Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
0.94 RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP Received: contains illegal IP addressChris,Yes, I spun my "Mountain Piet" both directions.Stall and entry was sharp and clean, probably due to the relatively sharp leadingedge of the Pietenpol airfoil. The plane wound up very fast which surprisedme. I made a normal recovery after two turns.The CG was at about 18" aft of the leading edge of the wing and gross at about1000 lbs when I did thisI didn't check altitude loss on the altimeter, but would judge it to be at least800 ft for two complete turns with a gentle recovery (max airspeed at about95 mph) at only about 2.0 g's.I don't think you need to put spins into your test program except to demonstratethe abrupt entry characteristic of the plane.In another matter, I noticed on the list some discussion about the ceiling of aPiet. I would like to claim the record here if I may, 15,300 feet! Of courseI had a turbocharged Subaru engine. Is this cheating? The plane was stillclimbing at this altitude, but I was so damn'd cold, I terminated the experiment.Cordially,John________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Spins
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpinsIn a message dated 7/13/2005 9:33:55 AM Central Standard Time, dilatush(at)amigo.net writes:In another matter, I noticed on the list some discussion about the ceiling of a Piet. I would like to claim the record here if I may, 15,300 feet! Of course I had a turbocharged Subaru engine. Is this cheating? The plane was still climbing at this altitude, but I was so damn'd cold, I terminated the experiment.Cordially,JohnWell John, ya probably got me there !! How much horsepower do you suppose the engine was putting out at 15,000 feet ? No doubt, my 65 hp would run out ofUmph, before I got 'er up that high.Chuck G.Planning on some high altitude tests this weekend. Will report results.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpinsIn a message dated 7/13/2005 9:33:55 AM Central Standard Time, dilatush(at)amigo.net writes:In another matter, I noticed on the list some discussion about the ceiling of a Piet. I would like to claim the record here if I may, 15,300 feet! Of course I had a turbocharged Subaru engine. Is this cheating? The plane was still climbing at this altitude, but I was so damn'd cold, I terminated the experiment.Cordially,JohnWell John, ya probably got me there !! How much horsepower do you suppose the engine was putting out at 15,000 feet ? No doubt, my 65 hp would run out ofUmph, before I got 'er up that high.Chuck G.Planning on some high altitude tests this weekend. Will report results.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: engines...
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I've wondered the same about my K100 engine (BMW motorcycle). It's a smallwater-cooled package that provides over 100 HP in later versions.Bob.-----Original Message-----
I've wondered the same about my K100 engine (BMW motorcycle). It's a smallwater-cooled package that provides over 100 HP in later versions.Bob.-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: engines...
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Pietenpol-List: Spins
Original Posted By: "GliderMike"
Hm. Tempting. Very tempting. Unfortunately, the remodeling projects we just completed dipped a bit farther intoour checking account than I anticipated. I'd guesstimate that my A-65 with ~500 hrs SMOH would offset a good portion ofthe C-85, though. And I reckon I could keep the McCauley 74-42 prop I have forthe time being...Yes, it's tempting all right. Dan-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Hm. Tempting. Very tempting. Unfortunately, the remodeling projects we just completed dipped a bit farther intoour checking account than I anticipated. I'd guesstimate that my A-65 with ~500 hrs SMOH would offset a good portion ofthe C-85, though. And I reckon I could keep the McCauley 74-42 prop I have forthe time being...Yes, it's tempting all right. Dan-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Does anyone spin their Piet? Is the general consensus the airframe is strong enoughto do 1 or 2 turn spins, if you don't get drastic with it. When Beech andPiper came out with the Skipper and Tomahawk, they were originally supposedto be OK to do spins in them, until a couple of tails fell off.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Does anyone spin their Piet? Is the general consensus the airframe is strong enoughto do 1 or 2 turn spins, if you don't get drastic with it. When Beech andPiper came out with the Skipper and Tomahawk, they were originally supposedto be OK to do spins in them, until a couple of tails fell off.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I've never spun mine, and don't intend to try. The Pietenpol has a verysmall vertical fin and is only marginally stable in yaw. I'm not sure itwould recover well from a spin and would hate to try to spin it, only tofind that it will not recover. Just don't see the point in trying it.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
I've never spun mine, and don't intend to try. The Pietenpol has a verysmall vertical fin and is only marginally stable in yaw. I'm not sure itwould recover well from a spin and would hate to try to spin it, only tofind that it will not recover. Just don't see the point in trying it.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Original Posted By: "FlyBoy57"
