Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
One of those little areas in the plans that simply can't be built as drawn. -Vi Kapler put those in just to see if you were paying attention.-The straps are .090" thick, or nearly the same as a piece of 3/32" plywood.- You'll have to figure out how to arrange the doublers so the straps can overlap each other.- I chose to just put the plywood doublers on the wing spars and omit them on the centersection spars, allowing the wing straps to just slip over the centersection straps as shown in the photo below:--Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia------Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: considering a piet build
Pietenpol-List: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
how does it fly ( climb, handle, stall , ground hanle) compared to a cub. previouslyowned a 1940 c85 cub. thinking of building one and teaching my two boys( now 8 and 12 years) how to fly in it.also; love the wood struts, and gear, do builders just cover in spar varnish orfiberglass or just epoxy resin?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
how does it fly ( climb, handle, stall , ground hanle) compared to a cub. previouslyowned a 1940 c85 cub. thinking of building one and teaching my two boys( now 8 and 12 years) how to fly in it.also; love the wood struts, and gear, do builders just cover in spar varnish orfiberglass or just epoxy resin?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Nightmare?First, what is your real name and where do you live? We kind of like toknow names so we can put them with faces when we meet at Brodhead.Second, a Pietenpol flies more like a Cub than anything else I've ever flown- that's why I built one. I used to own a 1946 J-3 with a Continental 65and chose to build a Pietenpol because I couldn't afford to buy a Cub attoday's prices.I will say having flown both types, the Cub style "Improved" Pietenpol gearis easier to land than the straight axle wire wheel variety. If I werebuilding one with an eye towards teaching kids to fly in it, I would buildthe Cub-Style gear.As for the wood struts, I have laminated spruce landing gear struts on mineand simply coated them with 4 coats of epoxy varnish, and they've held upvery well in nearly 8 years of flying. For wooden lift struts and cabanestruts I expect epoxy varnish would do even better (the landing gear takesmore abuse from tall grass, rocks, etc.).Good Luck!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Nightmare?First, what is your real name and where do you live? We kind of like toknow names so we can put them with faces when we meet at Brodhead.Second, a Pietenpol flies more like a Cub than anything else I've ever flown- that's why I built one. I used to own a 1946 J-3 with a Continental 65and chose to build a Pietenpol because I couldn't afford to buy a Cub attoday's prices.I will say having flown both types, the Cub style "Improved" Pietenpol gearis easier to land than the straight axle wire wheel variety. If I werebuilding one with an eye towards teaching kids to fly in it, I would buildthe Cub-Style gear.As for the wood struts, I have laminated spruce landing gear struts on mineand simply coated them with 4 coats of epoxy varnish, and they've held upvery well in nearly 8 years of flying. For wooden lift struts and cabanestruts I expect epoxy varnish would do even better (the landing gear takesmore abuse from tall grass, rocks, etc.).Good Luck!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Since the center section wing straps go on the inside of the wing straps I am assumingthe plywood on the wing must be cut out for clearance? Looks like I missedthis on the plans
John--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ws1_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Since the center section wing straps go on the inside of the wing straps I am assumingthe plywood on the wing must be cut out for clearance? Looks like I missedthis on the plans
John--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ws1_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip BowsOriginal Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
I'll be darn... the plans don't show it that way! The only braces I have are theones shown in the plans (in red), but the plans also show a spruce wing tipbow, where I made mine from white pine. Perhaps I should look at adding thecompression strut and additional braces that the 66 model have.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing ... __________
I'll be darn... the plans don't show it that way! The only braces I have are theones shown in the plans (in red), but the plans also show a spruce wing tipbow, where I made mine from white pine. Perhaps I should look at adding thecompression strut and additional braces that the 66 model have.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Hinge Strap
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
One of those little areas in the plans that simply can't be built as drawn.Vi Kapler put those in just to see if you were paying attention.The straps are .090" thick, or nearly the same as a piece of 3/32" plywood.You'll have to figure out how to arrange the doublers so the straps canoverlap each other. I chose to just put the plywood doublers on the wingspars and omit them on the centersection spars, allowing the wing straps tojust slip over the centersection straps as shown in the photo below:Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
One of those little areas in the plans that simply can't be built as drawn.Vi Kapler put those in just to see if you were paying attention.The straps are .090" thick, or nearly the same as a piece of 3/32" plywood.You'll have to figure out how to arrange the doublers so the straps canoverlap each other. I chose to just put the plywood doublers on the wingspars and omit them on the centersection spars, allowing the wing straps tojust slip over the centersection straps as shown in the photo below:Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
