Original Posted By: airlion
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas pricesI agree with Jack in that flying cross country with another Piet is really, really enjoyable. It makes thetime go by faster and makes for some really good memories.Being out of the flying loop for a while I didn't realize how expensive avgas has gotten. I flew to a nearbyfield yesterday and took 9.1 gallons and it ran $53.24. That's about 2 hours of flying time. Still way cheaperthan a big engine airplane but way more expensive than it was even 5 years ago.I calculated that newly certified Piet using a 65 hp Continental burning 4.3 gph would cost the owner/pilotjust over $1,000 just to fly off the 40 hours of test flying time. No wonder I don't see too many little airplanesburning up the skies around here anymore.In the big scheme of things though us open cockpit pilots north of the Mason Dixon only fly about 20-35 hoursper summer so that's not a lot of fuel money when you compare it with hangar rent and insurance, oil, and beerand pizza thrown in.Mike C.PS- Was a fun flight last night. 9 minutes (non-stop, unrefueled) to Elyria Airport then 6 minutes back. No inflightmeal service was provided.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
Re: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"
I hadn't flown my Pietenpol since last October and have been waiting for some decent weather and temperatures all spring. Finally, on Sunday the thirteenth it was obviously a "Pietenpol evening" and we went flying. It was great to be "back in the saddle" again after being restricted to closed-cabin airplanes for so long.I have been using regular unleaded auto fuel in the Piet for a long time. I drained it and replaced it with 100LL avgas last fall because auto fuel isn't very stable and over time can gum up the carburetor. When I flew the Piet the other evening I noticed that the engine (C85-12F) generally ran better on 100LL. With auto fuel, it always tended to buck a bit when initially increasing revs through the 1000 - 1300 RPM range. Once the engine was thoroughly warmed up this phenomenon disappeared and engine operation was normal. With 100LL there was no roughness or hesitation at all, even when the engine was not completely warmed up. Possibly others have notice the same thing when using auto fuel. Now that auto fuel contains ethanol and the amount of this stuff per gallon will likely increase, we may have some real problems. This does not bode well for the future, in my humble opinion.The main incentive for using auto fuel is price. In US gallons, regular auto fuel here is about $4.50 (+) per gallon and 100LL avgas is about $6.00 (+) per gallon, and the trend is upward. As Mike C. observed, there are fewer little airplanes "burning up the skies", here in Alberta, Canada as well as where he lives. Having been flying for over 61 years, I fear I have seen the best of it--but still hope I am wrong.Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:59:52 -0500
I hadn't flown my Pietenpol since last October and have been waiting for some decent weather and temperatures all spring. Finally, on Sunday the thirteenth it was obviously a "Pietenpol evening" and we went flying. It was great to be "back in the saddle" again after being restricted to closed-cabin airplanes for so long.I have been using regular unleaded auto fuel in the Piet for a long time. I drained it and replaced it with 100LL avgas last fall because auto fuel isn't very stable and over time can gum up the carburetor. When I flew the Piet the other evening I noticed that the engine (C85-12F) generally ran better on 100LL. With auto fuel, it always tended to buck a bit when initially increasing revs through the 1000 - 1300 RPM range. Once the engine was thoroughly warmed up this phenomenon disappeared and engine operation was normal. With 100LL there was no roughness or hesitation at all, even when the engine was not completely warmed up. Possibly others have notice the same thing when using auto fuel. Now that auto fuel contains ethanol and the amount of this stuff per gallon will likely increase, we may have some real problems. This does not bode well for the future, in my humble opinion.The main incentive for using auto fuel is price. In US gallons, regular auto fuel here is about $4.50 (+) per gallon and 100LL avgas is about $6.00 (+) per gallon, and the trend is upward. As Mike C. observed, there are fewer little airplanes "burning up the skies", here in Alberta, Canada as well as where he lives. Having been flying for over 61 years, I fear I have seen the best of it--but still hope I am wrong.Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:59:52 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
Original Posted By: "bradandlinda tds.net"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
RE: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
But...If the Cont. 65 has ever been installed on a homebuilt before, it nolonger is a certified engine. I ran into this while installing a C-85 on myJ3 Cub. The engine had been on a flybaby for less than 10 hours (and it wasin the log book). So it had to be torn down and every part checked andcertified to make it a certified engine again and legal to install on theCub. After all, the insurance companies just love a screw-up like that sothey don't have to pay off in case of a claim. IOW, just because it lookslike a cont 65 does not mean that it is still certified. Barry _____