Has anyone thought about some type of removable luggage pod that can be installedunder the fuselage on or near the landing gear? Something about the size ofa small carry on for airline travel. Reason is, I am thinking about installing two fuel tanks. One in front and a fewgallon tank in the center wing section. I will use the pod for overnight trips.Dumb idea?Stay well,DonatoRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Has anyone thought about some type of removable luggage pod that can be installedunder the fuselage on or near the landing gear? Something about the size ofa small carry on for airline travel. Reason is, I am thinking about installing two fuel tanks. One in front and a fewgallon tank in the center wing section. I will use the pod for overnight trips.Dumb idea?Stay well,DonatoRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
I agree with Jack, don't do it. However, if you must, a few suggestions. Installa BRS and have an expert test pilot do it. Be willing to say good bye toyour Piet. if it doesn't go well.DonatoRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 08:19:53 -0400
I agree with Jack, don't do it. However, if you must, a few suggestions. Installa BRS and have an expert test pilot do it. Be willing to say good bye toyour Piet. if it doesn't go well.DonatoRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 08:19:53 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
RE: Pietenpol-List: Luggage Pod
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Pete Bowers designed such a belly pod for his FlyBaby. I'm sure the plansare available somewhere. Try the Fly Baby website:http://www.bowersflybaby.comJack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pete Bowers designed such a belly pod for his FlyBaby. I'm sure the plansare available somewhere. Try the Fly Baby website:http://www.bowersflybaby.comJack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod
Original Posted By: shad bell
Something like this?:https://picasaweb.google.com/TresClemen ... 370914Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 08:39:19 -0700 (PDT)
Something like this?:https://picasaweb.google.com/TresClemen ... 370914Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 08:39:19 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod
Original Posted By: "Graham Hansen"
Yea, but I'm not sure I want to make it look like a bomb? Thanks for the pic.DonatoRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Yea, but I'm not sure I want to make it look like a bomb? Thanks for the pic.DonatoRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Original Posted By: mark lee
I'm with Jack Phillips on this one. A few years ago I submitted a post on this topic and it should be languishing in the archives, so I 'll not repeat it.I have been flying my Piet for over forty years and have never spun it. Some reasons:1. Type-certified production airplanes are built according to a pretty rigid specification in order that each aircraft will have predictable and safe flying characteristics, including spin behavior and spin recovery. One Piper J3, for example, will behave in the same way as all others of the type, provided they all conform to the original specification.2. Homebuilts tend to vary and no two of the same design are exactly alike.Variations in CG location, rigging and other deviations from the plans may create problems in spin behaviour and recovery.3. There is no space for a parachute in my Pietenpol and I am not inclined to risk losing my airplane by having to abandon it, even if there was room for both me and a parachute. (Note that the weight of a parachute would be well aft and could have a bad effect on spin behavior.)Back in the 1930s several pilots I knew used to spin Pietenpols with heavy Ford A engines up front, but these guys were young, lean and light (also brave!). Presumably the CG was far enough forward or they wouldn't have been able to tell me about it.Personally, I will spin a type-certified airplane provided it conforms to the original type specification and is not placarded against spinning, but I will not do it with my Pietenpol. If I need spin and recovery practice I'll use an unmodified Luscombe or Taylorcraft..Graham Hansen Pietenpol Cf-AUN in wet central Alberta, Canada________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 11:10:45 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
I'm with Jack Phillips on this one. A few years ago I submitted a post on this topic and it should be languishing in the archives, so I 'll not repeat it.I have been flying my Piet for over forty years and have never spun it. Some reasons:1. Type-certified production airplanes are built according to a pretty rigid specification in order that each aircraft will have predictable and safe flying characteristics, including spin behavior and spin recovery. One Piper J3, for example, will behave in the same way as all others of the type, provided they all conform to the original specification.2. Homebuilts tend to vary and no two of the same design are exactly alike.Variations in CG location, rigging and other deviations from the plans may create problems in spin behaviour and recovery.3. There is no space for a parachute in my Pietenpol and I am not inclined to risk losing my airplane by having to abandon it, even if there was room for both me and a parachute. (Note that the weight of a parachute would be well aft and could have a bad effect on spin behavior.)Back in the 1930s several pilots I knew used to spin Pietenpols with heavy Ford A engines up front, but these guys were young, lean and light (also brave!). Presumably the CG was far enough forward or they wouldn't have been able to tell me about it.Personally, I will spin a type-certified airplane provided it conforms to the original type specification and is not placarded against spinning, but I will not do it with my Pietenpol. If I need spin and recovery practice I'll use an unmodified Luscombe or Taylorcraft..Graham Hansen Pietenpol Cf-AUN in wet central Alberta, Canada________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 11:10:45 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Graham, I'll look thru the archives, and see if I can find your old post aboutspins. Thanks.