Original Posted By: "Warren D. Shoun"
The time has come to begin construction of the landing gear forour Aircamper (extended fuselage for the Corvair / Continental)engine, and a discussion has begun within our three man buildingteam regarding the best landing gear arrangement to use. We hadalways planned on using the original gear shown on the plans, but someone suggested using a modified Cub-type gear.I spoke with Don Pietenpol to ask about the Cub-style landing gear on the "Last Original". He said this was an experiment performed by his father to allow improved braking performance (i.e. one could apply the brakes at 40 mph during a wheel landing).He claims that the ground handling is easier with the original design because the wheels are further back, and "bad landings" result in a flat bounce, rather than resulting in steep nose-up bounces. He says that everything's fine with the original gear, provided that you always stick the tail down before applying the brakes. He claims no problems with full-power runups. There are no plans available from Don for the Cub-style landing gear.On the other hand, we located an article that claims acceptable width fora conventional type landing gear is between 15-20% of the wing span, which forthe Piet works out to be 55 1/2" - 74". The original landing gear is 56" wide.Is anyone currently flying with the original gear who can provide some performanceinfo.? Has anyone built the Cub-style gear or know of plans for such? I don't knowwhat the purported advantages of this gear design might be except that it may be a little wider. Any help is appreciated!________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Landing gear questions
Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: Mpj01(at)aol.com
William You will want to look at a set of Grega GN-1 plans....which are the adaptationofthe Cub gear to the Pietenpol....also speak with anyone currently flying a Gregaforreal life performance experiences.Best Regards,Warren________________________________________________________________________________
William You will want to look at a set of Grega GN-1 plans....which are the adaptationofthe Cub gear to the Pietenpol....also speak with anyone currently flying a Gregaforreal life performance experiences.Best Regards,Warren________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: Greg Cardinal
Speaking of landing gear, does anyone know where to find wheels and brakes atan affordable price? The cost of these items seems to have gone up in justthe last year.ThanksMike________________________________________________________________________________
Speaking of landing gear, does anyone know where to find wheels and brakes atan affordable price? The cost of these items seems to have gone up in justthe last year.ThanksMike________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: "Warren D. Shoun"
Is anyone currently flying with the original gear who can provide someperformanceinfo.? Has anyone built the Cub-style gear or know of plans for such? Idon't knowwhat the purported advantages of this gear design might be except that itmaybe a little wider. Any help is appreciated!I am flying with the split gear with 600x6 mains. They are quite sturdy,but making sure that the bungies are tight is important. I did my firstflights with them fairly loose. Made for great soft landings, but when Istarted adding weight to the front seat, the plane began to waddle duringtaxi. The cords didn't have enought wraps to keep the gear stout and theplane would swim between the stops. Not at all comforting. Tightening thebungies made all the difference in the world. I also have hydraulic brakesso I move the axles 4.5 inches forward. With the short fuse, and a lightengine A-65 this puts about 50 lbs of pressure on the tailwheel without apilot. YOu may ask so what if your CG is correct. Well I am here to tellyou that on your first hard tailwheel plant landing, you will likely bend upthe a-frame. I did. Twice. The fix was to strengthen the tailwheel frameby using 3/4" .049 4130 instead of the 5/8" .035 and add a cross brace tomake an "A" rather than a "V". I have the correct set up now and it works,but doing it over again I would build the long fuse, and position the gearonly about 2.5 inches forward of the plans if I used brakes. Just goes toshow you how making one change causes a ripple effect. Checkhttp://www.matcomfg.com for brakes and wheels.Steve E________________________________________________________________________________
