Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
We built the long fuselage and made it 2 inches wider and the pilot cockpit 2 inches longer. For the wheels we used 21 inch rims and made 6 inch hubs. My son did all the metal work. It has disc brakes with gocart cylinders. Tha wings are Riblett 612 airfoil and the cabanes are the same length.The stall is at 27 and is not a sharp break but a kind of a mush. It slow flies at 30 and he had it up to 103. It weighed in at 805 empty and is very stable. We are pleased with this airfoil and the overall preformance.23 hours yet to go. Bob________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: NX53WE specs
RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine Mount Complete-Work Continues
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Michael, I'm a little surprised at your choice for the firewall metal. I'venever known of an airplane with an aluminum firewall. All I've ever seenwere steel. Aluminum melts at about 1100 degrees F, and a gasoline fed firewill easily melt it. I don't think it would offer much protection, evenwith a fiberfrax backing. I though you loved stainless steel?Anyway, you might want to rethink aluminum for a firewall. I assume you'vebeen reading your Bingelis books, but if not, here is what Mike Cuy's UncleTony has to say about firewall materials:Acceptable Firewall MaterialsThe following materials may be used in firewalls WITHOUT BEING TESTED;. Stainless steel sheet - .015 inch thick (.284 lb./cu. in.) . Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise corrosionprotected) - .018 inch thick . Terne plate - .018 inch thick . Steel or copper base alloy fittings . Other materials may be used if they can pass the fireproof test. The Fireproof TestIf you want to use some other material for your firewall, you may have toprove its ability to meet certain criteria for compliance as a fireproofmaterial. Simply stated, the material must be given a flame test, in which apiece of it, approximately 10 inches in diameter, is subjected to afive-inch diameter flame. Firewall materials and fittings must resist flamepenetration for at least 15 minutes.That's all there is to that. Compliance is relatively easy and nohomebuilder wanting to try a new firewall treatment should slight therequirement.Choosing Your Firewall MaterialGalvanized sheet is the most common, most economical of the acceptablematerials used in small general aviation aircraft. It gets its corrosionresistance from a zinc or hot-dip galvanizing coating obtained by immersingthe sheet steel in a mixture of molten zinc at a temperature ofapproximately 865 degrees F. until the base metal temperature of theimmersed steel sheet reaches that of the hot-dip bath.Local sources for galvanized sheet include metal shops and air conditioningduct fabricators.Don't be surprised if the folks operating these metal shops refer to thethickness of their galvanized sheets in term of gauges rather than inchsizes such as .018 inch or .015 inch. If that be the case, 26 gauge ispretty close to what you want (about .018 inch thick). You could assureyourself that you are obtaining the correct thickness if you bring your ownmicrometer to check the various sheets. There are a number of so-called"standard gauges" and some variations in the actual thickness for the samegauge number may crop up. No useful purpose would be served by using a heavier firewall sheet thanthat required to meet acceptable minimums. Never lose sight of the fact thatthe addition of unnecessary weight, no matter how slight, degrades theaircraft's performance. The firewall metal for a two-seat aircraft willprobably weigh as much as 4-1/2 pounds anyway, so why make it seven?In order of preference for firewall material, stainless steel gets topbilling in both quality and appearance. It also costs two to four times morethan galvanized sheet. However, as the "cadillac" of firewall materials, itis the first choice among builders who want a "show airplane." Builders witheconomy in mind will ordinarily use galvanized sheet for their firewall andmay console themselves by claiming that galvanized sheet is lighter thanstainless. I doubt that the weight difference could be measured on the crudescales most of us have around our shops, but there is that difference.Another fireproof material, often used in the past and sometimes still foundon older aircraft, is terne plate. It is not used much today because itisn't as commonly available as galvanized.Monel and Inconel, although acceptable as firewall materials, are difficultto obtain. As far as homebuilders are concerned, these may be regarded asrare materials.Concern over weight leads some builders to consider the use of aluminum.However, using aluminum sheet by itself for firewall material is notacceptable to most FAA inspectors. The official reason is, aluminum will notpass the flame test because its melting point is just slightly above 1,200degrees F. In some applications . . . for very slow, light aircraft(ultralights) with small engines, it might be considered sufficient.However, before you decide to use it in your own aircraft, check it out withyour local FAA inspector. Although the standards established by regulationfor production-line aircraft do not necessarily apply to experimentalaircraft, deviation from accepted practices may result in your having to getinto a proof testing demonstration. Is it worth the trouble?So, before going much further, I would strongly urge you to considerglavanized iron or stainless steel.Best of luck,Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Michael, I'm a little surprised at your choice for the firewall metal. I'venever known of an airplane with an aluminum firewall. All I've ever seenwere steel. Aluminum melts at about 1100 degrees F, and a gasoline fed firewill easily melt it. I don't think it would offer much protection, evenwith a fiberfrax backing. I though you loved stainless steel?Anyway, you might want to rethink aluminum for a firewall. I assume you'vebeen reading your Bingelis books, but if not, here is what Mike Cuy's UncleTony has to say about firewall materials:Acceptable Firewall MaterialsThe following materials may be used in firewalls WITHOUT BEING TESTED;. Stainless steel sheet - .015 inch thick (.284 lb./cu. in.) . Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise corrosionprotected) - .018 inch thick . Terne plate - .018 inch thick . Steel or copper base alloy fittings . Other materials may be used if they can pass the fireproof test. The Fireproof TestIf you want to use some other material for your firewall, you may have toprove its ability to meet certain criteria for compliance as a fireproofmaterial. Simply stated, the material must be given a flame test, in which apiece of it, approximately 10 inches in diameter, is subjected to afive-inch diameter flame. Firewall materials and fittings must resist flamepenetration for at least 15 minutes.That's all there is to that. Compliance is relatively easy and nohomebuilder wanting to try a new firewall treatment should slight therequirement.Choosing Your Firewall MaterialGalvanized sheet is the most common, most economical of the acceptablematerials used in small general aviation aircraft. It gets its corrosionresistance from a zinc or hot-dip galvanizing coating obtained by immersingthe sheet steel in a mixture of molten zinc at a temperature ofapproximately 865 degrees F. until the base metal temperature of theimmersed steel sheet reaches that of the hot-dip bath.Local sources for galvanized sheet include metal shops and air conditioningduct fabricators.Don't be surprised if the folks operating these metal shops refer to thethickness of their galvanized sheets in term of gauges rather than inchsizes such as .018 inch or .015 inch. If that be the case, 26 gauge ispretty close to what you want (about .018 inch thick). You could assureyourself that you are obtaining the correct thickness if you bring your ownmicrometer to check the various sheets. There are a number of so-called"standard gauges" and some variations in the actual thickness for the samegauge number may crop up. No useful purpose would be served by using a heavier firewall sheet thanthat required to meet acceptable minimums. Never lose sight of the fact thatthe addition of unnecessary weight, no matter how slight, degrades theaircraft's performance. The firewall metal for a two-seat aircraft willprobably weigh as much as 4-1/2 pounds anyway, so why make it seven?In order of preference for firewall material, stainless steel gets topbilling in both quality and appearance. It also costs two to four times morethan galvanized sheet. However, as the "cadillac" of firewall materials, itis the first choice among builders who want a "show airplane." Builders witheconomy in mind will ordinarily use galvanized sheet for their firewall andmay console themselves by claiming that galvanized sheet is lighter thanstainless. I doubt that the weight difference could be measured on the crudescales most of us have around our shops, but there is that difference.Another fireproof material, often used in the past and sometimes still foundon older aircraft, is terne plate. It is not used much today because itisn't as commonly available as galvanized.Monel and Inconel, although acceptable as firewall materials, are difficultto obtain. As far as homebuilders are concerned, these may be regarded asrare materials.Concern over weight leads some builders to consider the use of aluminum.However, using aluminum sheet by itself for firewall material is notacceptable to most FAA inspectors. The official reason is, aluminum will notpass the flame test because its melting point is just slightly above 1,200degrees F. In some applications . . . for very slow, light aircraft(ultralights) with small engines, it might be considered sufficient.However, before you decide to use it in your own aircraft, check it out withyour local FAA inspector. Although the standards established by regulationfor production-line aircraft do not necessarily apply to experimentalaircraft, deviation from accepted practices may result in your having to getinto a proof testing demonstration. Is it worth the trouble?So, before going much further, I would strongly urge you to considerglavanized iron or stainless steel.Best of luck,Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: NX53WE specs
