Original Posted By: WaltSnyder(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gluesHas anyone tried Gorilla glue, its great. I'd like to use it on the Piet- but havnt done any testing with it. Does anyone know of a homebuilt built with Gorilla glue?________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: glues
Re: Pietenpol-List: glues
Original Posted By: "Mike Bell"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: StepIn a message dated 09/09/2000 10:35:38 PM Central Daylight Time, catdesigns(at)juno.com writes:>Yea Chris...T.E.A.M Aircraft in Tennessee who put out the Mini-Max have a fiberglass 'insert' that was designed for use on their a/c. As I recall, it sold for somewhere in the range of $8-$12 . I installed it just aft of the rear cockpit on the left side. It sits on the bottom longeron at the diagonal where the pilot's seatback attaches. It looks good but has one drawback. It is oriented for your foot to go straight inward which has turned out to be awkward. I left it in but probably won'tuse it. It would have been much more useful had it been designed for your toe to go in at a forward angle. Don H. ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: glues
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: StepIn a message dated 09/09/2000 10:35:38 PM Central Daylight Time, catdesigns(at)juno.com writes:>Yea Chris...T.E.A.M Aircraft in Tennessee who put out the Mini-Max have a fiberglass 'insert' that was designed for use on their a/c. As I recall, it sold for somewhere in the range of $8-$12 . I installed it just aft of the rear cockpit on the left side. It sits on the bottom longeron at the diagonal where the pilot's seatback attaches. It looks good but has one drawback. It is oriented for your foot to go straight inward which has turned out to be awkward. I left it in but probably won'tuse it. It would have been much more useful had it been designed for your toe to go in at a forward angle. Don H. ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: glues
Pietenpol-List: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "bradandlinda tds.net"
That photo is awesome... Not sure how you managed to Photoshop out the snow...!--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:53:00 -0600Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: glues
That photo is awesome... Not sure how you managed to Photoshop out the snow...!--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:53:00 -0600Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: glues
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
I was concerned about that when I started manyyears ago. Then I discovered that at 160 the strengthis reduced by half. Doesn.t sound good, does it.Until you look at the numbers for the woods we use.Shear parallel to the grain for spruce is only 1120 lb,west.hemlock, 1170lb doug fir, 1140lb.In tests made by System Three they had wood failureat 1800lb but that was with Maple not spruce, etc. Thetensile strength of the glue itself is 7000lb.. half that is 3500.I don't think we have to worry too much about temperature.but a lot more about getting good, clean, well wettedjoints with the proper epoxy film thickness betweensurfaces.Also, just how many successful wood flying machineshave been, and still are, out there in the sky?ClifIt ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that just ain't so." Josh Billings The T88 epoxy you refers to is a very user friendly product. The only real drawback is thermal resistance.(about 160f is all it will take) Glen Schweizer ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 00:39:11 -0800
I was concerned about that when I started manyyears ago. Then I discovered that at 160 the strengthis reduced by half. Doesn.t sound good, does it.Until you look at the numbers for the woods we use.Shear parallel to the grain for spruce is only 1120 lb,west.hemlock, 1170lb doug fir, 1140lb.In tests made by System Three they had wood failureat 1800lb but that was with Maple not spruce, etc. Thetensile strength of the glue itself is 7000lb.. half that is 3500.I don't think we have to worry too much about temperature.but a lot more about getting good, clean, well wettedjoints with the proper epoxy film thickness betweensurfaces.Also, just how many successful wood flying machineshave been, and still are, out there in the sky?ClifIt ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that just ain't so." Josh Billings The T88 epoxy you refers to is a very user friendly product. The only real drawback is thermal resistance.(about 160f is all it will take) Glen Schweizer ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 00:39:11 -0800
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
Very nice!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Very nice!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "GNflyer"