Is anyone currently flying with the original gear who can provide someperformanceinfo.? Has anyone built the Cub-style gear or know of plans for such? Idon't knowwhat the purported advantages of this gear design might be except that itmaybe a little wider. Any help is appreciated!I am flying with the split gear with 600x6 mains. They are quite sturdy,but making sure that the bungies are tight is important. I did my firstflights with them fairly loose. Made for great soft landings, but when Istarted adding weight to the front seat, the plane began to waddle duringtaxi. The cords didn't have enought wraps to keep the gear stout and theplane would swim between the stops. Not at all comforting. Tightening thebungies made all the difference in the world. I also have hydraulic brakesso I move the axles 4.5 inches forward. With the short fuse, and a lightengine A-65 this puts about 50 lbs of pressure on the tailwheel without apilot. YOu may ask so what if your CG is correct. Well I am here to tellyou that on your first hard tailwheel plant landing, you will likely bend upthe a-frame. I did. Twice. The fix was to strengthen the tailwheel frameby using 3/4" .049 4130 instead of the 5/8" .035 and add a cross brace tomake an "A" rather than a "V". I have the correct set up now and it works,but doing it over again I would build the long fuse, and position the gearonly about 2.5 inches forward of the plans if I used brakes. Just goes toshow you how making one change causes a ripple effect. Checkhttp://www.matcomfg.com for brakes and wheels.Steve E________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: "McNarry, John"
________________________________________________________________________________Send reply to: Pietenpol Discussion > Speaking of landing gear, does anyone know where to find wheels and brakes at> an affordable price? The cost of these items seems to have gone up in just> the last year.> Thanks> MikeMike: I used alloy rimed magnesium hubed 21" dirt bike wheels. If you look around at bikes you will find some use a steel flange for the spokes opposite the brake drum. I decided how wide I wanted the hubs and swung an arc drawn to scale on paper to represent the spoke length. The radius change from the axle center line determined the diameter for the new spoke flange. I made a spacer to position the flange. The spoke tension as well as the flanges screwskeep it in place. I bored out the hubs and pressed in brone bushings for a 1 1/2" axle. I wouldn't feel comfortable with out brakes on hard surface near otherexpensive aircraft on the ramp!John Mc________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________Send reply to: Pietenpol Discussion > Speaking of landing gear, does anyone know where to find wheels and brakes at> an affordable price? The cost of these items seems to have gone up in just> the last year.> Thanks> MikeMike: I used alloy rimed magnesium hubed 21" dirt bike wheels. If you look around at bikes you will find some use a steel flange for the spokes opposite the brake drum. I decided how wide I wanted the hubs and swung an arc drawn to scale on paper to represent the spoke length. The radius change from the axle center line determined the diameter for the new spoke flange. I made a spacer to position the flange. The spoke tension as well as the flanges screwskeep it in place. I bored out the hubs and pressed in brone bushings for a 1 1/2" axle. I wouldn't feel comfortable with out brakes on hard surface near otherexpensive aircraft on the ramp!John Mc________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com (Richard DeCosta)
Hey Steve,You said on a long fuselage you would move the gear about 2.5 inches forward.Is this the axles? and is the measurement 17" per the 1934 plans or 16.5"per the 1937 aircamper with the 1960 corvair engine? Thanks, -=Ron=-________________________________________________________________________________
Hey Steve,You said on a long fuselage you would move the gear about 2.5 inches forward.Is this the axles? and is the measurement 17" per the 1934 plans or 16.5"per the 1937 aircamper with the 1960 corvair engine? Thanks, -=Ron=-________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: Steve W
-----Original Message-----PTNPOL(at)aol.comSent: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 8:58 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Landing gear questionsHey Steve,You said on a long fuselage you would move the gear about 2.5 inchesforward.Is this the axles? and is the measurement 17" per the 1934 plans or 16.5"per the 1937 aircamper with the 1960 corvair engine? Thanks, -=Ron=-Yes, move the axle forward 2.5 inches from the 1934 plans. This is just aneducated guess mind you. I haven't built my second piet, yet.STevee________________________________________________________________________________
-----Original Message-----PTNPOL(at)aol.comSent: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 8:58 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Landing gear questionsHey Steve,You said on a long fuselage you would move the gear about 2.5 inchesforward.Is this the axles? and is the measurement 17" per the 1934 plans or 16.5"per the 1937 aircamper with the 1960 corvair engine? Thanks, -=Ron=-Yes, move the axle forward 2.5 inches from the 1934 plans. This is just aneducated guess mind you. I haven't built my second piet, yet.STevee________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By:> steve(at)byu.edu
Steve, Are you using the original gear design, or a modified Cub gear?Also, I recently located an article associated with the longer fuselagethat states that a current modification to the original design is that"the fuselage landing gear fittings are made in one piece from side to side".Can I assume that he's referring to using a single strip of steel to fabricateboth the right and left side landing gear / flying strut fittings (under the ash cross-member)?Finally, did you use weld-on or bolt-on axles, and how did you get the properwheel alignment?Thanks for all your help- I'm still learning, and anxiously awaiting our firstflight. (It seems so long from now!)-Bill> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:37:54 -0600
Steve, Are you using the original gear design, or a modified Cub gear?Also, I recently located an article associated with the longer fuselagethat states that a current modification to the original design is that"the fuselage landing gear fittings are made in one piece from side to side".Can I assume that he's referring to using a single strip of steel to fabricateboth the right and left side landing gear / flying strut fittings (under the ash cross-member)?Finally, did you use weld-on or bolt-on axles, and how did you get the properwheel alignment?Thanks for all your help- I'm still learning, and anxiously awaiting our firstflight. (It seems so long from now!)-Bill> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:37:54 -0600
Pietenpol-List: RE: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
-----Original Message-----William C. BeermanSent: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 7:32 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Landing gear questionsSteve,Are you using the original gear design,Original split gear from the 33' plansAlso, I recently located an article associated with the longer fuselagethat states that a current modification to the original design is that"the fuselage landing gear fittings are made in one piece from side toside".Can I assume that he's referring to using a single strip of steel tofabricateboth the right and left side landing gear / flying strut fittings (under theash cross-member)?I believe that is correct, and is how I would do it next time.Finally, did you use weld-on or bolt-on axles, and how did you get theproperwheel alignment?I welded a sleeve through which the axles slide, and then bolt through. Itwould be best to check out the following photos. I used 3/4" axles withMatco Wheels.http://steve/pietpics.htmSteve_________ ... __________
-----Original Message-----William C. BeermanSent: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 7:32 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Landing gear questionsSteve,Are you using the original gear design,Original split gear from the 33' plansAlso, I recently located an article associated with the longer fuselagethat states that a current modification to the original design is that"the fuselage landing gear fittings are made in one piece from side toside".Can I assume that he's referring to using a single strip of steel tofabricateboth the right and left side landing gear / flying strut fittings (under theash cross-member)?I believe that is correct, and is how I would do it next time.Finally, did you use weld-on or bolt-on axles, and how did you get theproperwheel alignment?I welded a sleeve through which the axles slide, and then bolt through. Itwould be best to check out the following photos. I used 3/4" axles withMatco Wheels.http://steve/pietpics.htmSteve_________ ... __________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: joe czaplicki
Finally, did you use weld-on or bolt-on axles, and how did you get theproperwheel alignment?Oops I forgot to mention how to allign the wheels. I built a jig that Icould assemble the gear vees on with the same geometry as the fuse attachpoints, and relative axle position. I wish I had a picture to show you. Tomake sure that the axles are perfectly alligned I used a section of tubinglong enought to span the distance between both wheels util final welding ofthe axle tubes was accomplished. Removing the V's from the jig after theaxle tubes, and fuse attach points were welded on made for perfect groundtracking later.I found the notes on the jig in one of first newsletters of the BPA.Stevee________________________________________________________________________________
Finally, did you use weld-on or bolt-on axles, and how did you get theproperwheel alignment?Oops I forgot to mention how to allign the wheels. I built a jig that Icould assemble the gear vees on with the same geometry as the fuse attachpoints, and relative axle position. I wish I had a picture to show you. Tomake sure that the axles are perfectly alligned I used a section of tubinglong enought to span the distance between both wheels util final welding ofthe axle tubes was accomplished. Removing the V's from the jig after theaxle tubes, and fuse attach points were welded on made for perfect groundtracking later.I found the notes on the jig in one of first newsletters of the BPA.Stevee________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By:>> steve(at)byu.edu
Hey Guy'sCheck out Read Hamilton's Pietenpol directory. It contains a clear sketch ofthe split gear welding jig. I just got my first copy and it is a gem ofinfomation for Piet builders.Joe CZion, Ill >Steve, >Are you using the original gear design, or a modified Cub gear?>Also, I recently located an article associated with the longer fuselage>that states that a current modification to the original design is that>"the fuselage landing gear fittings are made in one piece from side to side".>Can I assume that he's referring to using a single strip of steel to fabricate>both the right and left side landing gear / flying strut fittings (under the >ash cross-member)?>>Finally, did you use weld-on or bolt-on axles, and how did you get the proper>wheel alignment?>>Thanks for all your help- I'm still learning, and anxiously awaiting our first>flight. (It seems so long from now!)>>-Bill>>> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:37:54 -0600
Hey Guy'sCheck out Read Hamilton's Pietenpol directory. It contains a clear sketch ofthe split gear welding jig. I just got my first copy and it is a gem ofinfomation for Piet builders.Joe CZion, Ill >Steve, >Are you using the original gear design, or a modified Cub gear?>Also, I recently located an article associated with the longer fuselage>that states that a current modification to the original design is that>"the fuselage landing gear fittings are made in one piece from side to side".>Can I assume that he's referring to using a single strip of steel to fabricate>both the right and left side landing gear / flying strut fittings (under the >ash cross-member)?>>Finally, did you use weld-on or bolt-on axles, and how did you get the proper>wheel alignment?>>Thanks for all your help- I'm still learning, and anxiously awaiting our first>flight. (It seems so long from now!)>>-Bill>>> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:37:54 -0600
Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: Dean Dayton
Thanks Joe,Where can Read Hamiltons Piet Directory be found?Mike________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Joe,Where can Read Hamiltons Piet Directory be found?Mike________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear questions
Original Posted By: JOSEPH SWITHIN
In building the wooden landing gear "to the plans", the thing to keep in mind isthat the wooden gear, as drawn, was designed for use on the FGM fuselage, with26" diameter wheels, without brakes. It should be perfectly positioned forTHAT application. The wooden gear can be used on the other two fuselages as well,but with adjustments made as required.It has been recommended many times that if brakes are used, the axle should bemoved forward a bit (maybe a couple of inches), relative to the CG. However, ifthe axle is too far forward, the plane will not handle well on the ground, asthere will be too much weight aft of the wheels (the point of contact with theimmovable earth).Effectively, the landing gear attachment points are fixed (located at the liftstrut attachment brackets, which are related to the fuselage structure, and ashcross-piece, etc) and the axle position is adjustable (until you actually buildit). If you're building the "long" fuselage, you've got some head scratchingto do to figure out your landing gear attachment points, since they are notshown in the drawings. By adjusting the lengths of the landing gear legs, theaxle position can be shifted fore or aft as needed. At the same time, the deckangle can also be adjusted as needed to suit the diameter of wheels that youhave chosen for your plane. There - that should be as clear as mud.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:54:56 -0700 (PDT)
In building the wooden landing gear "to the plans", the thing to keep in mind isthat the wooden gear, as drawn, was designed for use on the FGM fuselage, with26" diameter wheels, without brakes. It should be perfectly positioned forTHAT application. The wooden gear can be used on the other two fuselages as well,but with adjustments made as required.It has been recommended many times that if brakes are used, the axle should bemoved forward a bit (maybe a couple of inches), relative to the CG. However, ifthe axle is too far forward, the plane will not handle well on the ground, asthere will be too much weight aft of the wheels (the point of contact with theimmovable earth).Effectively, the landing gear attachment points are fixed (located at the liftstrut attachment brackets, which are related to the fuselage structure, and ashcross-piece, etc) and the axle position is adjustable (until you actually buildit). If you're building the "long" fuselage, you've got some head scratchingto do to figure out your landing gear attachment points, since they are notshown in the drawings. By adjusting the lengths of the landing gear legs, theaxle position can be shifted fore or aft as needed. At the same time, the deckangle can also be adjusted as needed to suit the diameter of wheels that youhave chosen for your plane. There - that should be as clear as mud.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:54:56 -0700 (PDT)