You are right John, but it isn't really pointed out in the plans.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 08:14:32 -0700 (PDT)
You are right John, but it isn't really pointed out in the plans.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 08:14:32 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Hinge Strap
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
Original Posted By: John Hofmann
Or you can just remove your wing straps and Dremel/file/sand the material you needremoved for clearance.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Or you can just remove your wing straps and Dremel/file/sand the material you needremoved for clearance.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Original Posted By: "pineymb"
As an owner of both I have to concur with what Jack stated. The Piet is very similar to the Cub in lot of ways. A few observations below:The Piet is a bit faster. My Cub is slow and 502rocket is pretty quick. I cruise easily at 75-77 and my Cub cruises at about 72. The sight lines are similar. Backseat solo gives the same lack of visibility that at Cub gives, especially on the ground. It is easier to lean your head out of the Piet to see around.Major flight numbers are about the same for both. Climb and final speeds the same. The Piet does have a much worse glide ratio than a Cub. Just plan accordingly.Stall is sharper than a Cub. Nothing bad but it drops quickly and is easily picked up with proper technique. Te be fair I have vortex generators on the Cub so it does not really stall at all. It just kind of mushes and nods its head.The Cub is much easier to load/unload and is more capable of giving the fat guy a ride. It does have seven more feet of wing and is more tolerant of CG and gross weight issues.The Cub has brakes for both occupants, a must for instruction. I have not seen a Piet that had brakes in the front but I bet it has been done with weight penalties and seldom use.The Cub rides turbulence better. When in bumps in a Cub one seems to instinctively be able to predict the airplane's response. In the Pietenpol it is "wahoo" we are along for the ride. I just pull the shoulder strap a little tighter. My daughter loves it because "it is like being in a roller coaster."Cub has a door that closes and some semblance of cabin heat, however, nothing is quite like the feeling of open cockpit.That is about all I can think of for now.-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2424 American LaneMadison, WI 53704Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Apr 16, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> Nightmare, welcome.> > I can't answer any flying characteristic questions as my plane is still being built. However, on the wood...a varnish or some sort of wood protectant is needed. I use spar varnish on mine.> > Personally, I am fine with call signs.> > Michael Perez> Pietenpol HINT Videos> Karetaker Aero> www.karetakeraero.com> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
As an owner of both I have to concur with what Jack stated. The Piet is very similar to the Cub in lot of ways. A few observations below:The Piet is a bit faster. My Cub is slow and 502rocket is pretty quick. I cruise easily at 75-77 and my Cub cruises at about 72. The sight lines are similar. Backseat solo gives the same lack of visibility that at Cub gives, especially on the ground. It is easier to lean your head out of the Piet to see around.Major flight numbers are about the same for both. Climb and final speeds the same. The Piet does have a much worse glide ratio than a Cub. Just plan accordingly.Stall is sharper than a Cub. Nothing bad but it drops quickly and is easily picked up with proper technique. Te be fair I have vortex generators on the Cub so it does not really stall at all. It just kind of mushes and nods its head.The Cub is much easier to load/unload and is more capable of giving the fat guy a ride. It does have seven more feet of wing and is more tolerant of CG and gross weight issues.The Cub has brakes for both occupants, a must for instruction. I have not seen a Piet that had brakes in the front but I bet it has been done with weight penalties and seldom use.The Cub rides turbulence better. When in bumps in a Cub one seems to instinctively be able to predict the airplane's response. In the Pietenpol it is "wahoo" we are along for the ride. I just pull the shoulder strap a little tighter. My daughter loves it because "it is like being in a roller coaster."Cub has a door that closes and some semblance of cabin heat, however, nothing is quite like the feeling of open cockpit.That is about all I can think of for now.-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2424 American LaneMadison, WI 53704Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Apr 16, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> Nightmare, welcome.> > I can't answer any flying characteristic questions as my plane is still being built. However, on the wood...a varnish or some sort of wood protectant is needed. I use spar varnish on mine.> > Personally, I am fine with call signs.> > Michael Perez> Pietenpol HINT Videos> Karetaker Aero> www.karetakeraero.com> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Original Posted By: "C N Campbell"
Another wing tip bow example with a built up last rib and capping for additionalstrength. Not sure how much difference this makes when in compression but probablycan't hurt.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________
Another wing tip bow example with a built up last rib and capping for additionalstrength. Not sure how much difference this makes when in compression but probablycan't hurt.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Need some help....off topic...
