Original Posted By: John Hofmann
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jury struts yes or no? UNCLASSIFIED I may be reopening a previous discussion. If so just tell me shut up and searchthe database. Jury struts, Yes or no? While loading my fuselage on a trailer, an airport bum, unknown to me, drove up,Introduced himself as Craig, praised the Pietenpol design, told me several thingsto be aware of on flying the Piet and then told me all about the evils ofjury struts. (Oscar Zuniga verifies the mans credentials.) N3379 had jury struts and I intend on putting them back on. Craig says that theyput a stress point on the wing in an unnatural place. He pointed out that BernardP never put them on his planes and they are not on the origional plans.Craig then discussed his thots and experiences on jury struts. He is basicallyagin them based on vast Model building and experimental experience. Looking atphotos across the web, most Piets have Jury struts.I was going to blow the guy's advice off, but he claimed he knew Oscar Zuniga andhad flown Scout. This caused me to pause. I checked with OZ and the guy isbona fide. OZ confirmed that the guy is eccentric, opinionated and has some wrong ideas. BUThe is also brilliant and really knows small planes and is an excellent smallplane mechanic and has many right ideas. OZ has let him fly Scout from the backseat.Blue Skies, Steve DUNCLASSIFIED________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Jury struts yes or no?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: "Avill"
UNCIVILIZEDHe is full of crap.In the 20s and 30s, when steel strut planes were the norm, you could buy streamline tubing that had an internal webbing. This webbing added so much strength that the early Pietenpols did not need jury struts. That tubing has not been available for many years. The only caution is placement of jury struts. If placed at the midpoint a destructive harmonic can happen. It has been covered before and is in the archives.So, yes to jury struts. No, to hangar door riff-raff.-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2424 American LaneMadison, WI 53704Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn May 23, 2013, at 10:20 AM, "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" wrote:NGB" > > UNCLASSIFIED> I may be reopening a previous discussion. If so just tell me shut up and search the database.> > Jury struts, Yes or no? > > While loading my fuselage on a trailer, an airport bum, unknown to me, drove up, Introduced himself as Craig, praised the Pietenpol design, told me several things to be aware of on flying the Piet and then told me all about the evils of jury struts. (Oscar Zuniga verifies the mans credentials.) > > N3379 had jury struts and I intend on putting them back on. Craig says that they put a stress point on the wing in an unnatural place. He pointed out that Bernard P never put them on his planes and they are not on the origional plans. > > Craig then discussed his thots and experiences on jury struts. He is basically agin them based on vast Model building and experimental experience. Looking at photos across the web, most Piets have Jury struts.> > I was going to blow the guy's advice off, but he claimed he knew Oscar Zuniga and had flown Scout. This caused me to pause. I checked with OZ and the guy is bona fide. > > OZ confirmed that the guy is eccentric, opinionated and has some wrong ideas. BUT he is also brilliant and really knows small planes and is an excellent small plane mechanic and has many right ideas. OZ has let him fly Scout from the back seat.> > Blue Skies, > Steve D> UNCLASSIFIED> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
UNCIVILIZEDHe is full of crap.In the 20s and 30s, when steel strut planes were the norm, you could buy streamline tubing that had an internal webbing. This webbing added so much strength that the early Pietenpols did not need jury struts. That tubing has not been available for many years. The only caution is placement of jury struts. If placed at the midpoint a destructive harmonic can happen. It has been covered before and is in the archives.So, yes to jury struts. No, to hangar door riff-raff.-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2424 American LaneMadison, WI 53704Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn May 23, 2013, at 10:20 AM, "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" wrote:NGB" > > UNCLASSIFIED> I may be reopening a previous discussion. If so just tell me shut up and search the database.> > Jury struts, Yes or no? > > While loading my fuselage on a trailer, an airport bum, unknown to me, drove up, Introduced himself as Craig, praised the Pietenpol design, told me several things to be aware of on flying the Piet and then told me all about the evils of jury struts. (Oscar Zuniga verifies the mans credentials.) > > N3379 had jury struts and I intend on putting them back on. Craig says that they put a stress point on the wing in an unnatural place. He pointed out that Bernard P never put them on his planes and they are not on the origional plans. > > Craig then discussed his thots and experiences on jury struts. He is basically agin them based on vast Model building and experimental experience. Looking at photos across the web, most Piets have Jury struts.> > I was going to blow the guy's advice off, but he claimed he knew Oscar Zuniga and had flown Scout. This caused me to pause. I checked with OZ and the guy is bona fide. > > OZ confirmed that the guy is eccentric, opinionated and has some wrong ideas. BUT he is also brilliant and really knows small planes and is an excellent small plane mechanic and has many right ideas. OZ has let him fly Scout from the back seat.> > Blue Skies, > Steve D> UNCLASSIFIED> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
