Original Posted By: "tools"
Jim, It's good to hear you are going to try to fly in. You know Mr. Sam has been toBrodhead a time or two in the past. Probably mid 90's. that's a really goodairplane. I'm on the road right now but when I get back in the next day or twoI will post a couple of pictures of my bag/sling I use. Works great and isa bag that you can order, even has a lid. If you get a chance try to talk toAndrew King, I'm sure he could share some stories about Mr. Sam. He's actuallynot too far from you.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: For the record... geesh...
Pietenpol-List: For the record... geesh...
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Nearly a year ago, in April, my Piet was severely damaged during a landing. Oneof the wood gear members gave out, which caused a collapse of the gear, causingthe fuselage to drop onto the solid axle thusly breaking the bottom longerons(and a little of the side skins). Also, three of the four wing struts cameinto contact with the wheels, and bent them.Also suffered a prop strike.I was fortunate no one was hurt (was alone), and it was in my back yard.It was almost exactly 4 months until the airplane was airworthy again. Of those4 months, there were probably 3 1/2 weeks worth of work days put into the plane.This included extensive dismantling so that I could store as much as possible,close to my shop. The wing had to get transported (didn't have my wingtrailer then) to a friend's shop, where it got stored until ready to go backtogether. Was another fiasco getting it back to the property and onto the plane,learned a lot!The prop was damaged but the engine was not (me and friend took it apart, had allthe parts inspected, put it all back together...). Other than that, 3 of the4 wing struts were damaged. 3 of the 4 gear members were damaged. Two longerons,two side skins, belly skin and a crossmember. Nine pieces of wood, threepieces of metal.Repairs to the fuselage took 3 days. Not very amazing. When I started repairson the fuse, it was a hundred or so pound structure. Nothing but wood, fabric,tailwheel and some fittings. I could lift it and turn it over by myself, itwas THAT dismantled (so it would fit where my woodworking stuff is). When I was done, it was the same 100 pound (or so) structure, but without brokenwood or torn fabric anywhere. I had to replace sections on 4 pieces of theoriginal fuse (longerons and side skins), and make and install a new crossmemberand belly skin. That's it. I purposely staged in a way that actual repairswould go quickly so that it wasn't apart long. Both for memory sake and becausewood tends to do some moving on it's own. Since three of the gear legs were destroyed (I had replaced one already, it survived),I just made an all new set. I had patterns... At that point, putting it all back together was akin to all y'alls (who've builtor restored one) final assembly. Incredibly tedious and time consuming.But the repairs to the fuse were not. Very straight forward and akin to installinga door on a previously completed and covered fuse I imagine, which is whyI referred to it. I never even came close to claiming I took an airplane restingon an axle in a field back to airworthy in three days. I repaired the damagein three. Incredible cynicism makes it tough to determine if it was just not very obvious(I didn't tell EVERYTHING because it wasn't germain to installing a door), orjust plain rudeness that elevated a simple description of repairs to a fuselageinto grand claims of restoration abilities. One would think the former wouldresult in a simple question... The repairs came out really really well, I was extremely happy with them and theirperformance. The repaired fabric, not so much... I'm happy to practice thatsort of thing now. Safe and completely functional, but I've got some workto do there.I really wanted to document it all really well, but my camera was broke, don'town a smart phone and I was in a hurry. And now you have, ala Paul Harvey, the rest of the story...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
Nearly a year ago, in April, my Piet was severely damaged during a landing. Oneof the wood gear members gave out, which caused a collapse of the gear, causingthe fuselage to drop onto the solid axle thusly breaking the bottom longerons(and a little of the side skins). Also, three of the four wing struts cameinto contact with the wheels, and bent them.Also suffered a prop strike.I was fortunate no one was hurt (was alone), and it was in my back yard.It was almost exactly 4 months until the airplane was airworthy again. Of those4 months, there were probably 3 1/2 weeks worth of work days put into the plane.This included extensive dismantling so that I could store as much as possible,close to my shop. The wing had to get transported (didn't have my wingtrailer then) to a friend's shop, where it got stored until ready to go backtogether. Was another fiasco getting it back to the property and onto the plane,learned a lot!The prop was damaged but the engine was not (me and friend took it apart, had allthe parts inspected, put it all back together...). Other than that, 3 of the4 wing struts were damaged. 3 of the 4 gear members were damaged. Two longerons,two side skins, belly skin and a crossmember. Nine pieces of wood, threepieces of metal.Repairs to the fuselage took 3 days. Not very amazing. When I started repairson the fuse, it was a hundred or so pound structure. Nothing but wood, fabric,tailwheel and some fittings. I could lift it and turn it over by myself, itwas THAT dismantled (so it would fit where my woodworking stuff is). When I was done, it was the same 100 pound (or so) structure, but without brokenwood or torn fabric anywhere. I had to replace sections on 4 pieces of theoriginal fuse (longerons and side skins), and make and install a new crossmemberand belly skin. That's it. I purposely staged in a way that actual repairswould go quickly so that it wasn't apart long. Both for memory sake and becausewood tends to do some moving on it's own. Since three of the gear legs were destroyed (I had replaced one already, it survived),I just made an all new set. I had patterns... At that point, putting it all back together was akin to all y'alls (who've builtor restored one) final assembly. Incredibly tedious and time consuming.But the repairs to the fuse were not. Very straight forward and akin to installinga door on a previously completed and covered fuse I imagine, which is whyI referred to it. I never even came close to claiming I took an airplane restingon an axle in a field back to airworthy in three days. I repaired the damagein three. Incredible cynicism makes it tough to determine if it was just not very obvious(I didn't tell EVERYTHING because it wasn't germain to installing a door), orjust plain rudeness that elevated a simple description of repairs to a fuselageinto grand claims of restoration abilities. One would think the former wouldresult in a simple question... The repairs came out really really well, I was extremely happy with them and theirperformance. The repaired fabric, not so much... I'm happy to practice thatsort of thing now. Safe and completely functional, but I've got some workto do there.I really wanted to document it all really well, but my camera was broke, don'town a smart phone and I was in a hurry. And now you have, ala Paul Harvey, the rest of the story...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: For the record... geesh...
