Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
Peter, Sorry it took so long flight r a response. I just returned from vacation. DadsGN-1 cabane lengths are both 21" front and rear. I haven't heard back from MikeMadrid yet. You should be in the ballpark with yours. Regards,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
tools wrote:> Awesome! Did ya log it? The instrument time.. HeheVisual meteorological conditions all the way around, baby, and at least 501 feetfrom all people, pets, plants, and other living things.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
tools wrote:> Awesome! Did ya log it? The instrument time.. HeheVisual meteorological conditions all the way around, baby, and at least 501 feetfrom all people, pets, plants, and other living things.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
aerocarjake wrote:> Awesome...! I didn't get a chance to fly today but I was up till 1:00 am workingon the Piet - so I'm that much closer...! > > A colleague from work is coming over to visit my project today. He is beginninga Pietenpol project...!> > Thanks Jeff...!Glad you liked it. A bunch of us at Toogahnein are trying to take a lesson fromthis, but all I can say is, all the local airports were calling VFR and therewas an awful lot of blue sky overhead when I took off, so I'm not sure what I'ddo differently next time. Even when I got back on the ground and looking up,the scud just faded into the background of a high overcast. Now, within 30 minof rolling the Piet into the hangar, a lot more stuff rolled in that was veryclearly low and bad, so that was an easy call to go get a coffee. I do plan to practice my spirals down to a landing.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
aerocarjake wrote:> Awesome...! I didn't get a chance to fly today but I was up till 1:00 am workingon the Piet - so I'm that much closer...! > > A colleague from work is coming over to visit my project today. He is beginninga Pietenpol project...!> > Thanks Jeff...!Glad you liked it. A bunch of us at Toogahnein are trying to take a lesson fromthis, but all I can say is, all the local airports were calling VFR and therewas an awful lot of blue sky overhead when I took off, so I'm not sure what I'ddo differently next time. Even when I got back on the ground and looking up,the scud just faded into the background of a high overcast. Now, within 30 minof rolling the Piet into the hangar, a lot more stuff rolled in that was veryclearly low and bad, so that was an easy call to go get a coffee. I do plan to practice my spirals down to a landing.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Oh, I get it! The craziest VFR landing I ever did was a time when I called thetower to lower the landing light intensity... and then on roll out I couldn'tsee ANYTHING!!! Just one of those crazy things...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Oh, I get it! The craziest VFR landing I ever did was a time when I called thetower to lower the landing light intensity... and then on roll out I couldn'tsee ANYTHING!!! Just one of those crazy things...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
John wrote:"Apparently, the first nine measurements inside the wing profile are measured fromthe reference line. Starting about number 10, the measurements are from thebottom capstrip." Where did you get this idea from?There are dimensions positioned underneath the reference line. These dimensionsare from the reference line to the underside of the airfoil.Then there are dimensions positioned inside the airfoil shape. these dimensionsare from the bottom surface of the airfoil to the top of the airfoil.There is one exception to this convention, and that occurs at the first positionfrom the leading edge, where no lower dimension has been provided - just onedimension, from reference line to top of airfoil (in this case 2").I'm assuming that you're using genuine Pietenpol plans (snapshot attached, forreference).If you drew up your airfoil profile using the interpretation you stated above,you will end up with a distorted airfoil, and no doubt would have difficulty locatingyour leading edge at the 1 1/2" height. I suggest you try redrawing theairfoil, using the proper dimensions. It works. Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
John wrote:"Apparently, the first nine measurements inside the wing profile are measured fromthe reference line. Starting about number 10, the measurements are from thebottom capstrip." Where did you get this idea from?There are dimensions positioned underneath the reference line. These dimensionsare from the reference line to the underside of the airfoil.Then there are dimensions positioned inside the airfoil shape. these dimensionsare from the bottom surface of the airfoil to the top of the airfoil.There is one exception to this convention, and that occurs at the first positionfrom the leading edge, where no lower dimension has been provided - just onedimension, from reference line to top of airfoil (in this case 2").I'm assuming that you're using genuine Pietenpol plans (snapshot attached, forreference).If you drew up your airfoil profile using the interpretation you stated above,you will end up with a distorted airfoil, and no doubt would have difficulty locatingyour leading edge at the 1 1/2" height. I suggest you try redrawing theairfoil, using the proper dimensions. It works. Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Run Full Video
