Original Posted By: "Textor, Jack"
Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: Textor, Jack
Jack,My 1934 plans say welded WITH a bend with 22 ga steel. That's what I did. seemsvery whispy before bending and welding, but after the welding, it's very impressivehow strong the horns are. none of them flew off yet!walt evansNX140DL ----- Original Message -----
Jack,My 1934 plans say welded WITH a bend with 22 ga steel. That's what I did. seemsvery whispy before bending and welding, but after the welding, it's very impressivehow strong the horns are. none of them flew off yet!walt evansNX140DL ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: "walt evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionI don't know how thick it is...but I watched Bernard make those aileron horns and elevator horns from the mild steel tops from 5 gallon dope cans. They didn't have an actual bend in them...he just formed them so that after brazingthey were airfoil shaped with the thick section near the front.Forrest LovleyJordan MN________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionI don't know how thick it is...but I watched Bernard make those aileron horns and elevator horns from the mild steel tops from 5 gallon dope cans. They didn't have an actual bend in them...he just formed them so that after brazingthey were airfoil shaped with the thick section near the front.Forrest LovleyJordan MN________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By:
Thanks Forrest,Every once in a while I need a letter like yours to set me back on track.Aileron horns from dope cans, leading edge ply from Quaker Oats containers,and split gear from water pipe. We still have to make it good, butBernard made them from pretty basic stuff, so what we use today should holdtogether pretty darn good.Ain't life grand!!walt evansNX140DL----- Original Message -----
Thanks Forrest,Every once in a while I need a letter like yours to set me back on track.Aileron horns from dope cans, leading edge ply from Quaker Oats containers,and split gear from water pipe. We still have to make it good, butBernard made them from pretty basic stuff, so what we use today should holdtogether pretty darn good.Ain't life grand!!walt evansNX140DL----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: Textor, Jack
.028 is the thickness I used. Seemed pretty flimsy until the halves were formedand welded.They were then incredibly strong. And light.They aren't all that difficult to make and are quite satisfying to complete.I've seen many that were simply made from a single piece of .090 steel, it worksbut is heavy. I have not seen any aluminum horns.Greg CardinalMinneapolis ----- Original Message -----
.028 is the thickness I used. Seemed pretty flimsy until the halves were formedand welded.They were then incredibly strong. And light.They aren't all that difficult to make and are quite satisfying to complete.I've seen many that were simply made from a single piece of .090 steel, it worksbut is heavy. I have not seen any aluminum horns.Greg CardinalMinneapolis ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: brian jardine
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionIn a message dated 2/14/05 1:48:03 PM Central Standard Time, jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com writes:>Jack,Plans type horns are much more than adequate, three dimensional making them very strong, easy to build, and well proven. Aluminum horns are Risky Business!!Chuck G.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionIn a message dated 2/14/05 1:48:03 PM Central Standard Time, jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com writes:>Jack,Plans type horns are much more than adequate, three dimensional making them very strong, easy to build, and well proven. Aluminum horns are Risky Business!!Chuck G.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionGary...actually, I believe that the dope cans back in the 30"s were probably lighter material than today...I have some old ones from Berry Brothers and they are pretty thin...no OSHA, hazardous shipping regulations, etc, etc...also,they didn't have to be strong enough for uncaring shippers to mistreat. The material is very ductile mild steel that is easy to form, and not prone to cracks. And if you use them to build your airplane, it won't cost you anythingto get rid of them...:>)Forrest Lovley________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:31:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionGary...actually, I believe that the dope cans back in the 30"s were probably lighter material than today...I have some old ones from Berry Brothers and they are pretty thin...no OSHA, hazardous shipping regulations, etc, etc...also,they didn't have to be strong enough for uncaring shippers to mistreat. The material is very ductile mild steel that is easy to form, and not prone to cracks. And if you use them to build your airplane, it won't cost you anythingto get rid of them...:>)Forrest Lovley________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:31:33 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: a useful FAA web site !
Original Posted By: "Michael D Cuy"
Wow! nice find.I just went there and downloaded the safety belt attachment AC. 47 pagesof kick arse info!tons of other goodies too!DJ----- Original Message -----
Wow! nice find.I just went there and downloaded the safety belt attachment AC. 47 pagesof kick arse info!tons of other goodies too!DJ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: "chase143(at)aol.com"
Gary;I don't believe anyone has ever formally tested the FC-10 airfoil to determineany real "numbers" for it; certainly not anything like putting it in the windtunnel. The published CG limits are more along the lines of what was commonlyaccepted for airfoils of its era and general shape and loading, and are sortof just good aeronautical rules of thumb for CG range for these airfoils. Laterdevelopments, modern aircraft such as the C-120/140, T'Craft, Champ, Cub andothers had relatively much more sophisticated airfoils that benefitted fromthe work of NACA and wartime development to produce scientific refinements toairfoils. Mr. Pietenpol only had the wooden floor of his barn, his French curve,a lead pencil, and his Mark I calibrated eyeball to guide him.This is a subject that has come up fairly regularly over the years, and there aretwo or three camps on the issue. At the far right (conservative) are thosewho claim, and rightly so, "it has worked for years this way, don't mess withit, Air Campers aren't falling out of the sky". The far left (liberal or progressives)say, "we know a lot more about airfoil modeling with computers nowadays,so let's put the FC-10 into a program like ProFoil or one of the othersand let's get the REAL numbers on it." The middle camp (most of us), just shrugour shoulders and move on.I was a small part of a group of people who worked on the development of an airfoil specifically designed to maximize the performance of the Rand Robinson KR-2 and -2S homebuilt aircraft. This resulted in the testing, refinement, and publication of the new airfoil (actually a series of airfoils from 15% to 18% thickness), dubbed the AS504x series. This airfoil is flying today on various KRs and its benefits have been proven. You can read more about it here: http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ but the bottom line from my perspective is, "don't mess with Mr. Pietenpol's Air Camper".--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Gary;I don't believe anyone has ever formally tested the FC-10 airfoil to determineany real "numbers" for it; certainly not anything like putting it in the windtunnel. The published CG limits are more along the lines of what was commonlyaccepted for airfoils of its era and general shape and loading, and are sortof just good aeronautical rules of thumb for CG range for these airfoils. Laterdevelopments, modern aircraft such as the C-120/140, T'Craft, Champ, Cub andothers had relatively much more sophisticated airfoils that benefitted fromthe work of NACA and wartime development to produce scientific refinements toairfoils. Mr. Pietenpol only had the wooden floor of his barn, his French curve,a lead pencil, and his Mark I calibrated eyeball to guide him.This is a subject that has come up fairly regularly over the years, and there aretwo or three camps on the issue. At the far right (conservative) are thosewho claim, and rightly so, "it has worked for years this way, don't mess withit, Air Campers aren't falling out of the sky". The far left (liberal or progressives)say, "we know a lot more about airfoil modeling with computers nowadays,so let's put the FC-10 into a program like ProFoil or one of the othersand let's get the REAL numbers on it." The middle camp (most of us), just shrugour shoulders and move on.I was a small part of a group of people who worked on the development of an airfoil specifically designed to maximize the performance of the Rand Robinson KR-2 and -2S homebuilt aircraft. This resulted in the testing, refinement, and publication of the new airfoil (actually a series of airfoils from 15% to 18% thickness), dubbed the AS504x series. This airfoil is flying today on various KRs and its benefits have been proven. You can read more about it here: http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ but the bottom line from my perspective is, "don't mess with Mr. Pietenpol's Air Camper".--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionHi Steve, Excellent question about the openings in the horns. I left mine open and justmade sure that I sprayed a good amount ofzinc chromate primer (spray can) in that opening and then rotated the horn in myhands until the paint was dripping out theends. The nice part is that most all of our Pietenpols are hangared (or will be oncecompleted) so the only real rain they will see isovernight at a fly in. I rather like having the openings in the aileron hornsso they can dry out on a nice, hot sunny day following an overnightthunderstorm at an air show or fly-in. Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionHi Steve, Excellent question about the openings in the horns. I left mine open and justmade sure that I sprayed a good amount ofzinc chromate primer (spray can) in that opening and then rotated the horn in myhands until the paint was dripping out theends. The nice part is that most all of our Pietenpols are hangared (or will be oncecompleted) so the only real rain they will see isovernight at a fly in. I rather like having the openings in the aileron hornsso they can dry out on a nice, hot sunny day following an overnightthunderstorm at an air show or fly-in. Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Ditto what Mike said. The only thing I did different was to use epoxyprimer rather than zinc-chromate.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Ditto what Mike said. The only thing I did different was to use epoxyprimer rather than zinc-chromate.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: "Jack"
Thanks all!Excellent feedback!Absolutely Priceless!--------Stevewww.mypiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Thanks all!Excellent feedback!Absolutely Priceless!--------Stevewww.mypiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: carb heat muff
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Rick very nice work and thank you for sharing the site! If I'm correct theair enters the oblong hole, is heated then diverted to the carb intake? Dosethat heat enough to be effective?Jack TextorDes Moines, IA-----Original Message-----
Rick very nice work and thank you for sharing the site! If I'm correct theair enters the oblong hole, is heated then diverted to the carb intake? Dosethat heat enough to be effective?Jack TextorDes Moines, IA-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
What material are you making your control horns of: 22 gage Cold Rolled Steel (standardsheet metal), or .025 or .032 4130 chromoly? Thanks!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
What material are you making your control horns of: 22 gage Cold Rolled Steel (standardsheet metal), or .025 or .032 4130 chromoly? Thanks!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT - Quad City Challenger II>>> DJ,>> I met a Challenger II owner at the Brodhead fly-in last year. Hementioned> that he was selling his Challenger because it was "the most boring thinghe> ever flew". You may want to get a ride in one before diving in.>> BTW, I did a little tail dragger training in a Kitfox with a 582 Rotax. The> noise and vibration of that two stroke was annoying and disconcerting. It> took a lot of enjoyment out of the flight experience for me.>> Greg Bacon> Prairie Home, MO>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> > > > > > >>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionDate: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:41:14 -0800
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT - Quad City Challenger II>>> DJ,>> I met a Challenger II owner at the Brodhead fly-in last year. Hementioned> that he was selling his Challenger because it was "the most boring thinghe> ever flew". You may want to get a ride in one before diving in.>> BTW, I did a little tail dragger training in a Kitfox with a 582 Rotax. The> noise and vibration of that two stroke was annoying and disconcerting. It> took a lot of enjoyment out of the flight experience for me.>> Greg Bacon> Prairie Home, MO>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> > > > > > >>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn QuestionDate: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:41:14 -0800