Original Posted By: "tools"
I decided that on my new ship I will re-use my original wire wheels but leave themuncovered. the spokes are plain steel and I had primer painted them originallybefore added fabric. Today I started to disassemble them so I can repaintthe Hubs and add Grease cups for that antique look. I will have to paint thespokes and rim some kind of chrome looking paint probably or maybe some contrastingcolor. Not sure what colors I will paint my new ship but at this point Ilike Black and light blue, but that is a ways off at this point. Also am consideringif I could use my original 4.5" brake drums with a Band instead of theinternal shoes. Wish my Son Chris were not deployed overseas with the Navy ashe is an excellent Bike Mechanic and I would have him re-lace and true so I wouldn'thave to do it again.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/file ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: For the record... geesh...
I decided that on my new ship I will re-use my original wire wheels but leave themuncovered. the spokes are plain steel and I had primer painted them originallybefore added fabric. Today I started to disassemble them so I can repaintthe Hubs and add Grease cups for that antique look. I will have to paint thespokes and rim some kind of chrome looking paint probably or maybe some contrastingcolor. Not sure what colors I will paint my new ship but at this point Ilike Black and light blue, but that is a ways off at this point. Also am consideringif I could use my original 4.5" brake drums with a Band instead of theinternal shoes. Wish my Son Chris were not deployed overseas with the Navy ashe is an excellent Bike Mechanic and I would have him re-lace and true so I wouldn'thave to do it again.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/file ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: For the record... geesh...
Pietenpol-List: Re: For the record... geesh...
Original Posted By: "tools"
Oh... may have led folks astray again... I'm, well, while not attesting to the "greater" knowledge portion, DEFINITELY inthe latter description!However, with the hangar and new shop I plan to gravitate towards the former asmuch as possible! Mike's shop makes me green with envy. Reminds me of the "modelairplane factory", a guy I know near Huntsville. A true renaissance typewith a shop that looks like a laboratory. And while it's that neat and clean,he gets A LOT done. And it's SUPER high quality. If he ever decided to builda plane (not sure he hasn't actually), it would be done in a year and it makesme tingly to think how nice it would look... and then he'd sell it, loseinterest, and go on to the next venture.The tools go a bit further back (turn of the century), and they all have some quirkor another (hell, many of them literally came off a scrap truck...), so ya,I'm firmly in that camp.Getting a new line shaft driven Rockford metal lathe. Ten cents a pound, undertwo hundred bucks. Either he stops by my house, or the scrapyard... Don't thinkI could sleep at night if I let that thing get melted down. It's one hundredpercent functional, probably be the best condition lathe I own. It'll turn18 (or 20) in diameter and about 5' between centers, complete with the singlemachine overhead lineshaft and 1930's electric motor AND a belt lacer! Cheaperthan an asian 9x20... One and a half inch through hole, PERFECT for an airplaneaxle.Just got a 1940's (maybe earlier) Nichols mill given to me. It needs a littlework... Talk about the PERFECT machine for fish mouthing aircraft tubing. I don't know if I'll ever get a Piet built.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: For the record... geesh...
Oh... may have led folks astray again... I'm, well, while not attesting to the "greater" knowledge portion, DEFINITELY inthe latter description!However, with the hangar and new shop I plan to gravitate towards the former asmuch as possible! Mike's shop makes me green with envy. Reminds me of the "modelairplane factory", a guy I know near Huntsville. A true renaissance typewith a shop that looks like a laboratory. And while it's that neat and clean,he gets A LOT done. And it's SUPER high quality. If he ever decided to builda plane (not sure he hasn't actually), it would be done in a year and it makesme tingly to think how nice it would look... and then he'd sell it, loseinterest, and go on to the next venture.The tools go a bit further back (turn of the century), and they all have some quirkor another (hell, many of them literally came off a scrap truck...), so ya,I'm firmly in that camp.Getting a new line shaft driven Rockford metal lathe. Ten cents a pound, undertwo hundred bucks. Either he stops by my house, or the scrapyard... Don't thinkI could sleep at night if I let that thing get melted down. It's one hundredpercent functional, probably be the best condition lathe I own. It'll turn18 (or 20) in diameter and about 5' between centers, complete with the singlemachine overhead lineshaft and 1930's electric motor AND a belt lacer! Cheaperthan an asian 9x20... One and a half inch through hole, PERFECT for an airplaneaxle.Just got a 1940's (maybe earlier) Nichols mill given to me. It needs a littlework... Talk about the PERFECT machine for fish mouthing aircraft tubing. I don't know if I'll ever get a Piet built.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: For the record... geesh...
Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Well, kinda thought that would eventually come up.Like ALL mishaps, it's a very long chain...First, the gear legs weren't all that well fitted within the fuse fittings (thesewere NOT made my Dick, it's VERY clear in the builder's log they came withthe fuse already made and fitted), and by appearances, they looked fine.Second, I LEARNED to fly a tail dragger in this thing. My son LEARNED to fly inthis thing... we were NOT babying it by ANY means?! Ya know? Ya, it definitelytook some hits. We found one leg had developed some cracks, so we replacedit. Not easy, but took measurements and fabricated a replacement leg and installedit at the hangar 10 miles from my shop. It fit perfectly only needingsome relief where there was a thing I couldn't see... not a big deal. I couldsee they needed to be a bit thicker, so did that and brought some shims toget a good fit between the fuse fittings. Third, it was UGLY, and I knew it, but PERFECTLY functional, just wanted to keepflying to didn't even bother to round it, streamline it, anything. Was goingto build some new gear but wanted it at the house (I've got JUST enough propertyto put in a single direction landing strip (take off down hill, land up hill,PLENTY of room and good approach/departure). So, had landed there a dozentimes, my son was landing there, all was good... and the DAY I finally had enoughtime off to get the gear project done and the forecast was good enough tokeep the plane outdoors, I decided to bring it to the house... a perfect touchdown...but a bit fast... lapped the stick and got airborne for a bounce. THATbounce broke one of the other three legs, can't determine which one, and downcame the house of cards.Post mishap analysis shows the legs had very elongated holes from movement. Ididn't see that, but realize in hind sight I should have known from the otherleg I removed... dammit! The one replacement held on well enough to take thefitting right out of the fuse. The others just popped free.I think wrapping (like you can clearly see on Dowe's plane, sure I've seen it onothers) would have helped for sure. Bust mostly, they need to fit the fittingsTIGHTLY. Snug fits, tight bolts, up tight to the bottom of the fuse. Likewood struts, you want friction between the fitting and the wood to provide thestrength (many make these fittings larger) and the bolts to merely providethat friction.So, starting with headwork and working your way back, it's the execution of what'son the plans that will keep you out of trouble. Poorer execution can be compensatedfor by beefing up to some degree.A VERY STRONG design.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Well, kinda thought that would eventually come up.Like ALL mishaps, it's a very long chain...First, the gear legs weren't all that well fitted within the fuse fittings (thesewere NOT made my Dick, it's VERY clear in the builder's log they came withthe fuse already made and fitted), and by appearances, they looked fine.Second, I LEARNED to fly a tail dragger in this thing. My son LEARNED to fly inthis thing... we were NOT babying it by ANY means?! Ya know? Ya, it definitelytook some hits. We found one leg had developed some cracks, so we replacedit. Not easy, but took measurements and fabricated a replacement leg and installedit at the hangar 10 miles from my shop. It fit perfectly only needingsome relief where there was a thing I couldn't see... not a big deal. I couldsee they needed to be a bit thicker, so did that and brought some shims toget a good fit between the fuse fittings. Third, it was UGLY, and I knew it, but PERFECTLY functional, just wanted to keepflying to didn't even bother to round it, streamline it, anything. Was goingto build some new gear but wanted it at the house (I've got JUST enough propertyto put in a single direction landing strip (take off down hill, land up hill,PLENTY of room and good approach/departure). So, had landed there a dozentimes, my son was landing there, all was good... and the DAY I finally had enoughtime off to get the gear project done and the forecast was good enough tokeep the plane outdoors, I decided to bring it to the house... a perfect touchdown...but a bit fast... lapped the stick and got airborne for a bounce. THATbounce broke one of the other three legs, can't determine which one, and downcame the house of cards.Post mishap analysis shows the legs had very elongated holes from movement. Ididn't see that, but realize in hind sight I should have known from the otherleg I removed... dammit! The one replacement held on well enough to take thefitting right out of the fuse. The others just popped free.I think wrapping (like you can clearly see on Dowe's plane, sure I've seen it onothers) would have helped for sure. Bust mostly, they need to fit the fittingsTIGHTLY. Snug fits, tight bolts, up tight to the bottom of the fuse. Likewood struts, you want friction between the fitting and the wood to provide thestrength (many make these fittings larger) and the bolts to merely providethat friction.So, starting with headwork and working your way back, it's the execution of what'son the plans that will keep you out of trouble. Poorer execution can be compensatedfor by beefing up to some degree.A VERY STRONG design.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________