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Thank you Bill. I have the genuine plans, ordered from the official site. I'm attachinga photo I took when it arrived.1) I drew a straight reference line.2) I made marks from left to right as depicted on the profile view (1/2", thenseven 1" and so on. As you know, it ends up 60 1/8".3) to draw the bottom, I used the measurements written just above the spacing measurements(just below the reference line).4) to draw the top, I measured from the bottom (capstrip) line using the measurementsprovided within the wing.5) I later drew the top line measuring from the bottom reference line.When I overlaid my sketch with the full size rib drawing (which has shrunk about1/8"), the bottom capstrip lines up nicely. The upper capstrip, however, hitthe marks measured from the reference line and around the tenth point, seemsto match my marks measuring from the bottom capstrip line.Under the tracing paper, at the top capstrip, you can make out marks I have showingwhere the measurements using the horizontal reference line ended up.I just thought it was odd and measured everything again (all measurements withthe same ruler).The profile shows the LE hits a forward vertical reference line 1 1/2" from thehorizontal reference line. I'm not sure how that can happen using the full sizerib drawing I have; and even with the rib drawn using the measurements, itstill won't work.I'll check it again tomorrow. I'll use a different ruler. Oh, I even wore my eyeglassesfor this.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/plan ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Run Full Video
Thank you Bill. I have the genuine plans, ordered from the official site. I'm attachinga photo I took when it arrived.1) I drew a straight reference line.2) I made marks from left to right as depicted on the profile view (1/2", thenseven 1" and so on. As you know, it ends up 60 1/8".3) to draw the bottom, I used the measurements written just above the spacing measurements(just below the reference line).4) to draw the top, I measured from the bottom (capstrip) line using the measurementsprovided within the wing.5) I later drew the top line measuring from the bottom reference line.When I overlaid my sketch with the full size rib drawing (which has shrunk about1/8"), the bottom capstrip lines up nicely. The upper capstrip, however, hitthe marks measured from the reference line and around the tenth point, seemsto match my marks measuring from the bottom capstrip line.Under the tracing paper, at the top capstrip, you can make out marks I have showingwhere the measurements using the horizontal reference line ended up.I just thought it was odd and measured everything again (all measurements withthe same ruler).The profile shows the LE hits a forward vertical reference line 1 1/2" from thehorizontal reference line. I'm not sure how that can happen using the full sizerib drawing I have; and even with the rib drawn using the measurements, itstill won't work.I'll check it again tomorrow. I'll use a different ruler. Oh, I even wore my eyeglassesfor this.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/plan ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Run Full Video
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
Amazing that Andrew Pietenpol would call me. He said:1) can build either the full size rib OR the rib from drawing 5. There's an 86year difference between the two (his words).2) Keep it simple.3) Stick to the plans.4) keep it lightIt sure says something when he can take the time out of his life to chat with abuilder.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Amazing that Andrew Pietenpol would call me. He said:1) can build either the full size rib OR the rib from drawing 5. There's an 86year difference between the two (his words).2) Keep it simple.3) Stick to the plans.4) keep it lightIt sure says something when he can take the time out of his life to chat with abuilder.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
hello... I watched your video and it does look like a confusing discrepancy...?!?!? (Since I bought my wings that another person had built, I have not much to offerin regards to this question.)--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
hello... I watched your video and it does look like a confusing discrepancy...?!?!? (Since I bought my wings that another person had built, I have not much to offerin regards to this question.)--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
Hi John,The rib on page 30 in the orange manual the family sells is the rib from the PietenpolAir Camper articles in the 1932 Flying and Glider manual. I took a couplepics of the illustration from my respective copies of the original F&G Manual,the EAA reprint, and the orange manual (which is a repackaging of the textfrom the F&G manuals with some additional content).The Air Camper and the Sky Scout use the same airfoil and same basic rib, howeverthe brace aft of the rear spar was modified by the time of publication of theSky Scout plans in the 1933 Flying and Glider manual; it goes aft from thetop of the rear spar versus aft from the bottom as shown in the '32 drawing. Asnoted in the text:"I wish to call your attention to the brace back of the rear wing beam. This waschanged from the plans of the Air Camper, and I advise all of you who have notbuilt your wing ribs to build them this way."This change was included in the "Improved" Air Camper plans that are sold by thefamily, thusly the rib on page 5 reflects that modification.I've got a set of plans and one of the full size rib prints as well, I just haven'thad time yet to loft the front section and check it again the full-size print.If the full size print doesn't match up, then I would think either somethingwas inadvertently altered in their duplication process, or maybe there wasan error made when the full size print was drawn. I don't have it with me atwork, but I seem to recall that drawing being signed by Donald....I could bewrong....-RyanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/oran ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Hi John,The rib on page 30 in the orange manual the family sells is the rib from the PietenpolAir Camper articles in the 1932 Flying and Glider manual. I took a couplepics of the illustration from my respective copies of the original F&G Manual,the EAA reprint, and the orange manual (which is a repackaging of the textfrom the F&G manuals with some additional content).The Air Camper and the Sky Scout use the same airfoil and same basic rib, howeverthe brace aft of the rear spar was modified by the time of publication of theSky Scout plans in the 1933 Flying and Glider manual; it goes aft from thetop of the rear spar versus aft from the bottom as shown in the '32 drawing. Asnoted in the text:"I wish to call your attention to the brace back of the rear wing beam. This waschanged from the plans of the Air Camper, and I advise all of you who have notbuilt your wing ribs to build them this way."This change was included in the "Improved" Air Camper plans that are sold by thefamily, thusly the rib on page 5 reflects that modification.I've got a set of plans and one of the full size rib prints as well, I just haven'thad time yet to loft the front section and check it again the full-size print.If the full size print doesn't match up, then I would think either somethingwas inadvertently altered in their duplication process, or maybe there wasan error made when the full size print was drawn. I don't have it with me atwork, but I seem to recall that drawing being signed by Donald....I could bewrong....-RyanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/oran ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Ryan I didn't get the orange manual when I ordered the plans. Does anyoneknow off-hand if there are still available separately?ThanksJack TextorWest Des Moines, IA-----Original Message-----
Ryan I didn't get the orange manual when I ordered the plans. Does anyoneknow off-hand if there are still available separately?ThanksJack TextorWest Des Moines, IA-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Jon,Glad to hear you enjoyed the College in Mexico MO. If you liked that one, tryBarnwell SC in November. Absolutely the nicest people host the event. Food andbeverages are plentiful and delicious. 100% of the registration fee coversthe food, beverages, etc. The airport added lots of lighting in the hangar -which the "tenants" remove their aircraft for us. Half the hangar is used forbuilding the other half set up with tables and chairs for breaks, meals, etc.This will be trip #5 for me in this location. My engine ran during my trip #2(2011 college #21)If any one has question feel free to email me off list rdewenter at woh.rr.comHoping to see Dan Glaze again this year. I know my friends John Francis, andChuck Campbell are planning on running a new engine! and friend Christopher pricewill be there wrenching. This should be quite an active event.--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Jon,Glad to hear you enjoyed the College in Mexico MO. If you liked that one, tryBarnwell SC in November. Absolutely the nicest people host the event. Food andbeverages are plentiful and delicious. 100% of the registration fee coversthe food, beverages, etc. The airport added lots of lighting in the hangar -which the "tenants" remove their aircraft for us. Half the hangar is used forbuilding the other half set up with tables and chairs for breaks, meals, etc.This will be trip #5 for me in this location. My engine ran during my trip #2(2011 college #21)If any one has question feel free to email me off list rdewenter at woh.rr.comHoping to see Dan Glaze again this year. I know my friends John Francis, andChuck Campbell are planning on running a new engine! and friend Christopher pricewill be there wrenching. This should be quite an active event.--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Oscar,Bummer! I have the tapered shaft but have never even tried to install the prop.Have the same engine on the Aeronca, but it has a metal prop and a spinner...neverhad the spinner off! Does the tapered shaft even require a crush plate?Sure glad you are back so you can keep us newbies on the straight and narrow! Guess I can't be just like you, my hero.Just upgraded to the new iOS 8 and it sure does a lot of things differently. Iteven tries to anticipate what I will say next! I sure better be careful; I henceforthabsolve myself of any responsibility for what I say!Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Sep 21, 2014, at 9:19 AM, taildrags wrote:> > > Ray; not everyone can sport the Continental faceplate on their prop... a goodpercentage of these engines have the tapered shaft hub rather than the flangedshaft. The nose of the tapered shaft protrudes out the front and while youcould bore a hole in the Continental faceplate to accommodate the nose of theshaft, the effect would be lost because most of the artwork would be gone too.> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 877#430877> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Oscar,Bummer! I have the tapered shaft but have never even tried to install the prop.Have the same engine on the Aeronca, but it has a metal prop and a spinner...neverhad the spinner off! Does the tapered shaft even require a crush plate?Sure glad you are back so you can keep us newbies on the straight and narrow! Guess I can't be just like you, my hero.Just upgraded to the new iOS 8 and it sure does a lot of things differently. Iteven tries to anticipate what I will say next! I sure better be careful; I henceforthabsolve myself of any responsibility for what I say!Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Sep 21, 2014, at 9:19 AM, taildrags wrote:> > > Ray; not everyone can sport the Continental faceplate on their prop... a goodpercentage of these engines have the tapered shaft hub rather than the flangedshaft. The nose of the tapered shaft protrudes out the front and while youcould bore a hole in the Continental faceplate to accommodate the nose of theshaft, the effect would be lost because most of the artwork would be gone too.> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 877#430877> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
Actually, there are a couple of other differences. The page 30 drawing has threespaces at 1 1/2", whereas the improved plans have one space at 1 1/8" and twospaces at 1 1/2". Also, the final space is 1 1/4" on the page 30 drawing,and 1 3/4" on the improved plans. The "improved" drawing dimensions actuallyadd up to 60 1/8".And, not to nit-pick, but the page 5 rib was drawn in 1934. 86 years later wouldbe the year 2020. we're not there yet. I got my full size rib drawing fromDon Pietenpol 10 years ago.I lofted my rib, using the dimensions on page 5, and it matches the full size drawingpretty well. There are none of the big differences you are experiencing,and there shouldn't be big differences between the two.However, I think the 1 1/2" vertical dimension at the leading edge is incorrect.I took a photo of the plans, and used a CAD program to scale the dimension.The 1 1/2" vertical dimension scales to about 1.15". I superimposed a lineat 1.5", and you can see that it sits too high. The actual leading edge shouldfall somewhere around 1 1/4" from the reference line. (see attachment) Bill C.John wrote:> Other than the rear brace, dimensions on page 30 match drawing page 5.> > All I know from the phone call is the full size rib came out 86 years after thepage 5 rib, and either is acceptable (they're different). When you plot andcompare to the full size, you'll see the same thing I saw.> > Generally speaking, page 5 rib forward nine inches is a little thicker, but thenslightly narrower until the trailing edge.> Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib
Actually, there are a couple of other differences. The page 30 drawing has threespaces at 1 1/2", whereas the improved plans have one space at 1 1/8" and twospaces at 1 1/2". Also, the final space is 1 1/4" on the page 30 drawing,and 1 3/4" on the improved plans. The "improved" drawing dimensions actuallyadd up to 60 1/8".And, not to nit-pick, but the page 5 rib was drawn in 1934. 86 years later wouldbe the year 2020. we're not there yet. I got my full size rib drawing fromDon Pietenpol 10 years ago.I lofted my rib, using the dimensions on page 5, and it matches the full size drawingpretty well. There are none of the big differences you are experiencing,and there shouldn't be big differences between the two.However, I think the 1 1/2" vertical dimension at the leading edge is incorrect.I took a photo of the plans, and used a CAD program to scale the dimension.The 1 1/2" vertical dimension scales to about 1.15". I superimposed a lineat 1.5", and you can see that it sits too high. The actual leading edge shouldfall somewhere around 1 1/4" from the reference line. (see attachment) Bill C.John wrote:> Other than the rear brace, dimensions on page 30 match drawing page 5.> > All I know from the phone call is the full size rib came out 86 years after thepage 5 rib, and either is acceptable (they're different). When you plot andcompare to the full size, you'll see the same thing I saw.> > Generally speaking, page 5 rib forward nine inches is a little thicker, but thenslightly narrower until the trailing edge.> Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drawing the rib