Pietenpol-List: Tippiness

[matronics]

Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
Hi Folks,For the Continental powered machines: Just like to pass along some courtesy info,incase someone building might be interested. If you like the older-style 270deg sweep to your oil Temp/Press gauges w/out the clutter of wording writtenall over the face of the gauge, I found that the WW2 Jeeps have the perfect Temp/Pressscale for small Continentals. Here is the Intel on where/how I got mine...www.kaiserwillies.comOil Psi Item#A8190 $34Oil Temp #A8188 $50--------------------------I needed a 90" Capillary line for my Temp Probe, so I mailed the gauge to:Jeff Sunzeri981 Alder StreetHollister, CA 95023jeffsunzeri(at)gmail.comHaving new Capillary put on and calibrated to read accurately costed me $95 includingshipping. Will attempt to attach short video inflight..--------L.Metzel KLNCA65-8N2308CAN HardwareAirframe 712TTW72CK-42 SensenichStandard Factory GN-1Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 11:53:46 -0600Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tippiness

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Original Posted By: "Mark Roberts"
Gardiner, I just look that old. --------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tippiness

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Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Thanks for sharing this Ken! It will help me as I plan my gear build!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

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Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Are the gauges "mechanical", do they work without an electrical system? The referencein the catalogue to 12-24 volts refers to the lighting of the gauge only,right?Thanks,Ray KrauseSkyScoutSent from my iPadOn Jun 11, 2013, at 11:07 AM, "TriScout" wrote:> > ..couldn't get movie to load, but here's a fuzzy pic (idle power) from computer...asyou can see, the gauges fit the standard 2 1/8 inch holes in the instrumentpanel. Taken before I added the tape markings for the limitations.> > --------> L.Metzel > KLNC> A65-8> N2308C> AN Hardware> Airframe 712TT> W72CK-42 Sensenich> Standard Factory GN-1> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 517#402517> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/g_318.jpg> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: WW2 Jeep Gauges

[matronics]

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Yes...they are mechanical gauges. The electrical reference must mean for lighting...Larry--------L.Metzel KLNCA65-8N2308CAN HardwareAirframe 712TTW72CK-42 SensenichStandard Factory GN-1Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

[matronics]

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Nicely done, Ken. I live on 'precise estimates!' JGary BootheNX308MB

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Nicely done, Ken. I live on 'precise estimates!' JGary BootheNX308MB

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Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Slowly. We had just moved, and my wife thinks that un-packing is more importantthan fixing airplanes....haven't come up with a good argument! So far, just gotthe fabric off...GarySent from my iPhoneOn Jun 12, 2013, at 3:36 PM, "John Francis" wrote:> > Gary, I really have no idea what I'm talking about. How's the rebuild going?> > --------> John Francis> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 572#402572> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tippiness

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Original Posted By: "tools"
Ken,I have only briefly looked at your attachment. My question is this- based on theformulas you have provided, how will that influence/affect my build?I am familiar with the concept of a lateral CG when flying helicopters. What doI do to make this vertical CG a part of my project? I am just not sure I seethe significance.Thanks for your help on this.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tippiness

[matronics]

Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
I was wondering at first too, but came up with this...I imagine nearly ALL our planes will have similar vert cg locations with respectto, say, the top longeron.However, the distance of the vert cg to the ground... is going to be quite different.I suspect what that will tell us is, you're best to keep the location of the vertCG near where it was originally. OR, if it's gonna be much higher, you mightbe better off with a stiffer than average suspension to help maintain control.I'm now starting to understand rigid gear like a Fly Baby. Probably makesit a bit tamer on the gear, not necessarily GETTING it on the gear. Seems EVERYTHINGhas its compromises.Quick caveat. MANY of our planes have the wing raised a bit. THAT is gonna changethe vert cg really fast, which will affect ground handling.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 22:29:17 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tippiness

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Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Weather forecast for Saturday looks really good. Should be a good day.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/weat ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tippiness