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Graham, I'll look thru the archives, and see if I can find your old post aboutspins. Thanks.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
That looks just like Dan Yocum's PietenpolJack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
That looks just like Dan Yocum's PietenpolJack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Yep. I tried to get Tres to sell me the bomb pod, as he called it, but he wouldn't.Oh, well. Maybe I'll try again noe that he's flying the Boomerang. Dan-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Aug 7, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > Something like this?:> > https://picasaweb.google.com/TresClemen ... 4507370914> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 814#348814> > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Yep. I tried to get Tres to sell me the bomb pod, as he called it, but he wouldn't.Oh, well. Maybe I'll try again noe that he's flying the Boomerang. Dan-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Aug 7, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > Something like this?:> > https://picasaweb.google.com/TresClemen ... 4507370914> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 814#348814> > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mark,If you haven't even learned to fly yet, why in the world are you worriedabout spinning a Pietenpol? Get your flight training, and insist on spintraining if you can find an instructor and an airplane to do it in. Thenbuild an airplane that will meet your needs. If you are going to be flyingin the high country I would probably look at something like a Bearhawkrather than a Pietenpol. Call Bob Barrows and ask him about the spincharacteristics of the Bearhawk.I can tell you from personal experience that a Pietenpol is not an idealmountain flying airplane. On the way back from Oshkosh, as I flew over theBlue Ridge Mountains at 6,000' there were any number of times when I gotcaught in downdrafts and put the plane in climb mode, climbing at fullthrottle and best rate of climb speed, and was still losing over 500 feetper minute. Then a minute or two later, I would be throttled back to idleand still climbing at 700 feet per minute. I love flying the Pietenpol toWisconsin every summer - as soon as I cross the Ohio River and get into themidwest, where flying is easy. It is not a joy to fly a Pietenpol in themountains.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Mark,If you haven't even learned to fly yet, why in the world are you worriedabout spinning a Pietenpol? Get your flight training, and insist on spintraining if you can find an instructor and an airplane to do it in. Thenbuild an airplane that will meet your needs. If you are going to be flyingin the high country I would probably look at something like a Bearhawkrather than a Pietenpol. Call Bob Barrows and ask him about the spincharacteristics of the Bearhawk.I can tell you from personal experience that a Pietenpol is not an idealmountain flying airplane. On the way back from Oshkosh, as I flew over theBlue Ridge Mountains at 6,000' there were any number of times when I gotcaught in downdrafts and put the plane in climb mode, climbing at fullthrottle and best rate of climb speed, and was still losing over 500 feetper minute. Then a minute or two later, I would be throttled back to idleand still climbing at 700 feet per minute. I love flying the Pietenpol toWisconsin every summer - as soon as I cross the Ohio River and get into themidwest, where flying is easy. It is not a joy to fly a Pietenpol in themountains.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod
Original Posted By: Gerry Holland
Has anyone seen these. Seems to be a Pietenpol on view.RegardsGerry________________________________________________________________________________
Has anyone seen these. Seems to be a Pietenpol on view.RegardsGerry________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Here is the Link!!!!http://www.uflyit.com/cargo_pods.htm___ ... __________
Here is the Link!!!!http://www.uflyit.com/cargo_pods.htm___ ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Original Posted By: "GliderMike"
I have not spun 41CC, although I've been tempted to a couple of times.My only hesitation was that my instructor, who is very competent flyingaerobatics, told me that he would prefer that the airplane have a littlemore rudder before he would spin it.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford, ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
I have not spun 41CC, although I've been tempted to a couple of times.My only hesitation was that my instructor, who is very competent flyingaerobatics, told me that he would prefer that the airplane have a littlemore rudder before he would spin it.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford, ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
