Original Posted By: "Charles N. Campbell"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder return springs
Pietenpol-List: Rudder return springs
Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder return springs
Original Posted By: "tools"
I'm contemplating this at present Douwe, would you have a pic please?Scotty--------Tamworth, AustraliaBuilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comFuslage now on its undercarriage! About to start wing spars...Corvair engine atRoy's Garage waiting to be modified.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder return springs
I'm contemplating this at present Douwe, would you have a pic please?Scotty--------Tamworth, AustraliaBuilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comFuslage now on its undercarriage! About to start wing spars...Corvair engine atRoy's Garage waiting to be modified.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder return springs
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Even folks with rudder bars should take notice as the front seat rudder pedalshave the same issue.I believe the spring should be in tension ALL the time. Ok to reduce to nearlyzero, but not quite... A spring not in tension has a much more likely chanceof becoming disconnected inadvertently, and simply getting in the way becominga snag hazard. The springs are there to control the pedals, not provide centering force or anything.By the way, a Standard J-1 has a rudder bar. I really like it. Didn't think Iwould the first time I sat in a Piet, but that changed even with only taxiing.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Even folks with rudder bars should take notice as the front seat rudder pedalshave the same issue.I believe the spring should be in tension ALL the time. Ok to reduce to nearlyzero, but not quite... A spring not in tension has a much more likely chanceof becoming disconnected inadvertently, and simply getting in the way becominga snag hazard. The springs are there to control the pedals, not provide centering force or anything.By the way, a Standard J-1 has a rudder bar. I really like it. Didn't think Iwould the first time I sat in a Piet, but that changed even with only taxiing.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Hey,There's not much to show. This is the only photo I can find that shows itat all. You can't see the clear tubing protecting the cables, but you cankind of see the climbing carbineer wrapped in tape.I agree with with the comments that most front "pit" should restraints arenot going to help after a certain G force. I do hope it would help in aground loop, upside down type situation which is the most common. I thinkgoing up to the upper wing attach points is probably the best. Just bolt afitting to each one with a hole and hook your harness up into it. The force of the occupant would be taken by the four swages, each of themare double-swaged. At least one on each side would have to "give" forthings to move forward. I hope I don't have to test it.My pilot shoulder harness also relys on cables/swages which anchor into thetail-post area.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Hey,There's not much to show. This is the only photo I can find that shows itat all. You can't see the clear tubing protecting the cables, but you cankind of see the climbing carbineer wrapped in tape.I agree with with the comments that most front "pit" should restraints arenot going to help after a certain G force. I do hope it would help in aground loop, upside down type situation which is the most common. I thinkgoing up to the upper wing attach points is probably the best. Just bolt afitting to each one with a hole and hook your harness up into it. The force of the occupant would be taken by the four swages, each of themare double-swaged. At least one on each side would have to "give" forthings to move forward. I hope I don't have to test it.My pilot shoulder harness also relys on cables/swages which anchor into thetail-post area.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Here is the way I did mine. I copied the idea from someone's plane I saw in Brodheadback in 1996. I cannot remember who's plane it was. Mine are installeda little high up. I think an inch or two lower would be ideal. Just an 1/8 in.cable attached to the rear cabanes. I used avaition Eye bolts through the cabanes.Very easy to do. This is the best pic I can find at the moment but youget the idea. Yes I would do it the same way again.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p101 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Here is the way I did mine. I copied the idea from someone's plane I saw in Brodheadback in 1996. I cannot remember who's plane it was. Mine are installeda little high up. I think an inch or two lower would be ideal. Just an 1/8 in.cable attached to the rear cabanes. I used avaition Eye bolts through the cabanes.Very easy to do. This is the best pic I can find at the moment but youget the idea. Yes I would do it the same way again.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p101 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Wow, Scott- lots of interesting things to see on your airplane! First of all,I'm surprised that there are no photos of your plane on Westcoastpiet, unlessI'm not looking in the right place. We've got to get on Chris Tracy to get himto upload some pictures! So it's obvious that you have the elevator controlcables routed externally like Dick Navratil's airplane, but the 'walking beam'on your airplane is down on the bottom longerons where Dick's is pretty muchat the midline of the tail. From the picture it appears that the upper elevatorcable has to make a very sharp angle over the leading edge of the horizontalstabilizer to get to the top of the elevator horn. Is that just the cameraangle fooling my eyes?Next question is, of course, what the black kickstand-looking thing is at the lowerport side of the fuselage. Some type of step for getting in and out of thecockpits?Then there is the vane-type airspeed indicator. Do you also have a conventionalASI? I don't see a pitot tube.Like I say, there are a lot of interesting things to see in that photo!--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Wow, Scott- lots of interesting things to see on your airplane! First of all,I'm surprised that there are no photos of your plane on Westcoastpiet, unlessI'm not looking in the right place. We've got to get on Chris Tracy to get himto upload some pictures! So it's obvious that you have the elevator controlcables routed externally like Dick Navratil's airplane, but the 'walking beam'on your airplane is down on the bottom longerons where Dick's is pretty muchat the midline of the tail. From the picture it appears that the upper elevatorcable has to make a very sharp angle over the leading edge of the horizontalstabilizer to get to the top of the elevator horn. Is that just the cameraangle fooling my eyes?Next question is, of course, what the black kickstand-looking thing is at the lowerport side of the fuselage. Some type of step for getting in and out of thecockpits?Then there is the vane-type airspeed indicator. Do you also have a conventionalASI? I don't see a pitot tube.Like I say, there are a lot of interesting things to see in that photo!--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
It does seem as though you're not looking in the right place, Oscar.To find photos of Scott Liefeld's plane, you should try looking at the photos underthe heading of "Scott Liefeld." http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Sco ... feld.htmAs for the routing of the upper elevator cable - take a look at the photos on WestcoastPiet, and you'll see that the cable doesn't make a sharp angle - in factit doesn't make any kind of deflection... it actually passes through the horizontalstabilizer. Now that's ... unusual.BCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
It does seem as though you're not looking in the right place, Oscar.To find photos of Scott Liefeld's plane, you should try looking at the photos underthe heading of "Scott Liefeld." http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Sco ... feld.htmAs for the routing of the upper elevator cable - take a look at the photos on WestcoastPiet, and you'll see that the cable doesn't make a sharp angle - in factit doesn't make any kind of deflection... it actually passes through the horizontalstabilizer. Now that's ... unusual.BCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: front harness attach point
Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder return springs
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder return springs
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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder return springs
Original Posted By: Jack
Chuck,On planes with the front pedals close to the firewall, where one would be temptedto use a short spring, the most common solution is to mount a 1" in diameterpulley at the firewall, and turn a 1/16" cable around 90 degrees around it connectingthe front rudder pedal to a long soft spring hanging down from the areawhere the top longeron meets the firewall. This way you are working with a6" soft spring that is always in tension, rather than a short 1" or 2" one thatwill go slack on full deflection and add a lot of undesirable tension on theother side. This layout is quite common, you can see pictures of it on the SPA/Pantherwebsite.There are more rudder bars out there than people notice. I have worked on somecommie stuff over the years, and both Migs and Antonov's use them. You don't seeit at a glance because they have pedals connected to the bar, but the workingmechanism is a rudder bar with a parallelogram connecting the pedals to keepthem straight. a mechanical solution on planes single braking systems biasedby pedal deflection. A lot of Soviet stuff this is done Pneumatically. On simple planes I like rudder bars, even our Stits Skycoupe test mule used them.the only issue is when they are too close to the floor and you are contactingthem with your instep or heel rather than the balls of your feet. Jennies usedrudder bars and the felt 'right' to many people trained in the 1920s. Youkids who started fly in the 1940s like those new fangled pedals.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Chuck,On planes with the front pedals close to the firewall, where one would be temptedto use a short spring, the most common solution is to mount a 1" in diameterpulley at the firewall, and turn a 1/16" cable around 90 degrees around it connectingthe front rudder pedal to a long soft spring hanging down from the areawhere the top longeron meets the firewall. This way you are working with a6" soft spring that is always in tension, rather than a short 1" or 2" one thatwill go slack on full deflection and add a lot of undesirable tension on theother side. This layout is quite common, you can see pictures of it on the SPA/Pantherwebsite.There are more rudder bars out there than people notice. I have worked on somecommie stuff over the years, and both Migs and Antonov's use them. You don't seeit at a glance because they have pedals connected to the bar, but the workingmechanism is a rudder bar with a parallelogram connecting the pedals to keepthem straight. a mechanical solution on planes single braking systems biasedby pedal deflection. A lot of Soviet stuff this is done Pneumatically. On simple planes I like rudder bars, even our Stits Skycoupe test mule used them.the only issue is when they are too close to the floor and you are contactingthem with your instep or heel rather than the balls of your feet. Jennies usedrudder bars and the felt 'right' to many people trained in the 1920s. Youkids who started fly in the 1940s like those new fangled pedals.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Progress in South Carolina
Original Posted By:> Goff Electric
Keith,Looks great. When are you going to stitch? Would like to come over and watch oreven hold a needle ;0)JackSent from my iPad> On Jan 19, 2015, at 10:03 PM, goffelectric(at)comcast.net wrote:> > Attached is a picture of one elevator covered on January 1st, still have to ribstitch and perimeter tape but we are moving forward. Ran my engine at corvaircollege in Barnwell. > > Keith goff> > ----- Forwarded Message -----
Keith,Looks great. When are you going to stitch? Would like to come over and watch oreven hold a needle ;0)JackSent from my iPad> On Jan 19, 2015, at 10:03 PM, goffelectric(at)comcast.net wrote:> > Attached is a picture of one elevator covered on January 1st, still have to ribstitch and perimeter tape but we are moving forward. Ran my engine at corvaircollege in Barnwell. > > Keith goff> > ----- Forwarded Message -----