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Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Ok: now is that the vertical CG or aircraft CG. Is that with the plane viewed fromthe front (when considering vertical CG), or viewed from the side ( when consideringthe plane CG) and if considering the plane CG is that with the planeleveled with the top longeron, or in the standard gear position with the tailwheel on the ground? As you can tell, I'm not and engineer, just an LAR (looksabout right) person who most always follows the plans.In Kitplanes sometime back (in the Dawn Patrol section), they discussed landinggear position and concluded that moving the gear forward or backwards (can'tremember which) on their WW1 planes. The results of the movement was dramatic!I am not sure this is a contribution!Thanks,Ray KrauseSkyScoutSent from my iPadOn Jun 12, 2013, at 10:58 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote:> > Ken,> > Thanks for uploading the Forum paper about landing gear design. > > The last paragraph on page 1 gave me what I was looking for-> > "On a front view, the angle between vertical and a line from CG to point of wheelcontact with ground should not be less than 25 degrees."> > That is what I was looking for. With so many differing dimensions of gear widththat have been mentioned, I agree that some guidance needs to be published,and this article gives it. My question pertained to the usefulness of the information,and this article does put it to use. Thanks for bringing that out.> > I guess the Grumman engineers slept through the landing gear design class incollege when they designed the gear on the F4F Wildcat!> > --------> Semper Fi,> > Terry Hand> Athens, GA> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 593#402593> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/f4f_4a_145.jpg> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:55:05 -0700 (PDT)

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Ray - That is as viewed from the front, which would affect 'tippiness.'Ken's brainiacs went on to consider that the vertical cg changes from tailup to tail down....very clever...I'm with you. LAR, and I knew my gear looked narrow!Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----

[matronics]

Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thanks, Gary. After sending my comment, I realized that using the plane's CG (with tail up, or tail down) would not matter if measuring the 25 degree anglefor the foot print to the plane's CG as viewed from the side.Now, what the hell was I trying to say?Thanks,Ray KrauseJust a SkyScout builderSent from my iPadOn Jun 13, 2013, at 11:25 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:> > Ray - That is as viewed from the front, which would affect 'tippiness.'> Ken's brainiacs went on to consider that the vertical cg changes from tail> up to tail down....very clever...> > I'm with you. LAR, and I knew my gear looked narrow!> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > -----Original Message-----

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Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tippiness

[matronics]

Original Posted By:>> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Great explanation! Even I can understand that! You sound like many of my graduate school profs! Nice that you take the time to "explane" it to those of us without the engineering degrees.Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPadOn Jun 13, 2013, at 12:35 PM, Ken Bickers wrote:> Ray, > > The way to think about this is that there is only one Center of Gravity (CG). It is a single point where all of the mass of the airplane is centered. > > Usually, we are concerned about where it is in the longitudinal orientation, i.e., viewed from the side of the airplane to see how far forward or back the CG is. That is how we determine whether the CG is in front of the center of lift. If it s, then an airplane is considered stable in the sense that when the wing is stalled, releasing the controls will cause the nose to fall, speed to increase, and a return to the wing producing lift. If the CG is behind the center of lift, very bad things can and will happen when the airplane stalls and even before that point if the distance between the two is very great.> > Looking from the front of the airplane, you can see whether the CG is located left or right of the prop spinner (on a single engine airplane). This is the lateral dimension of the CG. This dimension determines whether there is more weight on one wing than the other. If you've flown airplanes with wing tanks, you'll recognize this as a trim issue. Draining more fuel from one wing than the other forces you to fly with constant aileron inputs to try to raise the heavy wing. Cessna tries to get around this by letting you drain from both tanks simultaneously. Piper requires you to select one tank at a time. I've owned Pipers for the past 22 years, so the aileron thing is something I take for granted, sort of like holding rudder on climb out.> > You can see the vertical dimension of the CG from either the side or the front. Basically, you are looking to see how far above the bottom of the wheels the CG is located. When viewed in the vertical dimension, the CG determines tippiness. For the moment, however, consider its location when looking at the front of the airplane. If you compare two airplanes, one with a wide wheel base and one with a narrow wheel base but CGs in the same location vertically, the first will be less tippy than the second. Or put differently, if you compare two airplanes with the same wheel base but one with a low CG and the other with a high CG, the first will again be less tippy than the second. > > On my airplane, I've done two things that will make it more tippy. One, I have a center section fuel tank capable of holding 11 gallons. That is a lot of weight given the length of the lever arm from the CG (viewed vertically). Two, making this problem worse, I extended the cabane struts by just over 2 inches, increasing the lever arm even more. To compensate, I increased the wheel base by several inches. My wheel base is similar to Jack's at approximately 69 inches.> > I hope this helps, Ken> > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:>>> >> Ray - That is as viewed from the front, which would affect 'tippiness.'>> Ken's brainiacs went on to consider that the vertical cg changes from tail>> up to tail down....very clever...>> >> I'm with you. LAR, and I knew my gear looked narrow!>> >> Gary Boothe>> NX308MB>> >> -----Original Message-----