Original Posted By: Doug Dever
Hey Guys, I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my ribs.Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued the gussets.I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious time I dohave. I have a three year old, a month old baby, a wife, and a full time jobw/ OT. The only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM before work. Not tryingto be hasty here, I just want to build a safe airplane in a somewhat timelyand efficient manner. Thanks in advance!-KyleRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
> Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By:> boschkyle(at)hotmail.com
Tony Bingelis says either way is acceptable. I'm mitering mine. It just makes me feel better:)Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
Tony Bingelis says either way is acceptable. I'm mitering mine. It just makes me feel better:)Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Yeah I hear ya Doug, my conscience is already getting the better of me. I willprobably Just continue with the miter cuts and feel better about myself too :pRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Yeah I hear ya Doug, my conscience is already getting the better of me. I willprobably Just continue with the miter cuts and feel better about myself too :pRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: "Kyle85"
.com>Kyle,I left out the miter on my ribs as it made the pre work a little easier.- However, if you are concerned about strength, do what I did - make yourself two joints, one with the miter, and one without.- Then test to destruction.- Both of my samples failed outside of the gussets in about the same location.- That was good enough for my ability to sleep at night ;-)That said, I do believe the mitered joint would be stronger simply because there is more glue surface area in contact, but the strength is not needed because the adjoining material will fail before the actual joint will.If you do decide to use square ends, make sure you still put some glue on the cut end to seal it during assembly, otherwise you may have a hard time working varnish into the corner enough to seal these surfaces.Dan LoegeringFargo, NDSubject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
.com>Kyle,I left out the miter on my ribs as it made the pre work a little easier.- However, if you are concerned about strength, do what I did - make yourself two joints, one with the miter, and one without.- Then test to destruction.- Both of my samples failed outside of the gussets in about the same location.- That was good enough for my ability to sleep at night ;-)That said, I do believe the mitered joint would be stronger simply because there is more glue surface area in contact, but the strength is not needed because the adjoining material will fail before the actual joint will.If you do decide to use square ends, make sure you still put some glue on the cut end to seal it during assembly, otherwise you may have a hard time working varnish into the corner enough to seal these surfaces.Dan LoegeringFargo, NDSubject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
This is off-topic, but I hope the information might help someone find a job. I'mtrying to share this information with as many people as possible. Please pardonthe post, otherwise.___________________________The job postings were listed today for developmental positions at the LockheedMartin Flight Service Washington Hub in Ashburn, VA. The website shows ten openings.This may be a nice career for people on this list, or someone you know. Pleaseforward this around to any person or group who might be interested.Even if someone doesn't meet the "minimums", I recommend applying anyway. You neverknow.These postings will likely not be up for long, so get your submission completedASAP.To find all ten openings, go to www.lockheedmartinjobs.com and search "AFSS".Please let me know if you have any questions!Wayne BresslerTaildraggers, Inc.www.taildraggersinc.com________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
This is off-topic, but I hope the information might help someone find a job. I'mtrying to share this information with as many people as possible. Please pardonthe post, otherwise.___________________________The job postings were listed today for developmental positions at the LockheedMartin Flight Service Washington Hub in Ashburn, VA. The website shows ten openings.This may be a nice career for people on this list, or someone you know. Pleaseforward this around to any person or group who might be interested.Even if someone doesn't meet the "minimums", I recommend applying anyway. You neverknow.These postings will likely not be up for long, so get your submission completedASAP.To find all ten openings, go to www.lockheedmartinjobs.com and search "AFSS".Please let me know if you have any questions!Wayne BresslerTaildraggers, Inc.www.taildraggersinc.com________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: Dan Loegering
Kyle, I asked this same question a few months ago. Here is a link to that discussion-http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... hlightJohn Kringle posted two photos of bridge gusset plates that answered my questions.For sake of your search time, I have reposted them here. The strength of thejoint is the gusset and the quality of the attachment (glue) between the capstrip,the vertical braces, and the gusset itself. But having said that, I amstill mitering the joints. I just do not worry as much about the miter jointand worry more about getting the best coverage with the T88.Hope that helps--------Semper Fi,Terry HandRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/brid ... __________
Kyle, I asked this same question a few months ago. Here is a link to that discussion-http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... hlightJohn Kringle posted two photos of bridge gusset plates that answered my questions.For sake of your search time, I have reposted them here. The strength of thejoint is the gusset and the quality of the attachment (glue) between the capstrip,the vertical braces, and the gusset itself. But having said that, I amstill mitering the joints. I just do not worry as much about the miter jointand worry more about getting the best coverage with the T88.Hope that helps--------Semper Fi,Terry HandRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/brid ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: "Kyle85"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Miter Joints on ribsKyle,I left out the miter on my ribs as it made the pre work a little easier. However,if you are concerned about strength, do what I did - make yourself two joints,one with the miter, and one without. Then test to destruction. Both ofmy samples failed outside of the gussets in about the same location. That wasgood enough for my ability to sleep at night ;-)That said, I do believe the mitered joint would be stronger simply because thereis more glue surface area in contact, but the strength is not needed becausethe adjoining material will fail before the actual joint will.If you do decide to use square ends, make sure you still put some glue on the cutend to seal it during assembly, otherwise you may have a hard time workingvarnish into the corner enough to seal these surfaces.Dan LoegeringFargo, NDSubject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Miter Joints on ribsKyle,I left out the miter on my ribs as it made the pre work a little easier. However,if you are concerned about strength, do what I did - make yourself two joints,one with the miter, and one without. Then test to destruction. Both ofmy samples failed outside of the gussets in about the same location. That wasgood enough for my ability to sleep at night ;-)That said, I do believe the mitered joint would be stronger simply because thereis more glue surface area in contact, but the strength is not needed becausethe adjoining material will fail before the actual joint will.If you do decide to use square ends, make sure you still put some glue on the cutend to seal it during assembly, otherwise you may have a hard time workingvarnish into the corner enough to seal these surfaces.Dan LoegeringFargo, NDSubject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: Kenneth Howe
Dan,I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you mentioned it here,I will keep it here as part of this thread.I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength of my wingribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how. Could you elaborateon how you did that? What were your methods and what were your results?Did you change anything about the way that you built your ribs as a result?Thanks in advance for the information.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Dan,I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you mentioned it here,I will keep it here as part of this thread.I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength of my wingribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how. Could you elaborateon how you did that? What were your methods and what were your results?Did you change anything about the way that you built your ribs as a result?Thanks in advance for the information.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Terry,Here's a simple rig I set up for testing my gluing technique. I glued up the sample in my jig, clamping the same way I do for a full rib. The sand bags are 10lbs each. I also have a rig for testing a full rib, but unfortunately no pictures. For the full rib I have two 4' spar sections (lumber store pine) and I center 1 rib on the spars. I have 4x4s with a 3/4" slot cut in them at 14 degree angle to simulate high angle of attack. The stub spar and rib assembly is set inverted on the saw horses with the nose of the rib pointed down the 14 degrees. Distribute the sand bags chordwise along the rib. KenOn Sep 28, 2011, at 7:44 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:> > Dan,> > I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you mentioned it here, I will keep it here as part of this thread.> > I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength of my wing ribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how. Could you elaborate on how you did that? What were your methods and what were your results? Did you change anything about the way that you built your ribs as a result?> > Thanks in advance for the information.> > --------> Semper Fi,> > Terry Hand> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 413#353413> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
Terry,Here's a simple rig I set up for testing my gluing technique. I glued up the sample in my jig, clamping the same way I do for a full rib. The sand bags are 10lbs each. I also have a rig for testing a full rib, but unfortunately no pictures. For the full rib I have two 4' spar sections (lumber store pine) and I center 1 rib on the spars. I have 4x4s with a 3/4" slot cut in them at 14 degree angle to simulate high angle of attack. The stub spar and rib assembly is set inverted on the saw horses with the nose of the rib pointed down the 14 degrees. Distribute the sand bags chordwise along the rib. KenOn Sep 28, 2011, at 7:44 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:> > Dan,> > I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you mentioned it here, I will keep it here as part of this thread.> > I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength of my wing ribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how. Could you elaborate on how you did that? What were your methods and what were your results? Did you change anything about the way that you built your ribs as a result?> > Thanks in advance for the information.> > --------> Semper Fi,> > Terry Hand> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 413#353413> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Ohh, now look at that. Strange how we look at things differently. All of my verticalswere butted to the ribs while the diagonals were fitted in between theverticals... opposite of yours. I guess there is no right or wrong way structurally,but that just looks more difficult to me, although it is essentiallythe same. --------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Ohh, now look at that. Strange how we look at things differently. All of my verticalswere butted to the ribs while the diagonals were fitted in between theverticals... opposite of yours. I guess there is no right or wrong way structurally,but that just looks more difficult to me, although it is essentiallythe same. --------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: "Bob edson"
I mitered all of mine in my Piet. But since then I've rebuilt some Aeronca andTaylorcraft wings with the same type of built up wood ribs. Both of them usedsquare joints in theirs. This past spring the L-2 wing I built has all squaredoff pieces which is right off of the prints. It went amazingly faster. Iwas able to build the set of ribs in a matter of days instead of months. Thankyou Taylorcraft.
The strength really is in the gussett.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I mitered all of mine in my Piet. But since then I've rebuilt some Aeronca andTaylorcraft wings with the same type of built up wood ribs. Both of them usedsquare joints in theirs. This past spring the L-2 wing I built has all squaredoff pieces which is right off of the prints. It went amazingly faster. Iwas able to build the set of ribs in a matter of days instead of months. Thankyou Taylorcraft.
The strength really is in the gussett.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Mark, I had Michael's video before I started my ribs but I did mine as you did -- his way looked way too complicated for me. I wonder which is stronger. According to the post regarding the joint test (with the sand bags) it really doesn't matter -- the rib cap strip is going to break before the joint, anyway.----- Original Message -----
Mark, I had Michael's video before I started my ribs but I did mine as you did -- his way looked way too complicated for me. I wonder which is stronger. According to the post regarding the joint test (with the sand bags) it really doesn't matter -- the rib cap strip is going to break before the joint, anyway.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: "flea"
Where are you located Jeff? Just curious... wondering if N6EJ will be leavingour area.
--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Where are you located Jeff? Just curious... wondering if N6EJ will be leavingour area.
--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribsRe: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aerolite glue
Original Posted By: piperj3cubflyer
K5YAC wrote:> Ohh, now look at that. Strange how we look at things differently. All of myverticals were butted to the ribs while the diagonals were fitted in betweenthe verticals... opposite of yours. I guess there is no right or wrong way structurally,but that just looks more difficult to me, although it is essentiallythe same. > > All of my verticals are butted up against the capstrips as well. I found it tobe much easier and faster that way. I have a baggy of gussets cut out and readyto go, though I must be honest all of my gussets are the same size with theexception of the nose. I can have a rib lad out and glued up in around 30 minutesusing my jig, a sharp mechanical pencil, and a bandsaw. All verticals aresquare (as much as they can be) and all of the diagonals will have two anglesat each end marked out with the sharp pencil, then it's just a matter of a fewseconds in the saw for each piece. JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aerolite glue
K5YAC wrote:> Ohh, now look at that. Strange how we look at things differently. All of myverticals were butted to the ribs while the diagonals were fitted in betweenthe verticals... opposite of yours. I guess there is no right or wrong way structurally,but that just looks more difficult to me, although it is essentiallythe same. > > All of my verticals are butted up against the capstrips as well. I found it tobe much easier and faster that way. I have a baggy of gussets cut out and readyto go, though I must be honest all of my gussets are the same size with theexception of the nose. I can have a rib lad out and glued up in around 30 minutesusing my jig, a sharp mechanical pencil, and a bandsaw. All verticals aresquare (as much as they can be) and all of the diagonals will have two anglesat each end marked out with the sharp pencil, then it's just a matter of a fewseconds in the saw for each piece. JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aerolite glue
Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
Original Posted By: "Kyle85"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > Hey Guys=2C I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my ribs.> Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued the gussets. I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious time I do have. I have a three year old=2C a month old baby=2C a wife=2C and a full time job w/ OT. The only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM before work. Not trying to be hasty here=2C I just want to build a safe airplane in a somewhat timely and efficient manner. Thanks in advance!> -Kyle> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 359#353359> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > Hey Guys=2C I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my ribs.> Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued the gussets. I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious time I do have. I have a three year old=2C a month old baby=2C a wife=2C and a full time job w/ OT. The only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM before work. Not trying to be hasty here=2C I just want to build a safe airplane in a somewhat timely and efficient manner. Thanks in advance!> -Kyle> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 359#353359> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs