Pietenpol-List: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
I do that as well,...blow up tires w/bicycle pump. I had a small Chinese air compressorfrom harbor freight, but it just wound up making a loud racket for 20minutes per tire...was lucky to make 12psi. I gave said compressor to a hangarneighbor...everyone's happy --------KLNCA65-8N2308CSlick 4330'sAN HardwareAirframe 755TTW72CK-42 SensenichStandard Factory GN-1Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: Scott Knowlton
Oscar,You mentioned that you have a hard time starting your engine when it is hot. Isit a case of it flooding easily? I have a sure fire way of correcting thisif it is your case. Maike Madrid would spend 1 or 2 hours trying to start hisAircamper and FlyBaby after fuel stops. I showed him my trick/method and heis on his way now every time without worry. Now on Dad's O-200, he had a bad Mag that we had to cool off the coil before itwould restart. If yours is flooded, use this simple 10 step procedure. 1. Tie down the tail2. Shut off fuel3. Shut off Mags4. Open throttle halfway or more. (Very important to do).5. Pull the prop through 12 blades in the forward direction. (forward directionis very important. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust valves. Some folkswhere taught to pull the prop through backwards. This is not good for threereasons. a. It pushes all the oil out of the oil pump. b. it pushes the rawfuel back into the intake manifold thus still creates a rich fuel system. c. Allthe fuel in the intake system becomes a fire hazard should it backfire throughthe intake side when trying to restart).6. Turn fuel back on.7. Set throttle for normal starting and idle position. (Very important so yourplane doesn't try flying away without you).8. Turn appropriate mags back on.9. Prop normally. (it will start on the first or second blade every time. 10. Untie plane and fly away with a big smile on your face. Now you can log more time in the air than on the ground. Keep them flying friends.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
A procedure that gave me good results on my champ with an A65 was to advance thethrottle off the idle stop when I shut down. The stromberg has an idle primingcircuit that primes when the blades are spinning down after shut down. Takingthe throttle off the idle circuit will prevent this priming action from happening.When I did this procedure the airplane would start on the first bladeafter a couple of blades with the mags off. This was even the case when the enginewas hot. I never had a flooded engine after adopting this procedure. Scott Knowlton > On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:49 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:> > > Oscar,> > You mentioned that you have a hard time starting your engine when it is hot.Is it a case of it flooding easily? I have a sure fire way of correcting thisif it is your case. Maike Madrid would spend 1 or 2 hours trying to start hisAircamper and FlyBaby after fuel stops. I showed him my trick/method and heis on his way now every time without worry. > > Now on Dad's O-200, he had a bad Mag that we had to cool off the coil beforeit would restart. > > If yours is flooded, use this simple 10 step procedure. > > 1. Tie down the tail> 2. Shut off fuel> 3. Shut off Mags> 4. Open throttle halfway or more. (Very important to do).> 5. Pull the prop through 12 blades in the forward direction. (forward directionis very important. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust valves. Some folkswhere taught to pull the prop through backwards. This is not good for threereasons. a. It pushes all the oil out of the oil pump. b. it pushes the rawfuel back into the intake manifold thus still creates a rich fuel system. c.All the fuel in the intake system becomes a fire hazard should it backfire throughthe intake side when trying to restart).> 6. Turn fuel back on.> 7. Set throttle for normal starting and idle position. (Very important so yourplane doesn't try flying away without you).> 8. Turn appropriate mags back on.> 9. Prop normally. (it will start on the first or second blade every time. > 10. Untie plane and fly away with a big smile on your face. > > Now you can log more time in the air than on the ground. > > Keep them flying friends.> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 795#459795> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Scott,Excellent point. That should prevent the need for everything above. Great input.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