But...If the Cont. 65 has ever been installed on a homebuilt before, it nolonger is a certified engine. I ran into this while installing a C-85 on myJ3 Cub. The engine had been on a flybaby for less than 10 hours (and it wasin the log book). So it had to be torn down and every part checked andcertified to make it a certified engine again and legal to install on theCub. After all, the insurance companies just love a screw-up like that sothey don't have to pay off in case of a claim. IOW, just because it lookslike a cont 65 does not mean that it is still certified. Barry _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
Original Posted By: Andrew Eldredge
Graham=3BI am very curious to know what carb you have on your C85. My A65 with Stromberg carb never did like auto gas as well as it did avgas=2C but the problem I had with it was dribbling from the carb and flooding when trying to start the engine using auto gas. I set up the float level very carefully=2C but there seems to be just enough difference between the viscosity or specific gravity of auto gas and avgas that the float level needs to be adjusted ever so slightly differently when running one vs. the other. I have since run the A65 and the A75 exclusively on 100LL but was thinking of trying auto gas on the A75 in case it was just the Stromberg on the 65 that didn't like auto gas. Cost of fuel is a minor factor=2C given the minimal number of hours that I fly=2C but convenience is another matter. There is not avgas on the field at San Geronimo but there are gas stations up and down the highway from the field and it's far easier to get 5 gallons of auto gas than it is to fly to Castroville or Hondo to fuel up.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford/Ashland=2C ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 09:37:40 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
Graham=3BI am very curious to know what carb you have on your C85. My A65 with Stromberg carb never did like auto gas as well as it did avgas=2C but the problem I had with it was dribbling from the carb and flooding when trying to start the engine using auto gas. I set up the float level very carefully=2C but there seems to be just enough difference between the viscosity or specific gravity of auto gas and avgas that the float level needs to be adjusted ever so slightly differently when running one vs. the other. I have since run the A65 and the A75 exclusively on 100LL but was thinking of trying auto gas on the A75 in case it was just the Stromberg on the 65 that didn't like auto gas. Cost of fuel is a minor factor=2C given the minimal number of hours that I fly=2C but convenience is another matter. There is not avgas on the field at San Geronimo but there are gas stations up and down the highway from the field and it's far easier to get 5 gallons of auto gas than it is to fly to Castroville or Hondo to fuel up.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"Medford/Ashland=2C ORwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 09:37:40 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
Re: Pietenpol-List: flying formation cross country and avgas prices
Original Posted By: Gerry Holland
Oscar;The carburetor on my Piet's C85 is a Stromberg. It doesn't leak or overflow with auto gas, but does seem to run a bit rich when starting and warming up. Hence the roughness when increasing the revs through the 1000 to 1300 RPM range. Once it "clears its throat", so to speak, it operates normally. The specific gravity of our auto gas seems to be close to that of avgas and I use the specified float level for the Stromberg carbs. Perhaps the SG of auto gas is variable according to region and yours may differ from ours. I dunno. The addition of ethanol may affect the SG, too.My Wag-A-Bond's (Piper PA17 clone) A65 has a Stromberg carburetor and in 530 hours has never tasted avgas. I have been conducting an experiment to see how an A65 would do using auto gas exclusively. So far, so good. (It does exhibit the same behaviour as the C85 in the Pietenpol, but not to the same degree.)I agree with you in that the price difference between avgas and auto gas is not too significant considering the amount of fuel we use and it is often a matter of convenience when choosing one over the other. That said, I hate auto gas because it smells bad and stinks up everything it touches. Avgas has a pleasant odor; one of the smells that stimulate old aviators to go flying.Cheers,Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)________________________________________________________________________________
Oscar;The carburetor on my Piet's C85 is a Stromberg. It doesn't leak or overflow with auto gas, but does seem to run a bit rich when starting and warming up. Hence the roughness when increasing the revs through the 1000 to 1300 RPM range. Once it "clears its throat", so to speak, it operates normally. The specific gravity of our auto gas seems to be close to that of avgas and I use the specified float level for the Stromberg carbs. Perhaps the SG of auto gas is variable according to region and yours may differ from ours. I dunno. The addition of ethanol may affect the SG, too.My Wag-A-Bond's (Piper PA17 clone) A65 has a Stromberg carburetor and in 530 hours has never tasted avgas. I have been conducting an experiment to see how an A65 would do using auto gas exclusively. So far, so good. (It does exhibit the same behaviour as the C85 in the Pietenpol, but not to the same degree.)I agree with you in that the price difference between avgas and auto gas is not too significant considering the amount of fuel we use and it is often a matter of convenience when choosing one over the other. That said, I hate auto gas because it smells bad and stinks up everything it touches. Avgas has a pleasant odor; one of the smells that stimulate old aviators to go flying.Cheers,Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)________________________________________________________________________________