Original Posted By: "Jim Markle"
Jim, I rebuilt a Piper PA22 a few years back and when I got ready to fly it, I took the spark plugs out and turned the engine over with the starter until the oil pressure built up. I then reinstalled the plugs, put fuel in the tanks, and started the engine normally. The engine ran fine until I sold it a couple of years later. A little MMO in the oil also helped a lot. It frees the rings and gives much better compression. Chuck----- Original Message -----
Jim, I rebuilt a Piper PA22 a few years back and when I got ready to fly it, I took the spark plugs out and turned the engine over with the starter until the oil pressure built up. I then reinstalled the plugs, put fuel in the tanks, and started the engine normally. The engine ran fine until I sold it a couple of years later. A little MMO in the oil also helped a lot. It frees the rings and gives much better compression. Chuck----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Need some help....off topic...
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
As it typical when building a Pietenpol, if you look closely, its on the plans.Take note of the wood grain on the drawings then you will notice there is 3/32-inchplywood under the straps on the wing side and a triangle piece of 3/32-inchply that is below (below not under) the strap on the center section side. Center section side http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chr ... 78.JPGWing Side http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chr ... Sacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Need some help....off topic...
As it typical when building a Pietenpol, if you look closely, its on the plans.Take note of the wood grain on the drawings then you will notice there is 3/32-inchplywood under the straps on the wing side and a triangle piece of 3/32-inchply that is below (below not under) the strap on the center section side. Center section side http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chr ... 78.JPGWing Side http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chr ... Sacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Need some help....off topic...
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Jim, I know the guy who did some of the maintenance and quite possibly the lastannual on that airplane. Shot you a text.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
Jim, I know the guy who did some of the maintenance and quite possibly the lastannual on that airplane. Shot you a text.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I think what John is talking about is the area in red. It looks pretty obvious,but isn't really called out as needing clearance.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
I think what John is talking about is the area in red. It looks pretty obvious,but isn't really called out as needing clearance.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
Original Posted By: "Kringle"
Update with tail on and wheels on. some more pictures, Bob________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
Update with tail on and wheels on. some more pictures, Bob________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
Original Posted By: "Bob edson"
When I read some of the replies, mentioning how the wingtip bow is actually a compressionstrut, I thought "that can't be right", since it is curved, and itsits out on the ends of the spars (fastened with brackets and screws). But thenI took another look at the plans, and saw that it actually would act as a compressionstrut. Not really an ideal design , since all of the compressive forcesare actually acting on the screws, rather than on the strut itself. Whilethe 1966 BHP wing shown in Dan's photo does add a little bit of weight, it doesseem to be a better design (in terms of providing a proper compression strutat the wing tip). When the time comes, I think I'll build mine like that (orsimilarly).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
When I read some of the replies, mentioning how the wingtip bow is actually a compressionstrut, I thought "that can't be right", since it is curved, and itsits out on the ends of the spars (fastened with brackets and screws). But thenI took another look at the plans, and saw that it actually would act as a compressionstrut. Not really an ideal design , since all of the compressive forcesare actually acting on the screws, rather than on the strut itself. Whilethe 1966 BHP wing shown in Dan's photo does add a little bit of weight, it doesseem to be a better design (in terms of providing a proper compression strutat the wing tip). When the time comes, I think I'll build mine like that (orsimilarly).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "nightmare"