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Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
I do what Scott said, as I turn off the ignition, advance the throttle to full,return to idle when it stops spinningSent from my iPhone> On Aug 23, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Scott Knowlton wrote:> > > A procedure that gave me good results on my champ with an A65 was to advancethe throttle off the idle stop when I shut down. The stromberg has an idle primingcircuit that primes when the blades are spinning down after shut down. Takingthe throttle off the idle circuit will prevent this priming action from happening.When I did this procedure the airplane would start on the first bladeafter a couple of blades with the mags off. This was even the case when theengine was hot. I never had a flooded engine after adopting this procedure.> > Scott Knowlton > >> On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:49 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:>> >> >> Oscar,>> >> You mentioned that you have a hard time starting your engine when it is hot.Is it a case of it flooding easily? I have a sure fire way of correcting thisif it is your case. Maike Madrid would spend 1 or 2 hours trying to starthis Aircamper and FlyBaby after fuel stops. I showed him my trick/method andhe is on his way now every time without worry. >> >> Now on Dad's O-200, he had a bad Mag that we had to cool off the coil beforeit would restart. >> >> If yours is flooded, use this simple 10 step procedure. >> >> 1. Tie down the tail>> 2. Shut off fuel>> 3. Shut off Mags>> 4. Open throttle halfway or more. (Very important to do).>> 5. Pull the prop through 12 blades in the forward direction. (forward directionis very important. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust valves. Somefolks where taught to pull the prop through backwards. This is not good for threereasons. a. It pushes all the oil out of the oil pump. b. it pushes the rawfuel back into the intake manifold thus still creates a rich fuel system. c.All the fuel in the intake system becomes a fire hazard should it backfire throughthe intake side when trying to restart).>> 6. Turn fuel back on.>> 7. Set throttle for normal starting and idle position. (Very important so yourplane doesn't try flying away without you).>> 8. Turn appropriate mags back on.>> 9. Prop normally. (it will start on the first or second blade every time. >> 10. Untie plane and fly away with a big smile on your face. >> >> Now you can log more time in the air than on the ground. >> >> Keep them flying friends.>> >> -------->> Scott Liefeld>> Flying N11MS since March 1972>> Steel Tube>> C-85-12>> Wire Wheels>> Brodhead in 1996>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 795#459795> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
On my J3 Cub, it was became very difficult to crank while hot. I tried allthe stuff like 12 blades with fuel off, etc, etc, etc. The bottom line isthat the coils in my mags were breaking down. I cured the problem with aSlick Mag Kit with new mags, wires and plugs. It now starts with one flip,cold or hot, it doesn't matter. I fly my Grandkids a lot, so it was worththe $$.BarryBig Piet NX973BP-----Original Message-----

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Original Posted By: Scott Knowlton
Barry,You just hit on why my dads was hard to start when hot. We fixed his long ago.I just wanted to share and get folks thinking about what they are experiencing.All good stuff. There should be no reason to have a hard starting engineas long as everything is in proper working order. We just need to figure outwhat we are dealing with to prevent the hard starts.Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Further to Scott Liefeld's point about making sure everything is working on thelittle A65 I attended the Stromberg forum at Oshkosh this year. One other factorthat can lead to poor hot starting and flooding is a leaky primer. We onlywant our primer to work when we want to prime. If it leaks past the plunge bulbwe are unwittingly supplying raw fuel downstream of the carb which will bothflood the engine and create potential fire hazard. There are lots of YouTubevideos showing how to test and rebuild a Lufkin or other primer. The easiesttest is to pull your primer line and see if it drops when the primer is in andlocked. Just another thought. All great points today!!!! Scott K > On Aug 23, 2016, at 5:29 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote:> > > Barry,> > You just hit on why my dads was hard to start when hot. We fixed his long ago.I just wanted to share and get folks thinking about what they are experiencing.All good stuff. There should be no reason to have a hard starting engineas long as everything is in proper working order. We just need to figure outwhat we are dealing with to prevent the hard starts.> > Cheers,> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 809#459809> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hard Starting Cont. EnginesMy buddie's 1947 Aeronca Champ with 65HP continental starter was gettingworn out, and would end up panting and laying in the shade of the wingbefore the engine would fire. So he bought brand new Slick mags andharnesses (they come as a set.) We had a lot of airport bum help puttingthem on and setting the timeing. They would not fire one lick. Heannounced that he was tired and we were done for the day and closed upshop. When all the advisors left, he reopened the doors and we pulled outthe instructions, took the mags off and started from scratch. Sure enough,they fired first blade! It started so easy I jumped back.On my Piet it has newly overhauled mags but they were just stuck on theengine and not really installed. So I have that to look forward to.Blue Skies,Steve D.On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Barry Davis wrote:>> On my J3 Cub, it was became very difficult to crank while hot. I tried all> the stuff like 12 blades with fuel off, etc, etc, etc. The bottom line is> that the coils in my mags were breaking down. I cured the problem with a> Slick Mag Kit with new mags, wires and plugs. It now starts with one flip,> cold or hot, it doesn't matter. I fly my Grandkids a lot, so it was worth> the $$.> Barry> Big Piet NX973BP>> -----Original Message-----