I have wondered about the jury struts myself. The distance is so small from thestrut bracket to the jury strut bracket, that i suspect they add more drag thanadd any structural integrity. They might actually do something if they werestressed in tension when installed. This would put an unwanted and unnecessaryload on the strut however.$0.02Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 15:52:58 +0000 (UTC)
I have wondered about the jury struts myself. The distance is so small from thestrut bracket to the jury strut bracket, that i suspect they add more drag thanadd any structural integrity. They might actually do something if they werestressed in tension when installed. This would put an unwanted and unnecessaryload on the strut however.$0.02Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 15:52:58 +0000 (UTC)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: "echobravo4"
Hello Chad,I'm in eastern Ohio, in the Columbiana area. If you could make it over that wayI love to talk Piets and go flying.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Hello Chad,I'm in eastern Ohio, in the Columbiana area. If you could make it over that wayI love to talk Piets and go flying.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: "Avill"
UNFOUNDEDa new builder not far from me has "experts" telling him that the Piet fuselage is known to break at the tail and he needs to really beef-up that area!--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
UNFOUNDEDa new builder not far from me has "experts" telling him that the Piet fuselage is known to break at the tail and he needs to really beef-up that area!--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: Lion Mason
YepThere really is a very large knowledge base for the Pietenpol!It's amazing where the help can come from!--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
YepThere really is a very large knowledge base for the Pietenpol!It's amazing where the help can come from!--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
Jury struts make a great support for folding chairs tents and fishing poles or fly rods, or anything else you can't get on the cabin. Cheers, GardinerSent from my iPhoneOn May 23, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:> Does the jury strut support the strut or the wing?> > Jury struts keep the lift strut from buckling when in negative turbulence or when not quite making it over the top in a loop for example.> > Jim B.> > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________
Jury struts make a great support for folding chairs tents and fishing poles or fly rods, or anything else you can't get on the cabin. Cheers, GardinerSent from my iPhoneOn May 23, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:> Does the jury strut support the strut or the wing?> > Jury struts keep the lift strut from buckling when in negative turbulence or when not quite making it over the top in a loop for example.> > Jim B.> > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: one man's jury strut fitting ideaUNIMPRESSEDHere's the way I did my jury strut fittings, just like the way they were on my Aeronca Champ. I copied the Champ's designand it was much easier than the way Cubs fit the jury struts to the wing struts. Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Subject: Pietenpol-List: one man's jury strut fitting ideaUNIMPRESSEDHere's the way I did my jury strut fittings, just like the way they were on my Aeronca Champ. I copied the Champ's designand it was much easier than the way Cubs fit the jury struts to the wing struts. Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
When I was a youngster, a fellow used to fly his J-3 Cub from Richvale, Ca to Chico to attend Chico State College at the time. I was working at Ranchero Airport for lessons in their Aeronca. The guy with the Cub just strapped his full size bike to the struts and jury struts! He would take the bike off and ride to Campus for classes, then reverse the process. He said the plane was just one of their "old ones" and they did not mind the scratches! Guess it flew just fine, bet there was quit a yaw. He was one on the Lundbergs who grew up to run the Lundberg Rice conglomerate, Lundbergs Organic Rice. Bet you have eaten some of their rice cakes. When I finally grew up, got my PL And went to UC Davis, I did my PhD thesis research on his farm! He still had the Cub!Ray KrauseBuilding SkyScoutNow living in Colusa, CA, just 60 miles south of Colusa and 40 miles south of Richvale, very mall world!Sent from my iPadOn May 23, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Lion Mason wrote:> Jury struts make a great support for folding chairs tents and fishing poles or fly rods, or anything else you can't get on the cabin. Cheers, Gardiner> > Sent from my iPhone> > On May 23, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:> >> Does the jury strut support the strut or the wing?>> >> Jury struts keep the lift strut from buckling when in negative turbulence or when not quite making it over the top in a loop for example.>> >> Jim B.> > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________