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Great information, im running the Riblett 612 also and am wondering if you putin and dihedral? My weight will be real close to yours as well.Thanks in advance!--------NX321LRFully Assembled less coveringMistubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
Great information, im running the Riblett 612 also and am wondering if you putin and dihedral? My weight will be real close to yours as well.Thanks in advance!--------NX321LRFully Assembled less coveringMistubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
Fw: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine Mount Complete-Work Continues
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Re: Fw: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine Mount Complete-Work Continues
Original Posted By: "Hayes, Mike"
Subject: Re: Fw: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine Mount Complete-Work ContinuesAs I understand the firewall is the Fiberfax not the metal thing I put infront of it to hold it in place?...If this is the case, we can use just a simple woven wire in front of theFiberfax... can't we?Mario Giacummo... .. .-.. .- .- ...- . -. - ..- .-. .- . ... .--. . .-.. .. --. .-.--- ... .- --..-- .--. .-. --- -... .- .-.. .- .-. ..- - .. -. .- --..-- . ... -- --- .-. - .- .-.. !!!!!2012/6/15 Michael Perez > Hello Jack. Here is the intell. I got from T.B's Firewall Forward, in so> many words:>> Fiberfrax withstands temps. of about 2,300 deg. F. and may be considered> as effective a fire barrier as stainless. ...it saves 2-3 pounds over SS> or galvanized sheet normally installed. (page 60)>> The technique for using it:> Attach Fiberfrax to wood or composite firewall, overlay with .016" 2024 T3> to protect it. Although aluminum is deficient when used alone, with> Fiberfrax it is acceptable. (page 60)> I used .030" because I had it on hand.>> Before firewall is attached on a wood or composite aircraft I recommend> the firewall be protected with asbestos, Zetex or Fiberfrax paper. (page> 63)>> Page 58 figure1 and page 78 Figure 2 shows Fiberfrax used on wood> firewalls.>> ACS catalog, page 114:> ...Fiberfrax withstands temps. up to 2,300 deg. F. excellent for aircraft> firewalls.>>> The intell. you provided is sound and from the same book. (Pages 56 and> 57) However, if you read further it gets into wood and composite aircraft> and the above statements.>> I do like the quote below from your reply:>> "No useful purpose would be served by using a heavier firewall sheet than> that required to meet acceptable minimums. Never lose sight of the fact> that the addition of unnecessary weight, no matter how slight, degrades the> aircraft=92s performance. The firewall metal for a two-seat aircraft will> probably weigh as much as 4-1/2 pounds anyway, so why make it seven?">> I like SS, but a sheet of it as a firewall seems a bit heavy,> expensive and unnecessary.>> Michael Perez> Pietenpol HINT Videos> Karetaker Aero> www.karetakeraero.com>> *>============================================> *>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fw: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine Mount Complete-Work ContinuesAs I understand the firewall is the Fiberfax not the metal thing I put infront of it to hold it in place?...If this is the case, we can use just a simple woven wire in front of theFiberfax... can't we?Mario Giacummo... .. .-.. .- .- ...- . -. - ..- .-. .- . ... .--. . .-.. .. --. .-.--- ... .- --..-- .--. .-. --- -... .- .-.. .- .-. ..- - .. -. .- --..-- . ... -- --- .-. - .- .-.. !!!!!2012/6/15 Michael Perez > Hello Jack. Here is the intell. I got from T.B's Firewall Forward, in so> many words:>> Fiberfrax withstands temps. of about 2,300 deg. F. and may be considered> as effective a fire barrier as stainless. ...it saves 2-3 pounds over SS> or galvanized sheet normally installed. (page 60)>> The technique for using it:> Attach Fiberfrax to wood or composite firewall, overlay with .016" 2024 T3> to protect it. Although aluminum is deficient when used alone, with> Fiberfrax it is acceptable. (page 60)> I used .030" because I had it on hand.>> Before firewall is attached on a wood or composite aircraft I recommend> the firewall be protected with asbestos, Zetex or Fiberfrax paper. (page> 63)>> Page 58 figure1 and page 78 Figure 2 shows Fiberfrax used on wood> firewalls.>> ACS catalog, page 114:> ...Fiberfrax withstands temps. up to 2,300 deg. F. excellent for aircraft> firewalls.>>> The intell. you provided is sound and from the same book. (Pages 56 and> 57) However, if you read further it gets into wood and composite aircraft> and the above statements.>> I do like the quote below from your reply:>> "No useful purpose would be served by using a heavier firewall sheet than> that required to meet acceptable minimums. Never lose sight of the fact> that the addition of unnecessary weight, no matter how slight, degrades the> aircraft=92s performance. The firewall metal for a two-seat aircraft will> probably weigh as much as 4-1/2 pounds anyway, so why make it seven?">> I like SS, but a sheet of it as a firewall seems a bit heavy,> expensive and unnecessary.>> Michael Perez> Pietenpol HINT Videos> Karetaker Aero> www.karetakeraero.com>> *>============================================> *>>________________________________________________________________________________