Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Okay, I'm attempting to build the pilot's seat, and finding it a little difficultto make things add up. What I'm having difficulty with is determining the correctheight of the back edge of the seat. I think this question was raised nottoo long ago, and as I recall, the answer was to use the seat back to determinethe proper location. But it just doesn't seem right. Attached are a few clipsfrom the plans to make things more clear. One clip shows the side view ofthe fuselage construction, with a dimension of 22 1/16" from outside of longerons.The second clip shows the seat back to be 21" tall. Based on these dimensions,the bottom of the rear seat back would sit only slightly more than oneinch above the BOTTOM of the longeron, or, practically touching the top of thelongeron, since the longeron is one inch tall. The third clip shows the seatassembly (from drawing No.4), and, if we scale the drawing, the bottom of therear seat back appears to be about an inch and a quarter above the TOP of thelongeron.When I built my fuse mock-up, I didn't notice the discrepancy, and I just scaleddrawing No. 4.So, what is the right way to go here? Is the rear seat back supposed to sit justabove the longeron? Or is the 21" dimension a mistake?Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuse ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Pilot's seat height question
Re: Pietenpol-List: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: Bill Church
The 22 1/16" looks good. My seat back is 20"....but, hey,...just follow the plans...:-0Gary-----Original Message-----
The 22 1/16" looks good. My seat back is 20"....but, hey,...just follow the plans...:-0Gary-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I agree with Gary. Build your fuselage, install the control system, thenbuild the seat making sure it clears the controls. The actual length mayvary from the 21" that Orin Hoopman figured. Looking at mine, it looks likeI've got at least an inch above the top of the lower longeron:Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
I agree with Gary. Build your fuselage, install the control system, thenbuild the seat making sure it clears the controls. The actual length mayvary from the 21" that Orin Hoopman figured. Looking at mine, it looks likeI've got at least an inch above the top of the lower longeron:Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I bought one of those saws like Jim Markle also. Mine was a Delta. Just tip up to the vertical position. I fabricated a beefier "table" than the one they had. Once that was done the saw worked very well. Only downside to these types is the throat depth is fairly small. But somehow I managed to work around this. You can do most sawing operations sitting down on the "horse" part of the saw. Kind of nice during a long work day.Dan HelsperPuryear TN10 days till I leave for PG, then on to Brodhead!!________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
I bought one of those saws like Jim Markle also. Mine was a Delta. Just tip up to the vertical position. I fabricated a beefier "table" than the one they had. Once that was done the saw worked very well. Only downside to these types is the throat depth is fairly small. But somehow I managed to work around this. You can do most sawing operations sitting down on the "horse" part of the saw. Kind of nice during a long work day.Dan HelsperPuryear TN10 days till I leave for PG, then on to Brodhead!!________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Thanks, gents.I'm going with the assumption that the 21" dimension is a mistake (which is whatI thought in the first place, but thought I'd ask anyway). Apparently that isthe only error in the whole set of plans, so that's pretty good. :)Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Thanks, gents.I'm going with the assumption that the 21" dimension is a mistake (which is whatI thought in the first place, but thought I'd ask anyway). Apparently that isthe only error in the whole set of plans, so that's pretty good. :)Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: Bill Church
Bill,I'm not so sure that maybe the intent was to allow 1" of that seatback to stick up for an attachment of the turtledeck. I chose to do differently, though. I'll give BP the benefit...GB-----Original Message-----
Bill,I'm not so sure that maybe the intent was to allow 1" of that seatback to stick up for an attachment of the turtledeck. I chose to do differently, though. I'll give BP the benefit...GB-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: norm
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Just got thinking about the pilot's seat, and I began debating whether to makeit removable or not. The plans don't show it to be removable, but I know thatmany builders have made their seats removable. But removable means more complicated,and most likely also heavier. So, the question is:For the builders that have made their rear seat bottoms removable, do you thinkit was worthwhile or not? I'm sure it may be handy once in a while, but wouldyou consider it necessary? How often do you use the feature?Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Just got thinking about the pilot's seat, and I began debating whether to makeit removable or not. The plans don't show it to be removable, but I know thatmany builders have made their seats removable. But removable means more complicated,and most likely also heavier. So, the question is:For the builders that have made their rear seat bottoms removable, do you thinkit was worthwhile or not? I'm sure it may be handy once in a while, but wouldyou consider it necessary? How often do you use the feature?Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: "tdudley(at)umn.edu"