When I was a youngster, a fellow used to fly his J-3 Cub from Richvale, Ca to Chico to attend Chico State College at the time. I was working at Ranchero Airport for lessons in their Aeronca. The guy with the Cub just strapped his full size bike to the struts and jury struts! He would take the bike off and ride to Campus for classes, then reverse the process. He said the plane was just one of their "old ones" and they did not mind the scratches! Guess it flew just fine, bet there was quit a yaw. He was one on the Lundbergs who grew up to run the Lundberg Rice conglomerate, Lundbergs Organic Rice. Bet you have eaten some of their rice cakes. When I finally grew up, got my PL And went to UC Davis, I did my PhD thesis research on his farm! He still had the Cub!Ray KrauseBuilding SkyScoutNow living in Colusa, CA, just 60 miles south of Colusa and 40 miles south of Richvale, very mall world!Sent from my iPadOn May 23, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Lion Mason wrote:> Jury struts make a great support for folding chairs tents and fishing poles or fly rods, or anything else you can't get on the cabin. Cheers, Gardiner> > Sent from my iPhone> > On May 23, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:> >> Does the jury strut support the strut or the wing?>> >> Jury struts keep the lift strut from buckling when in negative turbulence or when not quite making it over the top in a loop for example.>> >> Jim B.> > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts yes or no?
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
A strut is a "column". There are "long" columns and"short" columns. What defines each is the ratio ofcross section to length. Basicaly a jury strut turnsa long column into two short ones. The compressionforce that will bend either of the short ones goes updramaticaly over that of the single long , skinny one.So without a jury strut the wing strut would have tobe at least 3" deep to qualify as a "short" strut andbe able to handle the compression loads. Forsteamlining then, this silly thing would be 6" wide!!Hmmmm.... I think I'll go with jury struts meself.ClifIt ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that just ain't so." Josh Billings>> Alright I'll buy that. Keep the lift strut sound when loaded in > compression. Thanks!________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 05:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
A strut is a "column". There are "long" columns and"short" columns. What defines each is the ratio ofcross section to length. Basicaly a jury strut turnsa long column into two short ones. The compressionforce that will bend either of the short ones goes updramaticaly over that of the single long , skinny one.So without a jury strut the wing strut would have tobe at least 3" deep to qualify as a "short" strut andbe able to handle the compression loads. Forsteamlining then, this silly thing would be 6" wide!!Hmmmm.... I think I'll go with jury struts meself.ClifIt ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that just ain't so." Josh Billings>> Alright I'll buy that. Keep the lift strut sound when loaded in > compression. Thanks!________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 05:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question:
Original Posted By:> ** owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question:Hi Gary:That was simple enough. While I still have access to your Piet/Corvairexpertise, what measurement did you use to set the air gap between the tipend of the sender and the starter/flywheel ring? Thanks for your help.Bill -On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> Bill ' Close your eyes and pick one. You will be right 100% of the time.**> **>> ** **>> Gary Boothe****>> NX308MB****>> ** **>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question:Hi Gary:That was simple enough. While I still have access to your Piet/Corvairexpertise, what measurement did you use to set the air gap between the tipend of the sender and the starter/flywheel ring? Thanks for your help.Bill -On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> Bill ' Close your eyes and pick one. You will be right 100% of the time.**> **>> ** **>> Gary Boothe****>> NX308MB****>> ** **>
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question:
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
Hi ! BillI have the SW tach. The installation instructions say that polarity is not important.One lead to the tach the other to ground. The air gap for the senderis .030. Instructions say to adjust the sender by allowing it to just touchthe ring gear then back off 1/2 thread of the 3/4 X 16 UNF. Which should equal.030 from the flywheel. Model 990-K Sender Kit.DanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hi ! BillI have the SW tach. The installation instructions say that polarity is not important.One lead to the tach the other to ground. The air gap for the senderis .030. Instructions say to adjust the sender by allowing it to just touchthe ring gear then back off 1/2 thread of the 3/4 X 16 UNF. Which should equal.030 from the flywheel. Model 990-K Sender Kit.DanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________