Mark is correct but with the right tool (laminate trimmer) the job was easy. Thanksto all for the help. I love this list!--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/stra ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Mark is correct but with the right tool (laminate trimmer) the job was easy. Thanksto all for the help. I love this list!--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/stra ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Wow , you guys are great. thanks for all the quick responses. My name is Paul Donahueand i live in royal palm beach florida (5 miles west of west palm beachint'l). If you don't mind , here is a couple of more questions for you. 1.Has any one built a stretch wing Piet? (i know, stick to the plans) 2. Do builders use AN hardware or is the grade 8 nuts and bolts at the hardwarestore sufficient? (i believe it is same grade steel, usually courser threadingthough at hardware store) 3. I saw Keri Anns webpage, beautiful bird. any nonbias opinions on the removablewing option ? would love to have option of removing or even folding thewings to bring home. 4. are there any piet builders / owners near me? 5. how about opinions on building out of poplar?Thanks again; seems like a tight knit groupRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Wow , you guys are great. thanks for all the quick responses. My name is Paul Donahueand i live in royal palm beach florida (5 miles west of west palm beachint'l). If you don't mind , here is a couple of more questions for you. 1.Has any one built a stretch wing Piet? (i know, stick to the plans) 2. Do builders use AN hardware or is the grade 8 nuts and bolts at the hardwarestore sufficient? (i believe it is same grade steel, usually courser threadingthough at hardware store) 3. I saw Keri Anns webpage, beautiful bird. any nonbias opinions on the removablewing option ? would love to have option of removing or even folding thewings to bring home. 4. are there any piet builders / owners near me? 5. how about opinions on building out of poplar?Thanks again; seems like a tight knit groupRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Paul,Bill Rewey was always talking about building a "Super Pietenpol" with alonger wing, to approximate the wing loading of a Cub. I don't know if anyhave ever been built. Mine has a 6" longer than normal wingspan, but thatwas done to increase the volume in the centersection to give more fuelcapacity. I will say that making such a change has dramatic ripple effectsrunning through the entire airplane. The best flying Pietenpols seem to bethe ones that were built closest to the plans.As Gary said - use aircraft hardware. It is not that much more expensive(maybe less than Grade 8 hardware), and the fine threads will be much moreeffective for getting accurate torques and for preventing loosening due tovibration. Besides, when you are getting bounced around by turbulence, itis reassuring to not have to wonder if your hardware is going to fail.Opinions on folding wings for a Piet? While that is always an attractiveoption for people thinking of building an airplane, I've never seen it donein practice. With a Pietenpol, I think it would be a pain due to having totighten and safety wire the turnbuckles on the bracing wires between thestruts every time you wanted to go flying. Also, many Pietenpols use simplebronze bushings on their axles, and while that is more than adequate for theamount of taxiing done at an airport, I wouldn't take any bets on how long abushing would last being towed at highway speeds. Of course you could loadit on a trailer, but that too is expensive. Weight is critical with theseairplanes, and any wing folding mechanism is going to add weight that youcan ill afford to add. As Walt evans used to say on this list "Simplicateand add Lightness". A wing folding mechanism does neither.There are severl Pietenpol builders/flyers in Florida. I'll leave it tothem to contact you.As Gary said, there have been several Piets built of poplar. It is a goodlight wood. Not as light as spruce (Poplar is 16% heavier than sitkaspruce), but somewhat stronger (Poplar's numbers generally run about 20%higher than spruce), so it has about the same strength to weight ratio. Itworks easily (nearly as easy as spruce, and much better than Douglas Fir,the other common choiceof non-aircraft grade woods). So all in all it isnot a bad choice, particularly if you have a lot of experience in gradingand selecting wood. Bear in mind that if you are choosing a wood other thanaircraft grade spruce just to save money, the cost of the wood in aPietenpol is something around 10% of the total price of the airplane, usingaircraft spruce. You will spend so much more money on other things(primarily the engine) that the cost of wood is insignificant.Good luck with all your choices.