Thank you very much for everyones suggestions. I looked over here and a cheap metalband saw is around $600 which is a lot more than I thought they would be!I like the idea of the Sabre Saw. There is one on Ebay right now so will keepan eye on it and see what it goes for. I wasnt looking forward to cutting witha hacksaw.Scotty--------ScottyTamworth, AustraliaBuilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comRudder, Vert stab, Elevators and 30 Ribs built...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Thank you very much for everyones suggestions. I looked over here and a cheap metalband saw is around $600 which is a lot more than I thought they would be!I like the idea of the Sabre Saw. There is one on Ebay right now so will keepan eye on it and see what it goes for. I wasnt looking forward to cutting witha hacksaw.Scotty--------ScottyTamworth, AustraliaBuilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comRudder, Vert stab, Elevators and 30 Ribs built...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Bill,I am at the same point in building my fuselage as yourself so I'm following theresponses with interest. My take on the plans (reference your first picturefrom the plans) is this-- to plans the long gusset behind the diagonal strut is2 1/4"; the seat bottom is just below this. Guessing to scale, I would saythe seat bottom would be at 1 3/4" from the bottom of the longeron itself (notthe long bottom gusset glued there!). Jack's picture shows his seat above thegusset; his plane is done and flies and shows that "to plans" here probably doesn'tmatter. I cut my cardboard template to plans and it was too long as you'vealready stated. I think I will cut my seat back to 1 3/4" from the bottomof the longeron. I'd be interested in knowing what you end up doing. By the way, I've been following your build on mykitplane.com; I'd love it if youadded more pictures at this stage of your build. Will you be at Brodhead?TomRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 06:07:11 -0400
Bill,I am at the same point in building my fuselage as yourself so I'm following theresponses with interest. My take on the plans (reference your first picturefrom the plans) is this-- to plans the long gusset behind the diagonal strut is2 1/4"; the seat bottom is just below this. Guessing to scale, I would saythe seat bottom would be at 1 3/4" from the bottom of the longeron itself (notthe long bottom gusset glued there!). Jack's picture shows his seat above thegusset; his plane is done and flies and shows that "to plans" here probably doesn'tmatter. I cut my cardboard template to plans and it was too long as you'vealready stated. I think I will cut my seat back to 1 3/4" from the bottomof the longeron. I'd be interested in knowing what you end up doing. By the way, I've been following your build on mykitplane.com; I'd love it if youadded more pictures at this stage of your build. Will you be at Brodhead?TomRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 06:07:11 -0400
RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another question about the pilot's seat
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Jack,Here's an idea I picked up at Brodhead '09 (may have been from Tim Mickel),but decided to use it on my own. The pilot seat is cut in 1/3'rds, gussetsglued to the bottom to support a piece of 1/16" plywood, which just lays inthere. Center piece of pilot seat is hinged. Doesn't take much time, doesn'tadd hardly any weight, you can still see anything you may want to under theseat, and a little extra storage room for peanut butter sandwich, tools,contraband.....GaryPilot Seat Bottom 001.jpgPilot Seat Bottom 002.jpgPilot Seat Bottom 003.jpg-----Original Message-----
Jack,Here's an idea I picked up at Brodhead '09 (may have been from Tim Mickel),but decided to use it on my own. The pilot seat is cut in 1/3'rds, gussetsglued to the bottom to support a piece of 1/16" plywood, which just lays inthere. Center piece of pilot seat is hinged. Doesn't take much time, doesn'tadd hardly any weight, you can still see anything you may want to under theseat, and a little extra storage room for peanut butter sandwich, tools,contraband.....GaryPilot Seat Bottom 001.jpgPilot Seat Bottom 002.jpgPilot Seat Bottom 003.jpg-----Original Message-----
Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another question about the pilot's seat
Original Posted By: "Jack"
Hey JackI used a few strips of velcro to hold the seat bottom down. I have my ELT located under the seat and have to access it.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Hey JackI used a few strips of velcro to hold the seat bottom down. I have my ELT located under the seat and have to access it.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Oh yeah, I did make the front seat removable.I already had the sticks glued to the bottom of the 1/4" ply, and was about toadd the legs, when I thought that I would surely need access to the rudder barpivot, so I ripped off the underside structure, and made the seat removable (9screws).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Oh yeah, I did make the front seat removable.I already had the sticks glued to the bottom of the 1/4" ply, and was about toadd the legs, when I thought that I would surely need access to the rudder barpivot, so I ripped off the underside structure, and made the seat removable (9screws).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot's seat height question
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another question about the pilot's seat
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
To Tom:I agree that this is not a super critical dimension. Too low, and it could interferewith the controls - too high, and you stick out if the airplane too much,but in between, I think there is quite a bit of leeway. Having learned draftingback in the days before CAD, I know that smaller scale drawings usually cannotbe scaled accurately. While the long side gussets you refer to are supposedto be 2 1/4", if you compare their size to the 1" longeron to which it attaches,it appears to be closer to 3" than 2". It is for that reason that I woulddefer to the larger scale detail on drawing No.4. In that detail, the spacebetween the top of the longeron and the bottom of the seat structure appears tobe larger than the longeron (1"). So, my guess would be somewhere around 2 1/4"from the bottom of the longeron.You're right - I've fallen behind on my photos on mykitplane.com. I'll try toadd some. And, yes, I will be at Brodhead. See you there?To Norm:My fuselage (like most, probably), is slightly different from the plans as well.My seat back is tilted back 2 1/2", and my fuselage depth (height?) is increasedby 1". Having said that, the only relevant dimension for this discussionis the distance between the bottom of the lower longeron and the underside ofthe seat structure, since this is the amount of clear space for the controls topass through. As I mentioned above, I'm going to use 2 1/4" as the target. Thanksfor measuring.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another question about the pilot's seat
