Original Posted By: "john francis"
Good eye Jack! I caught that later that afternoon and am really puzzled byit actually. I fueled up before I left and am as sure as possible that Ididn't replace it backwards. Yet I can't imagine someone turning it aroundat the fly-in unless it was a bad joke. Scared the pants off me that I couldhave done that.Regarding Louvers, I did like Mike but found a place online that punchedlouvers. I had them punch them according to a drawing and send me the sheetwhich I then made into my cowling inspection/access hatches. Find a hot rodshop/machine shop (I guess they still exist)I gap sealed my tail surfaces. I used balsa also, but attached it to bothsides to meet in the middle. Don't know if it helped the flyingcharacteristics 'cause I never flew RE-PIET without 'em. 1" seems a lot,and you can't hurt anything by adding them.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: By butt & butt joints
Pietenpol-List: By butt & butt joints
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
A butt joint is the weakest joint in woodworking. I see in the plans the two stringersunder the seat are that. Has anyone done anything to reinforce thesestringers? I dont believe it would take much downward force to pop those jointsloose. I understand the seat itself is supported around the perimeter buta couple of Gs might be enough downward force to break these boards loose andI wouldnt want them floating around in that area. Your thoughts?--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn ... ______Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 07:55:12 -0700
A butt joint is the weakest joint in woodworking. I see in the plans the two stringersunder the seat are that. Has anyone done anything to reinforce thesestringers? I dont believe it would take much downward force to pop those jointsloose. I understand the seat itself is supported around the perimeter buta couple of Gs might be enough downward force to break these boards loose andI wouldnt want them floating around in that area. Your thoughts?--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn ... ______Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 07:55:12 -0700
Re: Pietenpol-List: gas vent, louvers and gap seals...
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Pietenpol-List: Re: By butt & butt joints
Original Posted By: "john francis"
John,WestCoastPiets man! Mike Cuy has several pictures of a beefed up seat supportGoing to Barnwell this fall?--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: By butt & butt joints
John,WestCoastPiets man! Mike Cuy has several pictures of a beefed up seat supportGoing to Barnwell this fall?--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: By butt & butt joints
Pietenpol-List: Re: My butt & butt joints
Original Posted By: "john francis"
Yep, I agree. Thanks for the picture.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My butt & butt joints
Yep, I agree. Thanks for the picture.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My butt & butt joints
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
Bob,Now Im confused. I am told to get off the computer and build, build, build. Doyou expect me to view every picture on westcoastpiet?? I know how I would supportit but wondered if any one else had. If you follow the plans (as Michaelsays) the seat is the gusset if glued down.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Bob,Now Im confused. I am told to get off the computer and build, build, build. Doyou expect me to view every picture on westcoastpiet?? I know how I would supportit but wondered if any one else had. If you follow the plans (as Michaelsays) the seat is the gusset if glued down.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: By butt & butt joints
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Thank you for the good words Bob Dewenter! I'm thrilled a video of my Piet encouraged you to build. This plane has a way about it that just sparks peopleinto building when they see one that motivates them highly. Getting to fly Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy got me building and I never looked back. Great little airplane.And you're doing GREAT John Francis because you're asking questions AND cutting wood and gluing wood. I spent about 30 minutes every day reading the Bingelis booksand talking/ calling other builders (Before Al Gore invented the internet) when I had questions and it paid off.Here's the way I setup my front seat after I had the original design crack a support loose before 1st flight. One detail in the attached/imbedded photo is the1/8" thick doubler I glued to the seat front face bulkhead-----Frank P. suggested I double up both L & R sides where the rudder bar/ foot movement on the ruddercan crack that thin 1/8" piece over time. Not 100% necessary but I'm glad I glued those pieces in there.Mike C.[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CFC8FF.55A36120]________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: By butt & butt joints
Thank you for the good words Bob Dewenter! I'm thrilled a video of my Piet encouraged you to build. This plane has a way about it that just sparks peopleinto building when they see one that motivates them highly. Getting to fly Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy got me building and I never looked back. Great little airplane.And you're doing GREAT John Francis because you're asking questions AND cutting wood and gluing wood. I spent about 30 minutes every day reading the Bingelis booksand talking/ calling other builders (Before Al Gore invented the internet) when I had questions and it paid off.Here's the way I setup my front seat after I had the original design crack a support loose before 1st flight. One detail in the attached/imbedded photo is the1/8" thick doubler I glued to the seat front face bulkhead-----Frank P. suggested I double up both L & R sides where the rudder bar/ foot movement on the ruddercan crack that thin 1/8" piece over time. Not 100% necessary but I'm glad I glued those pieces in there.Mike C.[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CFC8FF.55A36120]________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: By butt & butt joints
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: By butt & butt joints
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sorry to be so late replying, but I've been out of town.I agree with William, the photo showing the front of the rear seat supportis not the best way to do it. The good news is, you know exactly where it is likely to fail (right in themiddle). Far better to make a continuous "Shear Web" across the front ofthe seat to help distribute the loads. The rear seat takes some heavy loadswhen entering and exiting the cockpit as well as in flight. Typically, mostpilots enter a Pietenpol rear cokcpit by standing on the rear seat, whichputs a point load of some 200 lbs +/- right on the seat. This load getstransferred through the seat structure down to the lower longerons.Ideally, you want that point load to become a "distributed load" as quicklyas possible. The design shown will actually tend to concentrate much ofthat load toward the middle of the fuselage, in between the longerons.Hopefully, the seat bottom is heavy enough plywood to distribute the loadefficiently to the sides and down to the lower longerons.Why is the cross member under the seat missing in the middle? Is it toprovide access to the control torque tube? If so, I'd say that isun-necessary. In 10 years of flying mine, I've never needed access to thetorque tube, other than to apply lubrication during the annual ConditionInspections.I'm all for modifying the original design if it can be improved upon. Imade many modifications to the plans when building mine, and some of themwere improvements. Most were not. I've flown many Pietenpols and I cantruthfully say that the ones that fly best are the ones closest to the plansdesign. Those closer to the plans than mine fly better than mine. Bernardwas really a very good engineer and his way of doing things is usually best.This is one of those areas where it would be best to stick to the plans.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Sorry to be so late replying, but I've been out of town.I agree with William, the photo showing the front of the rear seat supportis not the best way to do it. The good news is, you know exactly where it is likely to fail (right in themiddle). Far better to make a continuous "Shear Web" across the front ofthe seat to help distribute the loads. The rear seat takes some heavy loadswhen entering and exiting the cockpit as well as in flight. Typically, mostpilots enter a Pietenpol rear cokcpit by standing on the rear seat, whichputs a point load of some 200 lbs +/- right on the seat. This load getstransferred through the seat structure down to the lower longerons.Ideally, you want that point load to become a "distributed load" as quicklyas possible. The design shown will actually tend to concentrate much ofthat load toward the middle of the fuselage, in between the longerons.Hopefully, the seat bottom is heavy enough plywood to distribute the loadefficiently to the sides and down to the lower longerons.Why is the cross member under the seat missing in the middle? Is it toprovide access to the control torque tube? If so, I'd say that isun-necessary. In 10 years of flying mine, I've never needed access to thetorque tube, other than to apply lubrication during the annual ConditionInspections.I'm all for modifying the original design if it can be improved upon. Imade many modifications to the plans when building mine, and some of themwere improvements. Most were not. I've flown many Pietenpols and I cantruthfully say that the ones that fly best are the ones closest to the plansdesign. Those closer to the plans than mine fly better than mine. Bernardwas really a very good engineer and his way of doing things is usually best.This is one of those areas where it would be best to stick to the plans.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----