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Paul,Bill Rewey was always talking about building a "Super Pietenpol" with alonger wing, to approximate the wing loading of a Cub. I don't know if anyhave ever been built. Mine has a 6" longer than normal wingspan, but thatwas done to increase the volume in the centersection to give more fuelcapacity. I will say that making such a change has dramatic ripple effectsrunning through the entire airplane. The best flying Pietenpols seem to bethe ones that were built closest to the plans.As Gary said - use aircraft hardware. It is not that much more expensive(maybe less than Grade 8 hardware), and the fine threads will be much moreeffective for getting accurate torques and for preventing loosening due tovibration. Besides, when you are getting bounced around by turbulence, itis reassuring to not have to wonder if your hardware is going to fail.Opinions on folding wings for a Piet? While that is always an attractiveoption for people thinking of building an airplane, I've never seen it donein practice. With a Pietenpol, I think it would be a pain due to having totighten and safety wire the turnbuckles on the bracing wires between thestruts every time you wanted to go flying. Also, many Pietenpols use simplebronze bushings on their axles, and while that is more than adequate for theamount of taxiing done at an airport, I wouldn't take any bets on how long abushing would last being towed at highway speeds. Of course you could loadit on a trailer, but that too is expensive. Weight is critical with theseairplanes, and any wing folding mechanism is going to add weight that youcan ill afford to add. As Walt evans used to say on this list "Simplicateand add Lightness". A wing folding mechanism does neither.There are severl Pietenpol builders/flyers in Florida. I'll leave it tothem to contact you.As Gary said, there have been several Piets built of poplar. It is a goodlight wood. Not as light as spruce (Poplar is 16% heavier than sitkaspruce), but somewhat stronger (Poplar's numbers generally run about 20%higher than spruce), so it has about the same strength to weight ratio. Itworks easily (nearly as easy as spruce, and much better than Douglas Fir,the other common choiceof non-aircraft grade woods). So all in all it isnot a bad choice, particularly if you have a lot of experience in gradingand selecting wood. Bear in mind that if you are choosing a wood other thanaircraft grade spruce just to save money, the cost of the wood in aPietenpol is something around 10% of the total price of the airplane, usingaircraft spruce. You will spend so much more money on other things(primarily the engine) that the cost of wood is insignificant.Good luck with all your choices.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Hi Paul - Welcome. This group is a family, and like all families you'll find somedysfunction. Spend some time here and you'll figure out whose advice youreally want. There are a lot of smart, talented people in the group. I personallyseek guidance from builders who have completed a plane and fly it a lot.There's something about "flight proven" that you just can't beat. You'll geta lot of advice from fellows who haven't finished their planes and who don'thave their pilot's license. They're not necessarily wrong, but they're strictlytheoretical.Your questions:1) Jack Phillips built a stretch wing and says he regrets it.2) AN Hardware.3) If you need removable/folding wings you may want to consider another design.4) There are builders in FL.5) Gary Boothe has built an entire airplane from poplar. His workmanship is superb.I'm flying wooden wing struts Gary built for me. Anyway, it's up to you.Spruce is the standard, and the spruce from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty hasbeen graded. In the grand scheme of things there's not that much price advantage.My comments:1) Get familiar with searching the list archives.2) Get the 4 Tony Bingelis books from EAA. EAA's wood and welding books are alsogood. Finally, the FAA AC 43-13...whatever is the bible.3) Plan on attending Brodhead.Again, welcome.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Hi Paul - Welcome. This group is a family, and like all families you'll find somedysfunction. Spend some time here and you'll figure out whose advice youreally want. There are a lot of smart, talented people in the group. I personallyseek guidance from builders who have completed a plane and fly it a lot.There's something about "flight proven" that you just can't beat. You'll geta lot of advice from fellows who haven't finished their planes and who don'thave their pilot's license. They're not necessarily wrong, but they're strictlytheoretical.Your questions:1) Jack Phillips built a stretch wing and says he regrets it.2) AN Hardware.3) If you need removable/folding wings you may want to consider another design.4) There are builders in FL.5) Gary Boothe has built an entire airplane from poplar. His workmanship is superb.I'm flying wooden wing struts Gary built for me. Anyway, it's up to you.Spruce is the standard, and the spruce from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty hasbeen graded. In the grand scheme of things there's not that much price advantage.My comments:1) Get familiar with searching the list archives.2) Get the 4 Tony Bingelis books from EAA. EAA's wood and welding books are alsogood. Finally, the FAA AC 43-13...whatever is the bible.3) Plan on attending Brodhead.Again, welcome.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "nightmare"