To Tom:I agree that this is not a super critical dimension. Too low, and it could interferewith the controls - too high, and you stick out if the airplane too much,but in between, I think there is quite a bit of leeway. Having learned draftingback in the days before CAD, I know that smaller scale drawings usually cannotbe scaled accurately. While the long side gussets you refer to are supposedto be 2 1/4", if you compare their size to the 1" longeron to which it attaches,it appears to be closer to 3" than 2". It is for that reason that I woulddefer to the larger scale detail on drawing No.4. In that detail, the spacebetween the top of the longeron and the bottom of the seat structure appears tobe larger than the longeron (1"). So, my guess would be somewhere around 2 1/4"from the bottom of the longeron.You're right - I've fallen behind on my photos on mykitplane.com. I'll try toadd some. And, yes, I will be at Brodhead. See you there?To Norm:My fuselage (like most, probably), is slightly different from the plans as well.My seat back is tilted back 2 1/2", and my fuselage depth (height?) is increasedby 1". Having said that, the only relevant dimension for this discussionis the distance between the bottom of the lower longeron and the underside ofthe seat structure, since this is the amount of clear space for the controls topass through. As I mentioned above, I'm going to use 2 1/4" as the target. Thanksfor measuring.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another question about the pilot's seat
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another question about the pilot's seat
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Bill,Just because I don't use my removable rear seat bottom doesn't mean thatyou won't need access behind the seat. With the elevator bellcrank backthere (and the ELT, in my airplane), I decided to make a removable accesspanel on the belly of the airlane to service this area.You can see the area for the access panel in this picture of the fuselagebeing covered:This is another area that gets opened at each annual inspection, to inspectand lubricate all the control cables and pulleys, as well as to change thebatteries in the ELT.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Bill,Just because I don't use my removable rear seat bottom doesn't mean thatyou won't need access behind the seat. With the elevator bellcrank backthere (and the ELT, in my airplane), I decided to make a removable accesspanel on the belly of the airlane to service this area.You can see the area for the access panel in this picture of the fuselagebeing covered:This is another area that gets opened at each annual inspection, to inspectand lubricate all the control cables and pulleys, as well as to change thebatteries in the ELT.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another question about the pilot's seat
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Looks good Jack I hope you dont do what I did with my Iron on the concrete floor I put down my hot iron to do something and the cold concrete floor fooled the iron in to heating up so I burned a hole just the size of your modeling iron ( small one for none r/c people) right in to the bottom of the fuse It=99s a real job to crawl way in the back of a old t craft to put a patch in the fabric from the top didn=99t like that repair so made a inspection patch on the outside but never cut it open
Looks good Jack I hope you dont do what I did with my Iron on the concrete floor I put down my hot iron to do something and the cold concrete floor fooled the iron in to heating up so I burned a hole just the size of your modeling iron ( small one for none r/c people) right in to the bottom of the fuse It=99s a real job to crawl way in the back of a old t craft to put a patch in the fabric from the top didn=99t like that repair so made a inspection patch on the outside but never cut it open
Pietenpol-List: Pilot's seat height question
Original Posted By: George Abernathy
Bill;You asked about removable rear seat bottom. 41CC has a removable rearseat and I've used it a time or two. I think it's useful to have. Theway it's done on my airplane is that the seat bottom is in severalpieces or layers. The top layer is thin plywood with the upholsteryinstalled on it, and it sits loose in the airplane. Beneath it is a solid, thinplywood seat panel that is secured in place with a couple of screws.Beneath that is the seat framing and the control cables running aft.I can provide a few pictures if you'd like to see what it looks like.The rear, or backrest, part of my seat is also accessible. A part ofthe backrest plywood is cut out and hinges forward for access to theantennas (ELT and VHF COMM), elevator walking beam controls, and ofcourse the well-renowned and vast Air Camper storage space back there I carry the airplane's papers, a small bottle of water, spare gogglesand leather helmet, and gloves in a small pouch mounted to the backof the hinged panel. There really isn't much space backthere for more than that and the CG doesn't like stuff back thereanyway.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford, ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:08:37 -0700 (PDT)
Bill;You asked about removable rear seat bottom. 41CC has a removable rearseat and I've used it a time or two. I think it's useful to have. Theway it's done on my airplane is that the seat bottom is in severalpieces or layers. The top layer is thin plywood with the upholsteryinstalled on it, and it sits loose in the airplane. Beneath it is a solid, thinplywood seat panel that is secured in place with a couple of screws.Beneath that is the seat framing and the control cables running aft.I can provide a few pictures if you'd like to see what it looks like.The rear, or backrest, part of my seat is also accessible. A part ofthe backrest plywood is cut out and hinges forward for access to theantennas (ELT and VHF COMM), elevator walking beam controls, and ofcourse the well-renowned and vast Air Camper storage space back there I carry the airplane's papers, a small bottle of water, spare gogglesand leather helmet, and gloves in a small pouch mounted to the backof the hinged panel. There really isn't much space backthere for more than that and the CG doesn't like stuff back thereanyway.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford, ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:08:37 -0700 (PDT)