T-88 System Three Resin, Inc. Aircraft (http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/l ... rcraft.pdf)--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
T-88 System Three Resin, Inc. Aircraft (http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/l ... rcraft.pdf)--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Hee Hee! it reminds me of another builders list I was on for years. whenever anew builder would get on it and ask about it the glue wars as we called themstarted again. invariably everybody had their reasons a certain glue wasn't nygood and theirs was perfect.I kinda think we all want to think we made the rightchoice whether we did or not. I bet any of the ones you are recommended onhere will work fine if you do the prep and follow he recommendations. ( I kindafavor buttermilk and flour myself_ :Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hee Hee! it reminds me of another builders list I was on for years. whenever anew builder would get on it and ask about it the glue wars as we called themstarted again. invariably everybody had their reasons a certain glue wasn't nygood and theirs was perfect.I kinda think we all want to think we made the rightchoice whether we did or not. I bet any of the ones you are recommended onhere will work fine if you do the prep and follow he recommendations. ( I kindafavor buttermilk and flour myself_ :Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
Original Posted By: "bdewenter"
I'd guess that a very large percentage of wood airplanes built today (doesanyone build wood airplanes anymore besides us??) are being built with T-88.It is a good, airworthy and proven glue which combines user friendlinesswith strength, with moisture resistance, with gap-filling properties withsanding ease and with a proven track record. You would not go wrong to useit, and though there are other good glues out there, I can't think of manyreasons to prefer them over a good proven epoxy.I would say fewer and fewer people are using Resorcinol these days. It ismore persnickety to use and one REALLY has to be a good carpenter because itwon't fill gaps, so you're joints must be VERY precise.The Bingilis books describe the different glue types pretty well, thoughit's getting a bit dated, he covers most of the ones out there.I personally had a bad experience with "plastic resin" glue.$.02Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
I'd guess that a very large percentage of wood airplanes built today (doesanyone build wood airplanes anymore besides us??) are being built with T-88.It is a good, airworthy and proven glue which combines user friendlinesswith strength, with moisture resistance, with gap-filling properties withsanding ease and with a proven track record. You would not go wrong to useit, and though there are other good glues out there, I can't think of manyreasons to prefer them over a good proven epoxy.I would say fewer and fewer people are using Resorcinol these days. It ismore persnickety to use and one REALLY has to be a good carpenter because itwon't fill gaps, so you're joints must be VERY precise.The Bingilis books describe the different glue types pretty well, thoughit's getting a bit dated, he covers most of the ones out there.I personally had a bad experience with "plastic resin" glue.$.02Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "dgaldrich"
gboothe wrote:> Looks great, Bob! Your gear looks wider than mine...which is a good> decision!> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > > --Gary,Thanks! I'm not sure it is wide enough. The inner "locks" needs to be slid toallow the wheel to come in enough for full 1" nut - right now only about halfthe threads on the nuts are doing their job. Wheels are at 56" on center now.When I move the inner locks I think I will be down to 54" - how wide is yours?I hate to think about paying another $140 to re-machine the axle, but I will ifI need toBob--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
gboothe wrote:> Looks great, Bob! Your gear looks wider than mine...which is a good> decision!> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > > --Gary,Thanks! I'm not sure it is wide enough. The inner "locks" needs to be slid toallow the wheel to come in enough for full 1" nut - right now only about halfthe threads on the nuts are doing their job. Wheels are at 56" on center now.When I move the inner locks I think I will be down to 54" - how wide is yours?I hate to think about paying another $140 to re-machine the axle, but I will ifI need toBob--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
Original Posted By: "bdewenter"