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Original Posted By: "taildrags"
I couldn't resist taxiing my Jeep powered pietenpol today though it was more forenjoyment than experimentation. I still have many small items to tidy up beforeI call my /Dar to check it out. I hope to fly it very soon. I wish I could add a photo but I simply can't, I am not smart enough to navigatethe email list. Someone suggested I use my email to add photos, Whatthe hell is that ? All I managed to do was get my email blown open with everylist here. I cant find away to un-do that, so if anyone knows to remove meplease be my guest.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
OK, so first let's take care of the easy items. (1) I do not have a primer onmy engine, don't need one, and if ya ain't got one, it can't leak. (2) the enginegot brand-new Slick mags and harnesses when it was built back up, and ofcourse new plugs, and everything is perfectly timed and gapped. It's not spark.Now to possible "other stuff" besides operator error.As far as advancing the throttle as the engine is spinning to a stop on dead mags,I've tried that and found it made matters worse because the engine just sucksmore raw fuel into the chambers that way and it's all sitting there when Itry the next start. I'll try it that way again next time I shut down at thehangar after a flight, but it's never worked for me in the past.As far as there not being a prime circuit open unless the throttle is partiallycracked, I recognize most of the intricacies of the Stromberg carb and I am awarethat there are two small ports in the carb throat, one on each side of thethrottle plate when it is closed (throttle full aft to idle). This is by design,and the outer one pulls fuel till the throttle plate begins to open andthere is enough impulse through the throat to pull fuel through the other, andthose two provide fuel until there is enough impulse through the venturi forthe engine to pull fuel through the main jet. All of this is designed to providethe proper air-fuel mixture from idle to WOT, or so I'm given to understandfrom all the literature. Some Strombergs will cause an engine stumble or hesitationat some point between coming off of idle and getting to WOT on takeoff,but that's a whole 'nother issue apart from starting.I think my problem is simply technique, and the technique that most interests meis Scott's 10-step narrative. The only new twist is the 12 blades in the forwarddirection. Like most other hand-proppers, I've always been told to pullthe prop through *backwards* with the fuel shut off and throttle wide open, andthat helps but there is still plenty of raw fuel in my air box so what I'vebeen doing is leaving the fuel shut off after pulling it through a dozen blades,then just sitting under the wing for 5-7 minutes to let excess fuel evaporate,then making the mags hot with the throttle back to idle and propping it.That worked for me last time and I still had time after the engine caught tonudge the throttle and turn the fuel back on as the engine came to life. I willtry Scott's 10-Step "Prop Starters Anonymous" drying-out procedure ;o)--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Good morning Oscar,If your engine truly is flooded (which Im sure it is) this will be a big Ah Hamoment. It has never failed me. One other point that hasn't been brought up and I will because someone else broughtup the mags. An A65 if put together proper only has one impulse coupling. It should be on theleft mag. You should only be starting it on the left mag. If you are experiencingthe prop kicking back and sneezing (if you will, the engine, not you)I would guess that you are trying to start it with both mags on. I have howeverseen engines put together with no impulse couplings or with two couplings.On experimental airplanes you never know what someone may have done. A series engine should only have one impulse coupling. (it should be on the leftmag).C series engines should have two couplings.O-200 engines should have two couplings. The impulse couplings will retard the timing and fire the plugs late to preventkick back when trying to start.Some old radials never had impulse couplings. They an be a real bugger to start.You need to wear your man shoes when starting these.Oh well, enough for this mornings chat. Cheers all,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: "Jack Philips"
Scott: oh, no! You're sending me back to my books to read up on Continental ignitionsystems! Upper plugs, lower plugs, gapping, timing... I know my mags andplugs are set up just the way they're supposed to be but I did all of thatwork more than a couple of nights ago so I've forgotten it all ;o) Honestly,I *always* prop start it with the mags on Both, and I believe both of my Slickshave impulse couplings. However, this is a good time to learn something (andto teach something) about magneto ignitions, so I'm going to study up and reportback. Meanwhile, we've got a couple of wildland fires burning around usso I get to watch a lot of round engines fly overhead as the tankers make theircircuits to and from the fires. But I doubt that I could prop-start a P&W DoubleWasp on a Convair 340, with or without impulse couplings ;o)--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Oscar, my A65 has Slick Mags, both with Impulse couplings. I start minewith the ignition switch set to BOTH.I have no problem with hot starts, as long as I give a really healthy swingto the prop (I can usually swing it hard enough to get it through twocylinders). If it doesn't start on the first pull when hot, I'm usually infor following the sequence Scott laid out.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----

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Original Posted By:

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Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Very good,I have seen dual impulse couplings on the A series like you guys have. Which isplenty fine on Experimental aircraft. On certified, It may not be legal. Depends on what the type certificate says. With the dual impulses it helps a lotduring starting. Anyway, The fires have been awful all over the western states. We have had our share aroundhere. They are doing taxiway work at our airport and the runway has beenshortened from 7201' to 3500' keeping our firefighting aircraft off the field.Note: for me, it means that the runway is still 150' long and only 3500' widenow. Makes it tough in big crosswinds. Good luck Oscar. I think the starting procedures will cure you headache. Enough for now,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: posting pictures

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Original Posted By: shad bell
I'll try adding a pic. It won't add for me either. Strange.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:33:53 +0000 (UTC)

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Original Posted By: "Speedbrake"
OK, so this is from the A&P who overhauled my A75:"Continentals, if equipped with Impulse Couplers, almost always have them on bothmags. If you buy Slick magneto kit for an A series engine, the kit will comewith two impulse coupled mags. If one wanted to install their mags piecemeal,you could mount mags with no impulse, the impulse on either the left or rightmags, or on both. Lycoming engines come with the impulse on the left mag only. The impulse in themags for a Lycoming engine takes up a bit of space, so Lycoming adds a spaceronto the left magneto mount to accommodate the installation of an impulse coupling.A spacer could also be added to the right side if one so desired, butwould also require longer studs for mounting the second impulse coupled magneto.I've never seen anyone add a second impulse coupled mag onto a Lycoming, but onboth A and C series Continentals, dual impulse coupled magnetos is the way theyare typically configured. "--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: "Jack Philips"
A little more to chew on...In the Maint. and Overhaul Man. for A-65 and-75, page 47:Item 35-2 Magneto, Eiseman R.H AM-4 (without impulse) 35-4 Magneto, Eiseman L.H. AM-4 (with impulse)This could be nothing more than calling out how the mags are depicted and not indicativeto how they should be configured.--------Mike PerezRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
None that I=99ve noticed.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia

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Original Posted By: shad bell

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Original Posted By: Louie Bakrevski
So,There are many different configurations of magnetos. If someone without a propermagneto O/H guide puts together parts from several different cores to buildup one that works, you could have issues. I overhauled my mags last year. Mymags had the proper dataplates on them for the engine. But after disassembly,I discovered that I had many of the wrong parts inside them. I did manageto rebuild them in the proper configuration to match the dataplate and configurationfor my engine. One of the biggest issues was that I had the incorrectrotors in each of the mags. They come in different lengths and mine were notcorrect. Just this one item may cause a fit interference issue whether the geargoes in too far or not enough. So what I'm getting at is, follow the O/H manuals for the engine and accessoriesfor you engine. The little Stromburg carburetors have a bunch of differentconfigurations as well for each engine size. My engine ran great for a very long time with the mags put together incorrectly.It wasn't until I decided to overhaul them that I even knew they were not right.After the overhaul I gained 300 RPM on climb out. Now I am under proppedbut that is another story.In conclusion, If you are having any issues at all with engine performance, whetherstarting, idling, full power, stumbling, It's worth getting the book outand investigating your component part numbers and proper configuration. It justamazes me how much I learn every time I work on anything airplane related orotherwise. I love learning from other peoples experiences. I guess that's why I enjoy thisforum so much. Just a note here. I am not an A&P nor do I pretend to be. I Have been a mechanicfor most of my life and design fire apparatus for a living for the secondlargest Fire Department in the country. I have also been an EAA tech counselorfor more than twenty years. I helped my dad build my Piet and my daughter helpedme rebuild it back in the year 2000. What we do here is enjoy the opportunities this great country affords us. We justhappen to like building and flying our own airplanes. Lets do it as safeas we can. Stuff to think about. --------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

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Original Posted By: Ray Krause
OscarLet's clarified that -8 cases only came with Bendix lunch box mags, eisman mags,case mags (they belong on orange ) tractors , s-200 or s-20 mags. All of thismags ONLY have impulse coupling on left side. Right side non impulse mag. Slickmags have a impulse on BOTH mags.All of -8 mags and -9 mags are right turning mags. Lunch box mags do NOT have aimpulse coupling on both mags, so you are starting at around 30 degrees of BTC.You have to swing the prop with authority wood props could swing back. EismanBendix S-20 or 200 only have in pulse on left mag . Should started on leftmag only. Dash 12 cases C-75 ,C-85 C-90 could usually will have impulse couplingon both sides. If you have impulse coupling on both sides should be startedon both mags. Now if you have push to start Bendix switch you have to make shureit's set up wright . There is jumper , needs to be in right position. Ifyou need more information you have to entice me wit few MGD. ( mighty good diner).Louie.Ps a have a ton of small continental pars and mags.Sent from my iPad> On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:20 AM, taildrags wrote:> > > OK, so this is from the A&P who overhauled my A75:> > "Continentals, if equipped with Impulse Couplers, almost always have them onboth mags. If you buy Slick magneto kit for an A series engine, the kit willcome with two impulse coupled mags. If one wanted to install their mags piecemeal,you could mount mags with no impulse, the impulse on either the left orright mags, or on both. > > Lycoming engines come with the impulse on the left mag only. The impulse inthe mags for a Lycoming engine takes up a bit of space, so Lycoming adds a spaceronto the left magneto mount to accommodate the installation of an impulsecoupling. A spacer could also be added to the right side if one so desired, butwould also require longer studs for mounting the second impulse coupled magneto.> > I've never seen anyone add a second impulse coupled mag onto a Lycoming, buton both A and C series Continentals, dual impulse coupled magnetos is the waythey are typically configured. "> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 890#459890> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Louie,So how do you check the spark on Eismann A-4 mags to make sure they are runningproperly? Does anyone overhaul them?Thanks,Ray Krause A-65-8, Eismann mags, impulse on the left.Sent from my iPad> On Aug 25, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Louie Bakrevski wrote:> > > Oscar> Let's clarified that -8 cases only came with Bendix lunch box mags, eisman mags,case mags (they belong on orange ) tractors , s-200 or s-20 mags. All of thismags ONLY have impulse coupling on left side. Right side non impulse mag.Slick mags have a impulse on BOTH mags.> All of -8 mags and -9 mags are right turning mags. Lunch box mags do NOT havea impulse coupling on both mags, so you are starting at around 30 degrees ofBTC. You have to swing the prop with authority wood props could swing back. EismanBendix S-20 or 200 only have in pulse on left mag . Should started on leftmag only. Dash 12 cases C-75 ,C-85 C-90 could usually will have impulse couplingon both sides. If you have impulse coupling on both sides should be startedon both mags. Now if you have push to start Bendix switch you have to makeshure it's set up wright . There is jumper , needs to be in right position. Ifyou need more information you have to entice me wit few MGD. ( mighty good diner).Louie.> Ps a have a ton of small continental pars and mags.> > Sent from my iPad> >> On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:20 AM, taildrags wrote:>> >> >> OK, so this is from the A&P who overhauled my A75:>> >> "Continentals, if equipped with Impulse Couplers, almost always have them onboth mags. If you buy Slick magneto kit for an A series engine, the kit willcome with two impulse coupled mags. If one wanted to install their mags piecemeal,you could mount mags with no impulse, the impulse on either the left orright mags, or on both. >> >> Lycoming engines come with the impulse on the left mag only. The impulse inthe mags for a Lycoming engine takes up a bit of space, so Lycoming adds a spaceronto the left magneto mount to accommodate the installation of an impulsecoupling. A spacer could also be added to the right side if one so desired,but would also require longer studs for mounting the second impulse coupled magneto.>> >> I've never seen anyone add a second impulse coupled mag onto a Lycoming, buton both A and C series Continentals, dual impulse coupled magnetos is the waythey are typically configured. ">> >> -------->> Oscar Zuniga>> Medford, OR>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout">> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 890#459890>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: Semih Oksay
Louie: now you're singing my song! The engine that was originally on my airplanewas a taper-shaft A65-8 and it had a Bendix-Scintilla lunch box on the starboardside and a Bendix S-series mag with impulse on the port side. This allmakes sense with what you suggest about starting that engine setup on the left(impulse) side only, since hand-propping doesn't really spin the engine fastenough where the 30* BTC spark on the non-impulse lunchbox mag would get therein time to ignite the fully-compressed air-fuel mixture at TDC. It can, in fact,ignite the mixture early if the prop isn't spun briskly... resulting in kick-back,exactly as you mention.Did I mention that as a mechanical and electrical engineer, I *love* electromechanicalmachines??!! This is all good stuff...;o)--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

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Original Posted By: "oldbird"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. EnginesPlease forgive my ignorance. Is this the "Bendix luch box"=8B?SemihOn Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 6:12 AM, Ray Krause wrote:> raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>>> Louie,>> So how do you check the spark on Eismann A-4 mags to make sure they are> running properly? Does anyone overhaul them?>> Thanks,>> Ray Krause> A-65-8, Eismann mags, impulse on the left.>> Sent from my iPad>> > On Aug 25, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Louie Bakrevski > wrote:> >> lupchob(at)hotmail.com>> >> > Oscar> > Let's clarified that -8 cases only came with Bendix lunch box mags,> eisman mags, case mags (they belong on orange ) tractors , s-200 or s-20> mags. All of this mags ONLY have impulse coupling on left side. Right side> non impulse mag. Slick mags have a impulse on BOTH mags.> > All of -8 mags and -9 mags are right turning mags. Lunch box mags do NOT> have a impulse coupling on both mags, so you are starting at around 30> degrees of BTC. You have to swing the prop with authority wood props could> swing back. Eisman Bendix S-20 or 200 only have in pulse on left mag .> Should started on left mag only. Dash 12 cases C-75 ,C-85 C-90 could> usually will have impulse coupling on both sides. If you have impulse> coupling on both sides should be started on both mags. Now if you have push> to start Bendix switch you have to make shure it's set up wright . There is> jumper , needs to be in right position. If you need more information you> have to entice me wit few MGD. ( mighty good diner). Louie.> > Ps a have a ton of small continental pars and mags.> >> > Sent from my iPad> >> >> On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:20 AM, taildrags wrote:> >>> taildrags(at)hotmail.com>> >>> >> OK, so this is from the A&P who overhauled my A75:> >>> >> "Continentals, if equipped with Impulse Couplers, almost always have> them on both mags. If you buy Slick magneto kit for an A series engine,> the kit will come with two impulse coupled mags. If one wanted to install> their mags piecemeal, you could mount mags with no impulse, the impulse on> either the left or right mags, or on both.> >>> >> Lycoming engines come with the impulse on the left mag only. The> impulse in the mags for a Lycoming engine takes up a bit of space, so> Lycoming adds a spacer onto the left magneto mount to accommodate the> installation of an impulse coupling. A spacer could also be added to the> right side if one so desired, but would also require longer studs for> mounting the second impulse coupled magneto.> >>> >> I've never seen anyone add a second impulse coupled mag onto a> Lycoming, but on both A and C series Continentals, dual impulse coupled> magnetos is the way they are typically configured. "> >>> >> --------> >> Oscar Zuniga> >> Medford, OR> >> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> >> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Read this topic online here:> >>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 890#459890> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>=======================================================>>-- Semih Oksay________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: "oldbird"
Please forgive my ignorance. Is this the "Bendix lunch box"?SemihRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Please forgive my ignorance. Is this the "Bendix luch box"?I was trying to attach photo but I couldn't. It is larger, ignition wires comingfrom the top, z-wire from the back. Heavier.SemihRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 10:38:34 +0000 (UTC)

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Why didn=99t you just buy new Slicks and save yourself about 8 lbs? I had Eismanns on my Cub years ago. They are VERY heavyJack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia

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Original Posted By: shad bell

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Original Posted By: Michael Perez

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Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
My AM-4's came off my Aeronca and they were supposedly overhauled just before I purchased the Aeronca. The AM-4 s worked fine on the Aeronca, but too much static to use a hand-held radio. I put new Slicks on the Aeronca. Now I can't get the mags to fire on the Piet. Most likely it's a hurl problem, but I wanted to check the spark strength. How can I do that?I do have the manuals for both the engine and the mags. Any help? Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Aug 26, 2016, at 5:46 AM, Jack Philips wrote:> > Why didn=99t you just buy new Slicks and save yourself about 8 lbs? I had Eismanns on my Cub years ago. They are VERY heavy> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>

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Original Posted By: shad bell

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Original Posted By:

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Original Posted By: shad bell

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-pietenpol-list-serve
RayMy two cents worth. Most small mags like AM-4, slicks and Bendix S-20 And- 200. Need blast tubes. Eisemann AM-4 are small mags and do not get rid of heat easily. Heat damages coils and that makes them hard to start. I strongly suggest when using Small magnetos to use blast tubes. If you see any newer production engines you will see b last tubes. Old engine that used Bendix SF4R-8 do not have blast tubes. Those big Lunch box mags because of their size and internal fan got rid of heat fairly effective. I have argued the need for blast tube with Slick representative few times and they no the problem. I usually put suspected mag on my mag tester and heated it up. see if spark gets week. LouiePS when in doubt change coil. Hard starting when hot is usually a bad coil. Also holding your mouth just right helps.________________________________

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Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-pietenpol-list-serve
I have been using Eisemann trouble free for many years. Last year a broke impulse spring. But that can happen with any mag. I think Slick kit with plugs and wires are around 3500.00 plus. That byes a lot of fuel. But a have a about 10 or 20+ Eisamann mags. Forgot to say that I'm AP IA. With 3 hangers full junk ,I meant treasures. Only one AD on AM-4 coilsand no ad on lunch box SF4 mags. But I'm old school Louie________________________________

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Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com On Aug 26, 2016, at 12:27 PM, Louie Bakrevski wrote:> > I have been using Eisemann trouble free for many years. Last year a broke impulse spring. But that can happen with any mag. I think Slick kit with plugs and wires are around 3500.00 plus. That byes a lot of fuel. But a have a about 10 or 20+ Eisamann mags. Forgot to say that I'm AP IA. With 3 hangers full junk ,I meant treasures. Only one AD on AM-4 coils> > and no ad on lunch box SF4 mags. But I'm old school Louie> >

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Original Posted By: shad bell

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Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Sent from my iPad> On Sep 9, 2016, at 3:02 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:> > *> > =================================================> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive> =================================================> > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version:> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestv ... ml&Chapter 16-09-08&Archive=Pietenpol> > Text Version:> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestv ... xt&Chapter 16-09-08&Archive=Pietenpol> > > ===============================================> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive> ===============================================> > > ----------------------------------------------------------> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive> ---> Total Messages Posted Thu 09/08/16: 0> ----------------------------------------------------------> > > Today's Message Index:> ----------------------> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Scott Liefeld is my new best friend!!! Flooded the engine and decided to try themethod Scott described, although I didn't hold out much hope that it wouldwork. Pulled it through the prescribed TWELVE blades in the forward direction(twelve is a lot of blades!), made the mags hot, and voila-! She fired on thefirst pull, as advertised! Thank you, Scott.Put 1.6 in the logbook after a very enjoyable flight. My first in a LONG time,actually, and the day was perfect for Pietenpoling.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

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Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Was that 12 blades with the throttle wide open? That many blades would not beso bad if your engine was worn out, like most old Piet engines! Fly the damnthing more!Thanks, I'm getting old,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Sep 10, 2016, at 5:11 PM, taildrags wrote:> > > Scott Liefeld is my new best friend!!! Flooded the engine and decided to trythe method Scott described, although I didn't hold out much hope that it wouldwork. Pulled it through the prescribed TWELVE blades in the forward direction(twelve is a lot of blades!), made the mags hot, and voila-! She fired onthe first pull, as advertised! Thank you, Scott.> > Put 1.6 in the logbook after a very enjoyable flight. My first in a LONG time,actually, and the day was perfect for Pietenpoling.> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 396#460396> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines

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Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Ray: yes, that was with the throttle wide open, but pulling the prop through toclear excess fuel doesn't mean throwing yourself into it... just pulling it through.And my A75 is still quite tight... only about 160 hours on the tach sincethe engine was converted to an A75 and rebuilt back to zero time.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power, 72x36 Culver propRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

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Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Oscar,I looked it up: 12 blades forward with the throttle open, not necessarily WOT,fuel off, mags off. Start with throttle in normal low RPM range....a little open.Thanks,RaySent from my iPad> On Sep 10, 2016, at 7:28 PM, Ray Krause wrote:> > > Was that 12 blades with the throttle wide open? That many blades would not beso bad if your engine was worn out, like most old Piet engines! Fly the damnthing more!> > Thanks, I'm getting old,> > Ray Krause> > Sent from my iPad> >> On Sep 10, 2016, at 5:11 PM, taildrags wrote:>> >> >> Scott Liefeld is my new best friend!!! Flooded the engine and decided to trythe method Scott described, although I didn't hold out much hope that it wouldwork. Pulled it through the prescribed TWELVE blades in the forward direction(twelve is a lot of blades!), made the mags hot, and voila-! She fired onthe first pull, as advertised! Thank you, Scott.>> >> Put 1.6 in the logbook after a very enjoyable flight. My first in a LONG time,actually, and the day was perfect for Pietenpoling.>> >> -------->> Oscar Zuniga>> Medford, OR>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout">> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 396#460396>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

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Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
I like the wood gear on the Piet. It IS plenty strong, no worries there.On the practical side, wood gear is somewhat easier in that you can't misalignit, making for a poor ground handling plane.No welding required at all if that's a concern.On the other hand, the small wide aircraft tires are easier landing than the tallnarrow ones IF the gear is aligned properly.So what it comes down to is which are you more comfortable making, and which looksbest to you. ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines