Original Posted By: Steve
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.> Time to roll the dice an reveal my ignorance in public. First the > story,then questions: I rolled the airplane out of the garage on > Saturday night> to run the engine for the first time in a few years since it has > been down> for repairs. Having pulled the engine through a few times to make > surethings were lubricated, I switched on the left mag and gave the > prop a> turn. I repeated the process, a lot. The engine did not start or > even act> like it might. A whiff of the exhaust led me to believe that there > was a> fuel mixture reaching the cylinders, so I turned my attention to the> ignition system. I decided to check the grounding of the p-leads > and was> alarmed (initially) that I found continuity between the post and > the case.> Removing the leads showed me the switch was good. In my state of > alarm I> took the top off the left mag to check for a short, cracking the sight> window in the process. As I probed around in there, It occurred to > me that> there could be an inductive coupling to the case. A check of a > generalschematic supported that Idea. Rats, cracked window for > what. A few> youtube videos later I started wondering if something was wrong > with the> impulse coupling. Turning the prop yielded no audible click. Hmm.> Thinking back, it seems other experienced pilots have seemed to have> struggles starting my airplane, back before I had to fix it. > They'd give> it a few turns and express some dismay, Then I'd have them hold the> airplane while I gave it my usual mighty heave (I've never known > anythingdifferent, but sometimes it would be enough to get a full > turn out of the> prop.) So the possibility that I've never had a functional impulse> coupling has now entered my head...> > Questions:> --What can I use for or where can I get a timing sight window > (and while> I'm at it a lid gasket and other sundry parts) for m SF4RN> --Should I be able to hear the impulse coupling click when > pulling the> propeller around?> -- I could stick a bolt in a high tension terminal and feel for > a shock,> should that give me confidence that the mag is otherwise > functional, or> should I pull a plug and see if it sparks?> --How likely is it that my cores need to be re-magnitized.> > Thanks for the help...> -- > Andrew Eldredge> Provo, UT________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 22:50:38 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
Original Posted By: Andrew Eldredge
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
Re: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
Original Posted By: Andrew Eldredge
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.Some planes only had the impulse coupling on one Mag. Not sure why or what planes.But I have heard some old pilots/mechanics mention it. Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.Some planes only had the impulse coupling on one Mag. Not sure why or what planes.But I have heard some old pilots/mechanics mention it. Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today....
Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
I like it! Looking good so far to head home today. If tomorrow is just one ofthose exception nice days, I wouldn't mind flying south to meet you somewhereas well. Haven't taken her anywhere but local since the big journey home. Justsitting here in a lounge on short call, don't really have anything betterto do than go play around on runwayfinder... see what's on the way. When I'm home,I'm just home, no work schedule to work around on those days.I have a very eclectic schedule, so just call and see if I'm around next time aroundor whenever. I'm not the type who needs advance notice, however, if youdo know ahead of time, I can try to play with my sked to increase the odds ofbeing there.Cheers,Tools, or Notools, or Notyetools, or whatever!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I like it! Looking good so far to head home today. If tomorrow is just one ofthose exception nice days, I wouldn't mind flying south to meet you somewhereas well. Haven't taken her anywhere but local since the big journey home. Justsitting here in a lounge on short call, don't really have anything betterto do than go play around on runwayfinder... see what's on the way. When I'm home,I'm just home, no work schedule to work around on those days.I have a very eclectic schedule, so just call and see if I'm around next time aroundor whenever. I'm not the type who needs advance notice, however, if youdo know ahead of time, I can try to play with my sked to increase the odds ofbeing there.Cheers,Tools, or Notools, or Notyetools, or whatever!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today....