So here's a novel idea -- test it yourself. It's called experimental aviationfor a reason. Take some scrap pieces (we ALL have scrap pieces) and glue themtogether in a structure similar to that on the airplane. Make up several samplesand test them to destruction. If you're worried about heat degradation,bake em in a low oven for an hour or two. If you're curious about whether sandinghas an affect on the joint, make up a couple using both sanded and unsandedwood and break them using the stress in the axis you're concerned about.I have personally tested resorcinol, T-88, and West System on various sanded substratesas well as on varnished pieces. There's nothing like real world datato give you confidence that it's going to hold together.The one variable you can't easily test is the affect of aging but most of the recommendedglues have been in use in the marine world for decades so that shouldprobably be a secondary issue.DaveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
So here's a novel idea -- test it yourself. It's called experimental aviationfor a reason. Take some scrap pieces (we ALL have scrap pieces) and glue themtogether in a structure similar to that on the airplane. Make up several samplesand test them to destruction. If you're worried about heat degradation,bake em in a low oven for an hour or two. If you're curious about whether sandinghas an affect on the joint, make up a couple using both sanded and unsandedwood and break them using the stress in the axis you're concerned about.I have personally tested resorcinol, T-88, and West System on various sanded substratesas well as on varnished pieces. There's nothing like real world datato give you confidence that it's going to hold together.The one variable you can't easily test is the affect of aging but most of the recommendedglues have been in use in the marine world for decades so that shouldprobably be a secondary issue.DaveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "tools"
Mine's 52 1/2". Gear widening is scheduled for December. I can easily get another6". More than that will be a much larger project.GarySent from my iPhone> On Nov 30, 2013, at 9:12 AM, "bdewenter" wrote:> > > > gboothe wrote:>> Looks great, Bob! Your gear looks wider than mine...which is a good>> decision!>> >> Gary Boothe>> NX308MB>> >> >> --> > > Gary,> > Thanks! I'm not sure it is wide enough. The inner "locks" needs to be slid toallow the wheel to come in enough for full 1" nut - right now only about halfthe threads on the nuts are doing their job. Wheels are at 56" on center now.When I move the inner locks I think I will be down to 54" - how wide is yours?> > I hate to think about paying another $140 to re-machine the axle, but I willif I need to> > Bob> > --------> Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter> Dayton OH> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 651#414651> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Mine's 52 1/2". Gear widening is scheduled for December. I can easily get another6". More than that will be a much larger project.GarySent from my iPhone> On Nov 30, 2013, at 9:12 AM, "bdewenter" wrote:> > > > gboothe wrote:>> Looks great, Bob! Your gear looks wider than mine...which is a good>> decision!>> >> Gary Boothe>> NX308MB>> >> >> --> > > Gary,> > Thanks! I'm not sure it is wide enough. The inner "locks" needs to be slid toallow the wheel to come in enough for full 1" nut - right now only about halfthe threads on the nuts are doing their job. Wheels are at 56" on center now.When I move the inner locks I think I will be down to 54" - how wide is yours?> > I hate to think about paying another $140 to re-machine the axle, but I willif I need to> > Bob> > --------> Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter> Dayton OH> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 651#414651> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Not trying to start something, but along the idea of testing your own...Is there any reason yellow glue isn't acceptable? I've built LOTS of furniturewith it that has seen LOTS of conditions. Indoor stuff, outdoor stuff, stuffin the sun, stuff on trucks subject to vibration, stuff I load the ever livingdaylights out of (benches and such) and have never had a glue joint fail thatwas properly built and glued up. Titebond II even has lots of water proofness.Not really knowing the answer to that myself, I'm not necessarily planning to useit, but i have always wondered. I have recently found lots of great information from the boat guys on using epoxythat I really like. Boat hulls certainly see conditions rougher than I'llever put an airplane through. I'm planning on using T88 (and am using it forsome comprehensive repairs - longeron scarfing, tail post replacement, etc) butam considering using some West System stuff.Food for thought.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Not trying to start something, but along the idea of testing your own...Is there any reason yellow glue isn't acceptable? I've built LOTS of furniturewith it that has seen LOTS of conditions. Indoor stuff, outdoor stuff, stuffin the sun, stuff on trucks subject to vibration, stuff I load the ever livingdaylights out of (benches and such) and have never had a glue joint fail thatwas properly built and glued up. Titebond II even has lots of water proofness.Not really knowing the answer to that myself, I'm not necessarily planning to useit, but i have always wondered. I have recently found lots of great information from the boat guys on using epoxythat I really like. Boat hulls certainly see conditions rougher than I'llever put an airplane through. I'm planning on using T88 (and am using it forsome comprehensive repairs - longeron scarfing, tail post replacement, etc) butam considering using some West System stuff.Food for thought.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner
Fine Woodworking did a comparison test years ago on various glues, not sure what year or issue, (think google if interested), but Titebond was one of the glues compared to several epoxies and it compared favorably. Only reason to not use epoxy that I can see is allergy to epoxy. Some people develop it working with epoxy grout in commercial tile applications and they break out something fierce. From then on they are not supposed to use the stuff.Dennis-----Original Message-----
Fine Woodworking did a comparison test years ago on various glues, not sure what year or issue, (think google if interested), but Titebond was one of the glues compared to several epoxies and it compared favorably. Only reason to not use epoxy that I can see is allergy to epoxy. Some people develop it working with epoxy grout in commercial tile applications and they break out something fierce. From then on they are not supposed to use the stuff.Dennis-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "dgaldrich"
Hey, this pietenpol site is going downhill fast, how do we get rid of jerks, mywife will not sign on anymore. GardinerSent from my iPad> On Dec 1, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:> > > Hmm.hopefully this experience doesnt turn Jim off of Pietenpols altogether; Iwas looking forward to seeing him at Brodhead. He would be relatively easy tofind at the various highlights of the weekend:> > The Textors lunch: "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE.WHO THE F*** IS JACK TEXTOR? WHAT THE F*** IS A BRATWURST?"> > The fish boil: "I DONT GIVE A S*** WHERE THE FISH COMES FROM OR WHO BOILED ITAND I SURE DONT WANT TO BE HERE AND SMELL LIKE IT!"> > The raffle: "I have no idea who this Doc" guy is. all I know is that he keepssending me newsletters wanting stories and pictures."> > Checking out the items for sale at the pavilion: who is this guy? why is he sellingribs on this picnic table? the last ribs I bought came from a drunk indianon the street Glendale, az and I didn't care where he got them.> > Breakfast in the chapter hangar: "all im doing is out here to get info on buildingthe plane. what little money I have is needed to build the f****** plane.I aint giving nothing to a pancake salesman. if I need a pancake ill stealit from the Sand Burr.> > Cest la vie.hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving,> > Ryan> > >> On Dec 1, 2013, at 9:48 AM, echobravo4 wrote:>> >> >> Yea, got one early on>> Think John R. Got one too>> >> -------->> Earl Brown>> >> I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up whereI intended to be.>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 690#414690> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Hey, this pietenpol site is going downhill fast, how do we get rid of jerks, mywife will not sign on anymore. GardinerSent from my iPad> On Dec 1, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:> > > Hmm.hopefully this experience doesnt turn Jim off of Pietenpols altogether; Iwas looking forward to seeing him at Brodhead. He would be relatively easy tofind at the various highlights of the weekend:> > The Textors lunch: "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE.WHO THE F*** IS JACK TEXTOR? WHAT THE F*** IS A BRATWURST?"> > The fish boil: "I DONT GIVE A S*** WHERE THE FISH COMES FROM OR WHO BOILED ITAND I SURE DONT WANT TO BE HERE AND SMELL LIKE IT!"> > The raffle: "I have no idea who this Doc" guy is. all I know is that he keepssending me newsletters wanting stories and pictures."> > Checking out the items for sale at the pavilion: who is this guy? why is he sellingribs on this picnic table? the last ribs I bought came from a drunk indianon the street Glendale, az and I didn't care where he got them.> > Breakfast in the chapter hangar: "all im doing is out here to get info on buildingthe plane. what little money I have is needed to build the f****** plane.I aint giving nothing to a pancake salesman. if I need a pancake ill stealit from the Sand Burr.> > Cest la vie.hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving,> > Ryan> > >> On Dec 1, 2013, at 9:48 AM, echobravo4 wrote:>> >> >> Yea, got one early on>> Think John R. Got one too>> >> -------->> Earl Brown>> >> I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up whereI intended to be.>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 690#414690> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Hi Steve... I just started my project, So Im only a few days work ahead of you.If I can help , just give me a holler.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Hi Steve... I just started my project, So Im only a few days work ahead of you.If I can help , just give me a holler.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I think it was Dave Aldrich (?) who commented that the only reason he could think of to not use epoxy was if you were allergic. Actually, I find a number of (non aircraft) situations where Titebond is the better choice. For example, If I'm edge-joining two long boards to make a table top or something similar, it's much easier to work with than epoxy (just run the bead & join), has a longer working time than most epoxies, and cleans up easier, which makes later finishing better. Just one example, there are others.I still like epoxy, but there are some applications where I just find it a pain to work with and Titebond simplifies things.Kip GardnerOn Dec 1, 2013, at 11:29 PM, taildrags wrote:> >>> Douwe; as to your question about anyone else building wooden > airplanes besides us, the only other group I'm familiar with are the > KR builders. The KR uses a wood structure with foam infill and > fiberglass skin. It also uses wood spars and other framing > members. The discussions on the KRNet are quite similar to ours, > with T88 predomindating but various other adhesives being used for > the wooden parts. West Systems seems to be mentioned frequently.>> I, too, wonder about Titebond III. It is an excellent adhesive, > proven and tested waterproof, and if I understand the product > literature correctly it has a shear strength of 4000 psi at room > temperature, vs the listed shear strength for T88 of 2500 psi at > 67F. They both lose strength at elevated temperatures (150F or > so). Still, as Clif pointed out, the glue strength is at least as > good as the wood strength at those temperatures. There are many > benefits to using Titebond... it's a one-part adhesive that works > well at most shop temperatures, is widely available (I've never seen > T88 in a hardware store, but I see Titebond II and III in most such > stores), dries clear, and is easy to clean up.>> --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
I think it was Dave Aldrich (?) who commented that the only reason he could think of to not use epoxy was if you were allergic. Actually, I find a number of (non aircraft) situations where Titebond is the better choice. For example, If I'm edge-joining two long boards to make a table top or something similar, it's much easier to work with than epoxy (just run the bead & join), has a longer working time than most epoxies, and cleans up easier, which makes later finishing better. Just one example, there are others.I still like epoxy, but there are some applications where I just find it a pain to work with and Titebond simplifies things.Kip GardnerOn Dec 1, 2013, at 11:29 PM, taildrags wrote:> >>> Douwe; as to your question about anyone else building wooden > airplanes besides us, the only other group I'm familiar with are the > KR builders. The KR uses a wood structure with foam infill and > fiberglass skin. It also uses wood spars and other framing > members. The discussions on the KRNet are quite similar to ours, > with T88 predomindating but various other adhesives being used for > the wooden parts. West Systems seems to be mentioned frequently.>> I, too, wonder about Titebond III. It is an excellent adhesive, > proven and tested waterproof, and if I understand the product > literature correctly it has a shear strength of 4000 psi at room > temperature, vs the listed shear strength for T88 of 2500 psi at > 67F. They both lose strength at elevated temperatures (150F or > so). Still, as Clif pointed out, the glue strength is at least as > good as the wood strength at those temperatures. There are many > benefits to using Titebond... it's a one-part adhesive that works > well at most shop temperatures, is widely available (I've never seen > T88 in a hardware store, but I see Titebond II and III in most such > stores), dries clear, and is easy to clean up.>> --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner
So, the old "glue discussion" comes up once again. Not sure why it keeps reoccurring.Do a quick search of the archives and see how many times this has beenrehashed.The short answer (not that there actually was a question posed) is that T-88 (orequivalent 2-part epoxy) is pretty much the standard adhesive for constructionof wooden aircraft today. It is pretty simple to use (1:1 mixing, by volume,has a decent pot life, and cures overnight.) Polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glueand the like) are NOT recommended, so don't use them to build your aircraft.Titebond III appears to be a very good wood adhesive, and may well prove tobe a satisfactory glue for building a wooden aircraft, but it is so-far unproven(in aircraft structures). There are no tabletops in a Piet.Regarding the so-called expensive nature of T-88, you'll only need about $100 worthto build the whole aircraft. Not a significant amount in the overall picture.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
So, the old "glue discussion" comes up once again. Not sure why it keeps reoccurring.Do a quick search of the archives and see how many times this has beenrehashed.The short answer (not that there actually was a question posed) is that T-88 (orequivalent 2-part epoxy) is pretty much the standard adhesive for constructionof wooden aircraft today. It is pretty simple to use (1:1 mixing, by volume,has a decent pot life, and cures overnight.) Polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glueand the like) are NOT recommended, so don't use them to build your aircraft.Titebond III appears to be a very good wood adhesive, and may well prove tobe a satisfactory glue for building a wooden aircraft, but it is so-far unproven(in aircraft structures). There are no tabletops in a Piet.Regarding the so-called expensive nature of T-88, you'll only need about $100 worthto build the whole aircraft. Not a significant amount in the overall picture.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: Chuck Campbell
I think it keeps coming up because the 'official' information is so dated (thanks FAA), and we have so few real choices that are accepted to be safe. You may find T-88 easy to work with, I generally consider all epoxies a pain to one degree or another and use them mainly due to "Hobson's choice".Kip GardnerOn Dec 2, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Bill Church wrote:> >>> So, the old "glue discussion" comes up once again. Not sure why it > keeps reoccurring. Do a quick search of the archives and see how > many times this has been rehashed.> The short answer (not that there actually was a question posed) is > that T-88 (or equivalent 2-part epoxy) is pretty much the standard > adhesive for construction of wooden aircraft today. It is pretty > simple to use (1:1 mixing, by volume, has a decent pot life, and > cures overnight.) Polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glue and the like) > are NOT recommended, so don't use them to build your aircraft. > Titebond III appears to be a very good wood adhesive, and may well > prove to be a satisfactory glue for building a wooden aircraft, but > it is so-far unproven (in aircraft structures). There are no > tabletops in a Piet.> Regarding the so-called expensive nature of T-88, you'll only need > about $100 worth to build the whole aircraft. Not a significant > amount in the overall picture.> Bill C.>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I think it keeps coming up because the 'official' information is so dated (thanks FAA), and we have so few real choices that are accepted to be safe. You may find T-88 easy to work with, I generally consider all epoxies a pain to one degree or another and use them mainly due to "Hobson's choice".Kip GardnerOn Dec 2, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Bill Church wrote:> >>> So, the old "glue discussion" comes up once again. Not sure why it > keeps reoccurring. Do a quick search of the archives and see how > many times this has been rehashed.> The short answer (not that there actually was a question posed) is > that T-88 (or equivalent 2-part epoxy) is pretty much the standard > adhesive for construction of wooden aircraft today. It is pretty > simple to use (1:1 mixing, by volume, has a decent pot life, and > cures overnight.) Polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glue and the like) > are NOT recommended, so don't use them to build your aircraft. > Titebond III appears to be a very good wood adhesive, and may well > prove to be a satisfactory glue for building a wooden aircraft, but > it is so-far unproven (in aircraft structures). There are no > tabletops in a Piet.> Regarding the so-called expensive nature of T-88, you'll only need > about $100 worth to build the whole aircraft. Not a significant > amount in the overall picture.> Bill C.>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: glues
Original Posted By: "braywood"
Jim; when are you going to get your territory manager to reassign you out West?You're missing a lot by not coming out this way! At the very least, see ifyou can get a training assignment to the Bay Area or San Jose next June, so youcan come to the West Coast Piet Fly-In. You might be surprised how many peoplemight leave tools laying around intentionally, just to get you out here!A bright and shining star in the wonderful world of Piet personalities. Our ownJim Markle!--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glues
Jim; when are you going to get your territory manager to reassign you out West?You're missing a lot by not coming out this way! At the very least, see ifyou can get a training assignment to the Bay Area or San Jose next June, so youcan come to the West Coast Piet Fly-In. You might be surprised how many peoplemight leave tools laying around intentionally, just to get you out here!A bright and shining star in the wonderful world of Piet personalities. Our ownJim Markle!--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glues
Pietenpol-List: Re: It is no longer "Lance Captain" Mike Danford
Original Posted By: "edwoerle"
Yeah, not a big fan of "plastic resin" glues.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: It is no longer "Lance Captain" Mike Danford
Yeah, not a big fan of "plastic resin" glues.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: It is no longer "Lance Captain" Mike Danford
Pietenpol-List: Re: It is no longer "Lance Captain" Mike Danford
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Gosh, when I quit Delta in 86 I thought they were probably just about of them Navy surplus double breasted suits. Apparently, I was wrong.Why don't you call your airplane by its' real name (DC-9) on steroids.Do they stillhave the DC3 and the Fairchild? Now, THERES's a couple of beauties!--------Just east of GracelandRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: It is no longer "Lance Captain" Mike Danford
Gosh, when I quit Delta in 86 I thought they were probably just about of them Navy surplus double breasted suits. Apparently, I was wrong.Why don't you call your airplane by its' real name (DC-9) on steroids.Do they stillhave the DC3 and the Fairchild? Now, THERES's a couple of beauties!--------Just east of GracelandRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: It is no longer "Lance Captain" Mike Danford
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Ed,DC-9 on some crappy steroids, if you ask me.I have a DC-9 type because of flying the MD88, although I have never set foot inthe cockpit of any DC-9.Makes sense to me.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Ed,DC-9 on some crappy steroids, if you ask me.I have a DC-9 type because of flying the MD88, although I have never set foot inthe cockpit of any DC-9.Makes sense to me.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: Glen Schweizer
Subject: Fwd: gluesI checked my notes. That composite expert was saying the only glue to usein aviation is resorcinol. I couldn't find the glue he really hated, but itwas something like T33. He referenced the advisory circular 43-13. Said itwas really well done.He wasn't FAA I don't think. Most people that were in the accident course,teaching it, were not FAA.Good (only): ResorcinolAC43-13________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:07:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fwd: gluesI checked my notes. That composite expert was saying the only glue to usein aviation is resorcinol. I couldn't find the glue he really hated, but itwas something like T33. He referenced the advisory circular 43-13. Said itwas really well done.He wasn't FAA I don't think. Most people that were in the accident course,teaching it, were not FAA.Good (only): ResorcinolAC43-13________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:07:06 -0800 (PST)
> Fwd: glues
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
>Subject: Fwd: glues>To: Williams Brad >>>I checked my notes. That composite expert was saying the only glue to use>in aviation is resorcinol. I couldn't find the glue he really hated, but it>was something like T33. He referenced the advisory circular 43-13. Said it>was really well done.>>He wasn't FAA I don't think. Most people that were in the accident course,>teaching it, were not FAA.>>>Good (only): Resorcinol>>AC43-13________________________________________________________________________________
>Subject: Fwd: glues>To: Williams Brad >>>I checked my notes. That composite expert was saying the only glue to use>in aviation is resorcinol. I couldn't find the glue he really hated, but it>was something like T33. He referenced the advisory circular 43-13. Said it>was really well done.>>He wasn't FAA I don't think. Most people that were in the accident course,>teaching it, were not FAA.>>>Good (only): Resorcinol>>AC43-13________________________________________________________________________________