Jack, it was me that was interested in doing spins. I'm rated in land airplanesunder 12,500 pounds, with at least one reciprocating engine, and free balloonswith airborne heaters. I don't have as much air time as Mark does in the mountains,but what I do have is in unpowered ultralights. Like Mark, my mountainflying time is spent looking for the updrafts to gain altitude, and quicklyflying thru the downdrafts, or avoiding the areas where a downdraft is likelyto happen.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Jack, it was me that was interested in doing spins. I'm rated in land airplanesunder 12,500 pounds, with at least one reciprocating engine, and free balloonswith airborne heaters. I don't have as much air time as Mark does in the mountains,but what I do have is in unpowered ultralights. Like Mark, my mountainflying time is spent looking for the updrafts to gain altitude, and quicklyflying thru the downdrafts, or avoiding the areas where a downdraft is likelyto happen.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
t>13691 with a broken crankshaft, in the beans near Momence, IL in July 2009-Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 0#349000le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
t>13691 with a broken crankshaft, in the beans near Momence, IL in July 2009-Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 0#349000le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Original Posted By: mark lee
Just practice stall recovery. Every spin starts with a stall. If you can recover from a stall you have already done the important part of spin recovery. I used to do a spin with a student who was about ready for solo, just to show him what it was like. I stopped that when one of my students quit the training because the spin scared the desire to fly out of him. 2 cents wortth. ----- Original Message -----
Just practice stall recovery. Every spin starts with a stall. If you can recover from a stall you have already done the important part of spin recovery. I used to do a spin with a student who was about ready for solo, just to show him what it was like. I stopped that when one of my students quit the training because the spin scared the desire to fly out of him. 2 cents wortth. ----- Original Message -----
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
FAA:Sec. 91.303Aerobatic flight.No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight--(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, ClassD, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;(e) Below an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface; or(f) When flight visibility is less than 3 statute miles.For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuverinvolving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude,or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight.What are the safety margins designed into the Pietenpol? What is the designed wingloads and stress at designed weight? What does yours weight? Any mod's? .... any questions?--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:42:38 -0500
FAA:Sec. 91.303Aerobatic flight.No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight--(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, ClassD, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;(e) Below an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface; or(f) When flight visibility is less than 3 statute miles.For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuverinvolving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude,or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight.What are the safety margins designed into the Pietenpol? What is the designed wingloads and stress at designed weight? What does yours weight? Any mod's? .... any questions?--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:42:38 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Original Posted By: GliderMike
What if you spin a corvair?-----Original Message-----
What if you spin a corvair?-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Dan, those are 8.50 x 6. I think your Piet needs those too. I've thought aboutputting together a set for mine and just switching back and forth between talltires and really cool hayfield 8.5 x 6's whenever the mood strikes.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Dan, those are 8.50 x 6. I think your Piet needs those too. I've thought aboutputting together a set for mine and just switching back and forth between talltires and really cool hayfield 8.5 x 6's whenever the mood strikes.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
As a note of interest, Chet Peek writes in his excellent book "The Pietenpol Story"of an incident involving BHP and spins. From this story, it sounds like spinshad been performed in Air Campers before, but in one instance, with BHP inthe front seat, and a heavier pilot in the rear, they got into a flat spin,and barely recovered. A cautionary tale. Probably best to just avoid spins withthe Air Camper.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
As a note of interest, Chet Peek writes in his excellent book "The Pietenpol Story"of an incident involving BHP and spins. From this story, it sounds like spinshad been performed in Air Campers before, but in one instance, with BHP inthe front seat, and a heavier pilot in the rear, they got into a flat spin,and barely recovered. A cautionary tale. Probably best to just avoid spins withthe Air Camper.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins