together,then adding gussets to each side. This would indicate that the sticks arecustom miter fitted on each end, then glued. This is NOT required on any gussettedaircraft rib. (emphasis mine) The size of the gusset is engineered tohave adequate shear glue strength to transfer the loads and more. I recommendthat the sticks be cut as long as you can to fit the location with 90 deg cutson the ends such that one corner of the end of the stick contacts the adjacentone. Factory Pitts, Stearman and Staggerwing ribs have no inter-stick contactin places relying on the gussets only. Just like the roof over your head.This can save bunch of build time. Ribs built in this manner are still strongerthan the required loads." (emphasis mine)I have three questions-1. Really? Are 90 cuts on the ends of the braces sufficient over mitered ends?If that were true, it sure would save me time, but I also know that the Internetis full of really bad ideas parading as "expert advice". FWIW, I have builtand glued my first rib with the vertical braces mitered to probably within 1/16th.Am I in overkill, or doing what is the right way to construct?2. I am thinking about building my wing ribs using Semi-Circle and Quarter-Circlegussets (I just like the look, although, once built and covered, I won't seethem again). Since they are not the original plans type of gusset, what sizecircle did some of you use for your gussets?3. I heard the instructor in an EAA workshop I attended ask the question, "Areyou building a Timex, or a Rolex?" The point I felt he was making is that youcan build and spend thousands of extra hours fitting tolerences that don't reallymake your aircraft any stronger, or you can build it using good practicesand it will be just fine. That is not the same as "The Fisherman" school of aircraftconstruction, but yet it is a far cry from building a fine Swiss watcheither. I guess that I am asking for words of advice in this regard as I beginbuilding. Comments are appreciated.Thanks to everyone in advance for their advice. I count today in my Builder's Logas the day I began building my Pietenpol. Everything up until now has been"research", and I don't think the FAA or anyone else gives two hoots about howmany hours of research I did. They are more interested in what I built, how Ibuilt it, and (at least to me) how many hours I spent building.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Avon tires and Johnson Airspeed indicator
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I have Avon Speedmasters on mine and have been very pleased with them.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
I have Avon Speedmasters on mine and have been very pleased with them.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
90 degree cuts are fine. I compromised and angled mine to give me a little moresuface area to glue.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
90 degree cuts are fine. I compromised and angled mine to give me a little moresuface area to glue.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "cjborsuk"
Congratulations on your first wing rib, Terry. Like John, I miter the intercoastalsbut I've also read that the 90s are fine. As always, the engineers, A&Psand IAs can correct as they see fit - that's my standard disclaimer since Iroutinely say dumb things.I like the "timex vs. rolex" analogy. Unfortunately, it's hard to know what rightlooks like when you're starting. That's why you develop your list of trustedpeople on this site and seek their advice. You also have your local technicalcounselors.Lemme see: "timex vs. rolex," "pole-vaulting over mouse turds," and, "it ain'tthe space shuttle." Not excuses to do sloppy work, but encouragement to do airworthywork and make progress.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Congratulations on your first wing rib, Terry. Like John, I miter the intercoastalsbut I've also read that the 90s are fine. As always, the engineers, A&Psand IAs can correct as they see fit - that's my standard disclaimer since Iroutinely say dumb things.I like the "timex vs. rolex" analogy. Unfortunately, it's hard to know what rightlooks like when you're starting. That's why you develop your list of trustedpeople on this site and seek their advice. You also have your local technicalcounselors.Lemme see: "timex vs. rolex," "pole-vaulting over mouse turds," and, "it ain'tthe space shuttle." Not excuses to do sloppy work, but encouragement to do airworthywork and make progress.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
Take a look at the Help for Home Builders section of EAA.org. There are a numberof videos there building a wood wing. All of them cut angles. I believe youwill find most of the folks here also cut angles. Another advantage to cutting the angles, is you can remove the rib from the jigwithout first attaching one side of the gussets. This allowed me to always havea rib in the jig and two others at the "gusset station". Cleaner and neater.This also allows you smooth the joints out of the jig, which is much easier.You can check out my blog at: http://pietenpol-989cb.blogspot.comOn the gussets themselves, I went with the rectangle. I ended up with 4 differentsizes, but the mass majority of them are 1.5" x 1.0". The other sizes were1.25" x 1.0" - only two of these per side. The other two sizes were specific forthe nose and the tail. Trimmed on the router table. Video on the blog.Good luck and enjoy the time. If time is real important to save, your going tobe in trouble.Chuck989CBRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Take a look at the Help for Home Builders section of EAA.org. There are a numberof videos there building a wood wing. All of them cut angles. I believe youwill find most of the folks here also cut angles. Another advantage to cutting the angles, is you can remove the rib from the jigwithout first attaching one side of the gussets. This allowed me to always havea rib in the jig and two others at the "gusset station". Cleaner and neater.This also allows you smooth the joints out of the jig, which is much easier.You can check out my blog at: http://pietenpol-989cb.blogspot.comOn the gussets themselves, I went with the rectangle. I ended up with 4 differentsizes, but the mass majority of them are 1.5" x 1.0". The other sizes were1.25" x 1.0" - only two of these per side. The other two sizes were specific forthe nose and the tail. Trimmed on the router table. Video on the blog.Good luck and enjoy the time. If time is real important to save, your going tobe in trouble.Chuck989CBRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Didn't really answer a couple of your questions - standard disclaimer still applies:Do as good as you can on the woodwork. I try for 1/32" tolerances. For gussetedjoints I'll go to 1/16". This obviously does not apply if you cut 90 degreeangles on your rib intercoastals.Ask Gene Rambo about the size of the round gussets on the ribs. TLAR tells methat 1.25" radius would be ok.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Didn't really answer a couple of your questions - standard disclaimer still applies:Do as good as you can on the woodwork. I try for 1/32" tolerances. For gussetedjoints I'll go to 1/16". This obviously does not apply if you cut 90 degreeangles on your rib intercoastals.Ask Gene Rambo about the size of the round gussets on the ribs. TLAR tells methat 1.25" radius would be ok.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "Kringle"
Thanks for everyone's input. Chuck, thanks for the advice about time. Flying ismy job, so staying proficient is not a factor. I look at this as a journey, asI said. If the destination is the only goal, you will miss the joy of the journey.I am in no rush.I also saw the three step wing rib process on the westcoastpiet. com website. Ilike the ability to remove the rib from the jig and apply the gussets withoutstaples or nails. So for that reason alone I think that I will stay with themitered braces. I think that I will also stick with the rectangle gussets- easierto cut, and much less waste. I will send pictures as I get a little further on the trip! Thanks again to all.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Thanks for everyone's input. Chuck, thanks for the advice about time. Flying ismy job, so staying proficient is not a factor. I look at this as a journey, asI said. If the destination is the only goal, you will miss the joy of the journey.I am in no rush.I also saw the three step wing rib process on the westcoastpiet. com website. Ilike the ability to remove the rib from the jig and apply the gussets withoutstaples or nails. So for that reason alone I think that I will stay with themitered braces. I think that I will also stick with the rectangle gussets- easierto cut, and much less waste. I will send pictures as I get a little further on the trip! Thanks again to all.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Extremely well said...thanks for forwarding! A very sad loss of a piece of history,but thankfully not infinitely compounded by loss of life or injury.----------Randall02xB || !02xBRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Extremely well said...thanks for forwarding! A very sad loss of a piece of history,but thankfully not infinitely compounded by loss of life or injury.----------Randall02xB || !02xBRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Great picture, John. Definitely worth a thousand words. Or a couple of beveragesat Brodhead - my treat.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:10:13 -0700 (PDT)
Great picture, John. Definitely worth a thousand words. Or a couple of beveragesat Brodhead - my treat.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:10:13 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, I'll do it now:Refer to the Bingelis books. They will provide answers to all of your questions.Attached is a Tony Bingelis sketch showing various joint conditions, all deemedto be acceptable. If you don't own the set of Bingelis books, get one. Ifyou have a set, read them. Such a wealth of homebuilt aircraft information.So, in response to your questions:1. Yes, 90degree cuts on the ends of the braces are sufficient. They will be slightlyless strong than mitered (less bonding area), but not significantly. Personally,I prefer mitered joints, but I enjoy woodworking, and take pride innice fitting joints, whether anyone else knows about them or not - but that'sjust me. I'm not sure what you mean by your statement that your braces have been"mitered to probably within 1/16th". Do you mean you have 1/16" gaps betweenthe sticks? Basically the sticks should butt against the top and bottom capstrips.Iwould avoid gaps. A disc sander is an invaluable tool in building ribs(and many other parts) . I use mine ALL the time. Probably less than $100. Getthe biggest size you can find. Mine is 8 inch diameter.2. I used circular gussets - just liked the look better (but that's me). I mademine 2" diameter, and cut them into halves and quarters with a thin blade (scrollsaw).3. Build the way you want to build, and are capable of. Some homebuilt aircrafthave woodwork that looks like fine furniture, and some have woodwork that...doesn't. Strength will rely on proper techniques, and making sure that glue jointshave proper contact (no gaps between wood pieces that are not filled withthe proper amount of glue). How your aircraft performs will depend largely onthe symmetry and squareness (wherever things are supposed to be square) of yourconstruction, not how pretty it looks. Always remember "Keep it light". Personally,I think I'm aiming for a Seiko. A little nicer than a Timex, but muchmore reasonably priced than a Rolex.Lastly, I don't think that the FAA gives a hoot about how many hours you spentbuilding your plane (unless someone else did more hours on your plane than youdid). What they will care about is whether or not YOU built it.One rib down, and a bunch more to go. Before you know it you'll have a whole wing'sworth of ribs (unless you get distracted, like another builder, whose namerhymes with Gary Boothe).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bing ... ______Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:46:27 +0000 (UTC)
Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, I'll do it now:Refer to the Bingelis books. They will provide answers to all of your questions.Attached is a Tony Bingelis sketch showing various joint conditions, all deemedto be acceptable. If you don't own the set of Bingelis books, get one. Ifyou have a set, read them. Such a wealth of homebuilt aircraft information.So, in response to your questions:1. Yes, 90degree cuts on the ends of the braces are sufficient. They will be slightlyless strong than mitered (less bonding area), but not significantly. Personally,I prefer mitered joints, but I enjoy woodworking, and take pride innice fitting joints, whether anyone else knows about them or not - but that'sjust me. I'm not sure what you mean by your statement that your braces have been"mitered to probably within 1/16th". Do you mean you have 1/16" gaps betweenthe sticks? Basically the sticks should butt against the top and bottom capstrips.Iwould avoid gaps. A disc sander is an invaluable tool in building ribs(and many other parts) . I use mine ALL the time. Probably less than $100. Getthe biggest size you can find. Mine is 8 inch diameter.2. I used circular gussets - just liked the look better (but that's me). I mademine 2" diameter, and cut them into halves and quarters with a thin blade (scrollsaw).3. Build the way you want to build, and are capable of. Some homebuilt aircrafthave woodwork that looks like fine furniture, and some have woodwork that...doesn't. Strength will rely on proper techniques, and making sure that glue jointshave proper contact (no gaps between wood pieces that are not filled withthe proper amount of glue). How your aircraft performs will depend largely onthe symmetry and squareness (wherever things are supposed to be square) of yourconstruction, not how pretty it looks. Always remember "Keep it light". Personally,I think I'm aiming for a Seiko. A little nicer than a Timex, but muchmore reasonably priced than a Rolex.Lastly, I don't think that the FAA gives a hoot about how many hours you spentbuilding your plane (unless someone else did more hours on your plane than youdid). What they will care about is whether or not YOU built it.One rib down, and a bunch more to go. Before you know it you'll have a whole wing'sworth of ribs (unless you get distracted, like another builder, whose namerhymes with Gary Boothe).