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Wow another Piet close by!You could fly to Carrollton this Saturday, we are flying 125 or so YoungEagles (if the weather holds). Or we might fly up to see you at anothertime. Don't think we could get lost as it is just up US Hwy 27.Barry DavisNX973BP -----Original Message-----
Wow another Piet close by!You could fly to Carrollton this Saturday, we are flying 125 or so YoungEagles (if the weather holds). Or we might fly up to see you at anothertime. Don't think we could get lost as it is just up US Hwy 27.Barry DavisNX973BP -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
Original Posted By: Andrew Eldredge
Andrew, Most SF4RN-8 Mags do not have a impulse coupling. There were a few but not many. If you hear a clank in the engine as it turns over then you have an impulse. If no clank you don't have an impulse. You will have to modify your Armstrong starter procedure. It requires a good hard twist to get the most fire outta you mags. Good luck Bro. DaveDave Nielsensentuchows(at)aol.com-----Original Message-----
Andrew, Most SF4RN-8 Mags do not have a impulse coupling. There were a few but not many. If you hear a clank in the engine as it turns over then you have an impulse. If no clank you don't have an impulse. You will have to modify your Armstrong starter procedure. It requires a good hard twist to get the most fire outta you mags. Good luck Bro. DaveDave Nielsensentuchows(at)aol.com-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues
Original Posted By: "dgaldrich"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issues> Andrew, I have not worked on any magnetos since my A&P school years > ago, however, I WILL be soon as I go through and rebuild my engine. > Do you have an overhaul/rebuild manual for your specific mag.? > From what I have seen in my manuals, ( Eisemann )fixing/repairing > mags. is pretty straight forward. I bet you could fix what ails > your mag.(s) no problem.> > Michael Perez> Karetaker Aero> www.karetakeraero.com> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issues> Andrew, I have not worked on any magnetos since my A&P school years > ago, however, I WILL be soon as I go through and rebuild my engine. > Do you have an overhaul/rebuild manual for your specific mag.? > From what I have seen in my manuals, ( Eisemann )fixing/repairing > mags. is pretty straight forward. I bet you could fix what ails > your mag.(s) no problem.> > Michael Perez> Karetaker Aero> www.karetakeraero.com> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues
Re: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issues
Original Posted By: Andrew Eldredge
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issuesAndrew,Sorry to hear you're having starting issues. Dumb question but did you try starting the engine on the R mag only? Most small non-electricContinentals use an impulse on the L mag and non-impulse on the right and that's the way my Piet is setup but I always start on both becauseit just starts easier that way.You may in fact have an impulse mag on the L but the spring may be broken. A photo of the spring is shown in this web page.http://www.sacskyranch.com/bendix.htmMike C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 13:57:25 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issues
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issuesAndrew,Sorry to hear you're having starting issues. Dumb question but did you try starting the engine on the R mag only? Most small non-electricContinentals use an impulse on the L mag and non-impulse on the right and that's the way my Piet is setup but I always start on both becauseit just starts easier that way.You may in fact have an impulse mag on the L but the spring may be broken. A photo of the spring is shown in this web page.http://www.sacskyranch.com/bendix.htmMike C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 13:57:25 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issues
Re: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issues
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issuesIn the "real" plane world (Certified.) There can be only one. Slick seems to havetaken over the world. My buddies 65HP Champ Had bendix mags. We could not find parts for them to overhaulthem. So he bought new slick mags, wire harnesses, and plugs. Sure runs good.Surewas expensive (I think about $2300 after core exchange.)TCM (Continental) owns Bendix but seems to not be producing parts. Champion spark plugs owns Slick. Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issuesIn the "real" plane world (Certified.) There can be only one. Slick seems to havetaken over the world. My buddies 65HP Champ Had bendix mags. We could not find parts for them to overhaulthem. So he bought new slick mags, wire harnesses, and plugs. Sure runs good.Surewas expensive (I think about $2300 after core exchange.)TCM (Continental) owns Bendix but seems to not be producing parts. Champion spark plugs owns Slick. Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
As Mike says, mags really are pretty simple devices. They come apart in a straightforward manner and actually do have a set of internal points like older carsfor what is called "internal" timing. Remember "dwell"? In any event, theshop manual will tell you how to take them apart, inspect, and reassemble.Magnetos are very similar to the kind of ignition systems many of us grew up playingwith in cars. A magnetic field is created in a coil and its collapse generatesa spark. With cars, the power to create this field comes from the battery.In magnetos, the field is generated internally by what amounts to a permanentmagnet generator. Same field collapsing principle creating a high voltagespark but the power source is different. In both cars and aircraft magnetos,this collapse is triggered by points. With cars, you effectively set thetiming twice -- first internally by setting the points gap -- aka dwell -- andsecond externally by setting the distributor. Same with magnetos. You set thepoints and then set the external timing. In both cases the points have a capacitor across them to absorb the voltage spikewhen the points open and that prevents the points from burning up in a tinyimitation of an arc welder. Note that a defective condenser will mess up theprocess if it's either open ("not condensing") and causing the points to burnup, or if it's shorted out keeping the points from doing anything productive.I've seen both in the venerable Lucas ignition systems well known by fans ofEnglish cars, but I digress.The point of this rather long post is that it's probably worthwhile looking deeperinto the guts of the magneto rather than fixating on the impulse coupling.If you've got it out, there's no excuse not to.DaveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:37:38 -0500 (EST)
As Mike says, mags really are pretty simple devices. They come apart in a straightforward manner and actually do have a set of internal points like older carsfor what is called "internal" timing. Remember "dwell"? In any event, theshop manual will tell you how to take them apart, inspect, and reassemble.Magnetos are very similar to the kind of ignition systems many of us grew up playingwith in cars. A magnetic field is created in a coil and its collapse generatesa spark. With cars, the power to create this field comes from the battery.In magnetos, the field is generated internally by what amounts to a permanentmagnet generator. Same field collapsing principle creating a high voltagespark but the power source is different. In both cars and aircraft magnetos,this collapse is triggered by points. With cars, you effectively set thetiming twice -- first internally by setting the points gap -- aka dwell -- andsecond externally by setting the distributor. Same with magnetos. You set thepoints and then set the external timing. In both cases the points have a capacitor across them to absorb the voltage spikewhen the points open and that prevents the points from burning up in a tinyimitation of an arc welder. Note that a defective condenser will mess up theprocess if it's either open ("not condensing") and causing the points to burnup, or if it's shorted out keeping the points from doing anything productive.I've seen both in the venerable Lucas ignition systems well known by fans ofEnglish cars, but I digress.The point of this rather long post is that it's probably worthwhile looking deeperinto the guts of the magneto rather than fixating on the impulse coupling.If you've got it out, there's no excuse not to.DaveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:37:38 -0500 (EST)
> Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>> Time to roll the dice an reveal my ignorance in public. First the >> story,then questions: I rolled the airplane out of the garage on >> Saturday night>> to run the engine for the first time in a few years since it has >> been down>> for repairs. Having pulled the engine through a few times to make >> surethings were lubricated, I switched on the left mag and gave the >> prop a>> turn. I repeated the process, a lot. The engine did not start or >> even act>> like it might. A whiff of the exhaust led me to believe that there >> was a>> fuel mixture reaching the cylinders, so I turned my attention to the>> ignition system. I decided to check the grounding of the p-leads >> and was>> alarmed (initially) that I found continuity between the post and >> the case.>> Removing the leads showed me the switch was good. In my state of >> alarm I>> took the top off the left mag to check for a short, cracking the sight>> window in the process. As I probed around in there, It occurred to >> me that>> there could be an inductive coupling to the case. A check of a >> generalschematic supported that Idea. Rats, cracked window for >> what. A few>> youtube videos later I started wondering if something was wrong >> with the>> impulse coupling. Turning the prop yielded no audible click. Hmm.>> Thinking back, it seems other experienced pilots have seemed to have>> struggles starting my airplane, back before I had to fix it. >> They'd give>> it a few turns and express some dismay, Then I'd have them hold the>> airplane while I gave it my usual mighty heave (I've never known >> anythingdifferent, but sometimes it would be enough to get a full >> turn out of the>> prop.) So the possibility that I've never had a functional impulse>> coupling has now entered my head...>> >> Questions:>> --What can I use for or where can I get a timing sight window >> (and while>> I'm at it a lid gasket and other sundry parts) for m SF4RN>> --Should I be able to hear the impulse coupling click when >> pulling the>> propeller around?>> -- I could stick a bolt in a high tension terminal and feel for >> a shock,>> should that give me confidence that the mag is otherwise >> functional, or>> should I pull a plug and see if it sparks?>> --How likely is it that my cores need to be re-magnitized.>> >> Thanks for the help...>> -- >> Andrew Eldredge>> Provo, UT>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 08:22:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>> Time to roll the dice an reveal my ignorance in public. First the >> story,then questions: I rolled the airplane out of the garage on >> Saturday night>> to run the engine for the first time in a few years since it has >> been down>> for repairs. Having pulled the engine through a few times to make >> surethings were lubricated, I switched on the left mag and gave the >> prop a>> turn. I repeated the process, a lot. The engine did not start or >> even act>> like it might. A whiff of the exhaust led me to believe that there >> was a>> fuel mixture reaching the cylinders, so I turned my attention to the>> ignition system. I decided to check the grounding of the p-leads >> and was>> alarmed (initially) that I found continuity between the post and >> the case.>> Removing the leads showed me the switch was good. In my state of >> alarm I>> took the top off the left mag to check for a short, cracking the sight>> window in the process. As I probed around in there, It occurred to >> me that>> there could be an inductive coupling to the case. A check of a >> generalschematic supported that Idea. Rats, cracked window for >> what. A few>> youtube videos later I started wondering if something was wrong >> with the>> impulse coupling. Turning the prop yielded no audible click. Hmm.>> Thinking back, it seems other experienced pilots have seemed to have>> struggles starting my airplane, back before I had to fix it. >> They'd give>> it a few turns and express some dismay, Then I'd have them hold the>> airplane while I gave it my usual mighty heave (I've never known >> anythingdifferent, but sometimes it would be enough to get a full >> turn out of the>> prop.) So the possibility that I've never had a functional impulse>> coupling has now entered my head...>> >> Questions:>> --What can I use for or where can I get a timing sight window >> (and while>> I'm at it a lid gasket and other sundry parts) for m SF4RN>> --Should I be able to hear the impulse coupling click when >> pulling the>> propeller around?>> -- I could stick a bolt in a high tension terminal and feel for >> a shock,>> should that give me confidence that the mag is otherwise >> functional, or>> should I pull a plug and see if it sparks?>> --How likely is it that my cores need to be re-magnitized.>> >> Thanks for the help...>> -- >> Andrew Eldredge>> Provo, UT>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 08:22:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00)