Kevin,As a relatively new member, I am aware of these people and seek them out when Itravel to Brodhead. Many on this list, including you, have met me but just don'tremember it. Although I greatly appreciate everyones suggestions and comments,those builders and flyers you've named carry more weight when I make mydecisions. Thanks to all for your help.John--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Kevin,As a relatively new member, I am aware of these people and seek them out when Itravel to Brodhead. Many on this list, including you, have met me but just don'tremember it. Although I greatly appreciate everyones suggestions and comments,those builders and flyers you've named carry more weight when I make mydecisions. Thanks to all for your help.John--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: shad bell
thank you for all the info. i'll search previous entries and order some books toverify this is the plane for me. thanks; Paul DonahueRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 16:56:53 -0700 (PDT)
thank you for all the info. i'll search previous entries and order some books toverify this is the plane for me. thanks; Paul DonahueRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 16:56:53 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "Jerry Dotson"
Bill Church wrote:> Ralph,> > The plans don't list deflections for any of the control surfaces, but in theUK, the LAA has documented the recommended travels, and shows typical ailerondeflection to be 15 Up and 20 Down (that translates to about 3" up and 3 1/2"down.> http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co. ... CAMPER.pdf> > Bill C.If there is going to be any aileron differential at all, wouldn't a sane personwant more Up than Down?--------Bill FrankRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Bill Church wrote:> Ralph,> > The plans don't list deflections for any of the control surfaces, but in theUK, the LAA has documented the recommended travels, and shows typical ailerondeflection to be 15 Up and 20 Down (that translates to about 3" up and 3 1/2"down.> http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co. ... CAMPER.pdf> > Bill C.If there is going to be any aileron differential at all, wouldn't a sane personwant more Up than Down?--------Bill FrankRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
Welcome to the group Paul. I live about 50 miles east of Pensacola,Fl. I extendedthe wingspan on my 1 piece wing. It is 32' 6". The reason I did is my runwayis only 1300 feet long and hope to shorten the take off run some and maybe climba little bit better. I have not flown it yet but hope to have it ready ina couple of months. As to the AN bolts and washers they are cheaper at AircraftSpruce than my local Lowes.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009now covering and painting21" wheelsLycoming O-235 C2CJay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Welcome to the group Paul. I live about 50 miles east of Pensacola,Fl. I extendedthe wingspan on my 1 piece wing. It is 32' 6". The reason I did is my runwayis only 1300 feet long and hope to shorten the take off run some and maybe climba little bit better. I have not flown it yet but hope to have it ready ina couple of months. As to the AN bolts and washers they are cheaper at AircraftSpruce than my local Lowes.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009now covering and painting21" wheelsLycoming O-235 C2CJay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Hi PaulI completely agree with Jack and I built my last Piet with a center swction a foot wider than plans to accomidate larger fuel tanks, then I built the wings to plans. I notice the difference and have flight tested this plane to 1300 lbs.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Hi PaulI completely agree with Jack and I built my last Piet with a center swction a foot wider than plans to accomidate larger fuel tanks, then I built the wings to plans. I notice the difference and have flight tested this plane to 1300 lbs.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
> Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: airlion
Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "Catdesigns"
I have been working on the 787 since it was a product development study in 1994and I STILL would not post a story like that on the Pietenpol site. This siteis an escape from that complex world...!Sometimes I tell people that during the day I work at the "world's largest airplanefactory" and at night I work at "the world's smallest airplane factory" -my one car condo garage. Don't get me wrong, I love my job, yet find the Pietenpolto be extremely personally gratifying...--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
I have been working on the 787 since it was a product development study in 1994and I STILL would not post a story like that on the Pietenpol site. This siteis an escape from that complex world...!Sometimes I tell people that during the day I work at the "world's largest airplanefactory" and at night I work at "the world's smallest airplane factory" -my one car condo garage. Don't get me wrong, I love my job, yet find the Pietenpolto be extremely personally gratifying...--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Pietenpol-List: Re: 787 differences training
Original Posted By: "tools"
"My whole perspective has changed a bit since my trip home from Brodhead last year where I had 2 near misses on disaster, too much for one trip.Dick N"I was curious about this statement so with a little internet snooping found this.http://www.eaa25.org/wp-content/uploads ... Sacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 787 differences training
"My whole perspective has changed a bit since my trip home from Brodhead last year where I had 2 near misses on disaster, too much for one trip.Dick N"I was curious about this statement so with a little internet snooping found this.http://www.eaa25.org/wp-content/uploads ... Sacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 787 differences training
Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
DO NOT spin a Pietenpol, even if you have a parachute (by-the-way would not fitin the cockpit with a pilot anyway). If you have a catastrophic failure, youcould not get out of the plane if you had to.--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
DO NOT spin a Pietenpol, even if you have a parachute (by-the-way would not fitin the cockpit with a pilot anyway). If you have a catastrophic failure, youcould not get out of the plane if you had to.--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "nightmare"
I think spinning a Pietenpol or on that matter any of the early homebuilts needs VERY careful consideration.My Corben Junior is 50+ years old and with a 4130 fuselage frame should be ok. The wings are still wood though!When I learnt to fly in the 60's spinning was an important part of the mid point syllabus and had to be demonstrated left and right during flight test.It gained an air of trepidation but in fact once mastered and demonstrated on test felt very worthwhile.Spinning for the sake of it.... no thanks. Knowing how to respond in such a flight condition is worth it.The one point to make though is that many who knew how to recover still came to grief because when it happened for real they were often to low, probably on that base leg section or steep climb out.Go spin in something aerobatic!RegardsGerrydo no archive________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
I think spinning a Pietenpol or on that matter any of the early homebuilts needs VERY careful consideration.My Corben Junior is 50+ years old and with a 4130 fuselage frame should be ok. The wings are still wood though!When I learnt to fly in the 60's spinning was an important part of the mid point syllabus and had to be demonstrated left and right during flight test.It gained an air of trepidation but in fact once mastered and demonstrated on test felt very worthwhile.Spinning for the sake of it.... no thanks. Knowing how to respond in such a flight condition is worth it.The one point to make though is that many who knew how to recover still came to grief because when it happened for real they were often to low, probably on that base leg section or steep climb out.Go spin in something aerobatic!RegardsGerrydo no archive________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Original Posted By: "nightmare"
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >> mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>> >> > Hello,> >> > I am not putting any ring by the moment, I just want to understand, or> know better about the inspection rings.> > As I saw in lots of pictures and drawings there are 2 kinds of them,> ones have an aluminium (I think Al) hatch to close them, and others have> just a rounf piece of fabric over the a plastic ring.> > The procedure to inspect with the ones with the fabric cover ( I want to> understand ) is: cut the fabric inside the hole, inpect, and put a nuew> piece of fabric... isn't it?> >> > thank you> >> > --------> > Mario Giacummo> > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com> >> >> >> >> > Read this topic online here:> >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 041#371041> >> >======================> &g======> >> >> >>> *>> *>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >> mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>> >> > Hello,> >> > I am not putting any ring by the moment, I just want to understand, or> know better about the inspection rings.> > As I saw in lots of pictures and drawings there are 2 kinds of them,> ones have an aluminium (I think Al) hatch to close them, and others have> just a rounf piece of fabric over the a plastic ring.> > The procedure to inspect with the ones with the fabric cover ( I want to> understand ) is: cut the fabric inside the hole, inpect, and put a nuew> piece of fabric... isn't it?> >> > thank you> >> > --------> > Mario Giacummo> > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com> >> >> >> >> > Read this topic online here:> >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 041#371041> >> >======================> &g======> >> >> >>> *>> *>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build