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bing ... ______Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:46:27 +0000 (UTC)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Not sure that it matters much, but I mitered (sanded) each diagonal and uprightto fit precisely and I honestly don't think it took me any longer to go thisroute. I didn't custom fit each part to each assembly, rather I made a set of"master" parts as I laid out the first rib and used each of these master partsto make the remaining parts by marking the cut angles on long pieces of capstrip.Most of us do this anyway (mark lengths) in order to cut our parts to thecorrect length, even if we are cutting 90s. So, after I marked my parts Iwent to the band saw and rip, rip, rip, rip, rip. Now I've got a stack of partswith angles marked on each end, so I take them to my disk sander and sand,sand, sand, sand, sand them to match the markings. It actually went really quick,and each part was fabricated to the identical dimension as the original masterpart. Once I had all these built, which only took me a few work sessions,I had an entire assembly line set up. Making these parts in batches is a LOTquicker than making them as you go (marking each piece, walking to the saweach time, etc.).I still have all these master parts. They fit perfectly in my jig in the eventthat I need to make a repair, or build another Piet later on. I know that all this isn't necessary, but I just wanted to share the way I didmine. I would argue that their is some degree of added strength in the increasedcontact area. I used the same process with my fuse halves... all the diagonalsand uprights were sanded to match. The fit is snug and leaves no voids.I think this serves to not only provide more surface area, but also better alignment...especially when doing a number of the same assemblies, such as ribs.My $.02Some of the diagonals cut and sorted.Gussets ready to go.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Not sure that it matters much, but I mitered (sanded) each diagonal and uprightto fit precisely and I honestly don't think it took me any longer to go thisroute. I didn't custom fit each part to each assembly, rather I made a set of"master" parts as I laid out the first rib and used each of these master partsto make the remaining parts by marking the cut angles on long pieces of capstrip.Most of us do this anyway (mark lengths) in order to cut our parts to thecorrect length, even if we are cutting 90s. So, after I marked my parts Iwent to the band saw and rip, rip, rip, rip, rip. Now I've got a stack of partswith angles marked on each end, so I take them to my disk sander and sand,sand, sand, sand, sand them to match the markings. It actually went really quick,and each part was fabricated to the identical dimension as the original masterpart. Once I had all these built, which only took me a few work sessions,I had an entire assembly line set up. Making these parts in batches is a LOTquicker than making them as you go (marking each piece, walking to the saweach time, etc.).I still have all these master parts. They fit perfectly in my jig in the eventthat I need to make a repair, or build another Piet later on. I know that all this isn't necessary, but I just wanted to share the way I didmine. I would argue that their is some degree of added strength in the increasedcontact area. I used the same process with my fuse halves... all the diagonalsand uprights were sanded to match. The fit is snug and leaves no voids.I think this serves to not only provide more surface area, but also better alignment...especially when doing a number of the same assemblies, such as ribs.My $.02Some of the diagonals cut and sorted.Gussets ready to go.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Wow! Bill nailed it. We must have been writing at the same time. I'll agree... the disc sander is an excellent tool. I got mine (6" with 4" belt)for $100. You can probably do much better than I did by scouring Craigslist.One more thing I want to agree with... I too enjoy woodworking and take pride innicely fitting joints. Not to brag, but I had a 20+ year wood shop instructorand airplane builder come into my hangar the other night (he has 6 airplanes).I noticed him looking over my project while I talked to another guy. Lateron I asked him what he thought and he said, "you are doing excellent work".Yep, I'm glad I've taken a little extra time (emphasis on little) to do my bestwork. Is it THE best work? Probably not, but I'm trying.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Wow! Bill nailed it. We must have been writing at the same time. I'll agree... the disc sander is an excellent tool. I got mine (6" with 4" belt)for $100. You can probably do much better than I did by scouring Craigslist.One more thing I want to agree with... I too enjoy woodworking and take pride innicely fitting joints. Not to brag, but I had a 20+ year wood shop instructorand airplane builder come into my hangar the other night (he has 6 airplanes).I noticed him looking over my project while I talked to another guy. Lateron I asked him what he thought and he said, "you are doing excellent work".Yep, I'm glad I've taken a little extra time (emphasis on little) to do my bestwork. Is it THE best work? Probably not, but I'm trying.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "tdudley(at)umn.edu"
What I meant about time is that, you are right that the FAA doesn't care how manyhours I put into the airplane, as long as it is done right. I only meant atally of hours would be meaningful to me. I appreciate all of the photos as it helps me as I go to get ideas.I think that the Seiko comparison may be the best goal - not to low end, not toohigh end, but built well and built to last. I do have the Bingelis books, but, frankly, I do not remember that diagram of thebraces and gussets. Maybe it is a different edition. If you can tell me thebook and page, I will go back and search for it.Back to work.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
What I meant about time is that, you are right that the FAA doesn't care how manyhours I put into the airplane, as long as it is done right. I only meant atally of hours would be meaningful to me. I appreciate all of the photos as it helps me as I go to get ideas.I think that the Seiko comparison may be the best goal - not to low end, not toohigh end, but built well and built to last. I do have the Bingelis books, but, frankly, I do not remember that diagram of thebraces and gussets. Maybe it is a different edition. If you can tell me thebook and page, I will go back and search for it.Back to work.--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Terry,I mitred my rib spacers and cut square/rectangular gussets. Do what Mark did andcut multiple spacers and gussets. It's really nice to be able to make a riba day without having to stop and cut individual pieces.Building the ribs was great--starting on the project and seeing progress each day.Every part of it was exciting.TomRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_ ... ______Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:26:59 -0400
Terry,I mitred my rib spacers and cut square/rectangular gussets. Do what Mark did andcut multiple spacers and gussets. It's really nice to be able to make a riba day without having to stop and cut individual pieces.Building the ribs was great--starting on the project and seeing progress each day.Every part of it was exciting.TomRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_ ... ______Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:26:59 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "Richard Schreiber"
Gary,I don't want to buy a bridge, I just like the visual... ;o)--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Gary,I don't want to buy a bridge, I just like the visual... ;o)--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By:> Ben Charvet
Ben:Thats how I did my rib pieces and like you it took about 1 hour per rib toassemble. After assembling one rib, I took the staples out of the one I didthe day before. I think on my best day one Saturday, I actually did 3 ribs.Rick Schreiber,Valparaiso In > [Original Message]
Ben:Thats how I did my rib pieces and like you it took about 1 hour per rib toassemble. After assembling one rib, I took the staples out of the one I didthe day before. I think on my best day one Saturday, I actually did 3 ribs.Rick Schreiber,Valparaiso In > [Original Message]
Re: Pietenpol-List: Flight report- back in the air
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flight report- back in the airGreat news DanSent via DROID on Verizon Wireless-----Original message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flight report- back in the airGreat news DanSent via DROID on Verizon Wireless-----Original message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cloudcars Prop Performance
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
OK, fellow Pieters,This weekend I received my new Cloudcars scimitar propeller for myPietenpol, and yesterday I was able to get some accurate climb data tocompare to the climb data I did with the old prop last week.My Pietenpol is heavy at 740 lbs empty and I've always been disappointed inits climb performance. I thought it was just due to the weight until I flewRyan Mueller's Pietenpol to Brodhead last year with its new Cloudcars prop.What a difference! His Piet was about 60 lbs lighter than mine, but thatcouldn't account for the difference in performance. It had to be the prop.Knowing that my new prop was about to arrive, I flew some early morningtests this past Wednesday to measure exactly what kind of performance I wasgetting with the old prop. Then, yesterday morning I did the same test withthe new prop. It was warmer yesterday and the density altitude was higher,but even so the results with the Cloudcars prop were impressive.Here are the data points. The first four runs were with the old prop, thelast four (in red) with the Cloudcars:Run Speed Initial Altitude Final Altitude Time Rate ofClimb Corrected Rate of Climb*1 50 mph 1500' 2000' 1:24357 fpm 357 fpm2 55 mph 1500' 2000' 1:43291 fpm 291 fpm3 45 mph 1700' 2200' 1:54263 fpm 263 fpm4 52 mph 1500' 2000' 1:20375 fpm 375 fpm5 50 mph 1600' 2100' 1:08441 fpm 539 fpm6 55 mph 1500' 2000' 1:09435 fpm 532 fpm7 45 mph 1550' 2050' 1:23361 fpm 441 fpm8 52 mph 1500' 2000' 1:00500 fpm 611 fpmCorrected rate of climb corrects for the difference in Density Altitudebetween the two days. The first 4 runs were made at a density altitude (onthe ground) of 1800', and the second set of 4 runs were made at a densityaltitude of 2200'.So even uncorrected, the Cloudcars prop (76" x 38") performs 33% better thanthe old (72" x 40" ) prop.The numbers tell one story, but flying the new prop is incredible! Theacceleration on takeoff is much brisker than the old prop, and the airplaneleaps off the ground and climbs like a homesick angel. With the old prop, Ialways had to have a discussion with the airplane to make it leave thecomfort of ground effect, and it did so only reluctantly. This is the firsttime I've ever seen 500 fpm sustained on my Vertical Speed Indicator.Here's a picture of the new prop on my airplane:I am SO looking forward to Brodhead now. Before, I was hesitant to takepassengers because the climb rate was so abysmal. Now I'll be ready to takea lot more, particularly pretty female passengers. I still have littleinterest in taking fat old men.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 17:16:58 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cloudcars Prop Performance
OK, fellow Pieters,This weekend I received my new Cloudcars scimitar propeller for myPietenpol, and yesterday I was able to get some accurate climb data tocompare to the climb data I did with the old prop last week.My Pietenpol is heavy at 740 lbs empty and I've always been disappointed inits climb performance. I thought it was just due to the weight until I flewRyan Mueller's Pietenpol to Brodhead last year with its new Cloudcars prop.What a difference! His Piet was about 60 lbs lighter than mine, but thatcouldn't account for the difference in performance. It had to be the prop.Knowing that my new prop was about to arrive, I flew some early morningtests this past Wednesday to measure exactly what kind of performance I wasgetting with the old prop. Then, yesterday morning I did the same test withthe new prop. It was warmer yesterday and the density altitude was higher,but even so the results with the Cloudcars prop were impressive.Here are the data points. The first four runs were with the old prop, thelast four (in red) with the Cloudcars:Run Speed Initial Altitude Final Altitude Time Rate ofClimb Corrected Rate of Climb*1 50 mph 1500' 2000' 1:24357 fpm 357 fpm2 55 mph 1500' 2000' 1:43291 fpm 291 fpm3 45 mph 1700' 2200' 1:54263 fpm 263 fpm4 52 mph 1500' 2000' 1:20375 fpm 375 fpm5 50 mph 1600' 2100' 1:08441 fpm 539 fpm6 55 mph 1500' 2000' 1:09435 fpm 532 fpm7 45 mph 1550' 2050' 1:23361 fpm 441 fpm8 52 mph 1500' 2000' 1:00500 fpm 611 fpmCorrected rate of climb corrects for the difference in Density Altitudebetween the two days. The first 4 runs were made at a density altitude (onthe ground) of 1800', and the second set of 4 runs were made at a densityaltitude of 2200'.So even uncorrected, the Cloudcars prop (76" x 38") performs 33% better thanthe old (72" x 40" ) prop.The numbers tell one story, but flying the new prop is incredible! Theacceleration on takeoff is much brisker than the old prop, and the airplaneleaps off the ground and climbs like a homesick angel. With the old prop, Ialways had to have a discussion with the airplane to make it leave thecomfort of ground effect, and it did so only reluctantly. This is the firsttime I've ever seen 500 fpm sustained on my Vertical Speed Indicator.Here's a picture of the new prop on my airplane:I am SO looking forward to Brodhead now. Before, I was hesitant to takepassengers because the climb rate was so abysmal. Now I'll be ready to takea lot more, particularly pretty female passengers. I still have littleinterest in taking fat old men.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 17:16:58 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cloudcars Prop Performance
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance
Original Posted By: jeff wilson
A few years ago I had Ed Sterba carve a prop for me. After a lot of research Itold him I wanted it to be a 76 x 38. When I replaced my 72 x 42 with it I wasvery surprised at the performance. Since then I've been able to get a holdof a Falcon prop that performs close to the same but I just love the looks ofit with the brass leading edge and all. So I sold the Sterba. But the Pietenpolreally does need a larger diameter flatter pitch prop for the engines thatturn somewhere in the 2100 rpm range. All that drag out there really needsthat large prop disk to be effective at the slower speeds.Glad you are happy with it Jack!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 06:23:33 -0700 (PDT)
A few years ago I had Ed Sterba carve a prop for me. After a lot of research Itold him I wanted it to be a 76 x 38. When I replaced my 72 x 42 with it I wasvery surprised at the performance. Since then I've been able to get a holdof a Falcon prop that performs close to the same but I just love the looks ofit with the brass leading edge and all. So I sold the Sterba. But the Pietenpolreally does need a larger diameter flatter pitch prop for the engines thatturn somewhere in the 2100 rpm range. All that drag out there really needsthat large prop disk to be effective at the slower speeds.Glad you are happy with it Jack!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 06:23:33 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: John Fay
Weather permitting - I'd also like to make my first flying trip to Osh this year.Was going to fly to Brodhead anyway. Was hoping to see a thread like this popup.Lorin Miller--------Lorin MillerWaiex N81YXGN-1 N30PPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 23:52:15 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Weather permitting - I'd also like to make my first flying trip to Osh this year.Was going to fly to Brodhead anyway. Was hoping to see a thread like this popup.Lorin Miller--------Lorin MillerWaiex N81YXGN-1 N30PPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 23:52:15 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
I may. got an email from him this morning. sent a couple poor pictures I had. Istill don't have a good picture of it I am sure hoping this ridiculously hotwindy weather will ease up this summer so I can fly once I got the distributorissue settled.it's supposed to be 105 again today. winds only about 20 now- 45degrees to the runway but they are supposed to blow a lot more later on.guessit's just as well I am not ready to fly anyway-I'd just be frustrated and wonderingwhether to risk it or not.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
I may. got an email from him this morning. sent a couple poor pictures I had. Istill don't have a good picture of it I am sure hoping this ridiculously hotwindy weather will ease up this summer so I can fly once I got the distributorissue settled.it's supposed to be 105 again today. winds only about 20 now- 45degrees to the runway but they are supposed to blow a lot more later on.guessit's just as well I am not ready to fly anyway-I'd just be frustrated and wonderingwhether to risk it or not.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: shad bell
john and Curt,Thanks for the additional info. I did download the article to keep for future reference.I really appreciate all of the support provided by this Forum.See you in Brodhead!--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:43:07 -0700 (PDT)
john and Curt,Thanks for the additional info. I did download the article to keep for future reference.I really appreciate all of the support provided by this Forum.See you in Brodhead!--------Semper Fi,TerryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:43:07 -0700 (PDT)
> Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
Original Posted By: "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com"
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted> by: "tdudley(at)umn.edu"> > > Terry,> > I mitred my rib spacers and cut square/rectangular> gussets. Do what Mark did and cut multiple spacers and> gussets. It's really nice to be able to make a rib a> day without having to stop and cut individual pieces.> > Building the ribs was great--starting on the project and> seeing progress each day. Every part of it was> exciting.> > Tom> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 320#343320> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_945.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_gusset_166.jpg> > > > > Email Forum -> FAQ,> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -> List Contribution Web Site -> -Matt> Dralle, List Admin.> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted> by: "tdudley(at)umn.edu"> > > Terry,> > I mitred my rib spacers and cut square/rectangular> gussets. Do what Mark did and cut multiple spacers and> gussets. It's really nice to be able to make a rib a> day without having to stop and cut individual pieces.> > Building the ribs was great--starting on the project and> seeing progress each day. Every part of it was> exciting.> > Tom> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 320#343320> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_945.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_gusset_166.jpg> > > > > Email Forum -> FAQ,> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -> List Contribution Web Site -> -Matt> Dralle, List Admin.> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
